Guild Wars 2

Seriously. Let me walk you through this:

1) Kit refinement nerf.

If you jump while switching kits, you do not use the spell and, thus, do not waste it. This means you can still do the tool kit version of the spike. I, personally, recommend the rifle version of the spike and follow up with tool kit instead, but different situations require different spikes.

2) Stow Med kit “fix”.

When you switch to med kit, practice unequipping it immediately with the “~” key.

3) Flamethrower buff.

It’s better, but still not best. If you use it, you’re accepting weaker damage for an easier time using skills. Nothing wrong with that, but know that’s the terms and conditions of the flamethrower.

4) Super Elixir buff

No. It’s not twice as powerful. The way they wrote it is very misleading. It just scales a little better with healing power. If you are using this with grenade kit, just think about what you really need (With kit refinement spells). Generally, if you have elixir gun equipped, you should be using the Elixir Gun’s kit refinement. If you aren’t, why even keep Elixir Gun around?

Just over 1,200 games on my engi so i know a lot about them.
Is the engineer dead? No
Is it still the weakest class? Yes
A lot of keyboard work/effort for the smallest gains of all the classes.

Caino.7130:

Just over 1,200 games on my engi so i know a lot about them.
Is the engineer dead? No
Is it still the weakest class? Yes
A lot of keyboard work/effort for the smallest gains of all the classes.

This.

I love my engineer, but it is in spite of the class not because of it.

Well, I agree with the OP that the last patch didn’t bring the engineer down more, which is mostly his point I think.

I personally hate the Kit refinement change, it’s a very messy solution that does more bad than good in order to adress certain issues the trait could cause (100nades, superpower condition removal…).

But all in all the changes were pretty good.

Even the ‘stow med kit part’: the runes ‘on healing proc on stowing the med kit just like they do on equipping the med kit… so you don’t even need to stow immediately if you don’t want.
My only issue with it is that I still waste my shield block because I’m so used to the med kit not stowing and pressing #5 for the stimulant

Engineer’s not dead, no. Of course not.
But I doubt we got all that better compared others either…

I dnt play sPvP much, but as a roamer in WvW, I like my engi over thief, warr and guardian

Of course the engineer isn’t dead, they can be viable in their own right. But in the current spvp meta where you need either speed or stealth to keep up with other classes, engineers ran out of luck and got none. Which is probably why there just arent enough engies around.

Someone told me the number of each class created is roughly equal – which means people start about as a many engineers as they do any other class.

Question is, how may get to L80? And when they do, how many get played after that?

Zenguy.6421:

Someone told me the number of each class created is roughly equal – which means people start about as a many engineers as they do any other class.

Question is, how may get to L80? And when they do, how many get played after that?

The problem I’ve encountered with my engineer is that they attract MASSIVE aggro. In events, risen have parties over her, ignoring every other class. Even if there are 10 guardians, 20 warriors and 50 thieves, when my engineer fires a shot, all vets and champs, all of a sudden, fall in love, storm across the map and wipe her off! Ok, I’m exaggerating a bit, but it serves the purpose of giving an idea of how much aggro they tend to attract.

On the positive side, the engineer has some really fun tools, most of which though have no tangible use. I haven’t seen anybody throwing wrenches or sitting behind turrets to fix them (turrets tend to die quite fast and the repair rate is not worth the effort). Flamethrowers can have some viability, but not until one reaches the point to apply the toughness trait with them. Basically the engineer needs to keep mobs at distance and the rifle is a good option. BUT, it only hits one mob. With some good strategy and moving, turrets can be helpful for the extra adds. Still though, in events, things can be grim.

The only toolkit I found worthwhile in them is the bomb kit (ground targeting grenades are a big no-no when everything is hunting you down). When it comes to the exploding risen though, forget it! And one can’t just switch back to rifle with over a dozen of them coming exclusively after you, picking especially to attack from the rear! I don’t know what obsession the thralls have with the… rear end!

I don’t know if it’s me, but the endurance regeneration on my engineer slacks compared to the others. And I do have 6 classes to lvl 80. My eng is @ lvl 57 at the moment and unfortunately, if I need an extra character slot, she’s the first candidate to go. Thus far, she’s the slowest leveler compared to other classes.

It’s a pity actually…

The Gates Assassin.9827:

4) Super Elixir buff

No. It’s not twice as powerful. The way they wrote it is very misleading. It just scales a little better with healing power. If you are using this with grenade kit, just think about what you really need (With kit refinement spells). Generally, if you have elixir gun equipped, you should be using the Elixir Gun’s kit refinement. If you aren’t, why even keep Elixir Gun around?

Well there’s more to the EG than that. Fumigate removes conditions and Elixir F is a great cripple skill.

Also you can now buff your groups with Retaliation doing Super Elixir → Acid Bomb, now that Acid Bomb is a Blast Finisher.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Generally, if you have elixir gun equipped, you should be using the Elixir Gun’s kit refinement. If you aren’t, why even keep Elixir Gun around?_

For the sake of lazyness, let me just copy paste a post Casia made about the EG in this EG build discussion thread.
Add to everything he says that EG 4 is now a blast finisher.

Casia.4281:

The elixir gun is pretty interesting.

It scales in alot of different directions. This can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on your playstyle and how you want to look at it.

A main potential flaw is there is very little options for your build. 30 firearms, 30 alch, 10 tools pretty much. its hard to justify anything else.
20 in firearms will give 20% reduced CD. and rifled barrels which is range, and other stuff which I will mention in a moment.
Going 30 fully is hard to not due as 5% damage vs bleeding, and that extra crit/cond works with EG so well.
Alch same deal 15% damage potentially. however, if you are not going for a DD build, you might be able to skip out on going deep here.
10 in tools for kit refinement is a given.

EG 1 scales at .4 direct, and has a 4second bleed. .85 attack speed. 1s weakness.
At a 4s bleed, this is a highly consistent application of bleeds. 4 stacks. without sharpshooter, or any +duration. and it does scale well with +duration.
Pistol 1 is .35 p direct, and 2s bleed. Note then, EG1 is way more cond damage, and direct is pretty close. (weapon damage)

EG2 is .75 and 4 bounces. 8second CD. this is quite a bit of damage. all direct.
EG3 is TERRIBLE. .08 scaling. 5 hits over 2.5s. Insanely low. 1s poisonx5 hits, 5s duration, and 5 6s vuls, and cures allies cond, but not yours. Really, dont use this. there is a better option to do each of those things alone, elsewhere.
EG4 is .8 per tick for 5s. 6ticks total, first is instant.

So, what? EG2 and EG4 scale very well with direct damage. very. EG1 is ok direct, and great cond. Most of your damage will be direct with the EG. however, since the main attack is a cond based one, Cond is viable really.
Toolbelt and EG 5 obviously scale with +healing.

Rifled barrels. Changes everything.
It says it adds range. and it does… but thats not all.
EG1 is 1s weakness and 4s bleed normally.
With rifled barrels it becomes 3s weakness, and 3s bleed. 1200 range.
So it adds 300 range, adds 2 s weakness, and reduces the bleed to 3s. So it will do LESS damage with rifled barrels. The extra range however, may make up for it. (plus what it does for EG2)
EG2 3s cripple, 3s swiftness. 8s cd.
With rifled barrels the tooltip will SAY 5s cripple, 5s swiftness. however, this does not occur. it is still 3s. The big change aside from 1200 range, is the CD however, does become 5s. Which is a very large buff to direct damage. EG with rifled barrels is a significant ranged burst weapon.
There are tooltip bugs with the rest of the skills and rifled barrels as well, but no more function changes.

direct damage good and bad. +15% trait is obviously the largest trait. Rifles get 10, grenades get 10, many others get nothing. So that 15% is a significant buff to EG damage, as well has high up time on the bleed for the firearms trait. however, EG is still chained to the kit weapon damage. 920 average. while a rifle is that 1095 average.
So an EG 2 that hits at .75 twice, gaining that +15%, 5% vs bleeding, etc, sounds like it should hit super hard. hits.. good, but not omg hard. A rifle auto attack is competitive due to the base higher weapon damage. Its just naturally 17% stronger.

Acid bath problem. Acid bath hits like a ton of bricks. its a lavafont. (2kx6 is not uncommon for it)The main problem is the leap back is not tied with a CC Break or evade like other similar moves. Play with it, and you will find yourself using it, and not going anywhere more often then you would like. Its extremely unreliable.

I love the engineer class, its something I will always play and is a lot of fun. But for Anet Devs observing forums we do need better permanent run speeds to match other classes, even with added distance to rifles other classes are running out from reach ( even with a swiftness elixir)
13 seconds of swiftness against permanant run speed does not even compare. I agree we need a steath capability too. Classes are not created equally, so intead of nerfing engies who are already a weak class one to one and giving thieves and mesmers ludicrous skills, give us some decent base health, a run speed or stealth so we can make a getaway if needs be and the rest we can sort ourselves.
Our grenades also cannot go over fort walls, which if Anet devised this class to be a kite mode of play – well they really have not worked that out either. Sort this out seriously !!

mzt.3270:

I love the engineer class, its something I will always play and is a lot of fun. But for Anet Devs observing forums we do need better permanent run speeds to match other classes, even with added distance to rifles other classes are running out from reach ( even with a swiftness elixir)
13 seconds of swiftness against permanant run speed does not even compare. I agree we need a steath capability too. Classes are not created equally, so intead of nerfing engies who are already a weak class one to one and giving thieves and mesmers ludicrous skills, give us some decent base health, a run speed or stealth so we can make a getaway if needs be and the rest we can sort ourselves.
Our grenades also cannot go over fort walls, which if Anet devised this class to be a kite mode of play – well they really have not worked that out either. Sort this out seriously !!

What we need most is a gap closer, since we don’t have one (Doing jump shot on rifle will actually slow you down if you already got swiftness on).

Considering that our class is supposed to be slow, there already is imbalancement in that regard. Average armor, average health, average damage, low speed.

I agree Penguin. Closing gaps is what we really need but I maintain we need a faster running speed on par with the rest. We don’t do as much damage as Anet would make us out to have.Medum armor, medum health, average damage, low speed – is pretty much how it boils down . Unless Anet would like to enlighten us in how to actually get the best out this build, so far I have seen nothing yet. I think even they would be pushed to find one if they were honest.

mzt.3270:

I agree Penguin. Closing gaps is what we really need but I maintain we need a faster running speed on par with the rest. We don’t do as much damage as Anet would make us out to have.Medum armor, medum health, average damage, low speed – is pretty much how it boils down . Unless Anet would like to enlighten us in how to actually get the best out this build, so far I have seen nothing yet. I think even they would be pushed to find one if they were honest.

Speedy kits give you infinite 33% movement speed.

Gear Shield + Elixir S + dodging + the Vigor trait gives you a crap ton of invulnerability/evade/block.

We have a lot of options for toughness.

100nades can hit for 20k instantly and grenades themselves can hit for about 3k each easily.

Honestly, I don’t think there’s anything we need besides more variety. 100nades is a fantastic build and super fun, but I want to use a flamethrower. I can’t if it’s crap.

This is the point isnt it?

nr1 and nr2 now, suddenly, require more contrived actions by the player to work around their flaws and shortcommings.
As if this profession didnt have enough of those already.

Same thing with the flamethrower. Why cant it just detonate on impact? Why must i be the one that presses the button? Why must Airblast add 2sec burn but only if they are already burning, but Napalm is still a 1sec burn?

Why all these convaluted idea’s? Why cant they make things actually intuitive and easier to use, instead of just adding more bogus mechanics to artificially raise a skill requirement (which is high enough as it is) that doesnt even reward the player for pulling it off?

grenades themselves can hit for about 3k each easily.

Wtf…i think you mean 300 not 3k

100nades “CAN” hit for 20k instantly – With might stacks on a pure glass cannon
+Requires a setup (*takes proberley about 3-4seconds to complete) which any half decent player can see a mile away

Caino.7130:

Just over 1,200 games on my engi so i know a lot about them.
Is the engineer dead? No
Is it still the weakest class? Yes
A lot of keyboard work/effort for the smallest gains of all the classes.

Absolutely. Nobody claimed the class is “dead”, it’s just not very good and frankly never was. The fact that ANet likes to give with one hand and take with the other (FT Buff/Food nerf) doesn’t help.

Phineas Poe.3018:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

4) Super Elixir buff

No. It’s not twice as powerful. The way they wrote it is very misleading. It just scales a little better with healing power. If you are using this with grenade kit, just think about what you really need (With kit refinement spells). Generally, if you have elixir gun equipped, you should be using the Elixir Gun’s kit refinement. If you aren’t, why even keep Elixir Gun around?

Well there’s more to the EG than that. Fumigate removes conditions and Elixir F is a great cripple skill.

Also you can now buff your groups with Retaliation doing Super Elixir -> Acid Bomb, now that Acid Bomb is a Blast Finisher.

If you use rifle with EG (a strange setup, yes) you can give two applications of retaliation with Jump Shot and Acid Pool.

Terrahero.9358:

Same thing with the flamethrower. Why cant it just detonate on impact? Why must i be the one that presses the button? Why must Airblast add 2sec burn but only if they are already burning, but Napalm is still a 1sec burn?

I like the way they’ve fixed Flame Blast. Being able to control when you want the blast to happen is a lot better. It allows you to strategically place the explosion to catch the most targets.

The 2 second burn with Air Blast is a bonus, an upgrade from what it originally did; accept it.

Napalm? I agree with you there. At least give some damage with the 1 second burn, or make it a 2 second burn each time they pass through it.

Sporadicus.1028:

If you use rifle with EG (a strange setup, yes), but you can give two applications of retaliation with Jump Shot and Acid Pool.

Or with a shield, which would make even more sense since you’re only using retaliation when you’re under attack of course.
So a shield gives some reflect before the retaliation from releasing it.
And if they’re melee, they suddenly aren’t in melee range anymore as you release…
Unless they have stability, but than you have retal at that point

Bottom line is: any blast finisher will do, Big Old Bomb, blown up turret, the rifle you mention.
The main issue for engineers is: we don’t have blast finishers we can spam without losing out on it’s main ability.
Every blast finisher is a side effect of a more important cooldown like reflect-kb, aoe kb, jump back, healing…

I’ve been trying out EG with Rifle, and I like how I can bounce in and out of range with the two.

But you’re right that Pistol/Shield can do the same and works better for a condition build. Retal is a great addition to any build. Remember that if you have Retal up, zap’em with pistol’s Static Shot to add confusion and rack up more damage when they attack you.

Sporadicus.1028:

I’ve been trying out EG with Rifle, and I like how I can bounce in and out of range with the two.

never done that, sounds like fun

I’m hooked on pistols though, and very often even hooked on my shield…
It’s just that as soon as I build for some cond damage, I can’t really neglect pistol #4 for damage. No matter how I love my shield.

Bomb kit 5+EG 4+Rifle 5 does quite some damage in a power build.

Resouled.5614:

Bomb kit 5+EG 4+Rifle 5 does quite some damage in a power build.

sounds as one hell of a combo indeed.
Not ‘100nades’ kinda burst, but more like ‘normal playstyle burst’.

It works great! Power wise Acid bomb does a ton of damage! Actually before Rifle 5 use Netshot first to ensure the full duration of Acid Bomb and after hitting Rifle 5 you can easily continue with rifle 4 and if you have throw mine and aim it right you can knock him back to you and hit Rifle 3 up-close.

…
I gotta try this combo lol, sounds amazing on paper haha.

Edit: throw down Bo’B before Rifle 3 and drop smoke bomb you end up stealthing yourself too at the end!

The Gates Assassin.9827:

_If you jump while switching kits, you do not use the spell and, thus, do not waste it.

Is everyone certain this is the case? Because when I tested it with the FT it seemed the effect did not happen when jumping, but the global cooldown was actually still triggered.

As far as being dead goes; I haven’t thought so for a second. Our problem is the same problem you always see with class balance: There are other classes that can do similar things with seemingly more ease.
They did show they’re paying attention to kits and although it wasn’t perfect they did some very nice work last patch (the EG and FT reworks show they’re working with a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer imo, which is promising).

Snafoo.2869:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

_If you jump while switching kits, you do not use the spell and, thus, do not waste it.

Is everyone certain this is the case? Because when I tested it with the FT it seemed the effect did not happen when jumping, but the global cooldown was actually still triggered.

As far as being dead goes; I haven’t thought so for a second. Our problem is the same problem you always see with class balance: There are other classes that can do similar things with seemingly more ease.
They did show they’re paying attention to kits and although it wasn’t perfect they did some very nice work last patch (the EG and FT reworks show they’re working with a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer imo, which is promising).

This is exactly the point made regarding speedy kits. It’s taking away practicality and constant finger bashing on keyboards for repeat turns. Speedy kits is not the answer and its takes away points from creating other important traits needed on the field. Speedy kits is also in all fairness a very bad attempt at a gap closer. The issue is some classes have a normal run speed that far outclasses this.

We are versatile yes but at with a very clumsy operating system. Why should we spend those points on a kit thats nothing close as a gap finisher when other classes have speeds better than this in passive. Let’s not mention with grenades, EG, FT etc, thats a lot of work for a class with average armor, health, toughness and speed. What we need is to be boosted to heavy armor class with a good health pool or give us the speed. We also need something that is activly passive like sigils to meet with other classes.

Penguin.5197:

What we need most is a gap closer, since we don’t have one (Doing jump shot on rifle will actually slow you down if you already got swiftness on).

Penguin, meet Magnet.

Number one reason I always carry the Tool Kit with me in WvW, beyond the three-second immunity and AoE cripple.

Sporadicus.1028:

I like the way they’ve fixed Flame Blast. Being able to control when you want the blast to happen is a lot better. It allows you to strategically place the explosion to catch the most targets.

The 2 second burn with Air Blast is a bonus, an upgrade from what it originally did; accept it.

Napalm? I agree with you there. At least give some damage with the 1 second burn, or make it a 2 second burn each time they pass through it.

“it allows me to strategically catch targets”
It can be designed in much better ways to do this. But instead of making it a proper ability, and dealing with the dissapating ball of volatile magma, they make us press the button. Why cant they just fix it?

Then they buff FT, but they do it by making Airblast give a 2sec burn on it. Highly situational. And its overloading 1 single ability with effects. Its now an AoE conal knockback. It reflects projectiles back. AND it now also applies burn, provided the target already burns…. Meanwhile, other abilities are quite dull and in desperate need of buffing.

Why add this to Airblast? Why not make Napalm inflict 3sec burn instead of 1? THAT would be a buff. No added complexity, no triple-purpose, no buffing an ability that is already quite decent in itself. But actually flat out buffing an ability that really desperately needs it.
That is whats ticking me off, the FT needed (and still needs) buffs. But instead of just doing it in a proper way, in a constructive means, they go dicking around the bush with such silly mechanics.

“its a buff, but only if you learn how to use it! hoho!” Just buff stuff, this profession as a whole is gimped enough as it is with way to many contrived, artifical, skillcliffs as it is. And then they go around adding even more. Meanwhile, a Thief presses 2 buttons and collects his loot.

Terrahero.9358:

It can be designed in much better ways to do this. But instead of making it a proper ability, and dealing with the dissapating ball of volatile magma, they make us press the button. Why cant they just fix it?

Well I like being able to detonate it whenever I want to. Especially when farming events like Plinx, it’s better to make sure you’re hitting the most targets as possible—not just the first one.

Terrahero.9358:

But instead of just doing it in a proper way, in a constructive means, they go dicking around the bush with such silly mechanics.

Because believe it or not, the Engineer is a very complicated class. Giving us one very powerful mechanic can really make this class the best one in the game considering whatever else an Engineer has at his disposal at any given time (see: the recent Elementalist nerf, the Grenade Kit nerf).

This is one of the cases where it’s probably best they use a scalpel and not a sledgehammer (as someone else alluded to above).

Terrahero.9358:

“its a buff, but only if you learn how to use it! hoho!” Just buff stuff, this profession as a whole is gimped enough as it is with way to many contrived, artifical, skillcliffs as it is. And then they go around adding even more. Meanwhile, a Thief presses 2 buttons and collects his loot.

I’m not really sure where you’re coming from here. Just to explain: I use the FT/EG build. I am equipped with dual pistols. I don’t use them. I use them so I have access to two sigils which boost the damage output of my Flamethrower. Of my Flamethrower. Not my pistols. Not my Elixir Gun. And definitely not my third utility slot, which is usually Elixir C/R/B or Utility Goggles. Depends on whatever I’m doing.

So the only time I’m dishing out damage is when I am using my Flamethrower. Look at the 1-5 skills. Which ones do damage? Flame Jet and Flame Blast. I use Napalm for group buffs and place them on allies, not on enemies. When I am doing DPS, and not providing support with the Elixir Gun, I am using those two skills.

For the Grenade Kit, it is no different. The mass of your damage is going to come from the #1 and #2 skills.

So where is this elaborate system of hoops of fire I have to jump through to deal DPS with the Engineer? I’m all ears, man.