Guild Wars 2

Let me get one thing straight, I love this game. I love the engineer. I’m not quitting or rerolling any time in the forseeable future.

Engineer is by FAR my favorite class, for playstyle and for thrills, however they’re suffering from A.N.L.F.C.S., otherwise known as Arena Net’s Least Favorite Class Syndrome. Their list of bugs could span the earth twice around, their defence, offence, and just about everything else is laughable compared to most other classes.

Let me get one more thing straight, I am not bad at engineer. I’m quite good, in fact. But I’m tired of being left out of dungeon groups because I play an engineer, or being cussed out and called a noob because I play an engineer.

Something NEEDS to be done to bring Engineers back into the loop of normal play. Sure, they have spots where they’re good to have, but it’s a very gimmick sort of access. They’re generally left out of almost everything now, and not much is being done to fix it.

ArenaNet, from a concerned engineer player, please for the love of God, do something positive to this underloved class.

You will be much happier if you just give up and roll another class. At this point it is obvious that ANET thinks we are generally fine as a class or just do not have the resources to do proper balance testing. It will probably take an expansion to get an appropriate class re-vamp. If you like the kit mechanic may I recommend the elementalist… Lot’s of good PvE and WvW/PvP builds in that class, if you are good at kit switching your skill will transfer over quite easily. If you want to continue to play an engineer you just need to accept you are playing the “hard-mode” class. You will need to put in more work for less results. (Also get used to getting nerfed every patch, mitigated by a small series of bug-fixes/buffs to hide it).

^. Agree. And PLEASE don’t start the: ‘does engi suck or doesn’t it’ discussion. That has been discussed about since release!

But try to run the new available builds some great engineer created like demented engineer or tankCAT, those builds really kick kitten

Any group (besides a CoF 1 farm run) that leaves out a Grenadier is making a huge mistake and you don’t want to run with those dummies.

My man problem is this: whenever I try to come up with a true VERSATILE build… I quickly realise that those builds are the worst engineer builds around.
I should know, I always build for versatility!

While the best engineer builds are single-purpose builds. All the popular builds, those with names and threads discussing them, all fill a single role. They hardly ever are more versatile than any other given profession build.

What exactly did we pay a damage tax for again?

Kimbald.2697:

My man problem is this: whenever I try to come up with a true VERSATILE build… I quickly realise that those builds are the worst engineer builds around.
I should know, I always build for versatility!

While the best engineer builds are single-purpose builds. All the popular builds, those with names and threads discussing them, all fill a single role. They hardly ever are more versatile than any other given profession build.

What exactly did we pay a damage tax for again?

I think every class pays a versatility tax to one degree or another. Every class has a plethora of single purpose builds. I’ve never really seen a versatile build in any class that didn’t give something up for it.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Kimbald.2697:

My man problem is this: whenever I try to come up with a true VERSATILE build… I quickly realise that those builds are the worst engineer builds around.
I should know, I always build for versatility!

While the best engineer builds are single-purpose builds. All the popular builds, those with names and threads discussing them, all fill a single role. They hardly ever are more versatile than any other given profession build.

What exactly did we pay a damage tax for again?

I think every class pays a versatility tax to one degree or another. Every class has a plethora of single purpose builds. I’ve never really seen a versatile build in any class that didn’t give something up for it.

Well, I’m just referring to what the dev’s themselves were saying about the engineer.
They started the whole thing about the engineer paying a price for his great versatility, not us.

In the same notes they claimed elementalists to be the kings of versatility… with no mention of a tax.

By the way: it’s not about having lower damage in a versatile build compared to a damage build. of course that is the case, for all professions…
It’s about the engineer supposedly being so versatile they needed to nerf the damage!

You missed the point there. You simply argue that all professions give up something for more versatility, and that is normal.
But the problems arise when you compare the versatile engineer builds to other professions.
Suddenly there doesn’t seem to be any engineer build that is really versatile, that can stand up to other profession builds, or not even to the single purpose engineer builds!

The point was that engineers don’t have any more versatility than others. There are no truly versatile engineer builds that are competetive!

Simply because all our good builds are single-purpose builds. Or at least no more versatile than the competetive builds other professions have!

To this day ive never ever been denied a dungeon group because im a Engineer so i have no idea what some of you guys are smoking.

This is SO true I find myself less and less motivated to logon to my Engi. I have been trying for 2 months now to get enough Arah badges for the chest piece, (which looks pretty sick on my charr) but every group that doesn’t auto kick me for being an Engi winds up being a bunch of total newbs that quit before we even get to lupi.

I’ve actually taken to leveling and gearing a guardian just because they are so valuable to dungeons

Holesale.2640:

To this day ive never ever been denied a dungeon group because im a Engineer so i have no idea what some of you guys are smoking.

i’ve never been involved in a car accident, so why the heck do we need speed limits??

The funny thing about engineer “versatility” is that most of decent the engi builds fall into the “one-trick” pony category (100nades, the new confusion builds, static discharge, Tankcat). This is not to say these builds are easy to play, quite the contrary most folks need to play extremely well to execute their strategy, but in the end if the opponent dodges or recognize the “trick” there is little the Engineer can do to counter.

My biggest beef with the engineer is that their kits have a mix of condition damage and direct damage. The profession would be much better off with kits being either or, not both. Maybe flamethrower makes sense to be the 1 kit that is a mix of both, but for all kits to be is really disappointing.

I would love it if they made wrench kit #1 do 2 stacks of bleed verses a vulnerabity or if grenade kit #1 did a bleed and #2 did a burn. Maybe then those power/crit users could get a sniper kit for compensation.

Also Pistol #1 is underpowered atm, it would really be nice to see it do 2 stacks of bleed or have it cause AoE bleeding from it’s AoE damage. Also piercing shots kinda sucks atm, it would be awesome if this was replaced with bouncing shot even if static shot didn’t benefit from it.

There are so many great ideas for this profession, but ANET needs to wake up.

The damage tax is supposed to make up for us being highly versitile. Except that our kits are really crap if you don’t spec for them. Every seen a effective 100nades build without grenadier trait? Or a bomb kit user without short fused and the longer radius? No. You won’t find them.

When I play my engi I just tell myself anything they can do I can do worse I chuckle a little, cry on the inside and hope for an update soon.

Linc.6834:

I’ve actually taken to leveling and gearing a guardian just because they are so valuable to dungeons

While I’ve never been kicked from a group for being an Engineer, I’ve had my /join requests refused several times, so maybe that was it. And of the PUGs I’ve joined for dungeoning (my guild doesn’t have enough people who enjoy high dungeon difficulty to run with the guild), I’ve got about a 40% failure rate on dungeons. Thus, based on how much easier my Guardian finds it to beat things in outdoor PvE, I’m also leveling and gearing a Guardian for the same reason.

Which is a pity, since concept-wise I find the Engineer more interesting. I just don’t seem to have the skill to play it well enough to be competitive, even in PvE.

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

^. Agree. And PLEASE don’t start the: ‘does engi suck or doesn’t it’ discussion. That has been discussed about since release!

But try to run the new available builds some great engineer created like Stupid named build or failBUILD, those builds really donate badges to your enemies in wvw

Fixed for accuracy

amiable.4823:

The funny thing about engineer “versatility” is that most of decent the engi builds fall into the “one-trick” pony category (100nades, the new confusion builds, static discharge, Tankcat). This is not to say these builds are easy to play, quite the contrary most folks need to play extremely well to execute their strategy, but in the end if the opponent dodges or recognize the “trick” there is little the Engineer can do to counter.

1) If you are looking to forums for stupidly named builds. Then you really shouldnt play the engineer.

2) If you are unable to do research on your own, to design a build, trait and equipment to fit your playstyle and reaction time. You shouldnt play an engineer.

3) If you rely on youtube to teach you how to play a class. Then you need to play some easy game like Call of Duty.

Having played all of them max level, I’d rather play an Engineer than a Ranger or Necromancer in PvE; those two classes are abysmal in dungeons and high end fractals. The Engineer is versatile enough to serve a very useful role. In PvP/WvW, however, each serves very important purposes in a zerg or skirmish group and have distinct roles, and I think the Engineer fits in really well as-is.

If you’re getting kicked from dungeon groups bc you are an engineer, then you really need to go find some other engineers to join you in the dungeon.

Ran Sorrow’s Embrace (don’t recall which path) with 3 engineers, 1 guardian, and 1 mesmer. The player on guardian would actually back up to the choke points and let the engineers do area denial properly bc he was familiar with engineer strengths. The run went pretty fast! Most of us were using bombs and grenades.

PEBKAC.

No, really.

Kozai.8269:

Linc.6834:

I’ve actually taken to leveling and gearing a guardian just because they are so valuable to dungeons

While I’ve never been kicked from a group for being an Engineer, I’ve had my /join requests refused several times, so maybe that was it. And of the PUGs I’ve joined for dungeoning (my guild doesn’t have enough people who enjoy high dungeon difficulty to run with the guild), I’ve got about a 40% failure rate on dungeons. Thus, based on how much easier my Guardian finds it to beat things in outdoor PvE, I’m also leveling and gearing a Guardian for the same reason.

Which is a pity, since concept-wise I find the Engineer more interesting. I just don’t seem to have the skill to play it well enough to be competitive, even in PvE.

Perhaps the groups you tried to join needed a Guardian or strong dps class?
Last I remember, when you invite yourself to a group, they cannot see your class (Unless you’re within clicking distance, if you know what I mean.)

We are too much of a wild card, probably why we get the boot. Typically, when most people see the Engineer, they think you’re going to be tanky or going to be throwing grenades. Being the only Engineer in a 400+ player guild, I seem to run into this issue a lot. Educate the ones that listen; the ones that don’t listen, are bad PUGS anyway. Think of it as an easy way to avoid bad runs. On a serious note, don’t take it personally. As long as there are RPG/MMOs, you’ll have an under powered class and an overpowered class.

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

Kozai.8269:

Linc.6834:

I’ve actually taken to leveling and gearing a guardian just because they are so valuable to dungeons

While I’ve never been kicked from a group for being an Engineer, I’ve had my /join requests refused several times, so maybe that was it. And of the PUGs I’ve joined for dungeoning (my guild doesn’t have enough people who enjoy high dungeon difficulty to run with the guild), I’ve got about a 40% failure rate on dungeons. Thus, based on how much easier my Guardian finds it to beat things in outdoor PvE, I’m also leveling and gearing a Guardian for the same reason.

Which is a pity, since concept-wise I find the Engineer more interesting. I just don’t seem to have the skill to play it well enough to be competitive, even in PvE.

Perhaps the groups you tried to join needed a Guardian or strong dps class?
Last I remember, when you invite yourself to a group, they cannot see your class (Unless you’re within clicking distance, if you know what I mean.)

We are too much of a wild card, probably why we get the boot. Typically, when most people see the Engineer, they think you’re going to be tanky or going to be throwing grenades. Being the only Engineer in a 400+ player guild, I seem to run into this issue a lot. Educate the ones that listen; the ones that don’t listen, are bad PUGS anyway. Think of it as an easy way to avoid bad runs. On a serious note, don’t take it personally. As long as there are RPG/MMOs, you’ll have an under powered class and an overpowered class.

at least other MMOs try balance the underpowered class even if it is by giving them 1 overpowered skill or mechanic or weakening others temporarily but here we dont see that everyone gets super buffed and engies get scraps sprinkled on them .

Well, I’m glad I’ve gotten this much feedback! Generally, the replies summed up can be said as “get used to it or re-roll”. I’m more than used to the “hard mode” play and I rather enjoy it. It’s the “nobody likes engineer because they’re UP as crap” problem.

Lebannen.8325:

amiable.4823:

The funny thing about engineer “versatility” is that most of decent the engi builds fall into the “one-trick” pony category (100nades, the new confusion builds, static discharge, Tankcat). This is not to say these builds are easy to play, quite the contrary most folks need to play extremely well to execute their strategy, but in the end if the opponent dodges or recognize the “trick” there is little the Engineer can do to counter.

1) If you are looking to forums for stupidly named builds. Then you really shouldnt play the engineer.

2) If you are unable to do research on your own, to design a build, trait and equipment to fit your playstyle and reaction time. You shouldnt play an engineer.

3) If you rely on youtube to teach you how to play a class. Then you need to play some easy game like Call of Duty.

That’s not what I was really trying to say (I do fine on my engineer), but thanks for being a kitten about it!

Lebannen.8325:

amiable.4823:

The funny thing about engineer “versatility” is that most of decent the engi builds fall into the “one-trick” pony category (100nades, the new confusion builds, static discharge, Tankcat). This is not to say these builds are easy to play, quite the contrary most folks need to play extremely well to execute their strategy, but in the end if the opponent dodges or recognize the “trick” there is little the Engineer can do to counter.

1) If you are looking to forums for stupidly named builds. Then you really shouldnt play the engineer.

2) If you are unable to do research on your own, to design a build, trait and equipment to fit your playstyle and reaction time. You shouldnt play an engineer.

3) If you rely on youtube to teach you how to play a class. Then you need to play some easy game like Call of Duty.

Man that guy.

Such a wonderful poster.

look at the array of weapons compared to the warrior:

warrior: main hand:axe, mace, sword.
off hand:axe,mace,sword,shield,warhorn.
two hands:greatsword, hammer, bow, rifle.
aquatic:harpoon gun, trident.

engineer:main hand:pistol
off hand:pistol, shield.
two hands:rifle.
aquatic:harpoon gun.
pathetic.
the engineer has kits, but i dont use them.

I still wish we were the absolute kings of CC.

Concussion Bomb: Used to Daze
Static Shot: Used to Daze
Smoke Vent: Used to be a Pull
Pry Bar: Used to Push
Napalm: Used to Blind
Concussion Grenades: Used to Stun
Glue Shot: Used to be 2 second Immobilize/3 Second Cripple
Glue Bomb: Used to be a 4 second Immobilize

Without Stability against an Engineer, you knew you weren’t going to have much chance to attack him. Our damage was NOTABLY lower than the other professions, but our CC was NOTABLY higher than anyone else.

If they added all those extra effects to what we have now, I would be one happy Engineer.

I still wish we were the absolute kings of CC.

Concussion Bomb: Used to Daze
Static Shot: Used to Daze
Smoke Vent: Used to be a Pull
Pry Bar: Used to Push
Napalm: Used to Blind
Concussion Grenades: Used to Stun
Glue Shot: Used to be 2 second Immobilize/3 Second Cripple
Glue Bomb: Used to be a 4 second Immobilize

Without Stability against an Engineer, you knew you weren’t going to have much chance to attack him. Our damage was NOTABLY lower than the other professions, but our CC was NOTABLY higher than anyone else.

If they added all those extra effects to what we have now, I would be one happy Engineer.

Lebannen.8325:

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

^. Agree. And PLEASE don’t start the: ‘does engi suck or doesn’t it’ discussion. That has been discussed about since release!

But try to run the new available builds some great engineer created like Stupid named build or failBUILD, those builds really donate badges to your enemies in wvw

Fixed for accuracy

Lol? I guess someone was having a bad time .. or something?

Lebannen.8325:

amiable.4823:

The funny thing about engineer “versatility” is that most of decent the engi builds fall into the “one-trick” pony category (100nades, the new confusion builds, static discharge, Tankcat). This is not to say these builds are easy to play, quite the contrary most folks need to play extremely well to execute their strategy, but in the end if the opponent dodges or recognize the “trick” there is little the Engineer can do to counter.

1) If you are looking to forums for stupidly named builds. Then you really shouldnt play the engineer.

2) If you are unable to do research on your own, to design a build, trait and equipment to fit your playstyle and reaction time. You shouldnt play an engineer.

3) If you rely on youtube to teach you how to play a class. Then you need to play some easy game like Call of Duty.

1) It seems YOU don’t like the names. Which is an opinion, I for example like them

2) It seems YOU have the great power to see what kind of player someone is just by reading his random posts on a forum and then burn him in a nasty way for noe reason. There are better ways to use your powers.

3) If you use this way of discussing, I will not reacte serious, or give an serious argument.

I do kinda wish that control and support was a bit bigger in our profession. At least in our builds that would be deemed viable.

I mean Flash Grenades, Glue Shot, and Glue Bomb to me all feel like they are pretty weak Control options. They are however in one of the stronger kits and weapon options we have, so I always feel guilty suggesting what would be a buff to Grenades, Bombs, or Pistols. As it stands though, Glue Bomb is just a worse version of Glue Shot. Glue Shot is just a ranged 1s Immobilize in most cases. Flash Grenades is like trading an action with an opponent for very little. Most Blinds carry a side effect, are instant, or pulse, but not Flash Grenades. I mean all these abilities are useful, but only because they are the only control options in those sets. I would still like to see these boosted in control or some other way.

The other thing I’d like to see is our survivability be moved more towards sustain and boon support. We have Healing Turret, why doesn’t it do any direct healing? Why aren’t the Med Kit pickups an AoE effect? Our Elixirs hardly support anyone but ourselves, and even when traited only do a mediocre job at it. Again though, it’s hard to make suggestions to what would be our most powerful builds though. I still think this stuff needs changes, but these types of changes would have to go into effect for every profession to maintain balance.

I mean as per the definition of what the devs have indicated, some of our strengths should be control and boon support. I’d like to see some more of that pushed. We have some adequate damage builds already, and although we need some more work there I think it’s more important to maintain the flavor of the profession beyond just Kits and Tool Belt skills.