Guild Wars 2

..holy kitten! That damage!

Is there something I’m missing or warrior is seriously OP/engineer is UP?

I’ve playing both characters with Rifles and warrior looks like is doing 2 to 3 times more damage than Engineer on long range.

As engi my ENTIRE burst deal up to 7k damage with 20(16)s CD (Jump Shot) and is rather HARD to perform, while as warrior I did up to 9k dmg with single skill EASILY, every 10(8)s at SAFE range.

Besides, autoattack on warrior’s rifle is so much better, similar damage, but warrior start with 200 more range, 4s bleed and the trait that gives piercing shots is conveniently packed with 20% CD reduction…

I can’t even say that engineer compensates that lack of damage by utility, because warrior seems to have kinda same amount of utility, not including extra 5k hp and some armor. For example “Fear Me!”, Insta rezz banner are REALLY powerful + rifle has bonus knockback that isn’t part of the combo and (if traited) 1s immobilize+cripple+fury boon on single 10s CD cooldown (and it looks like ordinary shot, it doesn’t shoot slow bigass net saying “dodge me”).

The output damage of the Warrior is a lot greater than the Engineer. I think it’s a little rabid to call them OP or UP but the warrior is one of the best classes when talking of DPS, while the engineer stands for one of the worst…

Engineer? One of the worst DPS? That’s kind of funny.
Grenade kit, rocket turret, flamer, condition-based build with the elixirgun, mortar. Try those out. While they’re not as easy to use as a warrior’s straightforward-brute-strength, in the end they should win at dealing better DPS.

Also, don’t judge a class based on it’s DPS. Warrior’s hundred blades deals more damage then the thief’s unload, yet it forces the warrior to stand still while channeling it.

Lastly, the HP difference is 3k, not 5k.

If you’re only looking at the Rifle (and/or Pistol), then yes the Warrior far outperforms the Engineer in terms of DPS. But the real DPS from the Engineer comes from the Weapon Kits (Grenade/Bomb/Flamethrower), which can deal at least 2x the damage that Pistols/Rifles can on average.

Yea, engi has kits, but then Warrior has meele weapons, like GS…

Bargaw.4832:

Yea, engi has kits, but then Warrior has meele weapons, like GS…

Does the GS have a 1500 range?

VakarisJ.5619:

Bargaw.4832:

Yea, engi has kits, but then Warrior has meele weapons, like GS…

Does the GS have a 1500 range?

Well, it wouldn’t be melee if it had 1500 range.

Anycase, Toolkit and Bomb Kit count are the Engineer’s “melee” kits. I personally use the Bomb Kit to great effect close-range, what with the smoke field, confusion bomb, and Big Ol Bomb.

Actually, by that I meant that the grenade kit has more power then the GS, further reinforcing the fact that the engineer is by no means worse then the warrior.

Grenade kit has insane dps, because of grandmaster trait that adds extra grenade.
It deals almost 3times more dmg than rifle. ~500×3 vs ~640, but I think there’s separate thread for that.
Also, grenades don’t work in sPVP.

The grenade kit is useful, but only against AI. Anyone with half a brain is going to step away from the red circles.

Also, remember that a warrior can easily hit 10k-15k with HB, has several tools to ensure their targets stay still for the whole duration, and by sacrificing two utilities can put up stability and frenzy to guarantee one death.

Don’t forget the thief’s Pistol Whip – the lesser version of hundred blades with a stun and evasion that’s usable at least 2-3 times in a row. Or the mesmer’s Blurred Frenzy, which has a immobilize and evasion, also on a 8s CD.

All those are melee skills that root their caster in place and provide incredible damage. Honestly, I don’t mind the fact that HB does that much damage. At least it doesn’t do it while making its caster invulnerable!

Hm… quote function is missing again… anyway:

By Bargaw
<…>
Also, grenades don’t work in sPVP.

What do you mean by that? That you can’t hit anyone with them or are the restricted?

By irakai
The grenade kit is useful, but only against AI. Anyone with half a brain is going to step away from the red circles.
<…>

Well, people already do get hit by cannons, trebuchets, catapults and instant-effect AoE abilities, so I see no reason why you’d have any more of an issue to hit someone with grenades from the kit. Also, as far as I know, only the tool-belt ability that comes with the kit makes a red circle – normal grenade attacks don’t.

Even Grenade Barrage(the toolbelt skill) hits so fast after cast that the red circle doesn’t mean much.
However, the big flaw with the grenades and apparently why they do so much damage, is that they are hard to hit on moving targets AND hard to hit while you are moving yourself. It is an absolute pain to throw grenades while trying to move in anything but a straight line, forwards or backwards. It is doable, but extremely hard and not reliable.

I really wish there was a simpler system for grenade tossing that could be toggled on or off to make high movement encounters(PvP or PvE) work better for Grenadier Engineers. Something like a toggle to make grenades automatically toss at your currently selected target when pressed. Toggle it back off for the current grenade throw mode. Sure, it wouldn’t be perfect, but it would help alleviate a lot of bad situations where you need to be moving around a lot, but your target is mostly stationary(or very close).

That, or they need to implement a much higher DPS output method for engineers to compete with Grenadier output. At the moment, none of our other weapon kits have even close to the same output, including bombs. It doesn’t matter if you are a condition damage build or a power build even, because they grenades do both better than everything else :/

I don’t know… I picked up the engineer not long ago, and so far, I love the high-skill high-reward grenade kit gameplay. I see no reason why their damage along with the skill requirement should be reduced. There are other kits for those that don’t want to bother with them, but me – I rebound my keys just so I could use that awesome thing!

Oh and, at longer range, grenades take a longer time to travel, thus the red circle saying there for longer before impact.

I just made the opposite switch as the OP. Warrior is fun and HB does rock, but I like the Grenades and Flamethrower…. I do second that there should be a GTAoE toggle to enter the AoE on your current target. The Secret World has this, why can’t GW2?

I wanted to love the Engineer class but then I made a Ranger and that just ruined it for me and so did Rifle Warrior and Pistol Thief. Sorry engineer I will come back to you when your less under powered.

Well, personally, I’ve been playing thief since the early start, getting a necro alt just a week ago and a few days ago – engineer. So far, I like the engineer the most, so I guess it’s just a preference and personal experience that makes you like/hate a class and think of it as UP or OP.

11k damage from killing blow on rifle

I believe the reasoning is that the engineer has more in the way of CC.
Now, whether that balances out the relatively lower damage or not … i suppose everyone has to decide that for themselves.
Personally i think the engineer weapons (and some weapon kits) could do with some more damage – but that’s just me.

I find warriors and engineers to be polar opposites. The engineer is all flash, but not much punch. Warriors, though, are dps monkeys, but they are the blandest profession in gw2 by far. Banners are fun, but signets and stances are boring.

Yet, as an Engineer I am able to 1vs1 any warrior out there, if I see him coming. Especially the lousy crit/power glasscannons. Just dodge their rush/bulls charge and they stand there, waving their big bad sword about in thin air.

Engineer Bugs

Warrior Bugs

If you compare the two bug lists, you see that the developers simply did not have enough time to finish the class.
I think two or three weeks prior to the release (3rd Beta weekend?) someone officially mentioned that there were some professions who had been “polished” for the launch and some who still needed some work.
IIrc Necros and Engineers were not ready. So I assume that Engineers are not underpowered, they are simply not finished. Hopefully they will update the game soon with a bigger patch including a compilation of bug fixes…

Tbh if you built an engi for burst and you only got 7k damage…you did something wrong. Grenade Barrage alone, for me, typically does 3-4k with modest power+crit gear with some toughness/vit thrown in (since you toss 6 nades, a few are bound to crit). Combine this with even an untraited rifle with decent power + crit, and you should easily be able to burst over 10k. And that’s just using one toolbelt skill + weapon skills + decent gear.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Tbh if you built an engi for burst and you only got 7k damage…you did something wrong. Grenade Barrage alone, for me, typically does 3-4k with modest power+crit gear with some toughness/vit thrown in (since you toss 6 nades, a few are bound to crit). Combine this with even an untraited rifle with decent power + crit, and you should easily be able to burst over 10k. And that’s just using one toolbelt skill + weapon skills + decent gear.

By Engi burst I mean his burst using Rifle.

If class has one viable weapon/build for anything, this mean that class is broken. You should not consider class balanced, because it has one viable build. It would be like putting hydras/ultralisks and some other units hp to 1 and still say that zerg is balanced because of ling+infestor is available.

I cant wait till the engi in general gets a buff/tune up or the stupid grenade kit gets nerf batted. So sick of every one telling me to use fking grenades. I started the engi to build turrets, well actually no I started the engi because the necro’s minions where trash.

Any way, our long range weapon should be the rifle, grenades should not top in in single target damage OR in range, but saddly they do in both.

I really hope its true that the necro and engi are still on the list to be “polished”.

Bargaw.4832

By Engi burst I mean his burst using Rifle.
If class has one viable weapon/build for anything, this mean that class is broken. You should not consider class balanced, because it has one viable build. It would be like putting hydras/ultralisks and some other units hp to 1 and still say that zerg is balanced because of ling+infestor is available.

Engineer has far more than one viable build though, especially for burst. My gadget build can burst up to 20k with its full combo on a 40 second cooldown, and I don’t use a single weapon kit.

Grenades are good, sure, but people give them a bit too much credit (probably because a lot of people are only focusing on PvE or WvW, not sPvP, where they’re not nearly as viable). There are tons of viable Engineer builds out there, people just need to branch out and find them.

@XelNigma : Engineers should get general buffs / tune ups / polishes because kits except Flamethrower Kit are so hard to use. Even Grenade kit does not have autoattack option (and you know all kits essentially have no autoattack because of the memoryless bug), pressing 11111111 and presing 1 click 1 click 1 click 1 click while moving left strafe or right strafe is very time demanding. And tool belt skills are generally quite negligible or having absurd long CDs.