Guild Wars 2

Hello, masters of mechanical mayhem!

We’ve seen many updates and many nerfs/buffs/ or whatever we call them. Many things have changed, in a bad or good way.

Now, what I want to hear from you is: how is the engineers’ current state?

Are we better off after last patch? What changes are still needed? etc.

The only thing I’d like to say about the engineers state is: turrets and gadgets, still are not worth it. And that’s too bad. All of our builds are a combination of kits and elixers. sometimes with a lonley turret/gadget wamped into it, but eventually that never works out really great. It’s a real shame. I want to use turrets and gadgets.

Anyway, tell me your honest opinion about the engineers state! Let the discussion begin!

let the discussion begin!

Other classes think I’m more pathetic than ever. It’s horrible x.x Other than that , I play like I always have. Meh. Im not happy with the class overall, and really frustrated that I’m going to keep getting nerfed and nerfed til this class has nothing to offer to anybody or anything. But til then, I’ll continue to have fun.

1. Last 2’s patches killed all multikit builds for me.
2. FT and also EG based builds were quite weak even before their huge nerfs.
3. Bombs and gadgets have always been too limited for WVW, and again nerfs.
4. SD is quite limited by the skills that work with all the SD bugs, other classes bursts harder, and with much more to offer on the side.
5. 100nades wasn’t toned down, it was completely deleted from the game, so clearly engineer isintended to never be allowed to burst on a level with other classes.
6. Only 10% of what’s needed for wvw happened to turrets.

Elixirs are still rubbish for way more hassle and keypresses (lagged too) than shouts, but are the best of what’s on offer, also the only way to really deal with conditions now.

Extremely low variety when you want to experiment, so few weapons, no swap etc. Devs only appear to know what they don’t want engineer to be so take things away, but have no clues what they actually want engineer to be able to do, so never add new possibilities at a level that makes them more than gimmicks to test.

sPvP perspective only

“off” condition is decent – everything else does not work in pvp

class overall lacks
1. survivability when playing off builds (as soon as you drop elixir S, you`re going down HARD!) i.e. this means lack of stun breakers + lack of stealth/invul. Engi is reasonably squishy without the massive hp pool of necros or the ridiculous amount of evades which mesmers or rangers (or even thieves) bring to the table
2. lacks condition removal in general outside of elixirs
3. lacks VERSATILITY! lack of weapon swap means we have 1 skill less than other classes with a 4 skill class mechanic even if we pick 1 kit.

For a more detailed look at the last patch i provided this post to the spvp forums:

After my suspension is lifted i can finally go back to voicing my opinion on the most recent patch notes for engineer in the most eloquent way possible.

For this matter i`d like to share this video which explains the issues in depth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxMafF6mj1E

I could write pages of information on what is wrong with this class. But due to the fact that it doesnt have any impact on the ridiculous choices the game designers make i might as well not waste the time.

Less build diversity. That’s pretty much it, the buffed stuff ( turrets, flamethrower before this patch ) is still only good for gimmick builds.

Still too much crying from too much ppl with no idea – nothing changed.

I really don’t know what you naysayers are on about. I guess everything you play revolves around Kit Refinement.

As for me, after the last two patches I’ve gotten more builds and both of which I can play in a competitive setting to great effect.

Tbh the patch changes made the Engineer more viable. The biggest buff was for condition builds. They fixed Giver’s weapons so more builds be came viable for 50 and 100% condition duration. On top of that, turrets got a great buff for sPvP. WvW turret health is still a problem though. Direct damage still doesnt apply still. However if your a Boon Spike Engineer this was a great patch with a lot of turret cool down reductions. Personally thumper turret could still use 10 seconds off its skill use in my opinion.

I feel while some nerfs went too far, especially in Kit refinement we are still a very strong PvP class. Rifle HGH nades is one of the strongest builds in the game. While you’ll lack a lot of utility you can run all turrets as a point assaulter/defending and be very effective. Even if you just take net turret with a rifle you will have some of the best control in the game. While losing the double pop is a shame I still think FT is a viable kit because of it’s ability to quickly apply on crit conditions and when traited has a 12 sec blow back. Some skills do need modifying, elixirs are good for HGH and 409 but I feel that visually they aren’t much different that signets or shouts. Having them do an interesting visual effect for a few seconds after using would make them more interesting to use since it seems they don’t want us using multiple kits.

This class is dead. There are one or two builds that kinda work for very specific things, but the player base doesn’t care.

The devs think kit refinement was too strong. I think kit refinement was the only thing keeping a lousy class playable.

As a tier-one skill, KR was too powerful? Who gives a kitten? What kind of logic is that?

...and if you want to talk about a first tier skill being too powerful, who in their right kittening mind doesn’t take speedy kits?

I play a perfectly viable flametank in wvwvw. I have no idea what everyone is kittening about.

MattyP.6954:

I play a perfectly viable flametank in wvwvw. I have no idea what everyone is kittening about.

I have been as well, although FT is not where it needs to be yet.

It needs either a slight damage boost, or a reduction in cast time for #1.

I would also like to see a blast finisher and a PBAOE damage component added to the #5 skill.

I don’t complain, not using any of the popular builds and when not facing a confusion Mesmer I feel on equal footing against any other classes.

I think the state of the engineer class is still better after the recent patches (apart from the KR massacre). A lot of changes have been making the base of a lot of our skills stronger and more viable. Still, like everyone else, I believe a lot more work is still need to be done on the engineer because the core foundation of this profession was so badly done, that whenever I look at the trait line, I just wanna toss all that up in the trash and rework it all.
With that being said, I think it going to a lot of patches to fix the broken state engineer is in. The big questions I would like to have an answer to from Anet is what are engineer supposed to be? what is our profession style?
If they knew the answer to these questions, by then we would have a viable class. Atm we are still a mash up of drug-addicts, gadget freaks, kit junkies and vintage bot collectors =)

We’ve lost about as much as we gained: some benefits, especially to elixir/condition builds, but offset by the reduction in build diversity (expect almost all engineers to be elixir/condition builds).

On the plus side are improvements to elixir/condition builds (this is now the de facto build for Engs), Tool Kit is better in WvW (until confusion gets nerfed) and the Flamethrower got some much needed buffs (but could use a little more).

On the minus side, we’ve lost our only burst damage build (100nades) and many popular, if only marginally viable, multi-kit builds. Our trait tree was were weakened as the very popular Kit Refinement was nerfed out of existence, with no compensation for its loss.

Neutral changes were: a) turrets got a lot of love, but still not enough to make them a notable part of our arsenal; and b) the Elixir Gun got some buffs but the benefits of that were neutralised by the demise of Kit Refinement.

Gadgets were pretty much ignored.

The class that’s supposed to be the paragon of versatility just got more homogeneous. There was a month in the middle when other classes were nervous of Eng because they didn’t know what we’d do. Now all they want to know is how to combat elixir/condition Engs, because that’s all they see. Is this a good thing for the class? Personally, I don’t think so.

Oh boy, here we go.

Very little use Turrets, and Gadgets are horrible.

We pay Versatility Tax on our Damage without actually gaining much Versatility.

Our support options go as far as Condition Removal and a small amount of heals; sure some will Smoke Bomb→Blast Finisher but that’s just a poor man’s Blinding Powder.

Our Control options have been nerfed time after time.

Really, the only thing that is good about Engineer are our Kits. With AoE pouring out of our ears, we really bring the hurt when it comes to AoE.

For WvW I run toolkit bunker and elixirs.

If I ever run anything besides toolkit and elixirs in this setting it’s a complete and total mess

So there goes the “versatility”. This is very bad for my morale regarding this class.

I don’t even want to talk about PvE. If it weren’t for the fact that I were quite skilled enough to heal everyone and stay alive till the bitterest of ends, I would disown me if I were my guild. I also find having to swap traits around before every segment of the game quite annoying.

One has to be careful when asking open questions like this. Most human beings are incapable of self-criticism. Life is much easier if everything else is the reason you fail and not you.

So i have been playing engineer for a bit and i really enjoy the kits something i would love to see in the traits is some master changes. For example change out some useless traits to boost kits like grenades for example decently good in pve but pvp really has some trouble with the targeting and travel time the traits i have been thinking about is kit upgrades for each 30 pointer allowing you to keep the grenades if you wish but if you grab the kit up grade it becomes a diff kit altogether so grenades for example will become a rocket kit around same damage as grenades same travel time just very low aoe spread and maby a bit increased travel speed also with a mild auto lock same could go for maby tool kit if traited becomes a two handed mace more damage a few switched abilities but keep the effects about the same i think if they did this it would be great and add some much needed buffs to specific kit builds while allowing for the original as well.

I felt that the boost to FT and the change in the Med Kit and Bomb Kit’s KR proc were nice. However, the rest of KR, or Kitten Refinement as I am trying to label it, was so Kitten it needed a bag and a river. There was no need to nerf KR once, then nerf it again into oblivion. It was just pure spite.

How many other classes had a core trait completely rewritten into something else? When it happened to Juggernaut it was a good thing, but this was just ridiculous!

Sepahbod.4653:

One has to be careful when asking open questions like this. Most human beings are incapable of self-criticism. Life is much easier if everything else is the reason you fail and not you.

It’s a fact that things on Engineer are just inferior when put up apples to apples of other professions. Examples:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Energy_Conversion_Matrix
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Power

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Low_Health_Response_System
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_of_Life

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precise_Strikes
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharpshooter

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiked_Armor
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Mods

Aristio.2784:

Sepahbod.4653:

One has to be careful when asking open questions like this. Most human beings are incapable of self-criticism. Life is much easier if everything else is the reason you fail and not you.

It’s a fact that things on Engineer are just inferior when put up apples to apples of other professions. Examples:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Energy_Conversion_Matrix
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Power

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Low_Health_Response_System
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_of_Life

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precise_Strikes
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharpshooter

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiked_Armor
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Mods

I know this will provoke a lot of hate, but Engineer class requires more skill and L2P than most classes, with Ele being a close 2nd. I’m not saying that other classes require no skill (except thief. I mean, how hard is it to spam 2 repeatedly?). I just mean that the success/failure curve for an Engineer in sPVP is a great deal higher if you’re running anything other than an Elixir build.

I liken playing a utility engineer in PVP to playing a grand piano that controls a robot being used in a fist fight.

There should be a Super Cool Ski Instructor meme:

If you’re not using Keybinds and Quickcast on your Engineer

YOUR GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME

Heck, just for fun

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3tshid/

Are we allowed to talk pve here?

I noticed turrets became pretty durable. All turrets looks like it’s finally viable.
What I want:
- condition removal outside elixirs
- no RNG on elixirs. Reducing RNG is only part of the solutions
- party wide support with decent durations. We should be equivalent to guardian for buffs in dungeons. Currently durations are too short to matter, non-existent outside elixirs (again).
- buff elixir X and Mortar to be half useful at times. I just don’t see it, maybe it’s me.

Not sure if this is the right place but i have found a replacement for 100nades in pvp atm now it will take up 2 utility slots but can end up doing more damage by far. The setu kitten imple as a zerker engineer you use SD of course but you make in addition to your grenades, rocket turret, and rifle turret now with a full crit damage build your belt skills for rocket will be 45sec bullet will be 7 sec you deploy both turrets somewhere close or on top of some people if you grab the turrets use ground targeting then choose your target carefully. When you have chosen destroy both turrets and spam the rocket and bullet buttons instant 4 charges of SD plus the bullet and rocket with if you positioned them well 2 explosions of the turrets for another up to around 3k on crits try it out and have fun guys.

you gotta be kitten me it messed up my post

FT is much better than it was. 2, 3, 5 are good skills. 4 I only use on downed players I don’t have time to stomp. Number 1 is still bugging on targetting and just lacks condition or damage. If number 1 stays same, the others need a slight boost. Number 4 on FT should be a round cirlce around engineer, not the line.

Turrets are still awful. Not enough HP for a long CD, non mobile skill. The uses on turrets are fine. But they really need some sort of defensive traits. AoE netting, cripples, dazes. Some solid ground control like the reflective wall or something.

All in all, go grenades if you have macros or the FT HGH combo and stick with PVE. FT HGH is strong in PVP, but I think most other classes do better. It’s a “fun” class, not really a competitive class. You may see 4k to 5k FT explosions which look awesome until you see a 15k necro axe attack.

IMHO, the game was fun. A lot of great ideas, and I can see they wanted to be original with their style of MMO, but they failed in implemetation. No class should have be a “jack of all trades”. Class balance in this game is vastly lacking but that has a lot to do with hard hitting bosses you just kite versus actively engage and WvW being zerg fests. Nothing wrong with sticking together, but there needs to be more mapping in the game to force bottle necking, spike traps or pits, buffs to outmanned groups. Forcing low number zergs to hide in a keep until they can hopefully fight off a mindless zerg back and forth all the live long day is boring to me. Spvp is great but maps are too small which provide too much benenfit to faster classes. Speed boosting should be relative to combat only. Also condition damage takes a huge nerf bat compared to the return you will see on crit damage. Often in this game, regardless of a mechanic, steamrolling the dungeons because an easier, safer, quicker practice. You just beat the mob to death before really having to deal with the attacks. Harpies on +10 FOTM for example.

….HGH……..

/thread

Not from where I’m sitting. Multiple threads pointed out since last patch that the devs just don’t seem to get what Versatility means, because they can’t seem to stop pidgeonholing this class into fewer and fewer choices each major patch. And that there doesn’t seem to be anyone playing engineers on the devs team so suspected favoritism for other classes exist and the real concerns of engineers have not only been completely ignored since launch they’ve actually made many things worse.

some of us have given up entirely on them actually taking a moment to see everything that’s wrong with this class and fixing it.

Jay.4837:

Aristio.2784:

Sepahbod.4653:

One has to be careful when asking open questions like this. Most human beings are incapable of self-criticism. Life is much easier if everything else is the reason you fail and not you.

It’s a fact that things on Engineer are just inferior when put up apples to apples of other professions. Examples:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Energy_Conversion_Matrix
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Power

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Low_Health_Response_System
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_of_Life

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precise_Strikes
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharpshooter

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiked_Armor
vs.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Mods

I know this will provoke a lot of hate, but Engineer class requires more skill and L2P than most classes, with Ele being a close 2nd. I’m not saying that other classes require no skill (except thief. I mean, how hard is it to spam 2 repeatedly?). I just mean that the success/failure curve for an Engineer in sPVP is a great deal higher if you’re running anything other than an Elixir build.

I liken playing a utility engineer in PVP to playing a grand piano that controls a robot being used in a fist fight.

There should be a Super Cool Ski Instructor meme:

If you’re not using Keybinds and Quickcast on your Engineer

YOUR GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME

Putting forth significantly more effort than other classes to do the same things is in itself imbalance.

If something has a much higher skill ceiling to play, usually it would involve a greater reward, not the same or less if it wants to be considered worthy.