Guild Wars 2

So, now we are on the radar again (boy does the beta feel like a long time ago).
This time it isn’t because we instantly burst someone from inside them, or revive ourselves or because of loading people up with such a conditionburst that they die faster than to a powerbuild.

It’s because we are good at knocking people out of circles. Yup. That makes us rule the one gamemode that the game got in a structured format. Funny how the class supposed to be all about holding ground, controlling and delivering area denial is really good in that role. Anyways the build in focus is simply called the “Decap Engi”, and while there is a lot of confusion about exactly what this build is people seem to agree to the view that a decap engineer use:

1. Heavy CC. Uses rifle and other CC like airblast to launch people off the point and follow up with netshot to ensure a decap versus one player.
2. Defensive stats. Rolls high healingpower and toughness to be immortal in 1vs1.
3. Healing turret. Uses Healing turret for uninterruptable large aoe heal and conditionremoval with a knockback from traiting.
4. Immunity. Picks automated response to be unkillable against condition builds.
5. Insta win elite. Supplydrop for a instant win against any class.

Example:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIq6Zn1yuF17IxoCdO0jCbf1K6R+tsjB-TgAgzCmIMSZkzIjRSjsGB

Now what people admit that it doesn’t do well:

1. Kill. Anything really, clerics amulet makes sure you will never be a threat to anyone.
2. Mobility. But since you are always busy figthing him on one point he will never have to move right?
3. Stability and stunbreaks. Yeah people can decap from a decap engi cap rather easily, but the point is that the point never really is your point. Get the point?
4. Team support. Healing turret excluded you won’t push out as much support as a midbunker would prefer to do, meaning that you go for the sidecaps.

So what we got in the public eye is a unkillable CCmonster who goes even more immortal against condition users who use a overpowered uninterruptable heal and instant cast CC to decap (not necessary hold) sidepoints. And if you put up resistance with stability or what have you he will kill you with a flick of supply crate. Everyone is apparently now running this engineer and it is ruining pvp. He can’t kill you, and he does not do a stand in for the guardian who have occupied mid since release and neither does he hold it from you since he is even more open to CC than you are and its does not move well between points but its bad for everyone.

So thats me playing a bit of devils advocate and devils advocates devils advocate.

What would i hope to see here? I would want to see fellow engineer’s give their ideas for reasonable changes and opinions on what should and should not stay.

It’s better that we do it than to find next patch that our shield has been removed from the game, that flamethrower does not apply burning, that healing turret now does not create a waterfield and heal but simply gives the regeneration boon, that rifle skills now heal the enemy and that turrets gets nerfed because of a elite or something (oh wait…). Jokes aside there’s such a confusion around engineer’s right now that anything, and i do mean anything risks collateral damage.

Part of this might be because of our relative diversity, people see a lot of engineers and assume that decap is the only possible build, meaning that this needs to be removed when in reality most might simply be rabid engineers with a bit of CC in their build. Thus not only does the problem factors described above risk a nerf but unrelated things like other weapons, utilities and roles. Its even possible to complain about static discharge engineers in these threads and no one except a engineer would raise an eyebrow.

Therefore we need to control the damage, because we might know better what got to do with the build(s) and what does not.

Also it might be a problem with the one gamemode we got, and not with the profession. *hint*more gamemodes please*hint*

To start things off:

Automated response:
This really gets the blood boiling for any necromanc-… sorry i meant condition class. I say its both a well designed and badly designed trait. It would be good if there where other traits for other professions with high risk-high reward concepts to act as a buffert soloution for when a certain build type starts trending through the roof. Be it condition builds, extreme CC, extreme spike or what have you. The shared factor should be a high risk or difficulty to get to use it coupled with a high reward for doing it. To empower yourself against a certain situation but getting exposed to others. For structured pvp atleast this would encourage a better teamplay where the ideal setup is as diverse as possible and where you coordinate and swap tasks with your teammates. Now gw2 isn’t necessary that game so as much as it pains me to admit (power based balanced AR engineer roamer) it might have to get a rework, if nothing else then to make sure nothing else is nerfed for its sake. This does not mean that we should totally kit-refine it into oblivion like the other classes and developers would like for example making it trigger at 25% health with a 5 sec immunity to conditions and have a 60+ seconds cooldown. Instead if we could see a major rework that preserves its valuable contribution to our defense and staying power as well as its ability to create a gamechanger under certain conditions.

So here are some suggestions for the trait divided into different categories depending on role:

Condition removal based:

• Convert all conditions into health/boons when you are struck below 25% health. X seconds cooldown (medium). This gives the engineer who lacks a good option of condition removal outside of healingturret a good way to fight back against a necromancer, by giving him cleanses at low health, as long as he prevent’s the necromancer from getting him beneath 25% health within the recharge window.

• Lose/convert/transfer a condition on toolbelt usage. A common suggestion by engineers to allow it to be more generally applicable and reliable as a condition deterrent. Problem is that in a elixir based tree it does step on cleansing formula 404.

• You are immune to new conditions when you have 4 or more conditions on you. Engineers do have access to single condition clears from medkit, elixir gun and so on, this change would make them more reliable and protect from mindless condition spike from necromancers/grenade/bombs/PU mesmers etc. No more would signet of spite being a death sentence. Damaging conditions would still hurt, but it would be easier to clean them up and punish lack of thought. Of course it would never ever be applicable for pver’s but thats a general thing for all of these ideas and including its current state, not to mention a problem with pve.

Stability and stunbreaks based:

• You gain 2-3 seconds of stability when you are controlled below X% health(low to no icd) We do not have a particularly viable access to stability in the builds that need it. This idea would prevent chainstuns and encourage stunbreaks even in situations where you are bound to soon be hit again. A health limit would prevent it from being considered to powerful while still giving you a lift when you need it. Would be a nice trait against hammer warriors, mesmers and general wvw trains.
• when you are controlled while already being controlled you break out of stun and gain 1 second of stability (no icd) similar to above, encourages more careful use of CC and helps you in ganking situations.

• You are immune to crowd control when below X health. similar to AR, but not preventing you from being killed from a certain stat combination.

cont^

Stealth based:

• Gain 1-2 seconds of stealth when you loose more than X health in a single second(low icd). stealth is generally considered a drawback in a spvp environment. Yeah points again. So if PU mesmers are not considered a problem because they can’t capture a point, then why can’t we do something similar. This trait is similar to thieves traits, but the idea here is a short cooldown, ultra short duration stealth to prevent being focused to hard in a teamfight on a profession that lacks stealth increase or general trait support.

• Gain x seconds of stealth when you stand still for more than x seconds in combat, breaks on movement(icd x seconds). A odd idea and very niche that is not really directed for spvp, but for wvw, where smart use of other stealths as well as line of sight could save you from larger forces passing by. Would probably take a lot of flak though.

Mobility based:

• Blink away from your enemy when struck by a melee attack below x health(ICD medium) Yet another tool to prevent training, similar to a thief trait, but different in conditions, and yeah the thief trait needs something too. Could use a portal/lightning effect with a telegraphed delay before blinking to give both you and your enemy time to react (1 second).

• when hit by crowd control, run twice as fast for X seconds. Does not break stun. Combined with rocket boots or other leaps like acid bomb or when hit by chill/cripple this could be a lifesaver for the opportunist. Effect identical to super speed.

• when you are below X health, run twice as fast. Similar to above but without a duration and a health requirement instead. This would give us some serious disengage options.

Offensive based (okay yeah, we do have HGH in the tree, but this still is food for thought):

• Gain might and fury when struck by crowd control.This might seem a bit excessive considering that its sistertrait also gives might, the idea here being that the more you push the engineer around the more enraged he gets.

• deal X percent more damage for every condition on you, conditions are reduced by X percent duration for every boon on you. This can serve as a way to achieve retribution for a power user against a heavy condition environment, and encourage good usage of boonstrips.

Everyone is welcome to post your ideas for interesting change to help us avoiding a broad kitrefinement while still allowing new gameplay possibilities.

Seriously, the sPvP-whining is getting tiresome. Yes, single combat situations aren’t balanced, alright. They never will be. Give up, campaign for balance to actually balanceable game modes. :S

(and yes, smallscape PvP in RPG class systems cannot be balanced if the sides are smaller than the number of effective classes)

miriforst.1290:

Convert all conditions into health/boons when you are struck below 25% health. X seconds cooldown (medium).

i like this idea. please replace automated response with this.

Imo the whole decap spec is a game mode / conquest design problem. Conquest just makes tanky CC easy to abuse.

Well, since they most likely won’t change conquest mechanics or edit maps, before pulling of another kit refinement they could just nerf knockback/launch distances (in sPvP only, or even only on point). The good thing about that would be that it’d allow to keep current mechanics, skill and trait functions and since it’s “only” about numbers, they can tweak them to a extent at which they think it is fine, without completely devaluating knockbacks as CC options. They wouldn’t even have to destroy the whole build (even though it’s hated by many), they could just tone it down.

AR is a different and controversial topic on it’s own.

I’ve been playing a bunker guardian in PvP and I love when I see someone try decap engi. I can almost see the surprise on their face when they drop Big Ol Bomb and it doesn’t launch me while I proceed to knock them out of the point and immob them. They run back in and I knock them out and immob them again with my other weapon set. Yes, two can play at this game. AR? Sorry, AR doesn’t help you against chained CC. Hammer ring a ding ding!

(Note: the majority of decap engis seem to be noobs to engineer. Once in awhile I come across someone who actually knows what they are doing.)

Chaba.5410:

I’ve been playing a bunker guardian in PvP and I love when I see someone try decap engi. I can almost see the surprise on their face when they drop Big Ol Bomb and it doesn’t launch me while I proceed to knock them out of the point and immob them. They run back in and I knock them out and immob them again with my other weapon set. Yes, two can play at this game. AR? Sorry, AR doesn’t help you against chained CC. Hammer ring a ding ding!

(Note: the majority of decap engis seem to be noobs to engineer. Once in awhile I come across someone who actually knows what they are doing.)

You must be fighting really bad engis, lol. 20 second cd on boonrip (Bugged, should actually be 15), instant cast blind, low cd block.

Yes. That’s the wonderful thing about flavor of the month builds :-)

I don’t have a problem with AR. It is more that it takes no skill to just run around in circles and drop bombs and grenades. That plus all the blast finishers for healing make the spec over the top.

There’s already been a dev response to a thread on the Profession Balance forums. It called for a nerf, but based dev says they won’t play whack-a-mole and they think the build actually isn’t very good right now. They also said that hopefully March 18 patch would change things for everyone, which might indirectly address the problem.