Guild Wars 2

Anybody else getting tired of Engineers roaming in WvW, solo or not? With the lack of a way to go faster than swiftness, my ability to be effective solo is feeling pretty low. If I want to try and take some numbers out of a zerg, I can only begin to hope to catch some low leveled necro who can’t keep up with the zerg.

I am a boss in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 situations. Grenades and Rifle means I stay in control, and never really am afraid of loosing. Haven’t lost a good 1v1 in a month. Thing is, I die because I can’t out-run a zerg. Most I can do is run exactly as fast as one.

I really love Engineers, but I want to be able to Solo Roam most of all, and even if I am very good at fighting, I hate falling apart at the simplest things: Running.

So tell me, what can I do, or please recommend 3 classes for me to reroll to please! I won’t be leaving, but I might have to use my Engineer less…

If your main goal is to be able to always get away even when a zerg runs over top of you – just roll a thief.

No, that’s not the point. The point is being able to move quickly, not the quickest. Also, everyone knows thieves are good, got any other ideas?

Why not just simply run with the speedy kits trait (which will keep you as fast as the zerg) and occasionally throw in super speed from slick shoes (won’t help in combat though). Barely any other class can do any better with regards to speed.
If in combat, then the power shoes trait could also help.

only thing you can really do is run with swiftness and port back as soon as possible. Use freeze nade, supply crate, or box of nails to try and slow em down as much as possible. Also I’ve used the acid leap from elixir gun to some marginal success, as its our only reliable movement skill

Well you asked what can you do or recommend a class.

We have no forward leaps, so there is nothing that can be done there.

Your own ways to really escape are by slowing down the enemies, box of nails, freeze nade, glue shot, glue bomb, BoB.

Our only leap is the elixir gun jump backward (rifle doesn’t count, delay lasts long enough that you can run the same distance). You can use that + slowing the enemy down to try to get away…but you will never be able to escape the zerg like a thief.

You can use elixir gun #4 as leap forward. Anyway, I feel the same way u do: I am boss fighting 1vs 1-5 – can’t even remember last time losing a 1 vs 1 situation. But I changed to ethernal battlefields only for closer ways.

Let’s be realistic here. You (one player) has very little chance of getting away from 20+ players, any one of which may be faster than you.

As far as I’m aware, there is no “magic trick” that can make the zerg disappear. It’s an unfortunate fact of WvW roaming.

Just change build…a very simple useing pistol pistol hgh/condition build will allow you to perma swiftness and kill 90% of the people you meet in WWW ( 1vs1 1vs2 and sometimes 1vs3)…

Rifle is amazeing but is more for group/zerg playing…for solo/5 people roaming i prefer pistols o pistol /shield.

Using kit refinement with either the elixir gun or tool kit can help too. I’ve made some decent use of those before (tool kit also has the caltrops Jr. ability). You can also try dropping bombs behind you (smoke bomb and glue bomb can be helpful), and the freeze grenade can be effective in slowing a cluster of people down.

Blocks are also useful too from tool kit and shield, and elixir S can be a very useful tool for getting away.

I’d say rocket boots as well, but they can be rather unreliable.

There’s also the automated response traits that lets you be immune to conditions when you’re at low HP. Combined with high toughness, it can make it hard for people to get rid of that last portion of your health, especially if you have persistent regen. You’re also immune to cripple, chill, fear, and immobilize at that point.

Slick shoes is one I haven’t played around with a lot, but it can be a very useful skill for leaving you opponents in the dust, especially since the oil slick doesn’t put you in combat by itself. The 5 seconds of super speed on the tool belt skill can also be very handy for escapes. You can get 7 seconds of super speed if you do tool kit with kit refinement as well.

You can also go for some stealth with smoke bomb and toss elixir S. You can have a number of blast finishers available that will let you be a thief for a short time.

In any case, if you want to be an engg roamer, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect to handle zergs well. It’s just not something that those builds are inherently good at. You need to pick your battles as a roamer, and picking them against zergs isn’t going to be in your best interest most of the time. If zergs really want to catch you, they will. So you just need to be constantly aware of where they are and try to get out of the way.

I’ve had decent success in 1vZerg, but it was with a highly defensive build (i.e. similar to tankcat). The problem with this build is that it can be underwhelming for roaming since it will be harder to kill things in 1v1.

As for other professions, thieves and eles tend to be the best at 1vZerg, although I wouldn’t discount mesmers. Guardians and rangers might also be able to do well with the right build, although they would have to rely on raw survivability more than escaping.

Honestly, picking and choosing your fights well I feel is pretty key. We don’t have any real movement effects beyond Acidic Leap, and once you’re tagged and in combat – unless you can get lost in friendlies or they disengage – you better have an escape route/method planned.

As Yamsandjams says, don’t discount our blocks and Elixir S. S’s toss also can give a few seconds of crucial stability or a stealth. I will say that WvW is one situation in which I do miss Veil being on Toss U.

Elementalist isn’t the only class that can run right through a zerg into a tower/keep, I do quite well bypassing a zerg with 409 trait, the Alchemy Master minor, Self Regulating just in case, using P/S and EG/Toolkit & S.

I’ve seen Engi’s use bombs, Toolkit nails and glue shot to some success in slowing down pursuers, and indeed, Acidic Leap is fantastic if you’re quick on using aboutface.

In prolonged zerg vs zerg situations, Self Regulating defenses almost feels like a must – With the amount of heals and condition removals I can pull off, I can usually quite easily survive long enough to use it multiple times, provided you have somewhere to retreat to.

Thanks for your inputs! I know I was not really all too clear. I do run an HGH build, and in my opinion @Edyrin you should seriously try a rifle in WvW solo. The net helps, but to me the overcharged shot sets up for combos that will have you winning big time, very fast.

Solo Roamers need to be able to outrun and choose fights. Yes, I have perma-swiftness, but what we lack is a way to really make up a distance, or create one. I agree @Halcyon, that picking your fights is key, but you don’t get to pick your fights if all you have is swiftness. You see what is coming at you, and you can try to start running, or you can try to chase them. You have such limited choice in your battles without a way to move between options.

Also @All people telling me to just WP, that is extremely unpractical. I am in an area in WvW to take small points, but also because our zerg needs information to make the best choices. Teleporting all the way back across the map at the first sign of danger is simply a few silver away from killing yourself.

Also, yes I get that we can slow down other people, but all those things you guys mentioned are very dodge-able, and even if they hit I am now in combat so I can forget about running away, unless I manage to hit everybody chasing me.

In the end, I am just frustrated at how almost incredibly complete yet terribly incomplete we are. Such a small issue, but because of it my guild leader doesn’t want to see engineers away from the zerg. If we had just ONE really solid, low cooldown leap finisher (that made up ground), then we would be one of the top roamers around. Instead, our potential is wasted and we become one of the many.

It is a very sad story…

:(

Practice a bunch with the Elixir gun then, you can definitely use the leap in there to do this if you practice with it. It’s not as good as a forward leap but it does the job decently.

You wreck faces in 1vX but you cant escape a zerg , sounds like you want to be thief. Also the leap on Acid Elixir is only 400 lol , basically a high CD Heartseeker.

Do not hate me for trolling or anything. I am going to be honest. If you are going to solo roam your going to need to do it on thief, warrior, mesmer, ranger or ele. Forward movements and leaps are the key. Swiftness is nice but its not everything. Mind you even if you run one of these classes highly mobile a good thief as long as they run D/x or shortbow will be able to catch up to you. That being said pure melee ranger and warrior are second tier speedsters with the right set up. DD Ele can run for a while but will eventually get caught. Same with mesmer.

IMHO the key things to remember when solo roaming is where your doing it and enemy movement. On my warrior earlier today as I was soloing a camp and used my camera reverse hot key and caught zerg in my rear view. I left all my CDs off cool down that I would use to run. A guardian did Judge then try to burst me but he got not a hit in. I know your wondering how this plays into engineer. One of the keys to running beside being fast is block and invul states. Engineer technically has access to what you need to make a good run with toolkit, elixir s, and elixir gun. I am not saying this will work always, but a lot of running is just creating periods of time where the enemy is not hitting you. Your not necessarily outrunning them but at the same time your avoiding so much of their snares and DPS its gets to be a chore to catch you. While you can not do this indefinitely you can create situations where you can get to a base or other players from your side. It might require a specific build but proper roaming requires that of every class (save thief).

Another thing to remember is knowing what class is chains you and how they are n water. I really can’t tell you the number of times i lured players into water on mesmer and speed away or the number of times I did so on warrior and beat them in 1 v x situations. With the exception of EB knowing your distance to water can be key in WvW roaming. Because, classes are limited in what skills they can use in water it is often easy to reset a fight or create distance just knowing how water relates to their skills.

Besides that as others have said Cc plays a big part. Chill, cripple, and immobilize will all extend a run.

Not here trying to say its fare or anything just sharing my experience in WvW roaming. Hope it helps and that you find a fun/effective roaming build.

TL;DR

I know its a bit of a wall. Engineer is not the best roamer in terms of speed. However, with some specific skills/terrain you can invul/block and CC your way into the safe arms of your team. Just don’t get pinned down and you could pull this off.

Well, we can’t have absolutely everything. Jump shot would actually be much better as a chaser if it didn’t have that weird, clunky landing. Can be traited down to 16s CD.

Rocket boots could be that skill, but it just isn’t. If they made it a directional launch without the self-KD, it would actually be really good for chasing as well (i.e. like a blink, except without actual teleporting).

I don’t think all the professions need amazing micro-mobility though. Engineers are arguably the worst in that regard (although necros would be the main contender for that), but we make it up in other areas. For instance, we have good macro-mobility options, and macro-mobility is very valuable for a roamer, possibly moreso than micro-mobility. Mesmers are quite the opposite; decent micro-mobility, poor macro-mobility.

It’s just something that needs to be worked around. I don’t think we’ll ever be able to compete with eles or thieves in the 1vZerg department, even if we have superb micro-mobility.

Don’t listen to anyone saying you need to play something else to solo roam. IMO we are one of the best solo roamers there are. There’s a lot more to being a roamer than just being able to leap forward.

to be honest we are just not that mobile. We have the standard switftness that is pretty much generic, and with slick shoes / kit reifinement + tool kit you get a little bit of situational speed. But your not in the same league as warrior, theif, ranger, ele, or mesmer.

You best bet is to port out or stay near a friendly objective like the most foward tower. Otherwise the zerg will run you down.

As for organized team specs I really recommend doing a tool belt / turret build. Taking advantage of the healing turret water fields with triple blast finishers for solid group healing. But keep in mind, you are not using the turrets as turrets, you are blasting them and using the tool belts. Thumper is a tripple blast finisher if you keybind it right. That’s 3600-4500 aoe healing every 50 seconds, with the ability to drop more.

But whatever spec your running tool kit with kit refinement makes a huge difference with survivability. haste ? 3s of block and an AoE cripple field can save you if you time it right with dodges.

Also although it is disliked the elite elixir and the rampage form can save you form time to time. Stability ? the knock back and chage is often enough to get that extra bit to safety.

I have been doing solo roaming as an engineer in EU tier #1 (now in EU tier #2) and here are my couple of cents:

Speedy kits is good. Blocking is good. Using your supply crate and CCs (like freeze grenade thrown backwards) to stall enemy is good. Using the terrain as advantage is good. However none of them will save you from an enemy zerg if they really want to catch you, unless you get lucky.

Despite I constantly keep an eye on the big map, trying to anticipate where the enemy zergs are moving, it is very likely to run into a 5-40 man enemy group. Getting away from 5 is somewhat possible, but a big zerg usually has permanent swiftness + so many players with tons of gap closers and CC. Tossing elixir R at the right moment might save you from being stomped by a small enemy group, but it won’t help you against an enemy zerg. Lack of stability and gap closers are one of the weak points of the engineer.

On a fairly empty map engineer is a very good choice for roaming. As jacks of all trades we can handle a lot of situations. Condition heavy engineer builds (like HGH) are very strong in 1-vs-1 or even 1-vs-2. But things change when the huge skill lag kicks in and the map is full. I am talking about such lag which prevents you to activate your skills or your dodges come 1 second later. You just have to accept the fact that you are gonna get killed quite often if you solo roam as an engineer in a busy / full WvWvW map. Some other professions e.g. thief, mesmer or ranger are better suited for roaming.

Guardians and warriors are the back bone of the melee train. That melee train also needs mesmers (veil, portal etc), necromancers (boon stripping, enemy mass blinding etc) and elementalists (heals, condition removal, big AoE) and thieves (stealth stomp, blast finishers, killing the flank of the enemy tail).

Now the good question is what is the specific role in WvWvW which engineer is filling: Which other professions cannot do well?

you are just going aboutit the wrong way. you don’t have burst speed but you do have cripple puddles. I normally have no problem outrunning the zergs, I even do it on my necro following the same principle.

also, cloaking device really helps. between that, gear shield and elixir S, box of nails and glue shot, I feel vey confortable escaping zergs.

@ Deniara

I’ve been working on that a while and to be honest the only things I have really come up with is a limited amount of water field usage off the healing turret, stacking multiple blast finishers with thumper, and general group support with cleansing / light fields from elixir gun.

Combined with a bit of rifle dps.

But in organized play we are really in a bad spot balance wise, and to be honest we are a weak link with retaliation as is it.

Retaliation shuts down grenade, FT, and PP in any serious fight. You can’t take incoming aoe, ontop of 5-12k froms your own skills. Bomb kit is to situational, tool kit is to ST focus with 1/3.

So that’s about it. I am not saying it’s absolutely horrible, but your guild gets much more out of another warrior, guardian, ele, or theif in your spot. So your more for fringe and flavour than anything else.

But being able to drop 2-4 blast finishers on demand gives you someone of a niche role as a burst healer.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Well, we can’t have absolutely everything. Jump shot would actually be much better as a chaser if it didn’t have that weird, clunky landing. Can be traited down to 16s CD.

You can cancel the landing animation by swapping in a kit and out of it (with weapon swap hotkey) during the jump. You will not execute the landing animation, dealing no damage but also be free to move on instantly after landing.

Karast.1927:

@ Deniara

I’ve been working on that a while and to be honest the only things I have really come up with is a limited amount of water field usage off the healing turret, stacking multiple blast finishers with thumper, and general group support with cleansing / light fields from elixir gun.

Combined with a bit of rifle dps.

But in organized play we are really in a bad spot balance wise, and to be honest we are a weak link with retaliation as is it.

Retaliation shuts down grenade, FT, and PP in any serious fight. You can’t take incoming aoe, ontop of 5-12k froms your own skills. Bomb kit is to situational, tool kit is to ST focus with 1/3.

So that’s about it. I am not saying it’s absolutely horrible, but your guild gets much more out of another warrior, guardian, ele, or theif in your spot. So your more for fringe and flavour than anything else.

But being able to drop 2-4 blast finishers on demand gives you someone of a niche role as a burst healer.

I fully agree with you on everything you wrote. I am also using rifle, as it suits those big group fights better, especially as a commander. Good enemy teams have lots of condition removal, thus pistol wouldn’t be that effective. And some are using lemongrass + melandru runes (-65% condition duration), which pretty much kills the condition builds with a simple passive solution.

Retaliation does still full damage on the borderlands. And even at Eternal Battlegrounds retaliation can still do huge damage if you throw grenade at tightly packed enemy melee train. Without any internal cooldown or anything, retaliation is simply too strong passive defense against fast repeating attacks and attacks which can hit more lots of people e.g. flame jet and barrage. I can know that retaliation is good because I am using it all the time from combo fields myself e.g. elixir gun #5 + rifle #5 and elixir gun #4. Two combo retaliations in a row. And I have seen enemies die to this.

But as a blast finisher, I think thief is superior. Engineer needs a certain weapon set and lots of kits or turrets to have those 4 blast finishers. Thief can just shortbow #2 (cluster bomb). Take quick recovery (master trait) and infiltrator’s signet and you can spam those cluster bombs almost non-stop. Cluster bomb also does huge area damage, much better than those engineer blast finishers which have a low cool down e.g. acid bomb (elixir gun #4).

I am not saying that engineer is totally bad, but it definitely isn’t among top WvWvW or pve professions. Engineers are strong holding points in tpvp, but that’s not the case in WvWvW. I hope Arenanet would at some point buff engineers for pve and WvWvW. So far been they have been buffing warrior so much it no longer makes any sense for pve. Warrior has been always very good in pve, why keep buffing it for pve? But I guess they want to avoid the pvp/WvWvW/pve split as much as possible.

I feel that Elixir S should be reverted back for pve and WvWvW, no longer disabling all skills.

Well you run with a rifle. Use the kit-swap Jumpshot bug. It’ll make Jumpshot act like as 1200range charge. And then you wont have the land delay at the end, landing is instant so you can keep running.
Its even better then RTL, you can jump gaps and such that only an Engineer can. Using that bug.

Its your best bet tbh.

Terrahero.9358:

Well you run with a rifle. Use the kit-swap Jumpshot bug. It’ll make Jumpshot act like as 1200range charge. And then you wont have the land delay at the end, landing is instant so you can keep running.
Its even better then RTL, you can jump gaps and such that only an Engineer can. Using that bug.

Its your best bet tbh.

INB4 Nerf. /15 Charrs

You’re not a Thief, a Mesmer or a D/D Elementalist, which means you’ll have to be very careful, yes.

For my part I’m not really fed up about it, I find myself tanky enough to run away to safety with 1 – 2 people constantly attacking me and without counting the Box of Nails, the Glue Shot and eventually the Slick Shoes, but yes, you got to watch around you all the time. Price to pay for not being a “Cookie cutter wannabe 360° headshot noscope dark shadow assassin”, but on the bright sight you’re pretty much a dead end to most of classes meeting you.

lunyboy.8672:

Terrahero.9358:

Well you run with a rifle. Use the kit-swap Jumpshot bug. It’ll make Jumpshot act like as 1200range charge. And then you wont have the land delay at the end, landing is instant so you can keep running.
Its even better then RTL, you can jump gaps and such that only an Engineer can. Using that bug.

Its your best bet tbh.

INB4 Nerf. /15 Charrs

Technically it would be a fix, because Jump Shot works totally unlike normal. But this is an oooold bug, its been around since, well, i’d say launch even. Its been reported many times aswell, infact i learned about it on this forum.

Its tied into a general bug that happens when swapping out of anything really, not just kits. For instance on my necro, in the same way, i put Marks right underneath myself without ground targetting.
So its a general weaponswap bug that affects all professions. Jump Shot just happens to be an exceptional case where this bug is actually beneficial. So it would be a little more complex then just fixing Jump Shot.

Terrahero.9358:

lunyboy.8672:

Terrahero.9358:

Well you run with a rifle. Use the kit-swap Jumpshot bug. It’ll make Jumpshot act like as 1200range charge. And then you wont have the land delay at the end, landing is instant so you can keep running.
Its even better then RTL, you can jump gaps and such that only an Engineer can. Using that bug.

Its your best bet tbh.

INB4 Nerf. /15 Charrs

Technically it would be a fix, because Jump Shot works totally unlike normal. But this is an oooold bug, its been around since, well, i’d say launch even. Its been reported many times aswell, infact i learned about it on this forum.

Its tied into a general bug that happens when swapping out of anything really, not just kits. For instance on my necro, in the same way, i put Marks right underneath myself without ground targetting.
So its a general weaponswap bug that affects all professions. Jump Shot just happens to be an exceptional case where this bug is actually beneficial. So it would be a little more complex then just fixing Jump Shot.

I agree. To me the funniest part is how when you use it, it feels so intentional. The animation looks great, the timing is great, the distance is great.

What if this rifle bug…. ….is how it was meant to be???

Meant to be this way? No, at least not the range, but fixing the kitten idle bug on landing would be a great start. Oh, and same would apply on the Rocket Boots while we’re at it.

I dont see whats wrong with the range to be honest, i think 1200 range is what it should be.

Ow and as a little funfact, about the landing delay, a similar ability exists on some environmental weapon iirc in Frostgorge, that also has a Jump Shot ability. And that works without delay. Also, the delay is shortened if you are under effect of Quickness.

So its not even a bug, they deliberately set a wrong delay… or perhaps, this is intented. Heck we got more contrived mechanics then this.

@Deniara

thief is better for consistant blast finisher. But there is still a way to compete.

What we can do that others can not is to drop multiple blast finishers at the same time.

For example if you use thumper, drop + overcharge then detonate + tool belt you will get 3 blast finishers all at the same time + the knock back around the turret.

If you practice you can drop it on the healing turret toolbelt for a cool 3.6-4.5k aoe heal.

Depending on your build you can get 4 additional blast finishers with EG, supply crate, healing turret, and then another turret, bomb kit, or mine gadget.

7 total.

The good thing about the turrets is you can drop them before you push in, and when you detonate the blast triggers off you now, not off the turrets. So you can have 2-3 blasts ready to go before the fight starts.

If you go Static Discharge with a sigil of fire, this can be pretty good dps, ontop of the healing.

My current build is

0 30 20 0 20

pretty much rifle traits + prot proc / power shoes, and then SD and either kit refinement or speedy kits.

You can swap the 20 to alchemy if you like as well.

I tend to run invader gear with cleic orbs.

But it is pretty much burst dps + burst healing.

It is the best I have been able to come up with atm. But I am also working on leveling up my warrior, so that pretty much sums up how it is right now.

I think if ret got toned down or at least had a GCD on ticks it would be a different story and FT / Grenade could become the focus for great builds, but ret kills everything as it stands.

Check out my streaming with engineer:

http://www.twitch.tv/katheykane

Feedback welcome! I am really noob streaming.