Guild Wars 2

Superior Sigil of Earth or Geomancy:
That is the question isn’t it? Let’s take a deeper look at these sigils.

Superior Sigil of Earth:
60% Chance on Critical: Inflict Bleeding (5 Seconds).
This effect has a 2 second cooldown.
So in a 10 second time period one can at max apply 5 stacks of bleed that runs for duration of 5 seconds. For example, sake we will use 100 damage per tick for bleed as our base. So let’s do the math:
Damage per tick x duration x stacks so………
100 × 5 × 5 = 2500 damage
That’s the most you can get out of this sigil every 10 seconds. However, if you don’t have that high of crit chance or just plain bad luck you will only get 4 bleeds. That’s only 2000 damage. If you are using AoE skills this will probably keep you pegged at the max stacks.
So what kind of benefits does one get running Sigil of Earth?
+Can apply bleeding from any range
+Can do about 2500 damage to a single target
+Very reliable if you have high crit chance

What are some negatives?
-Only applies to one target
-Cooldown is two seconds long
-Expensive (well compared to Geomancy)

Now let’s move onto Superior Sigil of Geomancy.

Superior Sigil of Geomancy:
Inflict Bleeding on nearby foes for 7 seconds when you swap to this weapon while in combat.
(Cooldown: 9 seconds)
-Inflicts 3 stacks of bleeding and deals damage.
-This effect shares cooldown with all sigils. If any sigil triggers a cooldown, no other sigils with cooldowns can activate for the duration.
-The effect radius is 240.
-Visual effect is similar to Ring of Earth.

Did you take all of that in? Alright let’s discuss it’s damage potential.

Damage per tick x duration x stacks so………
100 × 7 × 3 = 2100 damage
That’s the most you can get out of this sigil every 10 seconds. Since this is used on weapon swap it is not tied down by crit chance. This makes this sigil dependable damage and that it is an “intensity” item. Keep in mind that Superior Sigil of Earth the 5 max stacks have to be applied over a 10 second period, this applies the 2100 bleed damage instantly. As many of the Engineers know, intensity of conditions is very important. Also this is not a sigil that does single target damage like Superior Sigil of Earth, but can apply those 3 stacks to up to 5 targets. This makes this sigil very powerful if you are in an up close and personal type of Engineer. So if you are running P/P HGH with Prybar, Bomb or FT (when you run with the zerg) you are going to do more than Superior Sigil of Earth could ever do. Let’s look:
2100 × 5 = 10500 condition damage over 7 seconds
Superior Sigil of Earth can’t even remotely come close to this 10500 – 2500 = 8000 difference.
So what kind of benefits does one get running Superior Sigil of Geomancy?
+Can apply a high intensity bleed
+Can do 10500 AoE bleed damage to 5 targets
+Very reliable if you have low crit chance
+Cheap
+Has a very visible effect so you kind of have an idea when its cooldown is up

What are some negatives?
-Only has a 240 radius (must be used up close)
-Cooldown is 9 seconds long
-Does not do as much total bleed damage to a single target as Sigil of Earth

So now that you all have the run down on these two sigils let’s look at its applications:
P/P HGH Prybar:
This is by far one of the most popular right now. This build is mid-range to close range notable for the prybar and blowtorch. Sigil of Geomancy really shines because after you swap to P/P after you’re prybar to blowtorch the enemy you are going to proc the 2100 damage high intensity bleed. Tbh this is a must if you are running Prybar. As stated above, if you swap out Toolkit for FT when you meet up with the zerg this sigil is even better. If you don’t run with Prybar and you want to spend almost all time at medium range (like 700-900 range) Sigil of Earth is your ticket.
P/P HGH Grenades:
This is where it gets interesting. If you are a Grenade Engineer and you plan on getting in the thick of the fight and spamming grenades at point blank Superior Sigil of Geomancy is going to be a must. If you plan on more of a spam from max range you’re going to go Superior Sigil of Earth. You should be able to get those 5 stack every 10 seconds pretty easily.
Bomb:
This doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out, you really should be running Superior Sigil of Geomancy.
Elixir Gun Build:
This weapon really shines with the fact that it can keep range and weaken. I would highly suggest Superior Sigil of Earth.

I hope that I have helped you guys make the best sigil choice if you are stuck between these two sigils or are looking for something new. Please send some feedback or experiences that you would like to share.

Really nice study! This post makes it really apparent in which situation, which sigil should be used. I personally always for Geomancy, ‘cause I’m always in melee, but it’s nice to know that I should be going Earth for distance. ^^

I use Sigil of battle for obvious reason?!

Forestnator.6298:

I use Sigil of battle for obvious reason?!

3 stacks of might (105 CD & Power) equals the following damage increases:

Burn = 25dmg
Bleed = 5
Poision = 10
Confusion = 15

Sigil of Earth = 2500
Sigil of Geomancy = 2100 up to 10500

Easy decision for condition damage builds

Sigil of battle gives u 6 stacks of might easy on average. U must count it as 6 if u try to compare. LEt’s say u got 10 stacks a bleed up (which is easy with grenades, it can easily go up to 15-20) and posion all time (easy too) and half time burning + half time confusion:

Then you do about +180 Condition dmg per second x9 (comparing to cd equal to cd of geomancy) = +1620 AoE.

So 1620 is less then 2100 AoE (Geomancy) but: let’s say u got 1500 Power which is an usual value for condition-PvE build then 6 stacks of might mean 14% more direct dmg. Don’t underestimate this.

For PvP an usual condtion build has about 1100 Power —> 6 stacks of might = 19% more direct dmg.

Remember: this was worst case calculating: u can easily stack more then 10 stacks bleed, u can stack more then 6 stacks might (up to 9 for half time) and values were rounded down by me.

So Sigil of Battle > others for me.

Ok, double the values I posted above. Still doesn’t match either Sigil of Earth or Geomancy. Another thing you neglected to look at is that I counted condition damage per tick to be a base of 100, at most your going to gain on bleed 110, not 180. Sigil of Battle is only better than Sigil of Earth or Sigil of Geomancy if you are Direct (Power/Prec/Crit dmg) damage built.

P.S. I think you need to read the condition damage page on GW2 Wiki to understand 200+ condition damage isn’t going to be good as another skill procing. 200 condition damage = +10 bleed + base = 110
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Damage

10 stacks of bleed (worst case) with +210 conditions dmg = 10×10,5 = 105
poison + 210 condition dmg =21
burning (half of the time = x 0,5) = 26,25
confusion ( with 2 triggers in 10 sec = x0,2) = 6,3

= 158,55 dmg per second (worst case, only conditions).
Additional u got about14% more direct dmg in pve build and about 19% in pvp build. Don’t underestimate this. SoB is only about 600-700 dmg behind geomancy (also AoE, so 600-700 per enemie) in conditions but u also deal more direct damage and i am sure u will be able to do 4k-5k direct dmg in 10 sec to compensate this advantage from geomancy (in true case u deal even with full condition build about 6k-8k+ direct dmg in 10 seconds)

Also remember geomancy is melee.

To OP…

You’re forgetting with Geomancy, there is also a Direct Damage component in addition to the bleeds when you swap. It’s worth approx. 400-600 damage if your opponent is within the ring when you swap kits. That’s in addition to the bleeds. So, yeah, geomancy is pretty sweet.

Shiloh.4093:

To OP…

You’re forgetting with Geomancy, there is also a Direct Damage component in addition to the bleeds when you swap. It’s worth approx. 400-600 damage if your opponent is within the ring when you swap kits. That’s in addition to the bleeds. So, yeah, geomancy is pretty sweet.

Forgot about that. There you go even better

So, are u opening a thread about facts to be a fan boy finally? We don’t need to discuss if u want geomancy as best sigill. I don’t need to prove it to you that battle seems as the best/strongest sigil for most situations. I know it for myself and I see u don’t want it to be the best.

Even if I calculate battle with worst case it’s not much behind geomancy and still not melee. Calculation best case would show Sigil of Battle far ahead.

Cheers.

Goloith.6349:

Forestnator.6298:

I use Sigil of battle for obvious reason?!

3 stacks of might (105 CD & Power) equals the following damage increases:

Burn = 25dmg
Bleed = 5
Poision = 10
Confusion = 15

Sigil of Earth = 2500
Sigil of Geomancy = 2100 up to 10500

Easy decision for condition damage builds

I sure wish all my decisions were this easy.

So, this is how you run Sigil of Battle, and here are the actual numbers.

On Live, a 30 Alchemy build with 2hoelbrak, 2fire, 2strength runes can get +90% duration to might. This setup is optimal when you’re running a sigil of battle, but with condi builds I recommend using 2 Lyssa to get a third tick on Incendiary Powder trait.

Let’s just say you’re optimizing your might stacking for a good comparison – and use full might duration runes. For these numbers, you have a +90% duration.

20 Second duration*(1+.9Duration) = 38 Second duration
38 Second duration / 9 Second cooldown = 12.66 Permanent might stacks (4.22*3)
12.66 Permanent might stacks = 443.10 Permanent power & condition damage, after maximum stacks have been achieved over 36 seconds, and player skill error reduces this.

So when you get the Sigil rolling, how much effective damage will 400ish power and condition damage do for you from this sigil alone? How much better will your HGH trait be? All this is without any positional requirements.

I recommend running a set-up that supports your choices before running the numbers, in cases like this there’s a huge gap between what you initially value it at and what it’s worth.

;)

Keep in mind if you’re running with a Might-stacking build, your Pistol will hit for a lot more given you get 35 Power per stack. I would use Sigil of Strength over Battle though, because Battle takes a very long time to reach maximum potency—and requires you to use a kit on your bar.

Sigil of Strength + HGH with a P/P Condi build is actually really powerful. I can post some numbers later on but I need a cup of coffee first.

The point is to educate Engineers on the best Sigil choice based on their preferences. You entered the conversation with “I use Sigil of battle for obvious reason?!” without stating initially why because it is not obvious at all why a condition build would select Sigil of Battle over the popular Sigil of Earth. Then you go ahead and post flawed reasoning because you miss calculate how much additional condition tick damage you would achieve through +200 condition damage.

I’m not trying to belittle you Forest, I just want educate. I’ll go ahead and break down why Sigil of Battle is not as good as the other two sigils for condition based builds with a similar format.

Sigil of Battle:
Gain 3 stacks of Might (20 seconds) when you swap to this weapon while in combat.
These sigils have an internal 10 second cooldown.
These sigils are currently bugged with on-crit proccing sigils in the secondary weapon slot, and cannot work within 45 seconds of a crit proc effect.

So in a 10 second period of time you can generate 100 power & 100 condition damage.
This equates out to the following damage:
Burn = 25 × 6 seconds = 150 damage
Bleed = 5 × 2 seconds = 10 damage per stack x 10 stacks = 100 damage
Poision = 10 × 11.25 = 112.5
Confusion = 15 × 5 stacks = 75 damage
*Total consistent (without proc on crit) Condition Damage = 437.5

Tooltip damage = (average weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (level-based Armor value)

So at level 80,
=952.5 * 100 * (below)

• Coefficients:*
  P1 = 0.35 / 2600 = 12.82 × 10 shots = 128.20
  P2 = 0.40 (per dart, 5 darts) / 2600 = 73.27 (that’s calculating 5 darts)
  P3 = 0.40 (per bounce, 4 bounces) / 2600 = 58.62 (that’s if you hit 4 bounces)
  P4 (Close) = 0.99 / 2600 = 58.62
  P4 (Long) = 0.33 / 2600 = 36.27 (not optimal so not counted)
  P5 = 0.00

If you calculate the optimal direct damage cause, it calculates out to 296.37 over 10 seconds. That’s realistic since the cooldowns are 15 seconds on other skills

So let’s look at total damage to the enemy over 10 seconds

+Direct Damage 296.37
+Condition Damage applied 437.5
= 733.87*

Keep in mind this is just over 10 seconds. Now like you’ve mentioned before Forest that you can actually get 6 stacks of might if you are great at keeping track of timers at the 10 second mark. You now are rolling with 733.87 × 2 = 1467.74 total damage every 10 seconds with 6 stacks of might. That is still below 2100 or 2500 damage respectful. Even if you included proc on crit applications it will still fall short.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when you apply your next 3 stacks of might at the 10 second mark you could be applying your second round of damage from Sigil of Geomancy. So now your actually looking at 733.87 for first 10 seconds, 1467.74 for the next 10 seconds which puts you at 2201.61 over a 20 second period of time. With Sigil of Geomancy you can do 4200 in the same time frame (actually shorter @18 seconds). Sigil of Earth over a 20 second period of time will also do 5000 damage too.

So this is why for condition builds you’re better off going for condition sigils like Earth (single target) or Geomancy (AoE). Does that mean that Sigil of Battle is a bad sigil? Absolutely not, but one has to factor in the opportunity cost of not using the optimal sigil for it’s application. Sigil of Battle would do it’s best in Direct Damage builds with Rifle & Grenades since Grenades still have condition abilities. My Berserker Engineer uses Sigil of Battle all the time.

I hope I’ve helped you Forest. :-)

Chaith.8256:

Goloith.6349:

Forestnator.6298:

I use Sigil of battle for obvious reason?!

3 stacks of might (105 CD & Power) equals the following damage increases:

Burn = 25dmg
Bleed = 5
Poision = 10
Confusion = 15

Sigil of Earth = 2500
Sigil of Geomancy = 2100 up to 10500

Easy decision for condition damage builds

I sure wish all my decisions were this easy.

So, this is how you run Sigil of Battle, and here are the actual numbers.

On Live, a 30 Alchemy build with 2hoelbrak, 2fire, 2strength runes can get +90% duration to might. This setup is optimal when you’re running a sigil of battle, but with condi builds I recommend using 2 Lyssa to get a third tick on Incendiary Powder trait.

Let’s just say you’re optimizing your might stacking for a good comparison – and use full might duration runes. For these numbers, you have a +90% duration.

20 Second duration*(1+.9Duration) = 38 Second duration
38 Second duration / 9 Second cooldown = 12.66 Permanent might stacks (4.22*3)
12.66 Permanent might stacks = 443.10 Permanent power & condition damage, after maximum stacks have been achieved over 36 seconds, and player skill error reduces this.

So when you get the Sigil rolling, how much effective damage will 400ish power and condition damage do for you from this sigil alone? How much better will your HGH trait be? All this is without any positional requirements.

I recommend running a set-up that supports your choices before running the numbers, in cases like this there’s a huge gap between what you initially value it at and what it’s worth.

;)

Sigil of Battle has a 10 second cooldown. It would be sweet if it had a 9 second cooldown because you could go from 9 to 12 stacks. So only 9 stacks, but it at least gives you an 8 second buffer/forgiveness for stacking might.

So let’s look at the damage over 40 seconds to be fair.
First 10 secs = 733.87, next 10 sec = 1467.74, next 10 secs secs = 2201.61, next 10 secs 2201.61. So over a 40 second time period you are going to do 6604.83 total condition damage. Lets add 2000 condition damage for proc on crit to be generous. That’s 8604.83 damage with Sigil of Battle. Do some of the skills do AoE, yes, but it’s still going to fall short of Geomancy. Over a 40 second period of time Sigil of Earth would have inflicted 10000 to a single target, Sigil of Geomancy would have inflicted 8400 to a single target or 42000 damage if you hit 5 targets consistently over that 40 second time period.

Remember Battle is a buff and Earth Geomancy is treated like a skill. All your hard work stacking might from runes, food, traits will make Earth and Geomancy even better. What’s crit chance worth if you have no crit damage? Kinda like that.

Goloith.6349:

Chaith.8256:

Goloith.6349:

Forestnator.6298:

I use Sigil of battle for obvious reason?!

3 stacks of might (105 CD & Power) equals the following damage increases:

Burn = 25dmg
Bleed = 5
Poision = 10
Confusion = 15

Sigil of Earth = 2500
Sigil of Geomancy = 2100 up to 10500

Easy decision for condition damage builds

I sure wish all my decisions were this easy.

So, this is how you run Sigil of Battle, and here are the actual numbers.

On Live, a 30 Alchemy build with 2hoelbrak, 2fire, 2strength runes can get +90% duration to might. This setup is optimal when you’re running a sigil of battle, but with condi builds I recommend using 2 Lyssa to get a third tick on Incendiary Powder trait.

Let’s just say you’re optimizing your might stacking for a good comparison – and use full might duration runes. For these numbers, you have a +90% duration.

20 Second duration*(1+.9Duration) = 38 Second duration
38 Second duration / 9 Second cooldown = 12.66 Permanent might stacks (4.22*3)
12.66 Permanent might stacks = 443.10 Permanent power & condition damage, after maximum stacks have been achieved over 36 seconds, and player skill error reduces this.

So when you get the Sigil rolling, how much effective damage will 400ish power and condition damage do for you from this sigil alone? How much better will your HGH trait be? All this is without any positional requirements.

I recommend running a set-up that supports your choices before running the numbers, in cases like this there’s a huge gap between what you initially value it at and what it’s worth.

;)

Sigil of Battle has a 10 second cooldown. It would be sweet if it had a 9 second cooldown because you could go from 9 to 12 stacks. So only 9 stacks, but it at least gives you an 8 second buffer/forgiveness for stacking might.

So let’s look at the damage over 40 seconds to be fair.
First 10 secs = 733.87, next 10 sec = 1467.74, next 10 secs secs = 2201.61, next 10 secs 2201.61. So over a 40 second time period you are going to do 6604.83 total condition damage. Lets add 2000 condition damage for proc on crit to be generous. That’s 8604.83 damage with Sigil of Battle do some of the skills do AoE, yes, but it’s still going to fall short of Geomancy. Over a 40 second period of time Sigil of Earth would have inflicted 10000 to a single target, Sigil of Geomancy would have inflicted 8400 to a single target or 42000 damage to if you hit 5 targets consistently over that 40 second time period.

I have a lot of problems with how you are comparing these sigils. You are actually converting the might stacks into a damage value, and comparing that with the damage value of Geomancy/Earth that is easily measured.

If you apply many conditions or AoE many targets in that 10 second frame, each of those attacks are going to be greatly increased by the might stacks. It’s completely different then a proc for X damage. You can’t put a reliable damage number on might stacks benefit. Might stacks scale much higher if your activity level is high while under the effect of them. Earth and Geomancy are powerful, but individual attacks.

Saying Battle Sigil is 733.87 over 10 seconds, for example, is just over-simplified and completely inaccurate for almost all in-game encounters.

Your ‘numbers’ only reflect starting a battle with 0 Battle Sigil stacks. Geomancy is front loaded damage, and battle is based on ‘picking up momentum.’ After you’ve fully stacked and are keeping it stacked is when Battle peaks and gives the most benefit.

You can actually keep your might stacked and do many subsequent encounters fully or mostly fully loaded. You have to be spam critting immobilized enemies every 2 seconds for 40 seconds to get those numbers on Earth, or non-stop melee range Geomancy spam. It’s not reasonable at all. You only have to be in combat or take minor fall damage to use Battle – you don’t have to be attacking, or in range. Other than being boon stripped (which sucks) its not possible to counter Battle by dodging, or it missing.

Hopefully these things taken into consideration will help you to Theorycraft on your Engineer a little better.

Goloith.6349:

I’m not trying to belittle you Forest, I just want educate. …….. Now like you’ve mentioned before Forest that you can actually get 6 stacks of might if you are great at keeping track of timers at the 10 second mark.

Goloith.6349:

Sigil of Battle has a 10 second cooldown. It would be sweet if it had a 9 second cooldown because you could go from 9 to 12 stacks. So only 9 stacks, but it at least gives you an 8 second buffer/forgiveness for stacking might.

http://www.twitch.tv/chaithh/c/2125121

^^ This is all I have to say about those two comments.

I agree calculating the precise effect of Might stacks is near impossible, but the Earth vs Geomancy (you know, the actual point of this thread) is legitimate and makes for a tough decision in some builds.

I am going to change my HGH might stacking build soon. Just getting bored with it. Going to go with a condition build that doesn’t require 30 Alchemy.

While looking for the gear I’ll need I have done the Earth vs Geomancy calculations like you have and come to similar conclusions. I had decided on Earth partly because of that awesome 2s cooldown (I thought it was 5s) and partly because I am planning on keeping my distance with this new build, so it was kind of a no brainer. However it’s also going to have Coated Bullets for tons of AOE damage so it might be worth getting close just to proc Geomancy… Hmm. Wasn’t going to use a kit though.

I’ll have to think of it more now!

I use sigil of battle in WvW because if my conditions are getting cleansed constantly, I’d rather have them hit a little harder than add the extra bleeding stacks that probably won’t last for full duration. If they aren’t getting cleansed constantly, I’ll win anyway.

I do agree with the evaluation of earth vs. geomancy.

Chaith, we have to convert measurements to like terms to compare. If you’d like to talk to anyone in the field of science or mathematics they will tell you the same. One can put a reliable measure on might stackings total damage per single target on reliable skills and I illustrated that. The only thing one struggles with is proc on crit, and AoE. Geomancy is AoE, not single target BTW. Also the damage series I showed starts with 3 stacks, not zero. If you want to calculate 9 stacks up just sum up 2106.61 × 4. So that’s 8424 damage. Add the 2000 for proc on crit. Beats Sigil of Earth because it does AoE. As mentioned above by other players the one measure I did not include was Risk. That’s a valid counter argument to Earth or Geomancy. Be really cool if ANET had some statistics on cleansing rate and etc. Then again a good player will remove the condition probably at the same time regardless of the duration.

Edit: After looking at the skills there is a 12-15 second cooldown so the ability to get even a consistent 2106 damage in P/P might be tough.

Problem is that the rune of Earth won’t work if the Elixer build has no critical chance.

Id rather have the might affecting all my conditions and attacks than having bleeds that could be wiped right off as soon as it procs.

I’ll take sigil of battle.

I swap a lot of kits, so with Geomancy i’d likely accidentally use of the cooldown without actually hiting someone. And with Grenades there is a high direct damage component involved (aswell as prybar on Toolkit) that scale nicely of Might.

So i prefer the 6 stacks of might i can get out of Battle. Its reliable, works on range, works on multiple targets and i cannot waste it its always useful when it procs.

Such a large thread for such a simple problem…

1: Do you have decent crit chance?

• If yes: Sigil of Earth.

• If no: Go to 2

2: Are you mostly melee or ranged?

• If melee: Sigil of Geomancy

• If ranged: Sigil of Battle

ProxyDamage.9826:

Such a large thread for such a simple problem…

1: Do you have decent crit chance?

• If yes: Sigil of Earth.

• If no: Go to 2

2: Are you mostly melee or ranged?

• If melee: Sigil of Geomancy

• If ranged: Sigil of Battle

No that’s wrong.

1: Do you have decent crit chance?

• If yes: Sigil of Battle

• If no: Go to 2

2: Are you mostly melee or ranged?

• If melee: Sigil of Battle

• If ranged: Sigil of Battle

Sigil of Battle is the most powerful offensiv Sigil if u use it on cd and with engineer u do. That’s why anet told us in the last state of the game that it will get a change.

Anyone who talks about other offensiv sigils for enginer with at least one kit has no clue about math.

I see Sigil of Earth as redundant, because Sharpshooter trait (5 pts in Firearms) gives you a 30% chance to cause bleed for 3 seconds on criticals. Obviously you would need to have this trait selected, which I always do with my P/P build.

Soon.5240:

I see Sigil of Earth as redundant, because Sharpshooter trait (5 pts in Firearms) gives you a 30% chance to cause bleed for 3 seconds on criticals. Obviously you would need to have this trait selected, which I always do with my P/P build.

How does Sigil of earth effect Sharpshooter in any way? How does Sharpshooter effect Sigil of earth in any way?

Sigil of battle on the other hand increases your condition damage and withit sharpshooter trait. So what is the logic behind saying sigil of earth and ssharpshooter are stronger together then sigil of battle if simple maths can prove the opposite? :-o

Forestnator.6298:

Soon.5240:

I see Sigil of Earth as redundant, because Sharpshooter trait (5 pts in Firearms) gives you a 30% chance to cause bleed for 3 seconds on criticals. Obviously you would need to have this trait selected, which I always do with my P/P build.

How does Sigil of earth effect Sharpshooter in any way? How does Sharpshooter effect Sigil of earth in any way?

Sigil of battle on the other hand increases your condition damage and withit sharpshooter trait. So what is the logic behind saying sigil of earth and ssharpshooter are stronger together then sigil of battle if simple maths can prove the opposite? :-o

The man’s correct. Sigil of Earth does not make Sharpshooter redundant, or vice versa.

[tPvP Below]But I’m not on the same page about Sigil of Battle being the best in every scenario.

Sigil of Battle obviously scales on boon duration. The more might duration, the more attractive Sigil of Battle becomes. The more ways to apply conditions, the more attractive Sigil of Battle becomes.

At low +Boon Duration stat, or low condition application methods, I truly feel that Sigil of Doom, Geomancy, and Earth pull ahead. Sustained damage is a huge consideration, but rarely do people account for the fact that quickly re-applying conditions totally ruins people. Doom, Geomancy, and Earth are stacking conditions where you may have had none before – and forcing condition removal that’s often invaluable.

Forestnator.6298:

Soon.5240:

I see Sigil of Earth as redundant, because Sharpshooter trait (5 pts in Firearms) gives you a 30% chance to cause bleed for 3 seconds on criticals. Obviously you would need to have this trait selected, which I always do with my P/P build.

How does Sigil of earth effect Sharpshooter in any way? How does Sharpshooter effect Sigil of earth in any way?

Sigil of battle on the other hand increases your condition damage and withit sharpshooter trait. So what is the logic behind saying sigil of earth and ssharpshooter are stronger together then sigil of battle if simple maths can prove the opposite? :-o

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I think he’s just trying to point out that sharpshooter will stack bleeds on crit as well as sigil of earth, so they can effectively double your on crit bleed potential. I don’t think he’s saying they affect each other in any way otherwise.

Sigil of battle won’t work in a kitless build. There’s perhaps not a lot of kitless builds, but they are out there. In that sense, there’s no point in comparing the two together. Some of the old school p/p builds were kitless, and I still see people running them on the odd occasion.

Furthermore, you might stacks from sigil of battle can be removed, so they aren’t necessarily as reliable as you think. Of course, all bleed damage can be removed as well, but if you were facing a boon removal situation than sigil of earth could beat sigil of battle in that regard.

I see using the Sigil of Earth, along with Sharpshooter trait, as being similar to using two sigils of earth – one for each pistol. It will only add incrementally to the CHANCE to Bleed on Critical.

If you have Sharpshooter, you would be better served using another sigil in your available weapon slot.

Please correct me if I’m wrong.