Guild Wars 2

Hello,

So basically i made this thread to discuss the state of the engineer post patch. I am mainly speaking from a tPvP perspective.

With the huge nerf to Shield 5 and kind of “deleting” elixir R (and HUGE elixir S nerf before that), my Engineer is more vulnerable than ever.

We Engineers already suffered from having low survivability, with those nerfs, engineers are currently in a bad position in my opinion. Anything that isn’t bunker has VERY little survivability.

This puts the Engi class in a bad position in tPvP in my opinion, what are your thoughts?

I did a some testing yesterday with the new rifle. But none of the setup I tried was competitive to HGH nade(even after nerf).
The only viable build with rifle in my opinion remain to SD build.

Pardon my bad eng btw.

The problem with HGH now is that it doesnt have a good stunbreak anymore.. elix S sucks, and Elix R doesnt break stun, and quickness Elixir sucks…

Agree, but this is a Tpvp we’re discussing here. Most of the time HGH engi just throw nade from high place and run along with teammate as ani-bunker/attacker. So at least HGH remain viable if you play smart.
However, I feel like I’m being forced to put at least 20 point in Alchemy for “Backpack Regeneration” for sustain and 10 point in tools for “Speedy Kit” (pro invigorating speed) in order to be a moderately team fighter.

Even before patch Top rated engi’s had started to move away from hgh builds. you can see the builds here http://forums.intothemists.com/index.php?/topic/46-top-gw2-tournament-builds/

After the patch with so many buffs and only one major nerf (elixir r) a ridiculous amount of builds are now viable. We now have a stun break on elixir, kit, gadget, and turret… any play style is somewhat viable atm, just have to figure out the nitty gritty and what you want to accomplish.

Great time to be an engi imo.

Dolt.2731:

Even before patch Top rated engi’s had started to move away from hgh builds. you can see the builds here http://forums.intothemists.com/index.php?/topic/46-top-gw2-tournament-builds/

After the patch with so many buffs and only one major nerf (elixir r) a ridiculous amount of builds are now viable. We now have a stun break on elixir, kit, gadget, and turret… any play style is somewhat viable atm, just have to figure out the nitty gritty and what you want to accomplish.

Great time to be an engi imo.

Actually 2 major nerfs, the nerf to Shield 5 is very big, and the stunbreaks we got aren’t really good because they dont add to our survivability like Elix R did.

So from my perspective, other classes (necro, mesmer, warrior for eg) got buffed AGAINST us, while our survivability got reduced, i feel like Engis are gonna take the old Necromancer place..

Ummm Shield 5 got buffed… full 2 second block and can still throw for the daze; meaning i can stun multiple people and not just 1 and still throw my shield at the end of it’s duration!! How is this a nerf??

Yeah necs and wars got buffed, they needed it. Will not be replaced be necs, we bring to much utility to the table, no one can burn like we do and We have soooooooooooooo much cc. Not to mention amazing group support with healing turret, eg, etc.

Stun breakers we have are amazing btw (outside of elixir s oddly) and with the rocket boots change we are more mobile than anyone now. Honestly; what they took from us is not that big of a deal… what they gave us is a huge kitten deal. Adapt and prosper.

We used to press Shield 5, attack with pistol (with shield active), then throw shield at the end.
Now we can’t do it and that’s the nerf we were talking about…
Also Shield can’t pass through wall post patch.

one word: awesome!

Rocket boots are so amazing.
Elixir gun, my selfdesired must have, has a stunbreaker now.
There are hundreds of builds i test atm.

But so far the elixir-gun/rocketboots + anything is the best for me.
i prefer bombs for constant combomadness. I once tried a hgh build but it sucked so hard and failed because im used to have 3-4 kits.

they totally remove engi from tpvp with last patch. first elixir s, now elixir r. having elixir r now is like having one empty utility slot. engi not needed anymore. necros destroying everyone as condi builds. elixir r was one of the reasons why engi was valuble. also shield 5 got killed. yes now you can make hundred useless builds with turret stunbreakers and other “buffs”. personally i was never crying on forums about previous nerfs but now i just say goodbye. i am boored that anet nerfing every valuble engi build. GG

Dolt.2731:

Even before patch Top rated engi’s had started to move away from hgh builds. you can see the builds here http://forums.intothemists.com/index.php?/topic/46-top-gw2-tournament-builds/

Checked all Engie builds there. There’s more HGH + Grenadier builds (minor variations) than other flavours. Most common build across teams was: Grenades, Elixir B and Elixir R.

As this is pre-patch list, let’s see if loosing R will force some change.

There’s a huge fail with ability to counter condition builds with Automated Response. With recent nerf, not mentioned in patch notes, it doesn’t cleanse conditions at 25% hp, so for grandmaster trait it works a bit like elixir S trait for engi bunker. You can’t be viable, because necro can counter every action you make.

Crazy, cause the “new” engineers just won the SOAC profession tournament, at least NA, perhaps EU too.

Let’s be clear about Shield #5. I absolutely love the shield, and I love how it used to work. But it was broken. No other channeling skill in the game also allows you to continue on with other skills. It did not get nerfed, it got fixed.

Then consider the other way it was changed. It now blocks both melee and ranged attacks for the full duration. It won’t discharge after a melee hits you a split second after you use the skill, making it so you can’t throw it where you wanted to. This is a huge buff to the skill.

I have moved on to rifle for the time being, but not at all because of this skill. Because gadgets which I’ve always liked (but haven’t been able to really use) are much better now. Shield #5 is still very good.

My spec got buffed…again.

Eviator.9746:

Crazy, cause the “new” engineers just won the SOAC profession tournament, at least NA, perhaps EU too.

Warriors won one too some time ago. I suppose they were fine back then, right?

The shield one was definitely a nerf, anyway. But not regarding the fix, but mostly because of the reduced stun duration.
Melee attacks were blocked anyway in almost all cases – the offender was stunned for a couple seconds. Now it is better only if there are many people attacking you at the same time…but if there are all those people focusing on you, you’re screwed anyway even if you stun them for a single second.

Manuhell.2759:

Warriors won one too some time ago. I suppose they were fine back then, right?

When the OP says “This puts the Engi class in a bad position in tPvP in my opinion”, a day or two after the new engis won a pretty big tournament, I start to question the logic.

Eviator.9746:

Manuhell.2759:

Warriors won one too some time ago. I suppose they were fine back then, right?

When the OP says “This puts the Engi class in a bad position in tPvP in my opinion”, a day or two after the new engis won a pretty big tournament, I start to question the logic.

I’ll repeat myself: warriors were able to win that tournament as well in the past. Did that meant they were powerful and almighty at that time?
No, they weren’t, exactly as they aren’t now.
Simply put, that tournament doesn’t prove anything.

Manuhell.2759:

I’ll repeat myself: warriors were able to win that tournament as well in the past. Did that meant they were powerful and almighty at that time?
No, they weren’t, exactly as they aren’t now.
Simply put, that tournament doesn’t prove anything.

Oh, well okay. I guess engi sucks now.

Nix.3152:

they totally remove engi from tpvp with last patch. first elixir s, now elixir r. having elixir r now is like having one empty utility slot. engi not needed anymore. necros destroying everyone as condi builds. elixir r was one of the reasons why engi was valuble. also shield 5 got killed. yes now you can make hundred useless builds with turret stunbreakers and other “buffs”. personally i was never crying on forums about previous nerfs but now i just say goodbye. i am boored that anet nerfing every valuble engi build. GG

How do they remove us from tPvP? From my personal experience, I rock it in tPvP. And I have noticed many other engineers are playing well too.

Khrimace.6298:

Nix.3152:

they totally remove engi from tpvp with last patch. first elixir s, now elixir r. having elixir r now is like having one empty utility slot. engi not needed anymore. necros destroying everyone as condi builds. elixir r was one of the reasons why engi was valuble. also shield 5 got killed. yes now you can make hundred useless builds with turret stunbreakers and other “buffs”. personally i was never crying on forums about previous nerfs but now i just say goodbye. i am boored that anet nerfing every valuble engi build. GG

How do they remove us from tPvP? From my personal experience, I rock it in tPvP. And I have noticed many other engineers are playing well too.

this is just your personal experience. and this experience is kinda bad if you think that engi is now good in spvp/wvw. try to play with some organized groups in spvp, or with better players than rank 1.

Engineer is largely untouched in tPvP, seeing as your hand was never forced to include Elixir R, or a shield offhand.

Here are the top 2 details, bullet form, on how the old Engineer tPvP Meta has been affected, and what to do about it.

• #1 – Shield 5 – going from a 3s channelled ranged block, with a 2 second (one time) melee stun, to a 2s channelled full block, with a 1 second (unlimited) melee stun.

^Projectile avoidance is basically down by a second, but defense against multiple melee attackers, or mixed attackers (ranged, melee) has been way upped. Previously, if you tried to shield against a ranged opponent AND a melee opponent (ie, Ranger with pet), the shield would instantly stun the melee opponent and stop blocking the projectiles. Therefore, in many situations, the blocking duration has been increased, due to the shield always blocking for a full 2 seconds.

It’s possible to perceive this as a nerf, but it shouldn’t be possible to perceive this as a reason to get your jimmies rustled. There are perks and drawbacks to both versions.

Pistol offhand has always been godly, and blowtorch now has a reduced aftercast. If you perceive shield to be too much of a liability, nearly every exact same build is just as good, if not better, with the pistol – after you’ve adjusted to not go overboard on burning.

• #2 – Elixir R – Going from an instant kitten energy refilling, stunbreak, to a 30s .5s cast energy refilling, non-stunbreak.

^OK. So this ability has lost it’s spot in pretty much every non-support or non-utility build. It’s required to take another stunbreak to be used together with Elixir R. It now is almost always combo’d with Elixir Gun, which now functions as the stunbreak. True support builds that utilize Elixir Gun aren’t penalized at all. This, in fact, has buffed support builds that run Elixir Gun and Elixir R together.

You can surely combo Elixir R with Elixir S, or Slick Shoes. You will likely have to give up a kit to do so, so it’s a less attractive choice – but if the revive utility is needed, a sacrifice for utility can be made. (I personally wouldn’t go for this.)

The long and short of it, is that Elixir R is only optimal in Elixir Gun support builds – so it’s a big nerf to the availability.

So what are tPvP Engineers supposed to do in the meantime with the offensive builds that used to use Elixir R? Slick Shoes. Slick Shoes is a highly devastating, offensive stunbreak, that synergizes amazingly with Grenades. When used to ‘ring’ enemies properly, slick shoes guarantees you enough time to empty a full clip of point blank grenades, and a blowtorch. The stunbreak is highly useful. Everyone needs to learn how to maximize this ability.

Chaith.8256:

So what are tPvP Engineers supposed to do in the meantime with the offensive builds that used to use Elixir R? Slick Shoes. Slick Shoes is a highly devastating, offensive stunbreak, that synergizes amazingly with Grenades.

And almost no conditions control.

In the meantime, there are a bunch of powerful builds that were just created.

• You haven’t lived yet if you have not done hotjoins or WvW with rocket boots & slick shoes. The Super Speed and Rocket Boots combo allows you to stay ahead of any zerg, flawlessly. Combined with a glassy rifle build and grenades, and you have a seriously mobile, highly opportunistic, bursty skirmisher.

• 0/0/20/30/30 Support builds and variants with Elixir Gun, Elixir R, and _ are still very strong.

• Rifle Static Discharge builds are at an all-time high as well. Rifle Turret, Elixir S, Toolkit Static Discharge builds are getting some play in high level tPvP, try it out.

valiel.5041:

Chaith.8256:

So what are tPvP Engineers supposed to do in the meantime with the offensive builds that used to use Elixir R? Slick Shoes. Slick Shoes is a highly devastating, offensive stunbreak, that synergizes amazingly with Grenades.

And almost no conditions control.

Elixir R when commonly used as a revive utility previously had almost no conditions control, either. Heh. A 120 second cooldown that you need to save for when you, or allies, are sub-25% hp is no condition removal crutch.

But we had another utility slot for that.

Btw, is it bug or feature that Super Speed buff from Tool Kit with Tools IV trait doesn’t brakes stun?

valiel.5041:

But we had another utility slot for that.

Btw, is it bug or feature that Super Speed buff from Tool Kit with Tools IV trait doesn’t brakes stun?

Kit Refinement breaking stuns on a 20s cooldown, giving potentially 3 stunbreaks per minute would’ve been a bit lopsided. Taking a multi-proc trait to repeatedly cash in on one superior effect seems unintended.

I mean, do you think we’re phantasm mesmers? With 4.75 stunbreaks per minute, and 10 pseudo-stunbreaks per minute on sword & staff? LOL.

Chaith.8256:

I mean, do you think we’re phantasm mesmers? With 4.75 stunbreaks per minute, and 10 pseudo-stunbreaks per minute on sword & staff? LOL.

LOL indeed. I would buy gems if gems could buy a mesmer nerf.

Grackleflint.4956:

Chaith.8256:

I mean, do you think we’re phantasm mesmers? With 4.75 stunbreaks per minute, and 10 pseudo-stunbreaks per minute on sword & staff? LOL.

LOL indeed. I would buy gems if gems could buy a mesmer nerf.

quote of the kitten day.

Chaith.8256:

Engineer is largely untouched in tPvP, seeing as your hand was never forced to include Elixir R, or a shield offhand.

Here are the top 2 details, bullet form, on how the old Engineer tPvP Meta has been affected, and what to do about it.

• #1 – Shield 5 – going from a 3s channelled ranged block, with a 2 second (one time) melee stun, to a 2s channelled full block, with a 1 second (unlimited) melee stun.

^Projectile avoidance is basically down by a second, but defense against multiple melee attackers, or mixed attackers (ranged, melee) has been way upped. Previously, if you tried to shield against a ranged opponent AND a melee opponent (ie, Ranger with pet), the shield would instantly stun the melee opponent and stop blocking the projectiles. Therefore, in many situations, the blocking duration has been increased, due to the shield always blocking for a full 2 seconds.

It’s possible to perceive this as a nerf, but it shouldn’t be possible to perceive this as a reason to get your jimmies rustled. There are perks and drawbacks to both versions.

Pistol offhand has always been godly, and blowtorch now has a reduced aftercast. If you perceive shield to be too much of a liability, nearly every exact same build is just as good, if not better, with the pistol – after you’ve adjusted to not go overboard on burning.

• #2 – Elixir R – Going from an instant kitten energy refilling, stunbreak, to a 30s .5s cast energy refilling, non-stunbreak.

^OK. So this ability has lost it’s spot in pretty much every non-support or non-utility build. It’s required to take another stunbreak to be used together with Elixir R. It now is almost always combo’d with Elixir Gun, which now functions as the stunbreak. True support builds that utilize Elixir Gun aren’t penalized at all. This, in fact, has buffed support builds that run Elixir Gun and Elixir R together.

You can surely combo Elixir R with Elixir S, or Slick Shoes. You will likely have to give up a kit to do so, so it’s a less attractive choice – but if the revive utility is needed, a sacrifice for utility can be made. (I personally wouldn’t go for this.)

The long and short of it, is that Elixir R is only optimal in Elixir Gun support builds – so it’s a big nerf to the availability.

So what are tPvP Engineers supposed to do in the meantime with the offensive builds that used to use Elixir R? Slick Shoes. Slick Shoes is a highly devastating, offensive stunbreak, that synergizes amazingly with Grenades. When used to ‘ring’ enemies properly, slick shoes guarantees you enough time to empty a full clip of point blank grenades, and a blowtorch. The stunbreak is highly useful. Everyone needs to learn how to maximize this ability.

The kind of reply i was looking for, to be honest, thanks. And yeah, my main problem with the patch is that offensive builds have been affected by elix R nerf, i’m gonna give slick shoes a go.

Imho, the shield nerf is quite relevant, in practice. Versus single opponents you have a 2s block on a 40s cooldown (32 if traited) instead of 3s blocking. If they’re ranged, you’re blocking less; if they’re melee, you will stun them for 1s instead of 2. You will have to cancel the skill anyway to attack them when they are stunned, though, so the only thing changing here is that you stun them for less time.
Versus multiple opponents there is the same problem. Sure, you can stun them, but any action will cancel the shield anyway, and it lasts only for 2 seconds in any case.
Basically, you can’t do anything either way while they are stunned.
It could have some use only if there is also some other ally along the engineer and all the opponents are focusing in melee on the engineer…but even in that case, we’re talking about a 1s stun on a 40s/32s cooldown – due of the duration, i don’t think it would be expected for enemies to be stunned more than a single time.
Overall, it seems quite a nerf to me.

Manuhell.2759:

Versus multiple opponents there is the same problem. Sure, you can stun them, but any action will cancel the shield anyway, and it lasts only for 2 seconds in any case.

Blocking all melee and ranged hits for 2 seconds, from multiple sources, is easily better than expending your entire block to stun the ranger pet, or mesmer clone. This is the worst case scenario, obviously. I’m just making a point that there will me many times where the current Shield 5 is superior.

It seems to be a 1v1 toning down and a 1vX improvement.

Chaith.8256:

Manuhell.2759:

Versus multiple opponents there is the same problem. Sure, you can stun them, but any action will cancel the shield anyway, and it lasts only for 2 seconds in any case.

Blocking all melee and ranged hits for 2 seconds, from multiple sources, is easily better than expending your entire block to stun the ranger pet, or mesmer clone. This is the worst case scenario, obviously. I’m just making a point that there will me many times where the current Shield 5 is superior.

It seems to be a 1v1 toning down and a 1vX improvement.

I’m very thankful that you also speak for the Engineer profession on a high-tier level rather than just Ostricheggs, who often seems to be like a child prodigy with no concept of what’s going on yet he still dominates.

With regards to shield #5 I would think we’re going to have to treat it like applying blind and use it to block specific skills/bursts rather than a long-term block similar to toolkit #4.

I changed to pistol secondary for a short while but felt that shield #4 to prevent ressing kinda outweighed the other utility from pistol.

Manuhell.2759:

Imho, the shield nerf is quite relevant, in practice. Versus single opponents you have a 2s block on a 40s cooldown (32 if traited) instead of 3s blocking. If they’re ranged, you’re blocking less; if they’re melee, you will stun them for 1s instead of 2. You will have to cancel the skill anyway to attack them when they are stunned, though, so the only thing changing here is that you stun them for less time.

This, again, is not giving the new shield #5 skill a fair shot. If you’re fighting one melee attacker, you stun them. I’m with you up until that point. Then you want to attack? Throw the shield instead of cancelling it. Preferably just as they break the initial 1s stun, now they have a daze they likely can’t get out of. Now you’re getting another 1 second of daze and damage, as well as another 1s daze and damage when it comes back.

Why on earth are you just cancelling it to attack them?

Chaith.8256:

Blocking all melee and ranged hits for 2 seconds, from multiple sources, is easily better than expending your entire block to stun the ranger pet, or mesmer clone. This is the worst case scenario, obviously. I’m just making a point that there will me many times where the current Shield 5 is superior.

It seems to be a 1v1 toning down and a 1vX improvement.

The only case where there would an improvement is an 1vX with someone melee. That’s the theory. But even so, it is futile in practice. You’re already blocking, what use there is to stun them if you can’t act after that? If you’re using it just to block, then we’re talking about a 2s block on a 40s cooldown.
That’s just terrible, especially since the gear shield can block for more time, on half the cooldown.

Adamantium.3682:

This, again, is not giving the new shield #5 skill a fair shot. If you’re fighting one melee attacker, you stun them. I’m with you up until that point. Then you want to attack? Throw the shield instead of cancelling it. Preferably just as they break the initial 1s stun, now they have a daze they likely can’t get out of. Now you’re getting another 1 second of daze and damage, as well as another 1s daze and damage when it comes back.

Why on earth are you just cancelling it to attack them?

Because throw shield has a 0.75s activation time. If you throw it this way instead of acting while they are stunned, you’re basically trading a 1s stun for a 1s daze + some damage. Since while dazed they can move, the second hit can be easily avoided – it travels on a straight line, after all.

Manuhell.2759:

Because throw shield has a 0.75s activation time. If you throw it this way instead of acting while they are stunned, you’re basically trading a 1s stun for a 1s daze + some damage. Since while dazed they can move, the second hit can be easily avoided – it travels on a straight line, after all.

But this made up situation was against a melee right? So you know they have to be next to you to attack, so you can get them directly in the path of the shield coming back. If they dodge away from it, or get out of the path, well that’s also time you’re hitting them and they’re not hitting you so the shield has done a good job of giving you an opening.

I also don’t quite understand how it’s trading 1s stun for 1s daze. You’re being very pessimistic and unfair to the skill. The stun has already happened. By throwing the shield you’re not erasing what stun was already applied. You’re adding onto it. If they broke the stun, you’re still not trading anything because the stun is gone regardless of what you do.

Personally I feel a bit naked to conditions. I like the new rocket boots but there’s just too much stuff I want spread across too many kits and then there’s elixirs and gadgets. I just feel like I’d need 6 utility slots to make my builds work most of the time.
I wish they worked more on the traits, most of them really aren’t worth a slot.

Adamantium.3682:

Manuhell.2759:

Because throw shield has a 0.75s activation time. If you throw it this way instead of acting while they are stunned, you’re basically trading a 1s stun for a 1s daze + some damage. Since while dazed they can move, the second hit can be easily avoided – it travels on a straight line, after all.

But this made up situation was against a melee right? So you know they have to be next to you to attack, so you can get them directly in the path of the shield coming back. If they dodge away from it, or get out of the path, well that’s also time you’re hitting them and they’re not hitting you so the shield has done a good job of giving you an opening.

I also don’t quite understand how it’s trading 1s stun for 1s daze. You’re being very pessimistic and unfair to the skill. The stun has already happened. By throwing the shield you’re not erasing what stun was already applied. You’re adding onto it. If they broke the stun, you’re still not trading anything because the stun is gone regardless of what you do.

You’re spending almost all the time they are stunned to activate the shield throw – as i said before, its cast time is 0.75s. You will hit them with the first daze, but it is likely they’ll avoid the return shot, cause in the meantime the stun effect will be ended and they’ll be able to move (and since the shield travels in a straight line, they just have to kite the engineer a bit to avoid the second hit).
In terms of simply staying alive, sure, you may have got a couple seconds. But the stun is basically being wasted this way, and you won’t even inflict a reasonable amount of damage – just the shield throw damage and, assuming he doesn’t move enough, the attack you can do while he’s dazed for that second.
Imho, 2 seconds of stun were much more useful in that regard, whether for offensive or defensive purposes.

Edit: albeit, it seems that the throw shield could be bugged – it doesn’t always return, according to a thread in the bug forum.

I feel like your bias is still showing. This whole hypothetical situation was against a melee combatant, but now he’s kiting us away from our own returning shield? How is a melee attacker kiting a ranged attacker? As for the .75s activation time, I don’t see that as an issue because you’re using it to get another 1s daze and a probable 1s daze again afterwards.

Also just a quick note: while it may be bugged right now and not returning at all in some cases, the shield most certainly does not return in a straight line. It returns to you. If you move, you can alter the path of the returning shield. This was the premise of my whole point about being able to manipulate it to either hit the melee attacker or making him move away, buying you some time either way.

At this point I’m fine with just disagreeing with you. I feel that you do have some good points, and I don’t think the new shield is better in every way imaginable, but I do feel that you have a bias against it that isn’t letting you form new opinions very fairly.

Chaith.8256:

• #1 – Shield 5 – going from a 3s channelled ranged block, with a 2 second (one time) melee stun, to a 2s channelled full block, with a 1 second (unlimited) melee stun.

It was never a 3s channel.

Dirame.8521:

It was never a 3s channel.

It was if you bugged it out by firing off another skill before the 2s duration expired.

Well there is bit difference between nerf and fixing exploit. If you exploit shield before its nerf now if not you got nice buff.

Manuhell.2759:

Eviator.9746:

Manuhell.2759:

Warriors won one too some time ago. I suppose they were fine back then, right?

When the OP says “This puts the Engi class in a bad position in tPvP in my opinion”, a day or two after the new engis won a pretty big tournament, I start to question the logic.

I’ll repeat myself: warriors were able to win that tournament as well in the past. Did that meant they were powerful and almighty at that time?
No, they weren’t, exactly as they aren’t now.
Simply put, that tournament doesn’t prove anything.

Usually, difficult professions shine at high level and kitten at low skill. That’s tough because a.net can either make them strong at low skill and extremely OP at high skill, or weak at low and balanced at high. For a competitive game, only the second option is viable. Professions consistently winning tournaments are good or balanced.

I’ve seen this happen in many games. Noobs and newbs complain about overpowered or weak professions, yet the exact opposite happens at high tier because pros know how to use a difficult profession properly.

Engineer is difficult, which means it’s underpowered in the hands of noobs/newbs and overpowered in the hands of skilled players.

And here I thought I had a nearly immortal P/S engi build based around HGH and elixir gun now.

Guess not!

marnick.4305:

Engineer is difficult, which means it’s underpowered in the hands of noobs/newbs and overpowered in the hands of skilled players.

this must be the reason why top engineers changed from engineer to other professions

Lupanic.6502:

marnick.4305:

Engineer is difficult, which means it’s underpowered in the hands of noobs/newbs and overpowered in the hands of skilled players.

this must be the reason why top engineers changed from engineer to other professions

Because kittens like OEggs threw a tantrum because their favorite broken toy got fixed and now it doesn’t work the same as it used to.

One trick ponies have no place in competitive play. Good riddance.

Chaith.8256:

Engineer is largely untouched in tPvP, seeing as your hand was never forced to include Elixir R, or a shield offhand.

Here are the top 2 details, bullet form, on how the old Engineer tPvP Meta has been affected, and what to do about it.

• #1 – Shield 5 – going from a 3s channelled ranged block, with a 2 second (one time) melee stun, to a 2s channelled full block, with a 1 second (unlimited) melee stun.

^Projectile avoidance is basically down by a second, but defense against multiple melee attackers, or mixed attackers (ranged, melee) has been way upped. Previously, if you tried to shield against a ranged opponent AND a melee opponent (ie, Ranger with pet), the shield would instantly stun the melee opponent and stop blocking the projectiles. Therefore, in many situations, the blocking duration has been increased, due to the shield always blocking for a full 2 seconds.

It’s possible to perceive this as a nerf, but it shouldn’t be possible to perceive this as a reason to get your jimmies rustled. There are perks and drawbacks to both versions.

Pistol offhand has always been godly, and blowtorch now has a reduced aftercast. If you perceive shield to be too much of a liability, nearly every exact same build is just as good, if not better, with the pistol – after you’ve adjusted to not go overboard on burning.

• #2 – Elixir R – Going from an instant kitten energy refilling, stunbreak, to a 30s .5s cast energy refilling, non-stunbreak.

^OK. So this ability has lost it’s spot in pretty much every non-support or non-utility build. It’s required to take another stunbreak to be used together with Elixir R. It now is almost always combo’d with Elixir Gun, which now functions as the stunbreak. True support builds that utilize Elixir Gun aren’t penalized at all. This, in fact, has buffed support builds that run Elixir Gun and Elixir R together.

You can surely combo Elixir R with Elixir S, or Slick Shoes. You will likely have to give up a kit to do so, so it’s a less attractive choice – but if the revive utility is needed, a sacrifice for utility can be made. (I personally wouldn’t go for this.)

The long and short of it, is that Elixir R is only optimal in Elixir Gun support builds – so it’s a big nerf to the availability.

So what are tPvP Engineers supposed to do in the meantime with the offensive builds that used to use Elixir R? Slick Shoes. Slick Shoes is a highly devastating, offensive stunbreak, that synergizes amazingly with Grenades. When used to ‘ring’ enemies properly, slick shoes guarantees you enough time to empty a full clip of point blank grenades, and a blowtorch. The stunbreak is highly useful. Everyone needs to learn how to maximize this ability.

Hell, I’m not even doing anything that advanced with Slick Shoes and it’s a powerhouse. I’ve been using it to set up some Rifle burst as people are nearing 25% health. Slick Shoes>Blunderbuss>Jump Shot>Overcharged Shot and it’s usually over.

Long story short, I agree—this is one hell of a utility.