Guild Wars 2

Looking at the Engineer’s traits, under Tools rank10 there’s a trait called “Speedy Kits”. It grants 5 seconds of swiftness, carries a cooldown of 5 seconds and activates once you equip a kit.

Why is it that we need to reequip the kit to gain the bonus, if it’s cooldown is as long as it’s effect? Why not just have it be permanent, as long as you’re carrying a kit? It seems like a hassle to get out of and into a kit to regain the bonus to speed, instead of just having it on all the time.

Since the kits don’t exactly benefit from equipped weapons or gain their bonuses, why would we need to de&re-equip for a boost that offsets this disadvantage, especially after 10 trait points spent to get it?

i second that, also i discovered a bug while using this, grenade kit swaps instantly ignoring its 1 sec cooldown while other kits are a bit slower to re-equip.

Maybe they wanted the trait to be like that, so you can use and benefit from the swiftness without using a kit but a weapon set.

Because there needs to be some kind of trade off for such an easy access to perma swiftness.

coglin.1496:

Because there needs to be some kind of trade off for such an easy access to perma swiftness.

Thieves’ trade off for perma-near-swiftness is the fact that the thing that grants it occupies one utility slot – it’s a signet that gives +25% speed. They aren’t hindered for it in any other way and can use the signet’s active to shadowstep to their opponent.

In contrast, Engineers lose the damage bonus a weapon provides, as well as any weapon-based bonuses, like precision or power and sigil upgrades. The kit also uses up a utility (or healing, if we’re talking medkit) slot and you have to specifically activate it to gain the bonus, every 5 seconds.

If one loses little and the other loses a lot in the same circumstances, then that’s kind of an imbalance. Is it wrong to ask for a little less mindless button-mashing every 5 seconds?

If you use the first aid kit you can literally get permaswiftness as the #5 kit fills the gaps between switching. Considering swiftness is faster than any passive movement gain other classes get, it seems a fair trade as is.

What does a thief signet have to do with engineers?

Anyone can cherry pick the best option for something from a particular class and compare it to another, some classes will be slightly better then others at certain things.

By this standard, we should make a thread demanding for 100 blades and eviscerate damage.

Then lets demand rangers range.

Oh wait, after that lets make another thread demanding water attuned ele’s cond. removal.

The we can demand thiefs burst damage.

I mean come on. If the best you can do is argue that theif has a signet that gives a speed boost, then what is there to complain about?

You argue that we lose a utility slot? Doesn’t the thief as well? We can chose from a list of kits that are varying and use full and they have to take a very specific signet

Shimond.2478:

If you use the first aid kit you can literally get permaswiftness as the #5 kit fills the gaps between switching. Considering swiftness is faster than any passive movement gain other classes get, it seems a fair trade as is.

I just addressed that… Other classes don’t get penalties that engineers do when they equip a kit, and they certainly don’t need to mash buttons every 5 seconds to keep it up.

coglin.1496:

What does a thief signet have to do with engineers?

Anyone can cherry pick the best option for something from a particular class and compare it to another, some classes will be slightly better then others at certain things.

By this standard, we should make a thread demanding for 100 blades and eviscerate damage.

Then lets demand rangers range.

Oh wait, after that lets make another thread demanding water attuned ele’s cond. removal.

The we can demand thiefs burst damage.

I mean come on. If the best you can do is argue that theif has a signet that gives a speed boost, then what is there to complain about?

You argue that we lose a utility slot? Doesn’t the thief as well? We can chose from a list of kits that are varying and use full and they have to take a very specific signet

The signet comparison was to point out how much more engineers have to sacrifice to gain a boost to speed and the annoyance of trying to keep that boost up.

It’s not cherry-picking the best option for something, it’s a sound comparison. Thieves for instance have a version of the hundred blades, that stuns, does less damage,but can be chained. You could compare those two, but in this case – I’m comparing Engineer’s speed boost to the Thieves’.

Engineers don’t need a rangers’ range, they already have it and more.

Lastly, quit kittening and read the whole thing. Is that too much to ask? Because you’re asking the most ridiculous things “you argue that we lose a utility slot?”, that’s bullkitten. I said that both classes lose a slot, but that’s it for the Thief, while the Engineer loses damage/stat/sigil buffs, as well as having to mash buttons every 5 seconds to keep up the speed.

Frankly, I don’t care if the speed boost gets lowered to 25% or so, as long as it becomes a perma while using a kit. 8% isn’t that much.

Yeah, your comparing the thief signet to engineer to “claim” we need to sacrifice more. Your comparing a a specific signet on a specific class, which is about as cherry picking as you can get. We have a faster permanent speed boost then they do.

We can use a rune of centaur set and not even invest in the trait and get 10s of swiftness just for swapping in and out of med kit. Having permaswift with the least sacrifice of all classes.

I’m not saying that thieves should sacrifice more, I’m saying that Engineers sacrifice too much.
While the 5 second effect, 5 second cooldown speed perk is theoretically permanent, it forces you to mash buttons to keep it up. I just want the button mashing removed. There is no reason to force us to do it other then annoy and inconvenience us.
Also, how does sacrificing a third of your attack power to gain speed count as the smallest sacrifice?

Due to the fact that you do not retain the 33% speed boost of swiftness in combat, Why would you lose a third of your attack? If your attempting to use the med kit to kill your enemy, the need to swap for speed is the least of your worries.

What do you mean “do not retain”? Swiftness does work in combat, but only while you’re running forward or isometrically-forward. Spamming kit-swaps every 5 seconds in combat is a hassle to say the least.

Comparing it to the Thief signet is silly. They sacrifice far more. A whole utility skill.

We sacrifice.. a trait slot? We do not sacrifice a kit slot. You do not take Speedy Kits for the sake of having perma-swiftness. You take it when you are a kit-based engineer who uses kits often. I’m a kit-based engineer and I don’t regard any of my kits as only being useful to proc Speedy Kits.

VakarisJ.5619:

What do you mean “do not retain”? Swiftness does work in combat, but only while you’re running forward or isometrically-forward. Spamming kit-swaps every 5 seconds in combat is a hassle to say the least.

I agree, kit swapping for world traveling in order to get swiftness is worth it for the hassle but when it comes to combat…. you’re better off taking the swiftness on crit otherwise you’re going to find yourself making mistakes. It’s just inevitable that you at some point will be focusing on your swiftness buff too much at the cost of good tactics or you’ll just end up interupting your own attacks to swap kits.

I don’t want to just sit back and have the game played for me but during extended periods of play swapping kits every 5-10 seconds can get tiresome.

Gilgamesh.2561:

Comparing it to the Thief signet is silly. They sacrifice far more. A whole utility skill.

We sacrifice.. a trait slot?

A trait slot, 10 trait points, a utility/healing slot, a third of our attackpower and our nerves every 5 seconds.

Alt-1-Alt-1-Alt-1-Alt-1-Alt-1-Alt-1 My fingers hurt But I love the speed.

You mean your nerves. It is not very intelligent to assume you can claim it bothers everyone, just because it bothers you.

Coming from guardian where the closest thing I have is being able to drop a symbol I have to walk in (which sometimes bugs and doesn’t proc even then) to get swiftness for 8s every 15s…I love speedy kits.

coglin.1496:

You mean your nerves. It is not very intelligent to assume you can claim it bothers everyone, just because it bothers you.

You mean some people’s nerves. It is not very intelligent to assume you can claim it bothers only me, just because it bothers only some.

…Kitten that was broken English…

Shimond.2478:

Coming from guardian where the closest thing I have is being able to drop a symbol I have to walk in (which sometimes bugs and doesn’t proc even then) to get swiftness for 8s every 15s…I love speedy kits.

Yeah, we have that too – medkit’s 5th skill. Every 20 seconds for 10 seconds. The difference is, that it can’t be a permanent bonus, because the cooldown’s longer then the effect. When cooldown is shorter, or the same as, the effect, then there’s no reason for it to be activated ability, especially when you need 2 keystrokes to reactivate the boost every 5 seconds.

It is pretty annoying to have to keep flipping kits to keep it going…lord knows how many times I have pressed a button expecting a nade to go off and I would blast myself backwards cause I had rifle up.

It’s so tough to hit your kit twice when you want swiftness! OMG Anet!

Guy above me just mashes it instead of giving it a simple double tap and ends up in rifle when he wanted to be in grenade. IT’s your fault he can’t figure out these simple things Anet! ARggggggggggg!

/sarcasm

Honestly, engineers are lucky to be able to attain perma swiftness with a single low-level trait. The way I see it, the swiftness is just a bonus and not something to be over focused on in the heat of battle. You shouldn’t be in a fight thinking “oh, I need my swiftness boost. Time to change kits.” Instead, it should be more like “This situation calls for me changing kits. Oh look! A swiftness buff!” Helpful in a fight, but not vital.

And yet, even when you aren’t fighting it’s a pain in the kitten to doubletap every 5 seconds while traveling. In a fight, if you’re using kits, like bombs or nades, then swiftness will be your focus the entire time, while at the same time aiming nades or looking how to trick your opponent into stepping into your mine and thinking where to go yourself. The Engineer already has a high skill-cap. That is fine, but it shouldn’t be annoying at the same time.

You also realize that it’s perma vigor too right? This is the strongest thing the engineer has right now.

Yeah, let’s just give them baseline perma swiftness and vigor. That sounds fair.

This is great the way it is. This thread on the other hand, is just silly.

Not to mention that with a rune of centaur set, we can do the same thing without even using the trait.

Recursivision.2367:

You also realize that it’s perma vigor too right? This is the strongest thing the engineer has right now.

Yeah, let’s just give them baseline perma swiftness and vigor. That sounds fair.

This is great the way it is. This thread on the other hand, is just silly.

Personally, I can’t fit the vigor into my build. I want extra supplies, precise sights and grenadier, leaving me with 10 points to spend as needed – either more toughness or speedy kits. Currently – the plan’s more thoughness, because that means 15% damage boost + range boost to turrets, that don’t require me to spam keys 24 times per minute just to keep up swiftness for that long, to merely make use of my trait.

coglin.1496:

Not to mention that with a rune of centaur set, we can do the same thing without even using the trait.

And for those of us, who spend the 6 sigil slots on precision and critical damage instead of power and swiftness duration?

I don’t get it. We only need 10 points and tools for perma-swiftness while every other class needs multiple skills and +boon duration, or entire rune sets for that specific purpose. Why is everyone acting like it’s hard to keep pressing a single button anyways? If you slot multiple kits, odds are you’ll be switching enough anyways in combat. If you don’t have enough kits to make this work, or if you don’t find youself switching kits often, don’t bring speedy kits. Swiftness isn’t an end-all factor to the outcome of a fight. There is a reason the trait is such a low level one.

VakarisJ.5619:

And for those of us, who spend the 6 sigil slots on precision and critical damage instead of power and swiftness duration?

Every set of runes is not for everyone and every build, I was simply pointing out that it is an option.

What the OP is saying is that Anet has currently chosen to give Engi’s access to Perma-Swiftness. We can obtain it at the cost of button mashing constantly. I think in combat, this can be a tactical decision, though for what it is, I think it’s a crappy way to go about it for a tactical decision.

Out of combat, it’s simply annoying. There’s no tactics, there’s just mashing to move faster. What I’d like to see is it changed so that out of combat, holding a kit grants swiftness. In combat whenever you swap a kit, it grants the swiftness/vigor. It makes it easier on us out of combat, convenient, and still a tactical decision in combat.

It’s so tough to hit your kit twice when you want swiftness! OMG Anet!

Guy above me just mashes it instead of giving it a simple double tap and ends up in rifle when he wanted to be in grenade. IT’s your fault he can’t figure out these simple things Anet! ARggggggggggg!

Sorry I am not as “gifted” as you seem to think you are.

For what it is worth I am talking about out of combat.

You have trouble hitting the button every 5 second out of combat?

I can understand the point.

Maybe make speedy kits apply swiftness automatically every 5 seconds, if you have a kit equipped. Which, with the vigor trait would give it full uptime.

Its already pretty easy to get full uptime, with boon duration, you are given some reprieve regarding time.

I don’t believe that unnecessary buttom mashing, which achieves nothing, should remain if it does not have to. This does not have to exist, and could be simpler.

If button mashing got different results, than if it were automated, then I would disagree but currently, automated swiftness would give the same results as button mashing, so in my eyes, button mashing ought to go.

Lyuben.2613:

Maybe make speedy kits apply swiftness automatically every 5 seconds, if you have a kit equipped. Which, with the vigor trait would give it full uptime.

If you’re going to do that you might as well just remove the timer on it and say when you have a kit equipped you move 33% faster.

Honestly you guys are complaining about being able to do with a tiny amount of work what no other class can. Nobody else gets perma swiftness as an option.

If you’re going to do that you might as well just remove the timer on it and say when you have a kit equipped you move 33% faster.
Honestly you guys are complaining about being able to do with a tiny amount of work what no other class can. Nobody else gets perma swiftness as an option.

That’s fine. We’re not comparing the other people. What we’re saying is that it’s silly button mashing that gives no tactical value outside of combat. Engineers don’t have any way to match thieves burst, so should the thieves have to suddenly go through an annoying arbitrary mechanic to achieve that burst? No. It should be -fun-. The end goal is -fun-. Granted, some people may truly enjoy swapping kits every 5 seconds out of combat to maintain that swiftness buff.

The OP, and a few others, think it’s a silly way to gate the mechanic. It’s not rewarding a better playstyle, it’s not an increased skillcap, it’s mashing a button to achieve something that out of combat doesn’t really matter all that much besides being a nice convenient perk for being an Engineer and traited that way. Unless this was somehow going to be a game breaking and ridiculously powerful thing, I’m not seeing a particularly legitimate mechanical or balance prone reason why out of combat we simply don’t get the swiftness. If it’s because ’It’d make the class more convenient and easier to play’ well that’s a stupid reason. Making something arbitrarily harder is not a good reason to do anything.

Since it doesn’t seem as if anyone mentioned it specifically: If you have Med-Kit equipped, you don’t have to drop the kit and reequip to get the swiftness buff again. Just press “5” again. In other words, there is no double-tapping to activate, unless the player is so incompetent that they don’t know when to switch to their gun/damage kit when fighting that they require themselves to have one equipped at all times.

Obviously, during combat, maintaining Swiftness while engaging takes a little more work (although unless using the tool-kit to melee, completely unnecessary). I choose to see Speedy Kits as a travel buff. Personally, I’m so used to hitting “5” half a second before the buff ends, that I don’t even consider it anymore, so at least I know I have a hassle free perma-switfness. If you are going to be in combat a lot and are using kits, Kit Refinement is very useful as well, and there is no cost or lost time to switch them.

Dont change the traits please. Letting it apply when you equip a kit allows me to pop into my med kit, get a stack of vigor and swiftness, then hop right back out. If they took out the kit swap part they’d probly make it only apply when you have the kit equipped

Draconus.9823:

Obviously, during combat, maintaining Swiftness while engaging takes a little more work (although unless using the tool-kit to melee, completely unnecessary). I choose to see Speedy Kits as a travel buff. Personally, I’m so used to hitting “5” half a second before the buff ends, that I don’t even consider it anymore, so at least I know I have a hassle free perma-switfness. If you are going to be in combat a lot and are using kits, Kit Refinement is very useful as well, and there is no cost or lost time to switch them.

It seems you have a learning disability, because the fact that the medkit doesn’t unequip when you press it’s key when it’s equipped, that clearly states “Stow Med Kit”, with a description of “Stow your med kit.”, is a bug and it will be fixed with the plethora of other engineer bugs, that Anet hasn’t yet had a chance to address.

Draconus.9823:

Obviously, during combat, maintaining Swiftness while engaging takes a little more work (although unless using the tool-kit to melee, completely unnecessary). I choose to see Speedy Kits as a travel buff. Personally, I’m so used to hitting “5” half a second before the buff ends, that I don’t even consider it anymore, so at least I know I have a hassle free perma-switfness. If you are going to be in combat a lot and are using kits, Kit Refinement is very useful as well, and there is no cost or lost time to switch them.

Hitting the (bugged) key to reequip your medkit every 5 seconds is still unnecessary complexity. It’s extremely inconvenient to have to hit that button every 5 seconds, if it were every 15 or 20 seconds, then it would make it less of an issue, but the optimal solution here, is to make it permanent altogether, while you have the kit equipped.

AbduktedTemplar.9453:

Dont change the traits please. Letting it apply when you equip a kit allows me to pop into my med kit, get a stack of vigor and swiftness, then hop right back out. If they took out the kit swap part they’d probly make it only apply when you have the kit equipped

Yes, that’s the whole point of that trait and that’s exactly what we’re asking for. It isn’t called “Speedy Kit Activation”, it’s called “Speedy Kits”.

No it is not unnecessary. It is for one a tradeoff. If it is that overly complicated, feel free not to use it. The rest of us need it as it is to trigger “invigorating speed”. It seems a great many of want to destroy our option to use this trait to trigger vigor simply out of your self indulgent, pure laziness.

Your demanding a change that will harm the a system that effects various option and traits, taking away from a great many others game play, simply because because your too lazy to tape a button, or heaven forbid make a macro to do it for you when you travel.

It is one thing to have a issue with a real problem. It is another to cry and complain about the ability to have unlimited swiftness because you have to trigger it.

It does not make it overly complicated, it makes it unnecessarily complicated. Making Speedy Kits permanent would not, in any way, change the Invigorating Speed trait. It would work exactly as it does now – whenever you would gain swiftness, you would gain 5 seconds of vigor.

If Speedy Kits were adjusted not to require buttonmashing to keep up, you would still have to stow your kit and reactivate it to regain the 5 seconds of vigor that triggers when swiftness is gained. If you get 10 seconds of swiftness, you only get 5 seconds of vigor – it doesn’t retrigger after the initial 5 seconds of the said swiftness pass.

It’s one issue to be an elitist, it’s an other to force everyone else, wanting to use the trait without the annoyance, to be elitists as well.

Unnecessarily complicated, no. Ridiculously lazy, yes.

Just how is it lazy not to have to press “play” twice on a VCR every 5 seconds to continue watching a movie? Running from point A to point B might as well be a movie, because nothing interesting happens and you barely have to do anything the entire time.

Soon you’ll say that entering our username and password every minute to keep playing is a valid strategy to stop account hacking or whatever.

This is not a VCR. It is a traited option that directly effects other traits and abilities. If you change it for your pure laziness, it effects the traits the rest of us use in conjunction with it.

It is in no way comparable to a VCR, and your weird analogy with the username/password doesn’t even make sense. It is about as logical as claiming the pace that tire tread wears out is directly related to what color the car is.

It seems to me you’re clinging to any sliver of elitist nonsence ever since you lost your vigor argument…

While it affects other traits, I have addressed it before – only it’s activation does, meaning you’d still have to put away and pull out a kit to gain the bonuses associated. This minor change would only impact how fun it is to travel and how annoying it is to keep it up during combat, while you’re busy doing a ton of other things.

If my analogies don’t make sense to you, then you’re either trolling or are extremely thick – I couldn’t have put those simpler. I even explained that analogy and yet you still attack that with your flawed logic.

Can’t we get anyone in authority in here quicker? This topic is descending into “I’m right, you’re wrong” and I would like to hear the opinion of someone whose actually matters.

Before this thread derails completely into a flamewar, im closing it. Please, help us keep these forums a friendly and organised place by posting in the right tone and the proper forums