Guild Wars 2

the ‘golden rule’ of damage output is as follows:
in every mmo, regardless of what the developers say, the damage output is in favor of the cliche classes.(warrior, rogue, archer[not so much ranger], mage)
the second golden rule is, the more popular a class, the more attention it will receive from bugfixes(might explain why our list just keeps growing)
knowing how much a backstab from a thief can hit for(just took one for 5.6k in wvw)and knowing how much 100b can hit for(i’ve been dropped by the 4th swing)what’s an Engineer to do? Well normally we’d see what we’re doing wrong, but i took those when i was running about 3300 armor rating.
wasn’t it stated that all classes would be able to do the same amount of damage one way or another?
100nades is a way i guess, but being a glass scientist isn’t my cup of charr coffee.
by the way, perma-stability for warriors is complete garbage. you can do absolutely nothing to that as a rifle engineer.
I don’t know about the rest of the Eng players, but i’m fine with less kits, but make the ones that are saved better. flame thrower? just scrap it. Elixir gun? for me it’s useless. Bomb kit? i guess if you’re suicidal…. Grenade kit? leave it as is. Tool kit? save, but needs an incredible amount of refining. that box of nails thing is just pointless.
Most of the elixirs work as intended, but throwing them is so unreliable it hurts. Try needing stealth very badly to get into a tower and getting stability instead. Not funny.
Gadgets: they do nothing, moving on.(although for lulz, throw the knockback mines on walls to knock off enemies)
Elites: i run elixir x and love it…when it turns me into a brute. the mortar(with traits, yes it counts as a turret) would have 1800-200 range if the traits worked. in wvw, you would not see an Eng without one(gotta find an Engineer first to see it)

Rifle: while it’s fun, it’s also kind of insulting. the profession that designed it(which also wears the lighter armor) gets less beneficial things than the class that just fires it.(really? you let warriors snipe too?) Warrior’s armor is much more suited to Engineer’s form of rifle. I propose Eng’s rifle be a hybrid of close and long range. (3 round burst auto attack anyone?)

kbyegripeoverloveyou

• yes.. apparently engi’s are to be hybrid between long-short range since all weapons and most skills a broken between these two ranges.

• Gadgets, skills are good but they just need a much shorter cd.

• Rifle engineer easily owns any warrior. But yes! warrior rifle skills are ridiculous! i’ve been running it on sPvP hitting 17k’s!!!! on light armors (possibly add screenshots)!
  ps: it’s only kill shot & volley that are good in my opinion, rest are meh.. engi’s are better.

• You’re right a lot of points tho

google.3709:

• yes.. apparently engi’s are to be hybrid between long-short range since all weapons and most skills a broken between these two ranges.

• Gadgets, skills are good but they just need a much shorter cd.

• Rifle engineer easily owns any warrior. But yes! warrior rifle skills are ridiculous! i’ve been running it on sPvP hitting 17k’s!!!! on light armors (possibly add screenshots)!
  ps: it’s only kill shot & volley that are good in my opinion, rest are meh.. engi’s are better.

• You’re right a lot of points tho

the point of rifle eng owning warrior has no correlation to the fact a shotgun is better suited to a heavy armor class though.

Lightsbane.9012:

google.3709:

• yes.. apparently engi’s are to be hybrid between long-short range since all weapons and most skills a broken between these two ranges.

• Gadgets, skills are good but they just need a much shorter cd.

• Rifle engineer easily owns any warrior. But yes! warrior rifle skills are ridiculous! i’ve been running it on sPvP hitting 17k’s!!!! on light armors (possibly add screenshots)!
  ps: it’s only kill shot & volley that are good in my opinion, rest are meh.. engi’s are better.

• You’re right a lot of points tho

the point of rifle eng owning warrior has no correlation to the fact a shotgun is better suited to a heavy armor class though.

“gets less beneficial things than the class that just fires it”

Engineer’s rifle is skill has more beneficial skills, that’s why they easily able to overpower warriors!

also, the only shotgun-like ability is blunderbuss

…and jump shot and netshot and hip shot and overcharged shot. those are clearly not sniper skills.

At least you should be happy that you don’t get pigeonholed into ONE scheme like most of builds. I really don’t see what’s your problem.

pza.8024:

…and jump shot and netshot and hip shot and overcharged shot. those are clearly not sniper skills.

Things that you often see shotguns used for.

Some valid points, but I’m not sure we should be asking for these things. Warriors and thieves are two professions with high damage but not a lot other good stuff. Thieves are great in WvW because of culling, but in tournaments thieves are mediocre and warriors are horrible.

Also, just because certain skills are ineffective in some portions of the game doesn’t mean they should be removed. I use bombs, flamethrower, toolkit, and rifle regularly—sometimes all at the same time. I will probably never take toolkit to a dungeon or bombs to WvW, but they are good kits in other situations.

They can use help, but I don’t think engies are severely underpowered as you make them out to be (As long as you either go 100nades or bunker at least).

Lightsbane.9012:

by the way, perma-stability for warriors is complete garbage. you can do absolutely nothing to that as a rifle engineer.

I just wish the stability icon stood out more, I usually have to search for it when fighting a guardian or warrior because I know how threatening it is to engies, and for guardians its usually hidden under a whole mess of other boons. It would help if they allowed us to personally customize the color of the boons (Like say I wanted to make stability red to make it stand out). But anyways with a rifle you should still be able to immobilize someone with stability.

Use Throw Mine; Stability is gone.
Though I don’t know if it removes the Stability before or after attempting to knock them back. It should be before, but a lot of things don’t work as they should.
…I suppose it might also remove a different boon if they have more than one.

Rifle as most engineer abilities do seem to force you to get dangerously close. Of course despite beind a medium armor profession we are designed to wanna get close to fight with our weapons.

These abilities are clearly encouraging you to get close.
Rifle (blunderbuss, jumpshot)
Pistol (blowtorch) (pistols skills are not long range)
Toolkit (everything)
Bomb (everything)
Flamethrower (auto attack, smoke vent)
Elixer Gun (3rd ability)

So grenade and elixer gun are the only ones that seem to not want us to be close (though grenades suffer no penalty for using them up close, they just become easier to land, unlike mesmer GS and ranger longbow that give you a penalty for fighting too close)

Now theifs dont have much benefit to long range and are typically built to fight close, difference is they can avoid damage much easier and do tremendously more burst.

It is then left obvious the only reason we’re not a heavy armor professions (other than i suppose roleplay reasons?) is its supposed to be countered by us having an abnormal amount of control abilities. But i dont think we do, and this is heavily countered by stability which others have pointed out we have few to no ways to deal with it.

Not to say an engineer with rifle, (turrets push back when they die), healing turret, net turret, battering ram, and throw mine mixed with supply crate cant control the living hell out of someone. It would seem that IDEALLY if a lot of things were cleaned up our profession would be able to work in a fun and satisfying way.

Honestly, engineer for me plays well in all ranges. It won’t beat a LB ranger at max range, but, if you get in close, you can easily over power them with point blank aoe. Thieves are great at closing gaps to attack you up close, but they don’t have as much sustained mobility (most thieves don’t run +25% move speed). What this means is a perfectly acceptable strategy is to run away throwing grenades behind you (auto-ground target). Chill and shrapnel are your best friends here, just remember to dodge the heartseekers (audio cue helps). GS warriors you want to move away from, but come back in close if they pull out a rifle. When you see volley/killshot, reflect it if you have a shield or dodge it like a boss.

Now, to the OP, engineers do lack some of the burst that other classes have. However, we do have some of the best sustained damage, and arguably the access to the most conditions. What this gives us is a unique spot as one of the absolute best bunker busting classes when we spec for it or one of the best bunker classes if we try. We still have 2 burst builds that are on par with other professions, and our kits are a big part of all of this. Elixir gun is a situation tool, but is one of the best buddies a bunker can have. Flamethrower is great in prec/condition builds, though not as viable in pvp/wvw as it could be -yet-. It’s received numerous buffs in the past few months, and may soon be competitive with other condition builds. Bombs are really the only odd dog, as they main purpose and use seems to be in running away or capping/holding points in pvp. Tool kit is another bunker buddy, as well as being a key component in the survivability of our 2 burst builds. Gadgets and turrets both need a bit of help, but, if you try, you can use either to some effect.

Also, if you’re running into HB warriors when you have a rifle, use net shot. Stability doesn’t stop immobilize/cripple effects. Use your dodges and stun breakers carefully, and once his stability is down he’ll have at least 40 seconds before it’s back up again.

Finally, if you’re playing an engineer and expecting big numbers and instagibbed enemies, you’re gonna have a bad time. While we can gib the giblets out of people with hundred ‘nades, you’re probably not going to see to many hits above 4k (jump shot might hit 5 on glass). Once you accept that and are willing to work around it, things become much simpler. Or, refuse to accept it and make it work. Either way, you’ll end up a better player for it. Have a nice day!

@Creld we actually can get incredible high numbers not due to hard hitting attacks but due to our stupidly fast vulnerability stacking we can get from 50% vuln on crit trait, 5 stacks for 8 seconds on immobalize (just think about that one for a second) and every explosion puts on vulnerability trait.

Through triats and then imagine you have goggles (instantly 10 vuln on someone) You can get your jumpshot/blunderbuss to hit like a fing truck because you increased your damage so much, coupled with we have a lot of might stacking abilities (not more than others really, but a good access to it).

So, another thing to add to what you were saying.

EDIT: and incase you didnt think about the immobalize trait. Not only do we have stupid amounts of immobalize. Imagine this, Goggles click 10 vuln, net turret toolbet 5 stacks, rifle net 5 stacks, drop net turret. Instant 25 vuln. without resorting to nades….go in for the kill.

Zinwrath, I like you. First, you proved me wrong, and second, you gave me a new build to try that’s direct damage. Well, mostly proved me wrong. I did say you could refuse to accept the notion of engies hitting you with cyanide laced pillow cases…

I have no idea what I’m saying.

@zinwrath.. wow didnt realise how easy it was to reach the max 25 stacks of vul.. gotta work it into my builds as i really didnt put too much thought into it.. thanks

NP. if you do try a build using the invuln stacking with rifle, remember you can make use of Static Discharge trait in tools for added burst. As this would be a power build using rifle.

Personally (granted i doubt i’m often fighting pros) i drop most people before they ever fight back thanks to knockbacks and nets, (unless they have lots of stability or are tough bunker builds).

If you’d like to see it in action sometime just friend me in game. i’m on a lot and dont mind exchanging builds/strats.