[Suggestion] True Diversty
Personally I hate the fact that all the new traits are in the grandmaster line, especially since a lot of them don’t even fit there.
Your “floating” idea, I’m afraid, won’t solve the problem of diversity. It may solve the problem of accessibility but not build diversity.
If they want more build diversity, they need better traits. Or better skills, Or better skill interactions or all of the above.
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I noticed alot of mentions in your post about the upcoming changes to the classes that you would like to improve diversity in builds. I read that as part of the goal for the last feature pack, but what I don’t understand is why you continue to limit diversity.
If you are going to accuse someone of intentionally limiting something like build diversity, you should at least do the world the courtesy of explaining how you feel they are doing so, otherwise it comes off as unspecified flaming.
Here’s a suggestion that would free up diversity in all classes. Unlock the XIII traits. They can remain in the grandmaster traits column that’s fine but allow people the ability to make their own builds after they’ve earned these traits
I do not understand what your saying here. Want to clarify that a bit.
For example, it would benefit greatly a support Explosive Condition build Engineer to be able to be grandmaster in both the Explosives and Inventions lines.
You can already do that now in a 6/x/6/x/x build.
Another example, it would benefit greatly a Turret build Engineer the ability to use Synaptic Overload.
That would probably benefit any build. Why does this benefit turret builds over others?
Some traits are still locked out because of the need for certain essentials, in order to improve diversity they should float so that they are available for every build. If you plan on adding XIV traits in the future those two should float. By float I mean that the Synaptic Overload could be used in the Grandmaster Slot on the Firearms or Tools Grandmaster Columns.
I think that is a very bad idea. Traits worked like that pre-release and and it waaaaay worse then its is now as far as limiting diversity. They actually even stated that they could look at traits used, and the ability to select traits in the manner your suggesting, caused everyone to gravitate towards the same traits.
The way I see it, is that the only way to make stats outside of direct damage stats matter, is to cause toughness to reduce damage way more then it does. Double healing power scaling, have a stat that reduces condition damage similar to toughness, and so on. Right now the benefit of condition+precision is so strong in PvP and precision+ferocity is so beneficial in PvE that they minimize other stats value to near nothing. The ability to dodge also minimizes the need for defensive stats.
Personally I hate the fact that all the new traits are in the grandmaster line, especially since a lot of them don’t even fit there.
Couldn’t agree more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c
I noticed alot of mentions in your post about the upcoming changes to the classes that you would like to improve diversity in builds. I read that as part of the goal for the last feature pack, but what I don’t understand is why you continue to limit diversity.
If you are going to accuse someone of intentionally limiting something like build diversity, you should at least do the world the courtesy of explaining how you feel they are doing so, otherwise it comes off as unspecified flaming.
Here’s a suggestion that would free up diversity in all classes. Unlock the XIII traits. They can remain in the grandmaster traits column that’s fine but allow people the ability to make their own builds after they’ve earned these traits
I do not understand what your saying here. Want to clarify that a bit.
For example, it would benefit greatly a support Explosive Condition build Engineer to be able to be grandmaster in both the Explosives and Inventions lines.
You can already do that now in a 6/x/6/x/x build.
Another example, it would benefit greatly a Turret build Engineer the ability to use Synaptic Overload.
That would probably benefit any build. Why does this benefit turret builds over others?
Some traits are still locked out because of the need for certain essentials, in order to improve diversity they should float so that they are available for every build. If you plan on adding XIV traits in the future those two should float. By float I mean that the Synaptic Overload could be used in the Grandmaster Slot on the Firearms or Tools Grandmaster Columns.
I think that is a very bad idea. Traits worked like that pre-release and and it waaaaay worse then its is now as far as limiting diversity. They actually even stated that they could look at traits used, and the ability to select traits in the manner your suggesting, caused everyone to gravitate towards the same traits.
The way I see it, is that the only way to make stats outside of direct damage stats matter, is to cause toughness to reduce damage way more then it does. Double healing power scaling, have a stat that reduces condition damage similar to toughness, and so on. Right now the benefit of condition+precision is so strong in PvP and precision+ferocity is so beneficial in PvE that they minimize other stats value to near nothing. The ability to dodge also minimizes the need for defensive stats.
Personally I hate the fact that all the new traits are in the grandmaster line, especially since a lot of them don’t even fit there.
Couldn’t agree more.
PoE and Skyforge would like to have a word with you on diversity. It does work it can work and you can have multiple ways of getting to that diversity without it breaking a game. This system is terrible as a design and the XIII traits are clear example.
You sound just as bad as the people who claim this game is casual, LOL Wildstar is more casual than this title.
As for the 6/x/6/x/x build you can’t not really not without disabling the only real condition removal tool that’s useful on the engineer as a support engineer. The 3 points you simply have to have in Elixir in order to survive. That’s the essential problem ever since they destroyed kit refinement’s free heal that’s what’s been going on with this character class.
I’ve explained how they haven’t helped diversity in the second paragraph but let me expand upon it so you’ll see what I mean more clearly. The lack of weapon choices, the locked XIII traits that ironically where put there to improve diversity but haven’t, the lack of new skills (not counting of course the few and far between healing skills).
Diversity…
(edited by tigirius.9014)
PoE and Skyforge would like to have a word with you on diversity. It does work it can work and you can have multiple ways of getting to that diversity without it breaking a game. This system is terrible as a design and the XIII traits are clear example.
Wait, so your actually trying to claim that 2 instanced playing locations have to do with build diversity? I thought you were going to explain your ridiculousness, not get more…..well…ridiculous.
You sound just as bad as the people who claim this game is casual, LOL Wildstar is more casual than this title.
I do? Sorry to hear that. I would like you to prove that casual play cannot be fun and enjoyable though.
Do I think it is casual? I do not think the game is anything but fun as far as I am concerned. You still have yet to hash out any reasons why diversity is limited in your opinion. For all of your odd claims, I would think you would jump at the chance to do so.
As for the 6/x/6/x/x build you can’t not really not without disabling the only real condition removal tool that’s useful on the engineer as a support engineer. The 3 points you simply have to have in Elixir in order to survive. That’s the essential problem ever since they destroyed kit refinement’s free heal that’s what’s been going on with this character class.
That doesn’t make any sense unless you are trying to play a selfish, self reliant style. Intelligent players use friends and guildies to group with, to fill the gaps. Why do I need stability or cleansing in my build at all when I have a shout warrior and shout guardian in my group that offer all of that a player can ask for. I offer more conditions, CC, additional AoE heals, and fields to blast…….
I’ve explained how they haven’t helped diversity in the second paragraph but let me expand upon it so you’ll see what I mean more clearly. The lack of weapon choices, the locked XIII traits that ironically where put there to improve diversity but haven’t, the lack of new skills (not counting of course the few and far between healing skills).
No, you literally haven’t explained anything at all up to this point. All you have explained is your opinion on a single trait, kit refinement. If you really think that this particular single trait defines a professions over all ability to be diverse, then the problem.
We have enough diversity that in PvP the community feels our turret builds are OP. We are considered one of the best decap professions, we thrive in all aspects of WvW from front line commanding in a zerg, to tower defense, to tower assault, to roaming. We are in the top 3 in damage output in PvE. In each and every one of those cases, a very different build is used. We literally might have the most build diversity out of all the professions.
Do we need more, yes, I feel we do. You seem to think I am disagreeing with your point. I am not, I am simply disagreeing with your noncontributing, accusatory, uninformed claims in your original post. Personally I feel that if they can do a little more for gadgets, which it appears they are trying to do, then we will have A LOT of build options. They are finally doing good things with the FT kit as well. Your going to town in your accusatory attack fest in the OP 3 weeks before changing come in, that you do not have experience with yet. It is not your point I disagree with. it is the way you claim to be the key to “true” diversity as if your ideas are cannon. Yet your ideas were tried in the beta and where an utter and massive disaster. When informed of this, you go out of your way to ignore it. This demonstrates that you do not actually care about diversity, but that you just care about getting your way, whether it is good for the rest of us or not.
I love your attachment by the way, it applies to your original post perfectly, thanks for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c
“We have enough diversity that in PvP the community feels our turret builds are OP. We are considered one of the best decap professions, we thrive in all aspects of WvW from front line commanding in a zerg, to tower defense, to tower assault, to roaming. We are in the top 3 in damage output in PvE. In each and every one of those cases, a very different build is used. We literally might have the most build diversity out of all the professions. "
Cookie cutter builds =/= diverse gameplay. I’ll say it again since you keep missing the point. Diversity doesn’t exist in this game in PVE (yes I left out the PVE part) until they fixit here’s a suggestion.
They put these XIII traits into the game to improve diversity and all they did was create a new set of cookie cutter builds but I guess you missed that part too somehow hmmm. The beta actually was the best combat that the engineer has ever had. We weren’t restricted because whiners in PVP couldn’t learn to play their class and then had that spill over into PVE over and over and ad nauseum over again just like in every other title but I guess you’d call that innovation right? The repeat of a meme and then the denial that it exists seems to permeate this entire internet, it’s amazing to me that people like you don’t walk into doors.
The float XIII suggestion is only 1 suggestion, but feel free to check out the archive of the entire list of suggestions they threw out the window to keep this game in beta perpetually, though I’m sure you’ll call that some other word that doesn’t fit as well.
“We have enough diversity that in PvP the community feels our turret builds are OP. We are considered one of the best decap professions, we thrive in all aspects of WvW from front line commanding in a zerg, to tower defense, to tower assault, to roaming. We are in the top 3 in damage output in PvE. In each and every one of those cases, a very different build is used. We literally might have the most build diversity out of all the professions. "
Cookie cutter builds =/= diverse gameplay. I’ll say it again since you keep missing the point. Diversity doesn’t exist in this game in PVE (yes I left out the PVE part) until they fixit here’s a suggestion.
They put these XIII traits into the game to improve diversity and all they did was create a new set of cookie cutter builds but I guess you missed that part too somehow hmmm. The beta actually was the best combat that the engineer has ever had. We weren’t restricted because whiners in PVP couldn’t learn to play their class and then had that spill over into PVE over and over and ad nauseum over again just like in every other title but I guess you’d call that innovation right? The repeat of a meme and then the denial that it exists seems to permeate this entire internet, it’s amazing to me that people like you don’t walk into doors.
The float XIII suggestion is only 1 suggestion, but feel free to check out the archive of the entire list of suggestions they threw out the window to keep this game in beta perpetually, though I’m sure you’ll call that some other word that doesn’t fit as well.
Nope, that won’t fix PvE.
To fix PvE you need more diverse mobs that require different approches to counter. Seeing as all mobs in PvE need the exact same treatment, everyone plays the same builds.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ceimash
http://www.twitch.tv/ceimash