Guild Wars 2

I think the Engie Explosives line is extremely lackluster. All the other lines outpace and it possesses no defining characteristics. Nothing truly goes boom in the explosives line.

No single trait in the Grandmaster line for explosives does what Static Discharge does for the Tools line and SD is an Adept trait. There’s something seriously wrong if that’s the case.

Take a look at the video and tell me what you think about the explosives line.

Î disagree.

While explosives still bring awesome synergy to condi and hybrid-builds, they’re meant to be taken for powerbuilds anyways.

the minors speak for themselves. dodge-bomb, vuln and more dmg / cc
when it comes to adept-tier, yes it’s lackluster for power-pvp builds that decide against nades, but you have to keep in mind the synergy with inventions when it comes to blast-heals (and you get a ton of them from explosions), so glass-cannon is a valid pick for PvP.

moving on to master-tier, we have the incredible useful short fuse. at least you did recognize it as the valuable trait it is. What you’ve failed to realize is the seeker-missle for what it brings: a free attack without cast-animation, judging from its parent-skill with decent dps as well. yes, it’s quite rng, but since it procs on hit it will be useful for all kinds of builds, especially when you spam #1 in downstate and suddenly the guy that tries to stomp you gets hit like a truck. since the oil-puddle on always prepared was so small, this trait has much more potential to prevent a stomp (via bringing your opponent into downstane) than always prepared could have ever achieved.

shaped charge: 5% more dmg (on top of the 10% of the minor) for free, since we spam so much explosives that your targets most of the time will have vulnerability. so by picking this trait, you theoretically have 15 stacks of vulnerability permanently on a target, and still can go up 25 more. 15% to 40% more dmg from picking this line with shaped charge. up to 45% if you also pick glass-cannon. this is huge.
Keep in mind that vulnerability will also increase condi-dmg now, while pistol AA is counted as “explosion”…

and then we have the grandmasters.
I mean, that’s the point where you make yourself ridiculous. EPK becoming a blast-finisher? while we also have a trait in inventions that allows us to directly heal with blasts? While we have a tools-grandmaster that gives us perma-vigor (since vigor got nerfed)? Wat?
Add on top of this sigil of energy or elixir R (that coincidentally clears immob) and we look on one hell of a build-defining trait.

Then the mortar grandmaster.
2 blasts in a row, every 40 seconds, increased duration on aoe – chill, -poison and -blind fields, all valuable soft-cc’s. this alone is huge for power-builds, but add on top of that kinetic charge. 4 blasts + 4x BoB-like dmg in a row. or 2 blasts + 2x BoB every 20 seconds, while being able to drop a (enhanced duration) waterfield with the same kit…
take juggernaut in firearms, give yourself stab with flamethrower and then OS + netshot to set people up for this burst. Or cleave downed people with this dmg. Or simply hammer the kitten out of svanir or chieftain / contested points, or out of rezzing / stomping people…

You seem to not have understood what synergy and “build-defining” means if you can’t recognize this huge frekkin moose in the hallway…

Damage modifiers alone make it a must have for PVE, toss in the sweet blast options in the GM tree, well, quite frankly I don’t know what you’re talking about in thinking it lacks anything.

Are you kidding me? I think it’s very good post patch.
It even benefit those naders who run zerk and no longer requires burning.
The one that everyone’s looking forward to is the one that leave a blast finisher after dodge. Also it has the easiest to achieve damage modifier in the game. Personally I’m looking forward to all the nade related traits.

Arantheal.7396:

Î disagree.

While explosives still bring awesome synergy to condi and hybrid-builds, they’re meant to be taken for powerbuilds anyways.

the minors speak for themselves. dodge-bomb, vuln and more dmg / cc
when it comes to adept-tier, yes it’s lackluster for power-pvp builds that decide against nades, but you have to keep in mind the synergy with inventions when it comes to blast-heals (and you get a ton of them from explosions), so glass-cannon is a valid pick for PvP.

moving on to master-tier, we have the incredible useful short fuse. at least you did recognize it as the valuable trait it is. What you’ve failed to realize is the seeker-missle for what it brings: a free attack without cast-animation, judging from its parent-skill with decent dps as well. yes, it’s quite rng, but since it procs on hit it will be useful for all kinds of builds, especially when you spam #1 in downstate and suddenly the guy that tries to stomp you gets hit like a truck. since the oil-puddle on always prepared was so small, this trait has much more potential to prevent a stomp (via bringing your opponent into downstane) than always prepared could have ever achieved.

shaped charge: 5% more dmg (on top of the 10% of the minor) for free, since we spam so much explosives that your targets most of the time will have vulnerability. so by picking this trait, you theoretically have 15 stacks of vulnerability permanently on a target, and still can go up 25 more. 15% to 40% more dmg from picking this line with shaped charge. up to 45% if you also pick glass-cannon. this is huge.
Keep in mind that vulnerability will also increase condi-dmg now, while pistol AA is counted as “explosion”…

and then we have the grandmasters.
I mean, that’s the point where you make yourself ridiculous. EPK becoming a blast-finisher? while we also have a trait in inventions that allows us to directly heal with blasts? While we have a tools-grandmaster that gives us perma-vigor (since vigor got nerfed)? Wat?
Add on top of this sigil of energy or elixir R (that coincidentally clears immob) and we look on one hell of a build-defining trait.

Then the mortar grandmaster.
2 blasts in a row, every 40 seconds, increased duration on aoe – chill, -poison and -blind fields, all valuable soft-cc’s. this alone is huge for power-builds, but add on top of that kinetic charge. 4 blasts + 4x BoB-like dmg in a row. or 2 blasts + 2x BoB every 20 seconds, while being able to drop a (enhanced duration) waterfield with the same kit…
take juggernaut in firearms, give yourself stab with flamethrower and then OS + netshot to set people up for this burst. Or cleave downed people with this dmg. Or simply hammer the kitten out of svanir or chieftain / contested points, or out of rezzing / stomping people…

You seem to not have understood what synergy and “build-defining” means if you can’t recognize this huge frekkin moose in the hallway…

You’ve willfully ignored some of the other things I have a problem with and have given no reason for them to exist.

I had no problem with Shaped Charge, Grenadier, or Thermobaric Detonation, I understand their use but think about this, do you truly need the extra blasts? You don’t.
Do you really need Shrapnel? You don’t. Shrapnel doesn’t add anything to the build, you can get 3 blast finishers in one turret and even Eles who can heal themselves like crazy, cannot stay above 90% health in PvP. In PvE yea, sure you can but a trait that feeds into all systems would be better wouldn’kitten It’s not just PvEers that play this game you know.

Siege Rounds is a master tier trait at best, Shrapnel, same thing. Thermobaric Detonation? I have no problem with the function of this trait, just it’s position in the list. Something else should really fill those slots and those things should make me go “Hmm, I’ll have to figure out a different way to position my character to maximize this trait.”

Aim-assisted Rocket is such a “I’ll take that because I don’t want to take anything else” trait that it also feels like I could easily do without it.

Toxsa.2701:

Are you kidding me? I think it’s very good post patch.
It even benefit those naders who run zerk and no longer requires burning.
The one that everyone’s looking forward to is the one that leave a blast finisher after dodge. Also it has the easiest to achieve damage modifier in the game. Personally I’m looking forward to all the nade related traits.

Yeap but if you’re not running nades though? What is there for you? There’s only 1 trait for bomb users really and they could easily do without it because in some cases it might mess up their timing.

Jerus.4350:

Damage modifiers alone make it a must have for PVE, toss in the sweet blast options in the GM tree, well, quite frankly I don’t know what you’re talking about in thinking it lacks anything.

We already have a ton of Blast finishers. Like I said, the changes have only made the builds we have stronger, they haven’t given us anything new to toy around with and you could literally remove explosives from your blast healing build or Might stacking build and still be hitting good healing numbers and 25 stacks of might.

insanemaniac.2456:

i disagree

they already posted some opinions on why explosives is good, so heres why static discharge is bad too: static discharge is a buggy piece of crap that kittens up your ability to queue skills

I think it still manages to be more interesting than 75% of the Explosives line.

I guess this is an “unpopular opinions” thread.
It’s fine that you don’t like the changes. It’s your taste and I couldn’t care less, but don’t try to find hilarious reasons to sell us that this line is bad, while the cogs of theory-crafters are already turning and come up with devastating and well-synergizing trait-combos that the mayority of is based in the explosives line.

From what I understand you live under the impression that being shunned into taking ICP and grenadier every time you touch explosions is somehow build-defining. It is not, is was not and luckely it won’t be every again. this is just Restrictive, and by making grenadier baseline & moving ICP to firearms, the line got opened for so many sweet traits to pick that the build-diversion you can pick out of explosives suddenly is real.

And about the stuff I’ve given you no reason to exist so far: Am I forced to respond to every single aspect of your post? Do you pay me for this critique? Fine, put 5g into a letter and send it to me^^
Shrapnel: Awesome pick for condi-nade builds, since it means aoe-cripple with almost 100% uptime, and bleed-stacking like crazy with all the procs we get. Not to forget that the pistol AA becomes a “explosion”, so this trait -again- has more synergy than you managed to perceive.
Takedown round: “Why not” for PvE builds. and in case you already run mecha-legs, while still going into tools you have a valid pick for even more aoe-procs to harass people, especially for WvW.
I expect my gold in 6h.

Was there anything else I forgot?
For 5g more you can have the next lesson on the upcomming changes + a free recommendation to recognize that your opinion is in no way close to any reasonable arguments, but just resembles the ranting of someone who – for some reason – expected a new class and is now disappointed that the explosives line kept its shape, while offering so much more now.

Arantheal.7396:

I guess this is an “unpopular opinions” thread.
It’s fine that you don’t like the changes. It’s your taste and I couldn’t care less, but don’t try to find hilarious reasons to sell us that this line is bad, while the cogs of theory-crafters are already turning and come up with devastating and well-synergizing trait-combos that the mayority of is based in the explosives line.

Haha sure. Put together a build that uses the explosives line but doesn’t use grenades and try to replace the explosives line with any other line. What you will see is that, all the other lines are actually more useful than the explosives line.

The only weapon that can take advantage of the Explosives line is grenades. Bombs to a lesser extent and for everything else…. its not even worth it.

If that isn’t a problem to you then, cool. But It is a problem to me.

take bombs and mortar.
- access to all fields the engi is capable of (water, poison, light, frost, fire, smoke)
- access to all conditions the engi is capable of (bleed[if you pick shrapnel], cripple, immob, burning, confusion, poison, blind, vulnerability & chill)
- 2 of the hardest hitting AA’s, one of which is on 1.5k range and a 100% projectile finisher
[- 2/3/5 blast-finisher + the same amount of BoB-like dmg on demand, depending on the traits chosen].
OR
[-2/3 blast-finishers + the same amount of BoB-like dmg on demand + blasts on dodges, depending on your traits chosen]

and this is without even having to decide on your gear, weapon, heal, sigils, runes and 2 utility-slots.
I don’t see nades here, and already have the wet dream of every hybrid build, while STILL being able to trait for and take nades if I so desire.

Yes, this seems to be your personal problem. Good to see that you finally recognize that.

Arantheal.7396:

take bombs and mortar.
- access to all fields the engi is capable of (water, poison, light, frost, fire, smoke)
- access to all conditions the engi is capable of (bleed, cripple, immob, burning, confusion, poison, blind, vulnerability & chill)
- 2 of the hardest hitting AA’s, one of which is on 1.5k range and a 100% projectile finisher
[- 2/3/5 blast-finisher on demand, depending on the traits chosen].
OR
[-2/3 blast-finishers on demand + blasts on dodges, depending on your traits chosen]

and this is without even having to decide on your gear, weapon, heal, sigils, runes and 2 utility-slots.
I don’t see nades here, and already have the wet dream of every hybrid build, while STILL being able to trait for and take nades if I so desire.

Replace explosives with Tools. Kinetic Charge allows you to use Mortar twice anyway and Lock on allows you to ruin Thieves and Mesmers day without much effort because you’ve got tons of AoEs and if you’ve got toolkit, Power Wrench is your girl.

OR

Replace it with Firearms and gain Incendiary powder but you don’t need that because you have tons of burning anyway, you could always go for Modified Ammunition instead Or you could use Flamethrower and take Juggernaut for that on demand stab. Take skilled Marksman because you’re obviously running rifle right?
And heavy armour exploit because it increases both your condi and direct damage when you crit.

If you just said turrets it would’ve been harder but yea.

Arantheal.7396:

Yes, this seems to be your personal problem. Good to see that you finally recognize that.

The topic title may be sensational but the OP does start with “I think…”.

Why replace explosives with tools?
Why not take both?
the 2-5 blasts you get already take kinetic charge into consideration, else you wouldn’t get 2-5 blasts from just picking mortar and Bombkit. I thought that was clear.

The PvP-builds I’ll run with mortar/bombkit most likely will pick explosives, inventions & tools OR explosives, firearms & tools, depending on how I trait for increased movement speed, if i want “lock on” for the match, if I want to be more offensive, or defensive, a.s.o.
But tools & explosives, as well as inventions & explosives pack so much synergy that explosives will be an eternal pillar in most of my builds, simply because the versatility is too huge to give up on.
Still I could replace it, deal with the reduced amount of blasts, dmg-modifiers and aim-assists, while still being able to run viable builds with bomb and mortar.

And that is not a weakness of explosives, that’s the strength of all other trait-lines and the utilities themselves. Not being forced to run a particular line is a good thing, especially if all trait-line come with viable options and decisions, and all utilities are working already as stand-alone, without any trait-support (requirements) so you don’t have to ask yourself “Will not picking this kitten me up?”, but asking yourself “Will this kitten up opponents even faster?”

Current grenadier was a requirement. Not picking this made grenades a joke.
Now it’s baseline, and the new grenadier-trait just asks you “do I need help with landing my nades or not?”, hence it’s a adept-tier trait, along with other, rather weak adept tier traits since it makes less difference for vet-players, but helps out new ones.

Arantheal.7396:

And that is not a weakness of explosives, that’s the strength of all other trait-lines and the utilities themselves. Not being forced to run a particular line is a good thing, especially if all trait-line come with viable options and decisions, and all utilities are working already as stand-alone, without any trait-support (requirements) so you don’t have to ask yourself “Will not picking this kitten me up?”, but asking yourself “Will this kitten up opponents even faster?”

This is not about whether we’re being forced into one line or the other because it has all the cool stuff. Explosives is just very replaceable by anything because the traits it has are weak in comparison to all the other lines.

It doesn’t have to be broken. It just has to have more utility than it does now for players who decide to play something other than grenades or turrets.

Explosives is great for grenades and bombs, as you say. It’s maybe not as good for other builds, but considering the lines are now called SPECIALISATIONS, wanting each one to benefit each build equally is actually a bit silly.

Of course the explosives specialisation won’t help you as much as other options if you don’t use explosives. That’s pretty obvious.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Explosives is great for grenades and bombs, as you say. It’s maybe not as good for other builds, but considering the lines are now called SPECIALISATIONS, wanting each one to benefit each build equally is actually a bit silly.

Of course the explosives specialisation won’t help you as much as other options if you don’t use explosives. That’s pretty obvious.

Good point. But my thought is still that even if you ran grenades, you could still run any other line because they could offer you way more. I mean yea you’ve got Shrapnel but, Firearms has Incendiary Powder, Explosives has vuln on explosions but Firearms has vuln on crit.

I just feel the usefulness of the other lines far out-shine the Explosives line.

To be honest i feel the blast finisher on dodge trait should be an adept or w/e and swap glass cannon to grandmaster with a rework of 5% more damage to targets below 90% 10% damage at 50% and 15% more damage 25% and lower. Would be worth of a grandmaster.

i’d like to see how much aim assisted rockets hit for before i make a call on that skill. could be nuts on a zerker build. can’t deny the grandmasters are lackluster if you’re not running condi, but even then a 33% proc on shrapnel would be much better.

I think the Grandmaster traits for Explosives are worthy of being GM traits, and here are my thoughts on why

Siege Round: Along with making it a kit, this trait is what lifts mortar from being the worst Engineer Elite skill to the best. Even if you’re running a Power build, picking up this trait is something to seriously consider and making your mortar a cornerstone of both your survivablity and dps.

How so? Well, it comes down to the fields, and the finishers you can proc off them. Blasting Poison is AoE Weakness, which will drop enemy dps and reduce their Endurance regeneration (which will be a big thing now, since Vigor has been nerfed) The best thing from the Light Field isn’t the blast (AoE Ret) but the projectile finisher: Condition Cleanse… and Mortar #1 is a guaranteed projectile finisher with a 1/2 sec cast time. The Frost Aura from Ice Blasts and Leaps is arguably the best kind of Aura out there, reducing incoming damage by 10% and chilling anyone that attacks you, and with Siege Rounds it will last longer than the Frozen Ground Eles can do. Last, but not least, a Water Field that lasts longer than 1 second and isn’t tied to a turret overcharge that you can’t exactly the when on. Never been able to blast our own water fields more than once or twice before, now we will get one that lasts much, much longer… and other than the water one, all these fields should be pulsing Vuln on any enemy that’s standing in them. With Siege Rounds, you’re talking about things like 6s AoE Weakness and Frost Auras, 2.6k healing from Water blasts, and an extra 2.5 seconds to do whatever other finisher you can think of.

Shrapnel: Currently, just about any Grenadier PvE build you find online will have you pick up shrapnel. The damage it brings, even with bleed stacks capped at 25, was what made Engineer dps competitive to what Eles and Thieves could dish out. Now, with the new condition formulas, this won’t be true… For power builds. IMO anyone running a condition Engi build should seriously consider picking up this skill. Even if you have no plans on using Grenade kit, which works with this best, it should also proc off of Bomb Kit fields, Mortar fields, and most importantly (assuming this is still true from the first specialization livestream they did) Pistol 1. While I can certainly see condition builds that do not take Explosives for Shrapnel, nearly every one I can think of is really focused on survival or bunkering, not doing as much condition damage as they possibly can. The cripple will be pretty nice too.

Thermobaric Detonation: I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as More than enough Blast finishers: There are only things that just currently happen to be more important to take than another blast. With the nerf to Vigor, an Engineer with Adrenal Implant will be the only profession that can hit the endurance regen cap of an extra 100% of base. With good vigor uptime, that means a new chance to dodge (and therefore, a new blast finisher) every five seconds. Obviously you should NOT be using your dodges for solely this purpose, but even if you use it only half as often, that’s almost twice as many blast finishers than you’d be able to get with just Thumper Turret over the same amount of time.

That being said, I do kinda want this as a Master trait… So I can abuse it with my 7.5 second Mortar Fields While I do feel Siege Rounds is the superior of the two, I can definitely see myself using this with Soothing Detonation to maximize the number of possible healing blasts.

Anyway, those are might thoughts on it. Can agree that adept traits are ho-hum if your not using nades, and while I think all the master traits are equally good, I can see how you might feel that Aim-Assisted Rocket is the only one worth taking (that being said, Vuln is not that hard at all to maintain for an Engineer, and faster explosions for Bomb kit is like Shatter Mes clones getting Super Speed with Chronomancer; Try the build in PvP for a day or to and you’ll quickly realize why a non-damage trait can give so much joy)

Foefaller.1082:

Anyway, those are might thoughts on it. Can agree that adept traits are ho-hum if your not using nades, and while I think all the master traits are equally good, I can see how you might feel that Aim-Assisted Rocket is the only one worth taking (that being said, Vuln is not that hard at all to maintain for an Engineer, and faster explosions for Bomb kit is like Shatter Mes clones getting Super Speed with Chronomancer; Try the build in PvP for a day or to and you’ll quickly realize why a non-damage trait can give so much joy)

Actually I feel that Shaped Charge and Short Fuse are a lot more worth taking that Aim-assisted Rocket but Aim assisted Rocket may end up being too good to pass up. You can do without Short Fuse but, it’s a nice addition.

I see your points about the GMs but, again those GMs only affect a certain type of build which means that the Explosives line isn’t as useful to other builds. Taking what Jugglemonkey said into account, the system is called “Specializations” so that may be the reason but I doubt that considering how well designed and free-form the other lines are.

I mean just go through all the GM traits for the other lines and think about how you could use them in place of what you’ve put in the explosives line and I’m sure you’ll find something more interesting than fields that last 2s longer.

Dirame.8521:

Foefaller.1082:

Anyway, those are might thoughts on it. Can agree that adept traits are ho-hum if your not using nades, and while I think all the master traits are equally good, I can see how you might feel that Aim-Assisted Rocket is the only one worth taking (that being said, Vuln is not that hard at all to maintain for an Engineer, and faster explosions for Bomb kit is like Shatter Mes clones getting Super Speed with Chronomancer; Try the build in PvP for a day or to and you’ll quickly realize why a non-damage trait can give so much joy)

Actually I feel that Shaped Charge and Short Fuse are a lot more worth taking that Aim-assisted Rocket but Aim assisted Rocket may end up being too good to pass up. You can do without Short Fuse but, it’s a nice addition.

I see your points about the GMs but, again those GMs only affect a certain type of build which means that the Explosives line isn’t as useful to other builds. Taking what Jugglemonkey said into account, the system is called “Specializations” so that may be the reason but I doubt that considering how well designed and free-form the other lines are.

I mean just go through all the GM traits for the other lines and think about how you could use them in place of what you’ve put in the explosives line and I’m sure you’ll find something more interesting than fields that last 2s longer.

To be fair, most of the other GM traits could also be said to only affect “a certain type of build”

Juggernaut requires FT
Modified Ammo has you stacking conditions, even if it’s a power build (Guess what would help with that?)
IP is only good if your running an actual condition build, thanks to the Condition changes
Advanced Turrets requires Turrets
Medical Dispersion Field has no use if you’re soloing
HGH is for Elixirs
Stimulant Supplier requires Med kit to proc as often as it can (assuming it works like most on heal traits/Runes)
Iron Blooded has you stacking boons, which means either a friendly guardian, Experimental Turrets, Med Kit with no Stimulant Supplier, Elixirs with no HGH, or some combination of them all
Gadgeteer requires Gadgets

That leaves Bunker Down, Kinetic Charge, and Adrenal Implant as the “good for everyone” GM traits, maybe also Stimulant Supplier if it doesn’t trigger on Med Kit swap. I guess I could take one from each specialization (though I’d have to choose between KC and AI) but it seems that it would make me a very tanky engineer, and most of the skills that I’d want to use would have better traits for them in Explosives or Firearms.

I’d also put Thermobaric Detonation on that list of good for all GM traits, even if Siege Rounds appeals to me more (unless you’re running a build with absolutely no fields whatsoever). Like I said, I do not believe there is such a thing as more blast finishers than necessary.

The crux of the issue with the line is that most of the traits are really situational or balanced around grenades.

Shrapnel is an absurdly strong trait if you’re using grenades. It is nearly 100% cripple uptime and several bleed stacks. If you try to use it with mortar, bombs, pistol or rifle, it is a pretty weak trait. It isn’t completely awful, but you’re basically getting 1/3 of the chance to proc it that grenades provides. Steel packed powder has the same issue. It is pretty strong for grenades and kinda ho hum for the other weapons/kits.

The cooldown on Thermobaric makes it significantly less useful. It works well enough in a build using Soothing Detonation, but blasting specific fields you want with the powder kegs is less than reliable.

The mortar kit trait is handy if you’re running something like zerg support, but it is again situational. You’re getting really long fields, which is certainly worth something, but isn’t really a must have pick for a lot of builds.

Overall, I’d say the line looks really good if you’re focused on the grenade kit, but the options for non-grenade use are pretty niche.

Dirame.8521:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Explosives is great for grenades and bombs, as you say. It’s maybe not as good for other builds, but considering the lines are now called SPECIALISATIONS, wanting each one to benefit each build equally is actually a bit silly.

Of course the explosives specialisation won’t help you as much as other options if you don’t use explosives. That’s pretty obvious.

Good point. But my thought is still that even if you ran grenades, you could still run any other line because they could offer you way more. I mean yea you’ve got Shrapnel but, Firearms has Incendiary Powder, Explosives has vuln on explosions but Firearms has vuln on crit.

I just feel the usefulness of the other lines far out-shine the Explosives line.

That’s fair enough, you have a point there. I still think grenades will be far better with explosives if only for the projectile speed, and I plan on taking explosives if only for the blast on dodge. That with bombs and healing turret will be amazing.

That being said, I’ve often thought that the grenades are mostly good because of the way they interact with traits like the vuln minor in explosives (which makes rifle and toolkit better by extension) and their 1500 range. This makes the changes to mortar and grenade kit interesting to me as I’m wondering whether you can do well with the bomb kit (with reduced fuse time) and mortar kit as a replacement to grenades.

I don’t actually think nades will drop out the meta incidentally, as with explosives grenades are going to be excellent. I do think that with inventions and tools set to be staples for engi (at least for me they will be), explosives is still the best line for a power build, especially with grenades. It’ll just be interesting to see how reliant power based grenades builds are on things like the vuln trait when you don’t have to take that specialisation just for grenades to be worth taking.

Foefaller.1082:

To be fair, most of the other GM traits could also be said to only affect “a certain type of build”

Juggernaut requires FT
Modified Ammo has you stacking conditions, even if it’s a power build (Guess what would help with that?)
IP is only good if your running an actual condition build, thanks to the Condition changes
Advanced Turrets requires Turrets
Medical Dispersion Field has no use if you’re soloing
HGH is for Elixirs
Stimulant Supplier requires Med kit to proc as often as it can (assuming it works like most on heal traits/Runes)
Iron Blooded has you stacking boons, which means either a friendly guardian, Experimental Turrets, Med Kit with no Stimulant Supplier, Elixirs with no HGH, or some combination of them all
Gadgeteer requires Gadgets

Yeap, there’s one trait in every GM tree that requires a skill or weapon. The explosives line still remains the least useful in my opinion and overtime you guys may end up seeing it too.

Modified Ammo can be used with Nades or Elixir Gun or Bombs or Pistol or even Rifle

IP is great in all builds. Don’t make the mistake of thinking it isn’t good in power builds. It’s amazing for sustained damage.

Advanced turrets requires turrets. Still more useful than two Orbital strikes because; Healing turret.

Stimulant Supplier doesn’t say anything about requiring a Medkit. That’s like saying Rune of Balth requires the Medkit when we’ve been using it with HT all this time.

Iron Blooded works with the first minor trait in Alchemy. And considering we’ll be privy to at least 3 boons most of the time (swiftness, vigor, regeneration) and 4 when we’re CC’ed (protection). I would say it’s something to consider but it actually might be a better minor trait than it is a GM thinking about it now. But yea, it’s very functional without people being around you.

HGH is also affect by Hidden Flask. So you could take it if you wanted to just to get 2 extra might stacks for the proc.

Foefaller.1082:

That leaves Bunker Down, Kinetic Charge, and Adrenal Implant as the “good for everyone” GM traits, maybe also Stimulant Supplier if it doesn’t trigger on Med Kit swap. I guess I could take one from each specialization (though I’d have to choose between KC and AI) but it seems that it would make me a very tanky engineer, and most of the skills that I’d want to use would have better traits for them in Explosives or Firearms.

I’d also put Thermobaric Detonation on that list of good for all GM traits, even if Siege Rounds appeals to me more (unless you’re running a build with absolutely no fields whatsoever). Like I said, I do not believe there is such a thing as more blast finishers than necessary.

The traits will make you more survivable, yes, but not necessarily tanky. That all depends on the amulets and runes now.

So I’ve been thinking. I’ve been doing a lot of complaining with not a lot of suggesting so I have a few ideas on how things should be relocated and retooled and I’d like to share them below. Some people who have shared their thoughts here may not like my suggestions but, what’s new?

ADEPT TIER
Minor remains the same, Grenadier remains the same.

Explosive Descent stays the same

Replace Glass Cannon With; Near-Death Trigger: When you go down, trigger an explosion that launches foes.

MASTER TIER:
Modify Minor trait Steel-Packed Powder to include Thermobaric Detonation: Explosions cause vulnerability. Evasive Powder keg is a blast finisher

Replace Aim-assisted Rocket with; Sticky Grenade: Hitting targets in Melee places a sticky charge on them that explodes after 1s. The explosion applies 5 stacks of vuln dazes them and is unblockable. ICD (10s) (I suggest this mainly to have something that rewards us for how we play on different ranges. Rewards us for getting in there and punching things in the face. Would work immensely with hammer when it arrives)

Shaped Charge becomes 10% instead of 5 to make up for the loss in Glass Canon and Short Fuse remains the same

GRANDMASTER TIER: Are you ready? Please don’t crucify me

Minor trait Explosive Powder remains the same.

Replace Siege Rounds with Forceful Explosives: Explosions that Knockback, Launch or Push also cause knockdown for 2s. (this affects Big Ol’ bomb, Throw Mine, Turrets affected by Explosive Powder, Magnetic Bomb and the Adept tier trait that I suggested above; Near-Death Trigger.)

Shrapnel
Successful Blast finishers apply 4 stacks of bleeding, vuln and cripple for 6s to foes in the area.

As Thermobaric Detonation is now in a Minor Master trait, a new trait can now be created.

Concussive Blast;
You have a 33% chance to confuse a foe when you hit with an explosive. ICD 30s. Hitting a foe that has vuln above the threshold [15 stacks] with an explosive applies 2 stacks of Bleeding, 5 stacks of confusion, slow and weakness for 5s. [ICD 30s]

As unlikely as the above is to happen, it would be nice and I think it would be amazing for all sorts of builds if it did. But that’s just my opinion.

Dirame.8521:

Foefaller.1082:

To be fair, most of the other GM traits could also be said to only affect “a certain type of build”

Juggernaut requires FT
Modified Ammo has you stacking conditions, even if it’s a power build (Guess what would help with that?)
IP is only good if your running an actual condition build, thanks to the Condition changes
Advanced Turrets requires Turrets
Medical Dispersion Field has no use if you’re soloing
HGH is for Elixirs
Stimulant Supplier requires Med kit to proc as often as it can (assuming it works like most on heal traits/Runes)
Iron Blooded has you stacking boons, which means either a friendly guardian, Experimental Turrets, Med Kit with no Stimulant Supplier, Elixirs with no HGH, or some combination of them all
Gadgeteer requires Gadgets

Yeap, there’s one trait in every GM tree that requires a skill or weapon. The explosives line still remains the least useful in my opinion and overtime you guys may end up seeing it too.

Modified Ammo can be used with Nades or Elixir Gun or Bombs or Pistol or even Rifle

IP is great in all builds. Don’t make the mistake of thinking it isn’t good in power builds. It’s amazing for sustained damage.

You do know that, with no condition damage, IP will no only do 700 damage every 10 seconds, right? Base burning damage will be cut to almost a third of what is was before.

Advanced turrets requires turrets. Still more useful than two Orbital strikes because; Healing turret.

If you can call Advanced Turrets more generally useful than Siege Rounds just because everyone runs Healing Turret, then I reserve the right to say declare Siege Rounds as a generally useful trait if and when Mortar Kit replaces Supply Drop as the de-facto Engi Elite skill. Deal?

Dirame.8521:

Stimulant Supplier doesn’t say anything about requiring a Medkit. That’s like saying Rune of Balth requires the Medkit when we’ve been using it with HT all this time.

Iron Blooded works with the first minor trait in Alchemy. And considering we’ll be privy to at least 3 boons most of the time (swiftness, vigor, regeneration) and 4 when we’re CC’ed (protection). I would say it’s something to consider but it actually might be a better minor trait than it is a GM thinking about it now. But yea, it’s very functional without people being around you.

HGH is also affect by Hidden Flask. So you could take it if you wanted to just to get 2 extra might stacks for the proc.

Wasn’t there somebody saying that Shrapnel felt worthless as a GM trait because you “had” to take grenades for it, even though there were other skills that could use it?

Dirame.8521:

Foefaller.1082:

That leaves Bunker Down, Kinetic Charge, and Adrenal Implant as the “good for everyone” GM traits, maybe also Stimulant Supplier if it doesn’t trigger on Med Kit swap. I guess I could take one from each specialization (though I’d have to choose between KC and AI) but it seems that it would make me a very tanky engineer, and most of the skills that I’d want to use would have better traits for them in Explosives or Firearms.

I’d also put Thermobaric Detonation on that list of good for all GM traits, even if Siege Rounds appeals to me more (unless you’re running a build with absolutely no fields whatsoever). Like I said, I do not believe there is such a thing as more blast finishers than necessary.

The traits will make you more survivable, yes, but not necessarily tanky. That all depends on the amulets and runes now.

traits, especially damage, cooldown and condition proc traits, will still have a big impact on a build’s potential damage output. I guess I could, in theory, still run an S/D build with something like that, but I’d at the very least want some crit effects from Firearms if I’m going to do that.

EDIT:Also, you’ve never actually used Fortified Turrets (which is the main part of Advanced Turrets) before, have you? It doesn’t work with the way everyone uses Healing Turret at all.

Foefaller.1082:

You do know that, with no condition damage, IP will no only do 700 damage every 10 seconds, right? Base burning damage will be cut to almost a third of what is was before.

Even with that, as long as it’s doing damage at moments when you possibly can’t hit the target, it’s still useful. The amount of times burning has been the difference between downed and escaping, I personally can’t count but we’ll see how ineffective it is soon.

Foefaller.1082:

If you can call Advanced Turrets more generally useful than Siege Rounds just because everyone runs Healing Turret, then I reserve the right to say declare Siege Rounds as a generally useful trait if and when Mortar Kit replaces Supply Drop as the de-facto Engi Elite skill. Deal?

EDIT:Also, you’ve never actually used the old Fortified turrets before, have you? It doesn’t synergize with the way everyone uses Healing Turret at all.

Nah. And here’s the reason why; I don’t know how powerful Orbital Strike is but based on what I’ve seen and the amount of seconds it’s really adding to your fields…. it really isn’t that great. 2s extra? Really? That’s what you call useful? I personally don’t see it unless that healing field rezzes downed allies or something.

And of course you have to change the way you use healing turret to maximize the reflection field. But just think about this scenario; your ally is downed and there are a bunch of characters using projectile abilities like Thieves and Engies, just toss down your HT and rez your teammate. Or just to mess with a ranger who uses bow or a necro when they pop Lich.

I actually came up with a trait that would be perfect if it was rolled in with Siege Rounds.
I call it Smoke Signal; When you place a smoke field, call in an orbital strike at that location. When you manually call in an Orbital Strike, you get an extra strike. Mortar Fields last 40% longer.

In my opinion, the above would be perfect. Just think of the synergies…

Foefaller.1082:

Wasn’t there somebody saying that Shrapnel felt worthless as a GM trait because you “had” to take grenades for it, even though there were other skills that could use it?

Not sure what you mean here. Are you talking about Stimulant Supplier? Because the level of effectiveness between Medkit and HT for that trait isn’t that large. You can probably keep it up all the time if you were diligent with your HT usage. Whilst with Shrapnel and Grenades the effectiveness of Grenades is vastly greater than that of bombs or any other explosive.

Foefaller.1082:

traits, especially damage, cooldown and condition proc traits, will still have a big impact on a build’s potential damage output. I guess I could, in theory, still run an S/D build with something like that, but I’d at the very least want some crit effects from Firearms if I’m going to do that.

Definitely.

Dirame.8521:

Nah. And here’s the reason why; I don’t know how powerful Orbital Strike is but based on what I’ve seen and the amount of seconds it’s really adding to your fields…. it really isn’t that great. 2s extra? Really? That’s what you call useful? I personally don’t see it unless that healing field rezzes downed allies or something.

It’s more time with finishers, particularly the 1 skill, Mortar Shot. A 100% projectile finisher that is also an AoE with a 1/2sec cast time: the extra 2.5 seconds on those fields spamming that one skill could mean 5 more stacks of poison, 5 additional condition cleanses, an extra 5 seconds of chilled on your target or 5 extra seconds of regeneration on yourself and/or allies… and if the Streamlined Kits effect for Mortar also benefits from this… 5 more stacks of 5sec confusion.

and that is just when one target is involved. The first thing I plan to do tomorrow after the patch is to test out the 1 skill when the comboing shot involves multiple targets and/or allies. What if you could spam AoE poison or confusion on everything in range, or cleanse as many as five conditions off of yourself and nearby allies every half second? Wouldn’t you want that dream scenario to last as long as possible if it were real?

Like I said before, double blast on Orbital Strike is almost merely the icing on the cake.

Currently not using explosive trait line, not rewarding at all compared to other lines (in both power or condi oriented builds)
Useless glass canon
Blast finisher (tier 3) not really useful.
No use of 2 orbital strikes
Low amount of bleeding if not taking grenades.
Useless/bugged trait for bombs.

do I need to continue?

/ninjaBumpThread

Arantheal.7396:

Î disagree.

While explosives still bring awesome synergy to condi and hybrid-builds, they’re meant to be taken for powerbuilds anyways.

the minors speak for themselves. dodge-bomb, vuln and more dmg / cc
when it comes to adept-tier, yes it’s lackluster for power-pvp builds that decide against nades, but you have to keep in mind the synergy with inventions when it comes to blast-heals (and you get a ton of them from explosions), so glass-cannon is a valid pick for PvP.

moving on to master-tier, we have the incredible useful short fuse. at least you did recognize it as the valuable trait it is. What you’ve failed to realize is the seeker-missle for what it brings: a free attack without cast-animation, judging from its parent-skill with decent dps as well. yes, it’s quite rng, but since it procs on hit it will be useful for all kinds of builds, especially when you spam #1 in downstate and suddenly the guy that tries to stomp you gets hit like a truck. since the oil-puddle on always prepared was so small, this trait has much more potential to prevent a stomp (via bringing your opponent into downstane) than always prepared could have ever achieved.

shaped charge: 5% more dmg (on top of the 10% of the minor) for free, since we spam so much explosives that your targets most of the time will have vulnerability. so by picking this trait, you theoretically have 15 stacks of vulnerability permanently on a target, and still can go up 25 more. 15% to 40% more dmg from picking this line with shaped charge. up to 45% if you also pick glass-cannon. this is huge.
Keep in mind that vulnerability will also increase condi-dmg now, while pistol AA is counted as “explosion”…

and then we have the grandmasters.
I mean, that’s the point where you make yourself ridiculous. EPK becoming a blast-finisher? while we also have a trait in inventions that allows us to directly heal with blasts? While we have a tools-grandmaster that gives us perma-vigor (since vigor got nerfed)? Wat?
Add on top of this sigil of energy or elixir R (that coincidentally clears immob) and we look on one hell of a build-defining trait.

Then the mortar grandmaster.
2 blasts in a row, every 40 seconds, increased duration on aoe – chill, -poison and -blind fields, all valuable soft-cc’s. this alone is huge for power-builds, but add on top of that kinetic charge. 4 blasts + 4x BoB-like dmg in a row. or 2 blasts + 2x BoB every 20 seconds, while being able to drop a (enhanced duration) waterfield with the same kit…
take juggernaut in firearms, give yourself stab with flamethrower and then OS + netshot to set people up for this burst. Or cleave downed people with this dmg. Or simply hammer the kitten out of svanir or chieftain / contested points, or out of rezzing / stomping people…

You seem to not have understood what synergy and “build-defining” means if you can’t recognize this huge frekkin moose in the hallway…

Am with you, I run it, exactly for those mortar fields and that double tap from orbital strike is so awesome. Rest of my build is condi, specifically burning pistol/pistol FT.

IA+Blowtorch+FT4+F5(double blast on the fire field)+FT1 = absolute ownage hands down, no ifs ands or butts.

Foefaller.1082:

…all these fields should be pulsing Vuln on any enemy that’s standing in them.

They do not, and should not because they don’t pulse explotions.

Foefaller.1082:

…and most importantly (assuming this is still true from the first specialization livestream they did) Pistol 1.

Don’t hold your breath, the engineer we have now is completly diffrent from the first livestream engineer. There is nothing indicating that we will get the explosive tag on Pistol 1#.

Foefaller.1082:

Adrenal Implant will be the only profession that can hit the endurance regen cap of an extra 100% of base.

They do not stack, Proff

Foefaller.1082:

that means a new chance to dodge (and therefore, a new blast finisher) every five seconds.

This trait have a 10 sec cooldown.

There are a bunch of other misstakes in your post, but I can’t be bothered to cover it all.

Holy Necrothread Ba-man!

While most of the other trees absolutely suck. The only problem I have with explosives at the moment is that they should get rid of grenadier since the skill sucks and replace it with explosive radius increase. Outside of grenadier sucking, I think they should replace one of the last skills with that synaptic overload skill and then Id be content. ALL of the rest of the trees suck, especially the healing tree. Ya almost should just run around treeless and you’d get just about the same effect.

Nieguen.6235:

No use of 2 orbital strikes

This is crazy to me. It’s unblockable 360 distance radial damage that also happens to be a blast finisher on a kit that has multiple fields, on a class that has the most field coverage of any. Blast water if you need heals. Blast light if you need retaliation (which kills mesmers pretty effectively, might I add). Blast fire if you need might.

Or just use it for AoE damage. It covers an entire point.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Nieguen.6235:

No use of 2 orbital strikes

This is crazy to me. It’s unblockable 360 distance radial damage that also happens to be a blast finisher on a kit that has multiple fields, on a class that has the most field coverage of any. Blast water if you need heals. Blast light if you need retaliation (which kills mesmers pretty effectively, might I add). Blast fire if you need might.

Or just use it for AoE damage. It covers an entire point.

But is it really worthy of being a GM trait though?

Dirame.8521:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Nieguen.6235:

No use of 2 orbital strikes

This is crazy to me. It’s unblockable 360 distance radial damage that also happens to be a blast finisher on a kit that has multiple fields, on a class that has the most field coverage of any. Blast water if you need heals. Blast light if you need retaliation (which kills mesmers pretty effectively, might I add). Blast fire if you need might.

Or just use it for AoE damage. It covers an entire point.

But is it really worthy of being a GM trait though?

Expanding the duration of several fields, inclusive a water field, and adding another blast finisher…….absolutely it is.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Nieguen.6235:

No use of 2 orbital strikes

This is crazy to me. It’s unblockable 360 distance radial damage that also happens to be a blast finisher on a kit that has multiple fields, on a class that has the most field coverage of any. Blast water if you need heals. Blast light if you need retaliation (which kills mesmers pretty effectively, might I add). Blast fire if you need might.

Or just use it for AoE damage. It covers an entire point.

Yes for Pve.
For PvP: It is far more interesting to take an other elite + other gm trait and not take this “grenades” oriented line. HGH/incendiary powder/Bunker Down, supply crate (elixir X for moa shut down, e.g. Lich Necromancer)

Explosives branch is really simple, and I don’t need a video to make my point about it.

1. Good if you play grenade
2. Good if you play some power or bombs
3. Good if you play mortar

The less you fit this 3 points, the more your choices meet poorly designed traits.

NineLives.8725:

Explosives branch is really simple, and I don’t need a video to make my point about it.

1. Good if you play grenade
2. Good if you play some power or bombs
3. Good if you play mortar

The less you fit this 3 points, the more your choices meet poorly designed traits.

you can just not run the line if you’re not running any explosive kits. i’m running alchemy, inventions and firearms and it’s sweet with Egun and TK.

Nieguen.6235:

For PvP: It is far more interesting to take an other elite + other gm trait and not take this “grenades” oriented line. HGH/incendiary powder/Bunker Down, supply crate (elixir X for moa shut down, e.g. Lich Necromancer)

I disagree.

I think Elixir X and Supply Crate both have their advantages, but so does Mortar Kit. Blasting that water field has kept my lord alive enough to finish off theirs on several occasions in Stronghold yesterday—usually coinciding with downing a few of them as well. Orbital Strike crits for like 3K in Marauder + Pack runes, and it’s unblockable and hits twice (or four times with Kinetic Battery). A well placed Orbital Strike and Jump Shot, with some luck from crits, is seriously all I need to put thieves and mesmers on the defensive.

Siege Rounds is a perfectly fine trait, especially for power-centric builds. The only thing that Firearms really offers is Modified Ammo, which while good, has always been more of a PvE trait.

I only go up Firearms if I’m not using the Grenade Kit—like the Flamethrower or something. But if I am using grenades, and if I’m specced for power, Explosives is a great line. When you can 100-0 somebody by magnet pulling them into a Streamlined Kit’s Grenade Kit mine, Grenade Barrage, and Aim-Assisted Rocket, often right out of stealth, it’s pretty hilarious.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I disagree.

I think Elixir X and Supply Crate both have their advantages, but so does Mortar Kit. Blasting that water field has kept my lord alive enough to finish off theirs on several occasions in Stronghold, yesterday—usually coinciding with downing a few of them as well. Orbital Strike crits for like 3K in Marauder + Pack runes, and it’s unblockable and hits twice (or four times with Kinetic Battery). A well placed Orbital Strike and Jump Shot, with some luck from crits, is seriously all I need to put thieves and mesmers on the defensive.

Siege Rounds is a perfectly fine trait, especially for power-centric builds. The only thing that Firearms really offers is Modified Ammo, which while good, has always been more of a PvE trait.

4 Orbital strikes is pretty cool, even I have to admit that but, we could still do with better traits in that line. I mean come on, are you really going to argue for Glass cannon and Shrapnel or even Thermobaric Deto considering it’s cooldown?

Phineas Poe.3018:

I only go up Firearms if I’m not using the Grenade Kit—like the Flamethrower or something. But if I am using grenades, and if I’m specced for power, Explosives is a great line. When you can 100-0 somebody by magnet pulling them into a Streamlined Kit’s Grenade Kit mine, Grenade Barrage, and Aim-Assisted Rocket right out of stealth, it’s pretty hilarious.

You can do that without the Explosives line. Bunker down in Inventions could also fill the role of Aim Assisted Rocket in that scenario you painted.

Dirame.8521:

4 Orbital strikes is pretty cool, even I have to admit that but, we could still do with better traits in that line. I mean come on, are you really going to argue for Glass cannon and Shrapnel or even Thermobaric Deto considering it’s cooldown?

Ceimash, every tree has its weak traits. And now that it’s an all-or-none package deal when you pick a trait line, there’s no such thing as “grandmaster” traits anymore aside from a formality/homage to the old system.

Is anyone taking Autodefense Bomb Dispenser instead of Over Shield or AMR? Or Medical Dispersion Field over Bunker Down? I definitely agree that Explosives probably has the most traits that need fixing, especially now that Firearms can complement rifle, pistol/pistol, and FT builds so well, but its one-dimensionality toward the Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit, and Mortar Kit also means that choosing it makes those options all the more powerful.

As others (and I) have said, the tree is perfect if you’re running a build that utilizes those choices. If you’re not using the Mortar Kit, if you’re not using grenades and bombs, then you’ll probably obtain better gains running Firearms (and I would say Short Fuse even then probably isn’t enough to warrant Explosives versus High Caliber) and buffing your rifle or pistol damage.

Dirame.8521:

You can do that without the Explosives line. Bunker down in Inventions could also fill the role of Aim Assisted Rocket in that scenario you painted.

Bunker Down’s mine without Explosive Powder does like 30% the damage of Aim Assisted Rocket, and requires me being hit. You’ll notice that in that screenshot I had already taken a lot of damage clearing out their guards with that guy on me. He nearly killed me, but I got a Toss Elixir S off and dropped a Healing Turret from stealth. I said screw it, saw Streamlined Kits was up, and was literally a magnet pull -> Grenade Kit swap → Grenade Barrage. He was downed instantly.

Your reaching really hard to stick to your guns in irrationally hating the explosives line.

If you can see no argument for Shrapnel, then you must just hate doing damage. And Bunker down compared to AAR? One is a mine that you have to bait a really bad player into, the other is a solid piece of damage that targets and comes to them.

I do no understand your obsession here, but if you hate the explosives line so much, why do you simply just not use it, and go on about your business?

It’s also important to remember that, when they get it functioning correctly, Explosive Powder is going to complement Jump Shot and Flame Blast. It’s a power tree, and when you factor in all the other damage modifiers like Glass Cannon and Shaped Charge, Pry Bar + Flame Blast + Jump Shot burst out of Elixir S stealth will pack a serious punch.

But I definitely agree with Ceimash that Shrapnel is kind of underwhelming. Explosives seems to be all about power-centric damage and they slot this bleeding trait in at the end of it. They should change the bleeding to something more situationally useful to grenades, bombs, and mortar, like chill on hit or torment on hit—something to penalize movement and/or movement speeds. It does have the cripple, but I think 2 seconds on a 15% chance is a bit meh.

Thermobaric Detonation should also have its cooldown halved or completely removed.

But I think overall the tree is great, and aside from Explosive Descent and Thermobaric Detonation, every trait is taken between PvE and PvP.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Bunker Down’s mine without Explosive Powder does like 30% the damage of Aim Assisted Rocket, and requires me being hit. You’ll notice that in that screenshot I had already taken a lot of damage clearing out their guards with that guy on me. He nearly killed me, but I got a Toss Elixir S off and dropped a Healing Turret from stealth. I said screw it, saw Streamlined Kits was up, and was literally a magnet pull -> Grenade Kit swap -> Grenade Barrage. He was downed instantly.

Bunker down only requires that you crit to proc it and it’s cooldown guarantees that you’ll proc it more often than Rocket. But it’s not good against ranged classes though so I guess that’s what Aim-Assisted Rocket is for.

Thermobaric Detonation does need to be replaced. it’s a terrible trait with the nerf to the powder keg.

choovanski.5462:

Thermobaric Detonation does need to be replaced. it’s a terrible trait with the nerf to the powder keg.

Doesn’t need to be replaced but it needs to be moved away from GM in my opinion

Dirame.8521:

choovanski.5462:

Thermobaric Detonation does need to be replaced. it’s a terrible trait with the nerf to the powder keg.

Doesn’t need to be replaced but it needs to be moved away from GM in my opinion

nope. with a 10sec ICD and no icon showing when you have the trait active it needs to go. you never know when you have it, so how can you make use of it?

choovanski.5462:

Dirame.8521:

choovanski.5462:

Thermobaric Detonation does need to be replaced. it’s a terrible trait with the nerf to the powder keg.

Doesn’t need to be replaced but it needs to be moved away from GM in my opinion

nope. with a 10sec ICD and no icon showing when you have the trait active it needs to go. you never know when you have it, so how can you make use of it?

In my opinion it definitely needs the icon to signify when its up and also needs to be moved to Master Minor tier, combined with Steal Packed powder.

Dirame.8521:

choovanski.5462:

Dirame.8521:

choovanski.5462:

Thermobaric Detonation does need to be replaced. it’s a terrible trait with the nerf to the powder keg.

Doesn’t need to be replaced but it needs to be moved away from GM in my opinion

nope. with a 10sec ICD and no icon showing when you have the trait active it needs to go. you never know when you have it, so how can you make use of it?

In my opinion it definitely needs the icon to signify when its up and also needs to be moved to Master Minor tier, combined with Steal Packed powder.

icon and a merge would be awesome.

why merge with steel packed powder when it could merge with evasive powder keg and fit better thematically…

i agree the icd (and evasives new icd) kills it for me, but im uncertain that a blast on dodge is something i should get just for taking explosives and i think i should prolly have to choose it within explosives.

hmm… the choice of kit grease vs power buff vs condi buff feels like a meaningful (if simple) choice to me. the problem is that none of the tiers of explosives fully provide that atm, with condi getting the clear short end of the stick.

Dirame.8521:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Bunker Down’s mine without Explosive Powder does like 30% the damage of Aim Assisted Rocket, and requires me being hit. You’ll notice that in that screenshot I had already taken a lot of damage clearing out their guards with that guy on me. He nearly killed me, but I got a Toss Elixir S off and dropped a Healing Turret from stealth. I said screw it, saw Streamlined Kits was up, and was literally a magnet pull -> Grenade Kit swap -> Grenade Barrage. He was downed instantly.

Bunker down only requires that you crit to proc it and it’s cooldown guarantees that you’ll proc it more often than Rocket. But it’s not good against ranged classes though so I guess that’s what Aim-Assisted Rocket is for.

You’re right, I was mixed up.

Still, Bunker Down is significantly less damage than Aim Assisted Rocket, and without Explosive Powder it just gets that much worse. I think Inventions all together is a very overrated tree. It was great when AMR had a 10 second cooldown, but unless you’re planning on taking a support role, Firearms+Inventions or Inventions+Tools is a pretty considerable downgrade in damage compared to Explosives+Tools or Firearms+Tools.