Guild Wars 2

Is it as terrible as everyone feared/wonderful as we hoped?

it isnt instant. but prior to the stab nerf if someone w/ stab walked over the puddles, you could see up to about 5 IMMUNE pop up on you screen at the same time… every second. and that hasnt changed.

well it does a pretty good job of burning through stacks LOL

Slick Shoes + Shild Block + Rune of Nightmare or Rune of Sunless

Yeah, it DEFINITELY needs a nerf now. LOL

working as intended

stability was FAR TO OP and made a lot of CC redundant

now finally ppl will be afraid of CC and wont just go LOL ME IMMUNE ROAR

krixis.9538:

working as intended

stability was FAR TO OP and made a lot of CC redundant

now finally ppl will be afraid of CC and wont just go LOL ME IMMUNE ROAR

+1

Haralin.1473:

Slick Shoes + Shild Block + Rune of Nightmare or Rune of Sunless

+ bomb with kit Refinement. Except the runes not the worst idea… Hmm…

Oh god, I have to try it out in pvp!

Wow.. Slick Shoes was strong before, but now it’s just stupid. Engi top class for life

it is no worse then ring of warding, Spectral Wall, SoA, Unsteady ground, line of warding, static shield, Static field, or basilisk venom sharing.

coglin.1867:

it is no worse then ring of warding, Spectral Wall, SoA, Unsteady ground, line of warding, static shield, Static field, or basilisk venom sharing.

its about 5-10x worse than those, because thats about how many of any of those skills you need to stack to achieve the same stripping effect that slick shoes currently presents

insanemaniac.2456:

coglin.1867:

it is no worse then ring of warding, Spectral Wall, SoA, Unsteady ground, line of warding, static shield, Static field, or basilisk venom sharing.

its about 5-10x worse than those, because thats about how many of any of those skills you need to stack to achieve the same stripping effect that slick shoes currently presents

Mind breaking that down and support it with an explanation? Otherwise, it kind of just comes off as any other poster baselessly claiming their opinion as fact. We already have enough of those.

If you’d use slick shoes recently, you’d know that since slick shoes applies multiple slick fields, anyone dumb enough to walk into a slick field will have a stack of stability ripped per field, and since you drop a crap load of them, you can strip a bunch of stab stacks in a short period of time.

Imagine 20 really tiny guardian rings of warding all in a dirty little line. That’s a lot of stab stacks that get ripped. Then imagine some idiot with only 5 stacks of stab trying to get through that, he’ll lose most, if not all his stacks, instantly.

kangaroosteak.6201:

Imagine 20 really tiny guardian rings of warding all in a dirty little line. That’s a lot of stab stacks that get ripped. Then imagine some idiot with only 5 stacks of stab trying to get through that, he’ll lose most, if not all his stacks, instantly.

pretty much this except (and im not too sure on this) each one may be able to hit multiple times as you walk across it, but its really hard to tell because theyre really close together, stab doesnt stack all that high, and they disappear quickly. im sorta leaning towards this not happening because of how overcharged shot interacts with it and is a makeshift escape from a circle of puddles, but it could just as well be a time based thing and overcharged shot pushes you out in too short a time frame.

like line and ring of warding are just tripwires. static is a tripwire. fear wall is a tripwire. if you cross them youre across. -1 stack. if you cross again, -1 stack again. these are puddles, not tripwires. you can get tripped standing anywhere in them and the only thing you need to do is move.

sharing basi venom can almost come close. but its single target and thieves are inherently squishy even built tanky and having enough thieves in your zerg to have significant stab removal means youll have pretty much nothing else besides a bunch of condi thieves and well condis just arent viable in zerg play, its for gank/situational at best. theres too many trooper rune shout guards and wars.

If you think Slick shoes has any similar equivalent at the moment, you have NEVER used it. Or you just choose to be blind.

funny how before the change slick shoes was a joke.

suddenly now its a huge threat to melee it needs a nerf ???

its a CC its designed to be a high threat attack that catchs you offgaurd. (pun intended) the old pvp meta with old stab needs to be reworked into a new meta for the new stab.

in time once ppl learn new meta you will have found ways to counter this.

engineer and our skills are not the issue here.

the issue here is the playerbase and lack of forward thinking on how to counter things that are not actually a huge threat to you in a pvp situation.

this stab nerf was a very much needed change. no more immunity to a large amount of skills in the game. and now engies can rip stab of targets

i dont think anyone is calling for a nerf for it yet from a wvw standpoint. the pvp community cries about slick shoes a bit, because trapping an opponent without a blink is pretty easy. and apparently a 24-27 sec (30 base) cd stunbreak with a reset is too good.

its too early for wvw to cry for nerfs. engis arent even meta in zergs yet.

doesnt slick shoes have an proc cd of 0.5 or 1 sec? o.O does it instand burn all stacks?!

insanemaniac.2456:

it isnt instant. but prior to the stab nerf if someone w/ stab walked over the puddles, you could see up to about 5 IMMUNE pop up on you screen at the same time… every second. and that hasnt changed.

Okay, I think that answers my question right there 0_o

krixis.9538:

funny how before the change slick shoes was a joke.

suddenly now its a huge threat to melee it needs a nerf ???

its a CC its designed to be a high threat attack that catchs you offgaurd. (pun intended) the old pvp meta with old stab needs to be reworked into a new meta for the new stab.

in time once ppl learn new meta you will have found ways to counter this.

engineer and our skills are not the issue here.

the issue here is the playerbase and lack of forward thinking on how to counter things that are not actually a huge threat to you in a pvp situation.

this stab nerf was a very much needed change. no more immunity to a large amount of skills in the game. and now engies can rip stab of targets

The thing is its NOT counter-able ON POINT, which is the problem. You have no way to counter it at all.

I think its fair. As a class with pretty much no usable stability in almost all builds and definitely no long lasting usable stability, Engi has strong ways to counter it now. Especially since their burst is typically reliant on grenades, CC was usually necessary to land the burst. Not to mention most builds pretty much have 2 kits at least as a baseline, so think of Slick Shoes as being good enough if it can bring something to the fight equal to another kit. If it isn’t as good as or better than say Elixir Gun, then there’s little to get worried about.

Besides, plenty of classes run blinks/teleports that effectively counter slick shoes AND probably make the engi waste their burst. Necros, Thief, Mesmers, Eles and even guardians to some extent(assuming you teleport after the puddles stop forming). It still requires melee range to be effective which typically isn’t the best range for the engi to stay at anyway.

I think its fair. As a class with pretty much no usable stability in almost all builds and definitely no long lasting usable stability,

/lol

gebrechen.5643:

I think its fair. As a class with pretty much no usable stability in almost all builds and definitely no long lasting usable stability,

/lol

Sarcasm over the internet isn’t the best idea, so I’m unsure of your meaning. If it is indeed sarcasm, I’d love to hear about how to squeeze stability into a 3-kit condi build or a celestial rifle build. It makes sense that engis should have a good way to strip stability since they lack it themselves and are very reliant on CC for bursts.

insanemaniac.2456:

i dont think anyone is calling for a nerf for it yet from a wvw standpoint. the pvp community cries about slick shoes a bit, because trapping an opponent without a blink is pretty easy. and apparently a 24-27 sec (30 base) cd stunbreak with a reset is too good.

its too early for wvw to cry for nerfs. engis arent even meta in zergs yet.

I don’t wvw that often but given the “pirate ship” meta that I’ve heard of has less stability, wouldn’t a few “torpedos” like
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqOlUUpkrdex+qRcMmR2xKhM6pFd2DEAA-TVhRABGq+DA7PYiSQC1DQpyPxAUE-w
work wonders at chain CCing an entire zerg. Just slick shoes then elixir S to charge through them. I went with full nomads + all the dmg/condition reducers for “uber tank” so it could survive an initial charge before getting close enough to slick-s a zerg. PVT + some retal could probably help a bit for the offense but whatever.

Unlike the other CC walls at choke points, this would bring the cc to the enemy zerg. Anyone try this sort of thing after stability patch?

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

insanemaniac.2456:

i dont think anyone is calling for a nerf for it yet from a wvw standpoint. the pvp community cries about slick shoes a bit, because trapping an opponent without a blink is pretty easy. and apparently a 24-27 sec (30 base) cd stunbreak with a reset is too good.

its too early for wvw to cry for nerfs. engis arent even meta in zergs yet.

I don’t wvw that often but given the “pirate ship” meta that I’ve heard of has less stability, wouldn’t a few “torpedos” like
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqOlUUpkrdex+qRcMmR2xKhM6pFd2DEAA-TVhRABGq+DA7PYiSQC1DQpyPxAUE-w
work wonders at chain CCing an entire zerg. Just slick shoes then elixir S to charge through them. I went with full nomads + all the dmg/condition reducers for “uber tank” so it could survive an initial charge before getting close enough to slick-s a zerg. PVT + some retal could probably help a bit for the offense but whatever.

Unlike the other CC walls at choke points, this would bring the cc to the enemy zerg. Anyone try this sort of thing after stability patch?

Too visible, smart/aware zergs will try to evade anyone they see coming with oil patches following them that they can’t dps, and 4 secs isn’t enough time to get in the middle before Elixir S wears off and they get vaporized.

Now, if you get a Mesmer to drop a portal, self invis, blink over to their side, drop the second half, and then have several of these engis jump through and spread out with the slick shoes going, that might be a good recipe to bring chaos to the enemy zerg.

I did a bit of practise in EotM with this, swap out toolkit for bombkit, and you can blast big ol bomb, heal turret and magnetic inversion, plus the Elixir S utility for 9-10s of stealth.

You can definitely cause mass panic in the crazy blobs that make up EotM with that approach, but I’d want something with a bit more support and well planned (like with Foefaller suggests) to take this out to regular WvW.

Foefaller.1082:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

insanemaniac.2456:

i dont think anyone is calling for a nerf for it yet from a wvw standpoint. the pvp community cries about slick shoes a bit, because trapping an opponent without a blink is pretty easy. and apparently a 24-27 sec (30 base) cd stunbreak with a reset is too good.

its too early for wvw to cry for nerfs. engis arent even meta in zergs yet.

I don’t wvw that often but given the “pirate ship” meta that I’ve heard of has less stability, wouldn’t a few “torpedos” like
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqOlUUpkrdex+qRcMmR2xKhM6pFd2DEAA-TVhRABGq+DA7PYiSQC1DQpyPxAUE-w
work wonders at chain CCing an entire zerg. Just slick shoes then elixir S to charge through them. I went with full nomads + all the dmg/condition reducers for “uber tank” so it could survive an initial charge before getting close enough to slick-s a zerg. PVT + some retal could probably help a bit for the offense but whatever.

Unlike the other CC walls at choke points, this would bring the cc to the enemy zerg. Anyone try this sort of thing after stability patch?

Too visible, smart/aware zergs will try to evade anyone they see coming with oil patches following them that they can’t dps, and 4 secs isn’t enough time to get in the middle before Elixir S wears off and they get vaporized.

Now, if you get a Mesmer to drop a portal, self invis, blink over to their side, drop the second half, and then have several of these engis jump through and spread out with the slick shoes going, that might be a good recipe to bring chaos to the enemy zerg.

you have your own stealths and you can be inside their ball without even turning slicky on or having them throwing aoes on you

in fact, slicky doesnt break stealth

insanemaniac.2456:

Foefaller.1082:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

insanemaniac.2456:

i dont think anyone is calling for a nerf for it yet from a wvw standpoint. the pvp community cries about slick shoes a bit, because trapping an opponent without a blink is pretty easy. and apparently a 24-27 sec (30 base) cd stunbreak with a reset is too good.

its too early for wvw to cry for nerfs. engis arent even meta in zergs yet.

I don’t wvw that often but given the “pirate ship” meta that I’ve heard of has less stability, wouldn’t a few “torpedos” like
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqOlUUpkrdex+qRcMmR2xKhM6pFd2DEAA-TVhRABGq+DA7PYiSQC1DQpyPxAUE-w
work wonders at chain CCing an entire zerg. Just slick shoes then elixir S to charge through them. I went with full nomads + all the dmg/condition reducers for “uber tank” so it could survive an initial charge before getting close enough to slick-s a zerg. PVT + some retal could probably help a bit for the offense but whatever.

Unlike the other CC walls at choke points, this would bring the cc to the enemy zerg. Anyone try this sort of thing after stability patch?

Too visible, smart/aware zergs will try to evade anyone they see coming with oil patches following them that they can’t dps, and 4 secs isn’t enough time to get in the middle before Elixir S wears off and they get vaporized.

Now, if you get a Mesmer to drop a portal, self invis, blink over to their side, drop the second half, and then have several of these engis jump through and spread out with the slick shoes going, that might be a good recipe to bring chaos to the enemy zerg.

you have your own stealths and you can be inside their ball without even turning slicky on or having them throwing aoes on you

in fact, slicky doesnt break stealth

I always forget toss elixir S, don’t use it that much so it tends to be forgotten.

In fact, maybe have a group of engis use it together, and use the stacked stealth to maximize the time you have to get to the enemy zerg. They’d all have to be grouped together though, to make sure that the 5 targets allowed by Toss Elixir S included them instead of the engi who threw it + the 4 guys closest to the target center.

now youre thinking!

i think a better comp for an engi party would be 4 + 1 ham/staff/gs (pick 2) guard. (a guard just adds so much support, especially stability, and extra protection is extremely welcome.) altho 5 toss S’s is max stealth duration, i dont think thats entirely necessary. 1 smoke + 4 BoB + 4 rocket boots + 1 mighty blow hands out more than enough stealth for the party to engage on their terms, and a gs guard could help ensure significant numbers get trapped in puddles when they try to escape. in addition, the engis will have to give up bombs or rocket boots for S — giving up rocket boots may be ok in a gvg, but prolly not while zerging, and giving up bombs will prolly require a hammer (which is a wild card at this point, only rifle would be inadequate for sure).

maybe they could even run vamp runes for a 2nd/3rd invuln while low (trololol). so the enemy gank has to waste even more time focusing them when they get low.

Novuake.2691:

krixis.9538:

funny how before the change slick shoes was a joke.

suddenly now its a huge threat to melee it needs a nerf ???

its a CC its designed to be a high threat attack that catchs you offgaurd. (pun intended) the old pvp meta with old stab needs to be reworked into a new meta for the new stab.

in time once ppl learn new meta you will have found ways to counter this.

engineer and our skills are not the issue here.

the issue here is the playerbase and lack of forward thinking on how to counter things that are not actually a huge threat to you in a pvp situation.

this stab nerf was a very much needed change. no more immunity to a large amount of skills in the game. and now engies can rip stab of targets

The thing is its NOT counter-able ON POINT, which is the problem. You have no way to counter it at all.

I’m getting real tired of the community in this game demanding hard-counters for everything. How about, maybe, you run around it? Or perhaps disengage. Or do any other of the numerous things that work, but aren’t a direct counter.

If you want a hard counter for EVERYTHING, maybe you should play cards.

Suppose stealth engages should be telegraphed and we should have whopping great animations for on hit/crit procs too? Counterplay doesn’t have to be about blocking and dodging EVERY attack! It’s also about how you take a hit and deal with it after the fact.

insanemaniac.2456:

now youre thinking!

i think a better comp for an engi party would be 4 + 1 ham/staff/gs (pick 2) guard. (a guard just adds so much support, especially stability, and extra protection is extremely welcome.) altho 5 toss S’s is max stealth duration, i dont think thats entirely necessary. 1 smoke + 4 BoB + 4 rocket boots + 1 mighty blow hands out more than enough stealth for the party to engage on their terms, and a gs guard could help ensure significant numbers get trapped in puddles when they try to escape. in addition, the engis will have to give up bombs or rocket boots for S — giving up rocket boots may be ok in a gvg, but prolly not while zerging, and giving up bombs will prolly require a hammer (which is a wild card at this point, only rifle would be inadequate for sure).

maybe they could even run vamp runes for a 2nd/3rd invuln while low (trololol). so the enemy gank has to waste even more time focusing them when they get low.

Not Vamp, Defender.

…though, Vamp might be better on the whole “infuriate zerg for as long as possible” angle. Defender is more for small group/roam trolololing.