Guild Wars 2

Run a non nade/bomb dungeon pve build what would be the best dps? I have full zerk gear and scholar runes but just don’t like nades.

Probably some SD build but without some kit you basicly cut your dps by half. But if you will use toolkit autoattack in rotation dps will be almost as good as bomb/nades builds
Build like this should have massive dps:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpmqlcxLLseNifBN2mkEQXgAs0vtOA-TxRBABXt/o8DPdELcgAEV9HAuAA59ABMTJYAgDgf/Nw3fz5nf+5nfenf+5nf+5lCQPdVA-e

in dungeons, an engi without nades is kinda like… an ele without ice bow

the vuln is our shtick

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i mean you dont really need to run bombs ever but if you join picky lfgs theyll expect nades and if you dont put out youll be out so… stick to guild or all welcome runs or risk getting the boot…

Whenever I don’t feel like running Grenade Kit, I use my Flamethrower build! Fury and might for everybody! I usually run Strength Runes but Scholar would work fine! It’s PvE! You can run anything! I play random builds all the time while pugging Fractals 50, the supposed end game PvE content, and it’s just a cakewalk every time regardless of my build! It’s sad really how much of a jokeskis PvE is! Anywhere here it is!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpmqtbxWLseNSdBNqoA6AUguK6EGjQD-ThRBABXt/o8DPdAAcBAy7BAQp6PmpEEA-e

Wahoo! Bye frands!

If you hate grenades go bombs. If you hate bombs too then you might as well use whatever else you want because you won’t deal damage.

That’s a toughy. Grenades are our highest damaging kit, without them our DPS suffers considerably, bombs are a close second. Try a static discharge build using rifle turret (for the toolbelt skill) elixer gun, and Flamethrower, Rocet boots, or throw mine. You still won’t do as much damage as any build using grenades, but that would be your best options IMO.

No, bombs definitely out damage grenades.

coglin.1867:

No, bombs definitely out damage grenades.

yep, when comparing 1s and if you dont need the vuln stacking (but you prolly shouldnt be pushing 1 too much anyways)

Bomb 1 deals 25% more damage than grenade 1, and that’s it. Nade 2, 4 and toolbelt are ultra hard hitters and outdamage any bomb skill by far. Yet even grenade 1 deals more TEAMDAMAGE than bomb 1, since more vuln = more passive damage = more damage for the team and this is all what counts. If you prefer bomb 1 over nade 1 you might aswell play again dps warrior over ps warrior.

btt:
You “can” use what ever you like, but to not be ballast for your team due low dps and utility, I highly recomment to use grenades + bombs / flame thrower + elixier gun / mine and swap some stuff according to the situation. I know especially for new players grenades and bombs (especially nades) are a pain to use, but you get used to it, they’re both awesome.

If you want some engi advice and you are on EU servers, feel free to pm me ingame and I show you some stuff greez!

Ziggy

Run a hgh build with elixir U+B and spam the crap out of the tool kit auto. If anyone complains bash them in the head with a crowbar. Works (almost) every time!

Xyonon.3987:

Bomb 1 deals 25% more damage than grenade 1, and that’s it. Nade 2, 4 and toolbelt are ultra hard hitters and outdamage any bomb skill by far. Yet even grenade 1 deals more TEAMDAMAGE than bomb 1, since more vuln = more passive damage = more damage for the team and this is all what counts. If you prefer bomb 1 over nade 1 you might aswell play again dps warrior over ps warrior.

---

btt:
You “can” use what ever you like, but to not be ballast for your team due low dps and utility, I highly recomment to use grenades + bombs / flame thrower + elixier gun / mine and swap some stuff according to the situation. I know especially for new players grenades and bombs (especially nades) are a pain to use, but you get used to it, they’re both awesome.

If you want some engi advice and you are on EU servers, feel free to pm me ingame and I show you some stuff greez!

Ziggy

Well best way to damage is use nades 2,4 and bomb 1 as autoattack in rotation with condi duration food 25 vulne isnt a problem. 3rd utility you can choose between EG and mines. EG 4 have little bit higher damage than mne field but mine field stack another vulnerability and remove boons witch is great on some bosses

Try this out and see if you like it. Let me know if it worked for you.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdEQFAUlUUpmqlcx2KseNSeBN6rkkiA6Asgq+p6B-ThBFABC8AAQa/R5Xa6AA4CAUo6PXpEMAwBw5nHAO/8zP/8z78zP/8zPvUARMGA-e
Rocket turret can be replaced with mines. This should give you a huge amount of dps in groups for pve dungeons. Hope this helps and gl.

Rozbuska.5263:

Well best way to damage is use nades 2,4 and bomb 1 as autoattack in rotation with condi duration food 25 vulne isnt a problem.

For personal damage it’s the best. But you won’t get up to 25 stacks with bomb aa unless it’s trash. Ppl keep forgetting the only thing that counts is team damage, not personal damage. Nade 1 > bomb 1, unless trash / wide spreaded mobs.

Rozbuska.5263:

3rd utility you can choose between EG and mines. EG 4 have little bit higher damage than mne field but mine field stack another vulnerability and remove boons witch is great on some bosses

I love da dredges crying _ <3 Or the 25 stacks asc fotm guys, thehe. Yea Mine is a totally underestimated skill, somehow forgotten thx to #metabattle… Glad there are still engis out there who know more.

Sizer.5632:

Run a hgh build with elixir U+B and spam the crap out of the tool kit auto. If anyone complains bash them in the head with a crowbar. Works (almost) every time!

Great , i will try it in hotjoin …. smashing people with wrench is the thing i love more of engineer class

ArrDee.2573:

Whenever I don’t feel like running Grenade Kit, I use my Flamethrower build! Fury and might for everybody! I usually run Strength Runes but Scholar would work fine! It’s PvE! You can run anything! I play random builds all the time while pugging Fractals 50, the supposed end game PvE content, and it’s just a cakewalk every time regardless of my build! It’s sad really how much of a jokeskis PvE is! Anywhere here it is!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpmqtbxWLseNSdBNqoA6AUguK6EGjQD-ThRBABXt/o8DPdAAcBAy7BAQp6PmpEEA-e

Wahoo! Bye frands!

This build works. EG and FT both have high damage abilities on low cooldown, and surprise shot +1 more blast finisher makes for some good extra damage with static discharge. Try it, it is very similar to what I run when trying to avoid nades.

Edit: I obviously switch speedy kits for static discharge.

Xyonon.3987:

Rozbuska.5263:

Well best way to damage is use nades 2,4 and bomb 1 as autoattack in rotation with condi duration food 25 vulne isnt a problem.

For personal damage it’s the best. But you won’t get up to 25 stacks with bomb aa unless it’s trash. Ppl keep forgetting the only thing that counts is team damage, not personal damage. Nade 1 > bomb 1, unless trash / wide spreaded mobs.

Rozbuska.5263:

3rd utility you can choose between EG and mines. EG 4 have little bit higher damage than mne field but mine field stack another vulnerability and remove boons witch is great on some bosses

I love da dredges crying _ <3 Or the 25 stacks asc fotm guys, thehe. Yea Mine is a totally underestimated skill, somehow forgotten thx to #metabattle… Glad there are still engis out there who know more.

Actualy if you have +power + condi duration food witch is far best for engi you can manage 25 stacks on bosses just with barrage and nade 2,4 in rotation. Ofc sometime bosses clear condis so you must throw there one or two nade 1 sometime. Bombs are simply too superior to not have them. Not only for dps but also for stealthing, fire and glue bomb.
Yea metabattle is plague.

isn’t tool kit’s wrench auto pretty decent damage?

Kinda depends on group makeup doesn’kitten Grenades are high but Vulnerability plays a big part in that. Vulnerability taken out of the equation Bombs, Tool Kit, Rifle n FT all start looking a lot better. SD always increased my numbers. Adding in a Rifle or Flame Turret also increased my numbers.

With everything I tested 6/6/0/0/2 always came out higher personal DPS as would be expected with 6/2/0/0/6 being only a bit behind. Rifle/Nades/EG or TK/Flame Turret/ SD with Rampagers clocked the highest personal sustained DPS for me but Zerker will be better in most PvE settings.

For personal DPS never camp one kit or weapon. Always cycle to the highest damage ability that’s off cooldown asap, Nades 2n4, Rifle 3n5, EG4, FT2/2 etc.. Pick skills that have low CD n higher damage toolbelts if you run SD, Rifle Turret, Grenades, TK, PBR, Mines, etc…

Biggest part though is adjusting to your group. If it needs Vulnerability then go Grenades, if not then some options open up. That’s what I love about Engi, you can be quite valuable to a group with Vulnerability and sometimes you get the option to just mess around and DPS.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

isn’t tool kit’s wrench auto pretty decent damage?

From my testing TK auto is pretty good if you take Vulnerability stacks out of the equation.

Rozbuska.5263:

Xyonon.3987:

Rozbuska.5263:

Well best way to damage is use nades 2,4 and bomb 1 as autoattack in rotation with condi duration food 25 vulne isnt a problem.

For personal damage it’s the best. But you won’t get up to 25 stacks with bomb aa unless it’s trash. Ppl keep forgetting the only thing that counts is team damage, not personal damage. Nade 1 > bomb 1, unless trash / wide spreaded mobs.

Rozbuska.5263:

3rd utility you can choose between EG and mines. EG 4 have little bit higher damage than mne field but mine field stack another vulnerability and remove boons witch is great on some bosses

I love da dredges crying _ <3 Or the 25 stacks asc fotm guys, thehe. Yea Mine is a totally underestimated skill, somehow forgotten thx to #metabattle… Glad there are still engis out there who know more.

Actualy if you have +power + condi duration food witch is far best for engi you can manage 25 stacks on bosses just with barrage and nade 2,4 in rotation. Ofc sometime bosses clear condis so you must throw there one or two nade 1 sometime. Bombs are simply too superior to not have them. Not only for dps but also for stealthing, fire and glue bomb.
Yea metabattle is plague.

I’d have to ask that you run that test again. Even with the standard nade rotation keeping barrage, shrapnel, and freeze on cooldown as well as slipping some 1’s in, I’m seeing typically ~15 without food, ~20 with food. Of course after a barrage it spikes up, but from what I’ve seen those are my general numbers that I can assume will be there. Now strait nade spamming may be a little higher, but this is including EG/FT/Bomb/toolkit/whatever being rotated in so not as much nade spam but the big 3 skills are kept on cooldown.

It depend on the group setup.

- If you bring your engineer in a party with 2 Elementalist with 5pts in Air, 1 warrior and a thief then you don’t need to use as much nades and you can replace the nade auto-attack with bomb auto-attack. You will still be at 25 stack of vulnerability against boss.

- But if the rest of your group can’t provide much vulnerability, then nade auto-attack will be better.

But I still don’t really like bomb. Big O Bomb is your best damage skill but the launch can be bad news. Against a single boss after the Icebow burst ok, but against several mobs it only de-stack them and can make the managing of defiant harder. The other advantage of bomb is fire bomb. But it become useless when you have Ele or Warriors (which is the majority of the runs for me).

I prefer using Nade/Elixir Gun/Flamethrower or Nade/Elixir Gun/Tool Belt and switch out for bomb only if we need stealth.

But really as long as you have Nade you can use any of those kits : Bomb, Elixir Gun, Flamethrower and Tool Belts and still do a decent job.

- Bomb will depend on the vulnerability and utilities that your group need.
- Elixir gun give you the most dps but it the hardest to use
- Flamethrower give you a nice burst
- Tool belt give you a little less burst than Flamethrower, but give you a nice block.

Even with bufffood, you can SUSTAIN (!) only 15 stacks vuln on bosses. Sure you get higher but that’s just spike like from barrage. Don’t dream too much :P

Xyonon.3987:

Even with bufffood, you can SUSTAIN (!) only 15 stacks vuln on bosses. Sure you get higher but that’s just spike like from barrage. Don’t dream too much :P

He didn’t say by himself. There is other player providing vulnerability in your party.

Just throwing this out there, but folks also underestimate the ability of bombs to keep vulnerability up with “steel packed powder” as Fire Bomb, Smoke Bomb, and Glue Bomb can trigger this trait on each pulse. That’s 12 stacks out of those 3 bombs alone. Sitting duck can add 5 more stacks for 8s with Glue bomb.

Xyonon.3987:

Even with bufffood, you can SUSTAIN (!) only 15 stacks vuln on bosses. Sure you get higher but that’s just spike like from barrage. Don’t dream too much :P

Thanks for confirmation, I was thinking I was at 15 without food but I may have swapped to using that food already when I had looked. And then with Scale venom you can add a little more on top (not much) and same with frailty.

coglin.1867:

Just throwing this out there, but folks also underestimate the ability of bombs to keep vulnerability up with “steel packed powder” as Fire Bomb, Smoke Bomb, and Glue Bomb can trigger this trait on each pulse. That’s 12 stacks out of those 3 bombs alone. Sitting duck can add 5 more stacks for 8s with Glue bomb.

While spending time doing non damaging attacks >.<

Jerus.4350:

coglin.1867:

Just throwing this out there, but folks also underestimate the ability of bombs to keep vulnerability up with “steel packed powder” as Fire Bomb, Smoke Bomb, and Glue Bomb can trigger this trait on each pulse. That’s 12 stacks out of those 3 bombs alone. Sitting duck can add 5 more stacks for 8s with Glue bomb.

While spending time doing non damaging attacks >.<

Is there some rule that suggest CC and AoE blindness are bad?
They keep me from having to revive the try hard “Mooost DMG or GTFO” clowns who always seem to have that elitist attitude, yet die occasionally when I do not………………..Fire bomb is 2750-3250 damage on a 8s cooldown, while giving 4 stacks of vulnerability on a 10s cool down. I hardly call that a “non damaging attack” but heh’ to each his own I guess.

coglin.1867:

Just throwing this out there, but folks also underestimate the ability of bombs to keep vulnerability up with “steel packed powder” as Fire Bomb, Smoke Bomb, and Glue Bomb can trigger this trait on each pulse. That’s 12 stacks out of those 3 bombs alone. Sitting duck can add 5 more stacks for 8s with Glue bomb.

I just checked and some of them don’t. Fire Bomb does, for a total of 4 stacks, but Smoke Bomb only applies 3 stacks total. And Glue Bomb only applies 1 stack on the initial hit, not on the “pulses”. So that’s 8 stacks total between them.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Jerus.4350:

coglin.1867:

Just throwing this out there, but folks also underestimate the ability of bombs to keep vulnerability up with “steel packed powder” as Fire Bomb, Smoke Bomb, and Glue Bomb can trigger this trait on each pulse. That’s 12 stacks out of those 3 bombs alone. Sitting duck can add 5 more stacks for 8s with Glue bomb.

While spending time doing non damaging attacks >.<

Is there some rule that suggest CC and AoE blindness are bad?
They keep me from having to revive the try hard “Mooost DMG or GTFO” clowns who always seem to have that elitist attitude, yet die occasionally when I do not………………..Fire bomb is 2750-3250 damage on a 8s cooldown, while giving 4 stacks of vulnerability on a 10s cool down. I hardly call that a “non damaging attack” but heh’ to each his own I guess.

Referring to Smoke/Glue mainly, though fire is a bit lacking if you are already having a bunch of burning on the enemy as well. And the blind, well blind is not something that can be relied on at all on bosses with unshakable, and anything that isn’t a boss vuln is pretty easily kept up and things die super fast anyways so… yeah.

Either way, wasn’t trying to be elitist simply point out why they are “overlooked”.

Jerus.4350:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Jerus.4350:

coglin.1867:

Just throwing this out there, but folks also underestimate the ability of bombs to keep vulnerability up with “steel packed powder” as Fire Bomb, Smoke Bomb, and Glue Bomb can trigger this trait on each pulse. That’s 12 stacks out of those 3 bombs alone. Sitting duck can add 5 more stacks for 8s with Glue bomb.

While spending time doing non damaging attacks >.<

Is there some rule that suggest CC and AoE blindness are bad?
They keep me from having to revive the try hard “Mooost DMG or GTFO” clowns who always seem to have that elitist attitude, yet die occasionally when I do not………………..Fire bomb is 2750-3250 damage on a 8s cooldown, while giving 4 stacks of vulnerability on a 10s cool down. I hardly call that a “non damaging attack” but heh’ to each his own I guess.

Referring to Smoke/Glue mainly, though fire is a bit lacking if you are already having a bunch of burning on the enemy as well. And the blind, well blind is not something that can be relied on at all on bosses with unshakable, and anything that isn’t a boss vuln is pretty easily kept up and things die super fast anyways so… yeah.

Either way, wasn’t trying to be elitist simply point out why they are “overlooked”.

I doubt that anything you mentioned is why it over looked. I think it is over looked because it simply because it isn’t really common knowledge that pulses on those bombs effect certain traits, sigils, and runes activations. You mention fire bomb when a lot of burning already, as if your attempting to dismiss it. The same applies to shrapnel and poison grenades. They can easily have extremely diminished value with a necro, warrior, or ele that uses earth much, around.

The point is, the OP was asking a question about the two kits. I gather they are not experts on the kits, so I wanted to offer some information about how pulses of bombs function with some traits, as well as sigils and runes for that matter. Yet, your making an effort to devalue bombs, outside the scope of the point I was making.

And what point were you making? That you’re awesome and the try hard zerks are baddies? … ok…

Bombs are not a bad option, but using smoke bomb for the vuln has an opportunity cost, you get a couple more stacks of vuln but you don’t do the damage you could by simply dropping another 1skill bomb, which still gives 1 vuln. It’s an opportunity cost that should be noted and understood. Every choice in this game is about opportunity cost, it’s not something that should be ignored. Do you go with X or Y, well what do you gain from X that you don’t from Y and what do you gain from Y and not X? Make the choice that benefits you the best.

As for the OP, they said no nade or bomb so… not sure why you’re trying to use the OP’s position as some sort of reassurance for your point.

And btw, the reason people use shrapnel grenade is because the power damage is better, the bleeds are extra. Poison grenades aren’t used because they aren’t as good of damage, and poison is only really wanted when there is heals to be countered.

The point that I was making, is that someone offered some insightful information and you essentially defecated on it.

Jerus.4350:

coglin.1867:

Just throwing this out there, but folks also underestimate the ability of bombs to keep vulnerability up with “steel packed powder” as Fire Bomb, Smoke Bomb, and Glue Bomb can trigger this trait on each pulse. That’s 12 stacks out of those 3 bombs alone. Sitting duck can add 5 more stacks for 8s with Glue bomb.

While spending time doing non damaging attacks >.<

That and it is not a well know fact that they trigger aspect off pulses, and that it was worth sharing with the OP.

Jerus.4350:

As for the OP, they said no nade or bomb so… not sure why you’re trying to use the OP’s position as some sort of reassurance for your point.

Then why do you mention nades right off the bat, in your first post in this thread? Do not berate other posters for doing nothing more then you did, after you did it.

Mhm, Fire bomb is worth mentioning, Smoke Bomb worth mentioning with the proper explanation that the lack of damage creates a pretty large cost to it’s use, and glue bomb apparently doesn’t act as advertised…

So please keep being offended about how I presented my point if that pleases you, but fact is Smoke bomb does 0 damage, great when you need blinds but not something you want to use on bosses with unshakable, and glue bomb only gives one vuln and unless you need the immoblize/cripple you’re better off dropping a real bomb.

And I’ll also point out that a bomb will give 1 stack vuln guaranteed, potentially 2 with Precise sights, so basically 1.5 vuln stacks vs 3, at the cost of potentially thousands of personal damage.

Fire bomb ticks multiple times with direct damage too and deals nearly the same damage as the aa. However burning and especially a fire field is always worth being cast. Also keep in mind that smoke AND fire bomb both stack multiple times vulnerability.

Xyonon.3987:

Fire bomb ticks multiple times with direct damage too and deals nearly the same damage as the aa. However burning and especially a fire field is always worth being cast. Also keep in mind that smoke AND fire bomb both stack multiple times vulnerability.

4 stacks from fire, 3 from smoke. THough I imagine with precise sights you could get more than that from fire, something like avg 6, while smoke still stays at 3.

Also you’re looking at ~half the direct damage from fire bomb, it has 4 ticks of about 1/8 the damage of your standard bomb.

In the end, the point is that Bomb isn’t overlooked. It’s not bad, but just not as good as nade. Bomb can be a good 2nd/3rd kit but there is also other option.

I dunno about the rest of you, but I consider the 300+ power+condition damage I can stack purely by my self, in an AoE to my party, with fire bomb alone, to be extremely beneficial to the overall damage output. Not sure why everyone keeps looking at it through the narrow view of its base damage alone, with no condition duration, while ignoring the might stacking value at the same time.

Might stacking certainly worth mentioning with bomb. Nearly 50% fire field up time. Combine that with FT and you’re able to easily blast every time you drop a fire field for 3 stacks every 10s, add in any additional blasts and yeah it’s nice. Personally I just lean on the War/Ele for might usually, but I still do a might rotation with my FT when I play.

And I don’t think people misunderstand bombs, personally I only pull them out for blinds/stealth, but might is certainly a good quality. Also a nice hard hitting power damage without aiming limitations that nades have, which is another nice little niche use for them. I’ve noticed blowing up doors I often have nades not hitting (one or two ticks of damage instead of the full 3) and I use them there (ascalon fractal comes to mind, and I alraedy have bombs out usually for the stealth/blinds). Also used to be great on the Elemental Source in the Snowblind Fractal till they screwed up the hitboxes on Objects (traited bomb blew up the swirl really quick).

Ohh and Glue bomb can be a nice AE CC for rushing swarms, again Ascalon fractal comes to mind, I’ll often drop a glue bomb as the warriors come in to catch them, followed by my FT blind to quickly blind them, then drop a smoke bomb to keep the blinds going, then move into my damage and blow them up.

I don’t hate bombs, I simply don’t feel it’s worth using smoke bomb for 1.5 extra stacks of vuln at the cost of potentially up to like 10k damage (bomb1 can hit that hard when all buffed up iirc).

coglin.1867:

I dunno about the rest of you, but I consider the 300+ power+condition damage I can stack purely by my self, in an AoE to my party, with fire bomb alone, to be extremely beneficial to the overall damage output. Not sure why everyone keeps looking at it through the narrow view of its base damage alone, with no condition duration, while ignoring the might stacking value at the same time.

It’s just that with PS Warrior and Elementalist it’s easy to get to 25 stack of might. And with Elementalist and Guardian, it’s easy to get perma burning.

And PS Warrior, Elementalist and Guardian are some of the most popular profession in dungeon.

So yes Bomb can have a LOT of benefice and it’s worth taking most of the time. But it’s not a blank check either, in a lot of situation it’s not that great since other profession can do it better. The engineer is best at adapting to the composition of a party to fill out the needs. Don’t have a thief? Take smoke bomb. Don’t have enough might? Blast fire field. Don’t have enough vulnerability? Use more nade, etc, etc.

There is no kit A > kit B in general.

Flamethrower is great with an ele for blast finishers and dmg, with PS war (wich is meta) it’s less awesome, but still great against encounters the war isn’t able to stay melee all the time. FT has a great damage output with it’s 2# but it’s not easy to use, especially if enemies are bigger than you and autoaim ruins the blast. Yet FT is much weaker than bombs in situations like ascalon fotm, where you want those wars blind and mobs may spread a bit at the statue and nades splash isnt big engouh, or you just want to cleave many siege weapons. Same goes for EG and mine.

If you stay on the same 3 utilities all the time, you are a bad enguineer.