Guild Wars 2

Before anyone get excited/depressed with the new changes they will bring us with Specialization, I think people should focus their attention on Speedy Kit – how it and Specialization will affect or ruin Engineer.

Speedy Kit is such an important trait, it’s probably the most crucial one too no matter what kind of build you play.

No Speedy Kit, no mobility, it’s that simple (or far inferior mobility compared to other classes).

While there is also the less popular choice Power Shoes, Anet has not mentioned about it at all during their talk of Specialization, it’s possible if they are going to remove it.

If people think having to spend 2 points into Tools for Speedy Kit no matter what at the moment is bad, just imagine how bad it is for having to always pick Tools as one of the core specialization no matter what.

In the ready up they told us Speedy Kit will merge with Kit Refinement and becomes a Master trait, BUT, really it doesn’t matter if it’s a Master, Adept, or even Minor trait – If you need mobility, you MUST have the Tools line to be 1 of the 3 core specializations at all time, and it’s pretty obvious of how this will damage our build diversity.

I’m not sure why no one seems to be talking about this, just thinking about it made me really uneasy…

Unless they can make Speedy Kit into our baseline ability, currently no matter what new and awesome stuff they may release cannot get me excited.

I play and love Engineer because very often you have more freedom than the other claaes, you can be whatever you want and create some really unique builds, so I think you can understand how downright depressed I get now when part of that freedom would be stripped – and it’s a very important one too.

I have no problem with the new system of things.

Yes, there will be lines that will be core because a lot of people may be too stubborn to change but, personally, I currently run infused precision with Air Runes or Pack Runes. No need for Speedy kits. Infi-Swif for the win.

While it’s true that you can just use Rune of Air/Pack for out of combat swiftness, that just means instead of getting limited in core specialization choices, you get limited in rune set choices, still doesn’t really solve the issue.

Blizt.3086:

While it’s true that you can just use Rune of Air/Pack for out of combat swiftness, that just means instead of getting limited in core specialization choices, you get limited in rune set choices, still doesn’t really solve the issue.

You have more options than you realize (Rocket Boots, Elixir Gun, Jump Shot, Super Speed/Slick Shoes) and if you can’t access or don’t want to use those because your build is more effective without those things, then your non-mobility is just a disadvantage your build has.

Necros who don’t use Warhorn or Spectral Walk don’t have a lot of mobility, Mesmers don’t have a lot of mobility without focus. I don’t see those guys just playing with those weapons/skills on every spec.

Hammer also seems to have a ton of mobility on it so that’s probably another option as well.

I can’t understand the point of merging together kit refinement and speedy kits to start with.
One provides highly situational abilities, the other a general purpose buff.
Putting them together means that either you use the situational ability at a correct time (and won’t use the general purpose buff in the meantime) or you use that and get the general purpose buff at will like before (but will waste the situational abilities).
And they also end up at master tier.
Seems more a nerf than anything to me.

In the live stream they mentioned that Power Shoes will be merged into the Robo Legs-Trait. So there would be an alternative. I’m curious what the “swiftness has greater effect” for Robo Legs means. +50% instead of +33%? With the Med Kit, Elixir B and/or some Runes = Superior Zoom Zoom.

Anyway I hope, that they will change Kit Refinement to be only active while in combat or give every Kit a single cd. I would not like radomly being put into combat while running around in PvE.

Dirame.8521:

You have more options than you realize (Rocket Boots, Elixir Gun, Jump Shot, Super Speed/Slick Shoes) and if you can’t access or don’t want to use those because your build is more effective without those things, then your non-mobility is just a disadvantage your build has.

Except they all have some shortcomings: Rocket Boots have a bug that rolls you into a different direction after flying off, the leap distance on Elixir Gun and Jump Shot are both rather short, and Super Speed being more of a stunbreaker, plus its duration is kitten short too.

Dirame.8521:

Necros who don’t use Warhorn or Spectral Walk don’t have a lot of mobility, Mesmers don’t have a lot of mobility without focus. I don’t see those guys just playing with those weapons/skills on every spec.

Hammer also seems to have a ton of mobility on it so that’s probably another option as well.

All of the example you provided are true, but do note they only need to make the sacrifice of one utility slot or weapon choice, compared to a slot of core specialization.

Also you gotta consider their vertical mobility too when they have access to teleport skills where Engi has none.

There is always a way how to do something with engi.

The problem is that you (like many others) assume that engis always need to go with kits in their utilities. If you need mobility there are many options both in traits (mentioned above) and additionally in skills. If speedy kits would be made baseline, every single engineer to the end of time would use kits. Try swtiftness with elexir on a hgh build or something. This is similar to mesmers not having mobility without focus, which noone still uses.

They merged in a 50% chance to proc 5 sec swiftness on crit trait in Firearms (Precise Sights + Infused Precision). So you will have at least some swiftness stacking on you while in combat, but this should be buffed. If you are roaming in WvW, it will be more lengthy to traverse areas unless they return Power Shoes to Inventions as an alternative to Speedy Kits.

Swiftness while having a regeneration boon? Might be something to consider if it’s an absolute no to Power Shoes returning.

don’t cry. the changes for engi and war was how to say BEST of all classes.

Start dancing bro!

Curious if Robo Legs will have the 25% runspeed that seems to be missing. If it does I don’t see a problem. If it doesn’t I understand your concern. Overall I’m more worried about kit refinement getting us in combat than being forced into tools though.

Quadox.7834:

The problem is that you (like many others) assume that engis always need to go with kits in their utilities. If you need mobility there are many options both in traits (mentioned above) and additionally in skills. If speedy kits would be made baseline, every single engineer to the end of time would use kits. Try swtiftness with elexir on a hgh build or something. This is similar to mesmers not having mobility without focus, which noone still uses.

But you can’t deny kit is one of Engineer’s feature as well as our most distinguishing characteristic. In fact, kit is the reason why I fell in love with the class since beta weekend and have main’ed it since then.

HGH build…it’s so outdated despite being still usable, also I disagree with this being similar with mesmer. Mesmer may not get swiftness easy like Engineer, but they still has the ever useful Blink and Portal to make up for that.

And who said no mesmer still use focus? You can still see quite a few of them in PvP, used not only for swiftness but their pull effect too.

Jerus.4350:

Curious if Robo Legs will have the 25% runspeed that seems to be missing. If it does I don’t see a problem. If it doesn’t I understand your concern. Overall I’m more worried about kit refinement getting us in combat than being forced into tools though.

You don’t have to worry about Kit Refinement putting you into combat because even at the moment it will only trigger the effect while you’re already in combat.

Incorrect. Go to lions arch, put kit refinement on, pop your bomb kit and watch the magnet bomb go off. I made sure to test it the second I saw the announcement

Blizt.3086:

You don’t have to worry about Kit Refinement putting you into combat because even at the moment it will only trigger the effect while you’re already in combat.

This is wrong. It procs both in and out of combat. One of the worst aspects of this, is that if you are using it with Speedy Kits, it will often aggro NPC creature while crossing the WvW map.

Jerus.4350:

Incorrect. Go to lions arch, put kit refinement on, pop your bomb kit and watch the magnet bomb go off. I made sure to test it the second I saw the announcement

That’s weird, the last time I tested it the effect will only appear when I’m in combat. But anyway you would still be out of combat when it triggers, unless some enemy happen to step on the mine/glue you left :/

Ignoring the super stupid advice of “just change your whole utility bar man..it doesn’t matter you are useless when it comes to actually fighting something!” speedy kits should be included in base class mechanics. It’s not only mobility it’s also great synergy with invigorating speed which is a huge part of the sustain.

Do we have evidence that every other profession has access to excess swiftness? Otherwise it seemed to me that they were trying to scale back infinite swiftness from professions.

Do we have confirmation that it is not going to be one of the “to be determined” traits or merged with one of those?

Blizt.3086:

Dirame.8521:

You have more options than you realize (Rocket Boots, Elixir Gun, Jump Shot, Super Speed/Slick Shoes) and if you can’t access or don’t want to use those because your build is more effective without those things, then your non-mobility is just a disadvantage your build has.

Except they all have some shortcomings: Rocket Boots have a bug that rolls you into a different direction after flying off, the leap distance on Elixir Gun and Jump Shot are both rather short, and Super Speed being more of a stunbreaker, plus its duration is kitten short too.

When was the last time you had rocket boots bug that rolled you in the wrong direction? I haven’t seen that bug in 2-3 updates.

Happened to me last night

Jerus.4350:

Happened to me last night

Really? That’s interesting. I have been playing several days a week for several hours on each day and not seen that at all. I have only had the problem in which I will not continue to run after using them.

Anyone else have issues with rolling in a direction other then the direction that you originally launched?

I almost never use rocket boots anymore, almost only for swamp fractal to quickly jump through an open gap before it closes. I will say I’ve been very laggy all weekend, so /shrug that may play a part?

@robertul
I know right…and after the specialization update, Protection Injection and Invigorating Speed will be in the same tier, so they can’t be selected together anymore too.

@coglin
I don’t use Rocket Boot in PvP, but I do use it in my everyday PvE build, I can tell you that the bug still appears out of nowhere sometimes.

Blizt.3086:

@robertul
I know right…and after the specialization update, Protection Injection and Invigorating Speed will be in the same tier, so they can’t be selected together anymore too.

@coglin
I don’t use Rocket Boot in PvP, but I do use it in my everyday PvE build, I can tell you that the bug still appears out of nowhere sometimes.

I understand. I was simply asking if anyone else can report if they have also had issues with it. I use them frequently in WvW. Haven’t had an issue since a few updates ago. I am genuinely curious as to what would cause our varying experiences.

My honest guess is it’s lag induced. I know I’ll get more reverse leaps/rushes when I’m having lag issues.

Your also having continued issues with it Jerus?

Rocket boots, I can’t call it continued issues as I only use it in very select areas, and not nearly often enough to call anything continued, but yes I’ve seen it here and there if I remember (I know it did it to me last night). I do regularly get the leap/rush issues with other professions though. I always figured they were the same type of issue. Figured maybe a hiccup in the connection caused you to get mixed up where the server had you in one spot and you were sending that you were in a further spot and when it processes it maybe reverses the direction of travel? /shrug just crazy guesses as to how it happens.

Whatever the cause is, as long as the bug exists, it’s still a headache to deal with because you don’t know when it might happen :/

Other than rolling backward when you’re trying to flee from enemies, the worst timing is that when you could’ve flied over a cliff in WvW, it rolls you backward so you fell to death x_x

And @coglin, I apologize if my previous post sounded a bit rude, was too eager to prove a point :/

Remember that medkit provides descent swiftness uptime as well. Maybe it will be worth using after the redesign, maybe not. Let the update take place and we will see.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

Remember that medkit provides descent swiftness uptime as well. Maybe it will be worth using after the redesign, maybe not. Let the update take place and we will see.

They would have to make it really good to get people to drop Healing Turret then, especially since that Engineer will be getting many more blast finishers, the value of Healing Turret will only go up not down.

Blizt.3086:

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

Remember that medkit provides descent swiftness uptime as well. Maybe it will be worth using after the redesign, maybe not. Let the update take place and we will see.

They would have to make it really good to get people to drop Healing Turret then, especially since that Engineer will be getting many more blast finishers, the value of Healing Turret will only go up not down.

Med Kit also gets quickness (without drawbacks) on its 3. And we don’t know exactly how 1 and 2 work.

And with the blast on heal trait, you can trigger a blast finisher every time the trait is off its internal cooldown.

As long as they can find some other appropriate mobility options to get engineers, it should be ok. They’re still doing a ton of work on overhauling the engineer stuff, so we still need more information about what exactly the changes are going to be.

Also, speedy kits was always an exceptionally powerful minor trait. Everyone knows it, which is why almost every build uses it. This is exacerbated by the engineer’s sheer dependence on kits. I believe the only reason they never altered it is because they knew it would drastically lower the power of engineers across the board since there hasn’t really been any other very accessible mobility options.

Oddly enough, I use an elixir build without speedy kits currently. However, with the current form of the changes, cleaning formula 409 is being tossed into tools for some odd reason, so I’ll probably end up with speedy kits on my build now… weird turn of events. Assuming it stays that way, of course.

Yamsandjams.3267:

As long as they can find some other appropriate mobility options to get engineers, it should be ok. They’re still doing a ton of work on overhauling the engineer stuff, so we still need more information about what exactly the changes are going to be.

Also, speedy kits was always an exceptionally powerful minor trait. Everyone knows it, which is why almost every build uses it. This is exacerbated by the engineer’s sheer dependence on kits. I believe the only reason they never altered it is because they knew it would drastically lower the power of engineers across the board since there hasn’t really been any other very accessible mobility options.

Oddly enough, I use an elixir build without speedy kits currently. However, with the current form of the changes, cleaning formula 409 is being tossed into tools for some odd reason, so I’ll probably end up with speedy kits on my build now… weird turn of events. Assuming it stays that way, of course.

Hopefully… since it looks like eng will be taking a hit to survivability and mobility atm with no longer being able to grab swiftness on swap and vigor on swap as easily.

I’m also wondering about the changes to burning/IP and I hope it’s not a large dps hit as well since that would basically mean a nerf in 3 departments.

It all remains to be seen though.

Aberrant.6749:

Hopefully… since it looks like eng will be taking a hit to survivability and mobility atm with no longer being able to grab swiftness on swap and vigor on swap as easily.

I honestly can’t bring myself to agree with this bit.

Looking over the proposed options at this stage, getting vigor + swiftness on kit swap are exactly as easy to get.

any 6/4/4 build falls in line with little change…

even hybrids that used IP in explosives can still get it in firearms without the (almost) obligatory grenade kit & traits as the mortar kit will (<— read as “might”) be able to fill that role (that would be 0/6/0/6/6)…

…that is, however, if the changes to the way burning stacks makes 1 application of burn worth while. It might turn out to be a waste on it’s own yet.

TL:DR – just as easy as it’s alwats been, it just limits you to one more speshuleyezashun!

can we protest this…i rather like the speedy kit invigorating speed combo i got going for me