Guild Wars 2

I want to straighten something out before I actually mention the build I am talking about. I keep seeing this nonsense on Kit Refinement being broken. KR comes off of cool down every 10 seconds. The only change is the KR ability now has a 20 second shared cool down. As a result you have to wait 20 seconds before you can queue up the same KR ability. This doesn’t break KR, it just requires us to rethink our rotation. Perhaps this wasn’t the case with the grenade kit, I wouldn’t know, since I avoid this kit like it was 100b.

I guess this last update buffed an old build of mine even further by increasing the healing on Elixir gun and fixing some bugs I was experiencing.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/A-viable-build-Not-another-rant-post/first#post1378648

Buffs don’t offset the nerf on a already broken class compared to others. I am glad it helped you out but for a large part of this class it has made it much worse and when comparing to other classes we are very much lacking what we should have the most which is being a class that is able to accommodate to whats going on current. We are forced down one route and stuck in it.

We aren’t the jack of all trades we are the lacking of everything and to be found lacking we have to spec heavy into that field.

Thanks for your post

The nerf to Kit refinement was a minor setback, even though I don’t see the reason in changing the trait in this manner. People can still do the 100Nades attack; they just have to be more careful about how they do it. More setup if you will.

The food nerf was something that they’ve probably been intending to fix anyway. Everyone who had half a brain in the engineer group saw this as something that wasn’t intended yet would use it while it was available. No reason to complain about that.

The buffs and fixes in this patch were more a boon to us than a curse. Take it or leave it, we were improved.

The nerf to kit refinement was minor for Grenade or Tool kit builds, because the global cooldown isn’t triggered by those kits (although the release notes say it should be). But if it had been fully implemented . . .

FYI, The internal cooldown for Kit Refinement on the EG is 20s. There are reports that switching to the EG after the 10s global cooldown expires, but before the EG specific cooldown expires retriggers the KR global cooldown. (I’ve yet to test this myself.)

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

I want to straighten something out before I actually mention the build I am talking about. I keep seeing this nonsense on Kit Refinement being broken, I can say this matter of factly, the KR ability on both the Elixir Gun and Tool Kit have always been, and remain at 10 seconds. The only change is the KR ability on both of them now has a shared a cool down. (As well as the Flamer and Nade kits.) This doesn’t break KR, it just requires us to rethink our rotation. Perhaps this wasn’t the case with the grenade kit, I wouldn’t know, since I avoid this kit like it was 100b.

I guess this last update buffed an old build of mine even further by increasing the healing on Elixir gun and fixing some bugs I was experiencing.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/A-viable-build-Not-another-rant-post/first#post1378648

Cooldown on EG was 20 (TWENTY) seconds and still is.
It has NEVER been 10 seconds, ever.

The shared cooldown between Tool Kit and EG procs if used in one order, but not if used in the other order.
Tool Kit > EG no problems
EG > Tool Kit no proc for tool kit

Flamethrower acts like EG, in the sense that the proc takes priority over the following kits.

Your post is odd because you seem to be saying how the change did little to nothing, but at the same time your information seems incorrect.

You say you keep seeing nonsense about the kit refinement changes… well, so do I.
There are other and more correct posts about the changes made. And there is a lot more going on than what you describe as being the ‘only’ change.

Test some things, read some posts more carefully.

This thread for example is covering the changes in a more correct manner:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Kit-refinement-nerf-tested-explained/first#post1570490

Sorry to be so harsh, but if your first line starts with saying how you want to straighten something out, and how much nonsense you read… you better make sure your own post is correct.

Kimbald.2697:

This thread for example is covering the changes in a more correct manner:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Kit-refinement-nerf-tested-explained/first#post1570490

Sorry to be so harsh, but if your first line starts with saying how you want to straighten something out, and how much nonsense you read… you better make sure your own post is correct.

I have been playing around with KR, since 100nades emerged from the depths of SPvP. And like I stated in my post, the KR cool down was 10 seconds on the elixir gun and tool kit. Feel free to flame away, but that is what it was. Perhaps somewhere along this time frame the cool down was reduced on these two kits, mistakenly or otherwise. After playing with these two kits for a bit, it appears they have not changed, they don’t even appear to share a cool down. I think ANET may have overlooked these kits. Sorry my post seems to offend you. These are my observations though. I have seen may posts saying mixed things and having mixed results. I am not by any means saying that ANET has balanced KR. What they did was rather pointless, since all it did was break a lot of builds that were centered on KR. But since I was not using any of those builds, this last patch was more of a buff than a nerf to me.

Kimbald.2697:

For now some kits are efected and some not. Not even the patch notes are accurate in that regard.
So we can’t even figure out how it should work, if the patch notes would be correct.
At best we can figure out workarounds for the current effects.

You said this, yet you do not understand what I am saying. I am saying that the Elixir Gun and Tool Kit remain unaffected by ANET’s patch. You are basing your whole argument here on the Grenade Kit.

So elixir gun remains uneffected by the patch?
I’m sure you didn’t mean to say this.
Do you mean when you use Elixir gun by itself? In which case: obviously…

If you mean in combo with the tool kit: than mostly it’s the same yes, except when you reverse the order in which you use them. As stated in the linked post.

If you mean in combo with other kits? That entirely depends on the kit and/or the order in nwhich you swap them. Also as stated in the linked post.

And how would I be basing my whole argument on grenade kit, when I didn’t say anything about grenade kit?
In case you’re still in doubt: I am NOT basing my argument on grenade kit. Not at all.

Why do I seem offended by your post?
Pretty simple: you start by saying that others write nonsense about the kit refinement change, and than you go on to write things that seem very fishy to me. What you write does not correspod with my own findings, nor with what others posted.

Please go read the linked post, than we can talk.

Elixir gun proc from kit refinement was 10 seconds you say?

1. Ok, so that means you could swap to EG and get the proc, right?

2. That super elixir proc has a 10 second dutration, right?
So swap to EG and get 10 second light field.

3. That means that at the end of that you could re-swap the EG and get another proc?
So swap to EG, get 10 second light field, reswap to EG and get 10 more seconds light field. Without using the normal proc yet.

4.That also means that people did not chain the procced Super Elixir to the real Super Elixir from EG#5 to add them up to a 20 second duration? Which seemed to be the way how we got a permanent light field.
You say: we could swap to EG, get proc for 10 seconds, use normal super elixir and get double light field for those 10 seconds… AND re-swap to EG immediately for another proc?

For the record: I am saying this:
EG kit refinement proc had a Twenty second cooldown, and we coupled that on the normal one for either:
-10 seconds stacking double light field, and than wait till the normal one was up again (20 or16 sec traited cooldown)
-20 continuous single light field, if we used the proc first, wait 10 sec duration and than use the normal one for another 10 seconds duration. At wich point the proc is up again so we re-swap the EG

edited a badly written post to a less badly written post but still not happy about the clarity of it…

Kimbald.2697:

edited a badly written post to a less badly written post but still not happy about the clarity of it…

EG’s proc from KR does not start its timer until the 10s light field disappears.
Effectively making it a 20s CD from the time you initially switched to the EG.

Brinson.7289:

Kimbald.2697:

edited a badly written post to a less badly written post but still not happy about the clarity of it…

EG’s proc from KR does not start its timer until the 10s light field disappears.
Effectively making it a 20s CD from the time you initially switched to the EG.

I call that a 20 second cooldown, since I count all cooldowns from the initial use. Never from the end of the effect.
I also think it is calculated from the start, as any other ability seems to be.
But that’s hair splitting: if someone wants to say it’s a 10 second cooldown once the 10 second effect has ended… be my guest

As a comparison:
the OP mentions a 10 second cooldown on the proc from Tool Kit as well.
The proc is ‘box of nails’ which lasts 4 seconds.
So this would mean, by the same reasoning, that the new proc only happens after 14 seconds (duration first, than cooldown start).
it doesn’t: it starts at 10 seconds after initial effect.

So either we say EG has 10 seconds and Tool Kit 6 seconds… or make it simple and say EG has 20 seconds and tool kit 10 seconds.
You can’t mix up the two…

I would also call it a 20s CD.
But maybe they changed EG so that you can’t have a continuous light field + heal down so they changed how this one skill is effected by the trait.
I’m not speaking about anything except EG. Just because the trait works for one utility; doesn’t mean it has to work exactly the same for each of them.

I’m not trying to say im right and your wrong. I was trying to explain what you were trying to explain in different words. I don’t care what anyone calls it.
In the end KR wont proc with EG until 10s after that light field is gone.

Brinson.7289:

I would also call it a 20s CD.
But maybe they changed EG so that you can’t have a continuous light field + heal down so they changed how this one skill is effected by the trait.
I’m not speaking about anything except EG. Just because the trait works for one utility; doesn’t mean it has to work exactly the same for each of them.

I’m not trying to say im right and your wrong. I was trying to explain what you were trying to explain in different words. I don’t care what anyone calls it.
In the end KR wont proc with EG until 10s after that light field is gone.

the biggest issue at the moment is that it’s not so clear what they intended to do… and what unintended things they changed by doing it.
Also it seems that they planned to include tool kit completely (see patch notes) but somehow it doesn’t proc the internal coodlown if used first. it only loses it own proc if EG or FT are used first. Which is a change by itself of course, but not ‘fully’ as the patch notes suggest.

In other words: they made a mess of things…

Kimbald.2697:

Do you mean when you use Elixir gun by itself? In which case: obviously…
If you mean in combo with the tool kit: than mostly it’s the same yes, except when you reverse the order in which you use them.

^This is what I meant. ^
All you have to do is change your rotation to make up for the patch. If you time switching kits properly, KR still goes off every 10 seconds. But you can only use a certain KR ability, say EG, every 20 seconds. So you cannot spam the EG KR every 10 seconds but if you have another kit, say the FT. Then you can set its KR ability off right after SE ends. (10 seconds) Maybe I am failing to understand what yourself and others have been saying, but this what I have discovered.

Kimbald.2697:

And how would I be basing my whole argument on grenade kit, when I didn’t say anything about grenade kit?
In case you’re still in doubt: I am NOT basing my argument on grenade kit. Not at all.

My apologies, it wasn’t you mentioning the Grenade kit, in the link you posted, but someone else, on that note. I have read the link you posted, before I created this one.

Kimbald.2697:

Why do I seem offended by your post?

Didn’t read the rest of that paragraph, troll elsewhere.

I realize where the disconnect between what you and I have been saying was, in my original post. We have been essentially been saying the same thing, but I have not been understanding you, and vice versa. I edited my original post to clear that up.

Maybe they only wanted to put a CD on the medkit explosion and then got confused somewhere down the line.
This was the only way they could explain the mess they made. lol