Guild Wars 2

the problem with engi is… the player!!

Engi is not a simple class, you wont get a 10k from backstab like a theif, 25k burst from a HB warrior, or the stupid healing from a guardian.. what do all those classes have in common, the player only gotta press 1 skill.. that takes skill doesnt it ?

Engineer’s for me, they are more about combos and setting up spikes.. if you play kits, you have dozens of different options like;

Setting up conclusion bomb and then quickly using acid comb ( elixir kit ) to leave an AoE and get out meele range, takes 1 seconds and does 4-5k per second on berserkers

if being chased, set up a big ol’ bomb > dodge backwards > immobilize > blunderbuss etc

Drop a smoke bomb and dance around for a few secs while you DPS..

need a quick snare? switch to granade kit and drop a freeze granade and then back out to your weapon

kit refinement trait tricks ;
-Switch to Elixir gun and #5 Super Elixir.. that’s 2 AoE light fields that remove condition and heal overtime on a short CD..

-Go to meele range, and in between skills switch to bomb kit for the free bombs from kit refinement and switch out, you can do this with auto attack and double your dps since it has no delays, animation or cool-down..

and lots more…!!!!

If kits were meant to be used to go in, burn all cool downs and then out, we would have a much longer recharge on them like ele’s elements.. and also, you’re not meant to be on a kit forever, its sickening to see an engi on full time bomb kits on the enemies faces, ofc you gonna die… or flamethrower for an entire fight, cool animation dude, 0 damage, you get booted from team

If you wanna play engi properly, you must think outside of the box.. Elixir U, horrible for going in battle, you either can’t dodge, can’t heal or take double damage.. fun ? no really, but how about using it to ress? it can full down heal anyone in no time and it comes with a handy walls or stealth to protect you!! this comes really useful for higher level fractals and or bosses

Utility goggles, its a WvW skill that helps alot to cap supply camps, etc

in conclusion, engineer is NOT a broken class, just has a broken player base.. if you’re used to a warrior, guardian, thief, ele ( used to think it required a lot of skill but its mostly key bindings ) you are gonna HATE engineer or also if you play the class because you just like to press 461321464 skills because you think its fun without actually getting to know what they do, then you’re not doing it right.. with engis your play style is more important then the gear,runes,sigils etc that you’re using

btw: just because we’re not broken, doesnt mean we dont have broken skills/weapons

1) Gadgets, the abilities are fun & useful but… they get handicapped by the undeserved LONG Cool downs…

2) Turrents are simply broken ( excluding net/healing turrets )
– they don’t scale with your damage
- most of the time attack dead bodies ( poor AI )
- and skills are unreliable since you have to wait for the next attack to triggers special abilities…

this sucks, because the concept is really nice and could have such a simple fix, no need to change it’s attacks or damage or anything, simply allow the turret to scale with the players attack/condition damage. Force them to attack the target that you’re targeting (this would help prevent AFK farming as-well and finally; force turrets to use special skills instantly ( we know Anet can do it because they did it to guardian spirit weapons ) so if you need a snare from the net turrent, or a smoke screen from the flame turrent, you can have it instantly, even if it comes with a toll like; the turret won’t attack for the next couple of seconds, etc

3) Pistol, damage is extremely low and although people argue they are condition weapons.. guess what? poison and burning stack on duration so if you’re playing on a team you’re stuck hitting 150-1k depending on build and stacks 4 Bleeds!!!!!!! Mind Blowing!!! this is a 1 2 3 weapon tho, and so *favored by large part of the engi community and between this and flamethrower they are the reasons why people think we have no damage when in reality we have damage, but those weapons dont…

the reason i made this post its because its annoying seeing our own players saying bull like engi’s are useless or can’t compare to other classes, the class itself can, can the player tho ? i go on sPvP and usually go straight for the engi to see what they are about, and 90% of the time they suck.. i go on fractals and 90% other engi suck, the gap between good and bad, sadly most of them fall on the negative side of the scale.. so STOP WHINING and learn to play the class, love it! and trust me you will never want to go back to simpler classes.. they are just BORING

ps: this is coming from a sPvP Rank 36 and FotM 50! and all engi, so.. hopefully i have an idea of what i’m talking about lol

I respect other engineers who have gotten the profession to work for them. While I agree with you that engineers have a lot of potential in skilled hands, “stop whining” threads usually do more harm than good.

If you are rank 36 in pvp, 50 FotM, and have also apparently done a lot of WvW and leveled several other professions, you probably have at least 600 hours of experience (maybe twice that). That puts you in a great position to give helpful advice to people leveling an engineer or struggling to put together a good tournament build. The other engineers you’re beating in hotjoin have literally 3-5% of your experience. Literally. Some probably less. Of course they’re not as good as you.

Edit: the trait you are referencing is actually “kit refinement.” Also, the bomb from switching kits does not hit unless you’re playing without forceful explosives.

google.3709:

what do all those classes have in common, the player only gotta press 1 skill.. that takes skill doesnt it ?

play grenade, you will press the “1 skill” a lot :P

The short version: Engineers can be just as good as any other profession overall, but be ready for the very disproportionately high skill level required to achieve the same level results other professions can get much more easily.

Imperatora.7654:

google.3709:

what do all those classes have in common, the player only gotta press 1 skill.. that takes skill doesnt it ?

play grenade, you will press the “1 skill” a lot :P

that’s the people asking for a carpal tunnel lol as i engi i believe you shouldnt stay on a kit more than a few secs to use the skills you need!!

aydenunited.5729:

The short version: Engineers can be just as good as any other profession overall, but be ready for the very disproportionately high skill level required to achieve the same level results other professions can get much more easily.

not at all each profession is diff, engi is more complicated and hard to get a grasp around but also is more fun and rewarding than most classes, and just because they r hard doesnt make them bad, just means you can become that much better

NevirSayDie.6235:

I respect other engineers who have gotten the profession to work for them. While I agree with you that engineers have a lot of potential in skilled hands, “stop whining” threads usually do more harm than good.

If you are rank 36 in pvp, 50 FotM, and have also apparently done a lot of WvW and leveled several other professions, you probably have at least 600 hours of experience (maybe twice that). That puts you in a great position to give helpful advice to people leveling an engineer or struggling to put together a good tournament build. The other engineers you’re beating in hotjoin have literally 3-5% of your experience. Literally. Some probably less. Of course they’re not as good as you.

Edit: the trait you are referencing is actually “kit refinement.” Also, the bomb from switching kits does not hit unless you’re playing without forceful explosives.

thank you very much

and yes i have put a lot of time into my engi, its the most rewarding class to play i believe and fun! not to mention powerful, i fracttal a lot.. and can openly say i kill much faster that berserker warriors.. and on sPvP i have screen shots of people goin on /m saying that im a hacker lol Engi power!!

:) just cause its funny

Good day,

Even at the risk of appearing obnoxious, I decided to comment as follows: Your rank and FoTM level mean nothing to a struggling engineer because you offer precious little practical advice, and more random cantrips. That’s exactly the problem with people who don’t teach the Engineer Way of Thinking, but go with something like 100nades and decide that everyone else is bad because they are having problems.

The Engineer needs to know their skills, and traits by heart and how to combine them to achieve a desired result. It has been discussed to death on these forums that Engineers need to specialize highly to be effective. Only experience or a very experienced tutor can remedy this, because now we bump to the primary problem up and coming Engineers have:

They are extremely dependant on gear (and its stats and runes), which with the specialization issue bloats the disparity between hitting like a noodle, and hitting really hard and soloing champions. If one furthermore experiments with the Engineer damage in sPvP and goes back to PvE and tries to do something with a mix and match of masterwork and rare gear, it’s not hard to understand Engineer players who go: “What on earth? I’m doing like no damage, this isn’t fun.”

Furthermore, sweeping statements concerning pistols and condition damage hint towards a minor amount of axle grease between the ears. You won’t motivate anyone to play by making a thread about how everyone is doing it wrong instead of offering advice.

Not a single time was it mentioned that the #1 important thing as an Engineer is to adapt to the task at hand, and more importantly your team. This can be a particular obstacle to less savvy players because of the time investment, knowledge about mechanics and the requirements of having several gear and trait sets. I don’t mean to be a kitten but if you attempt – say – double pistols when your role is not clearly defined as being the bleed/burn/poison bot, then you need to be thwacked firmly on the noggin’. (Even then, Grenade or Bomb kit has its advantages over double pistols, and these differences are the ones you should be teaching; where they are usable and where less preferred.)

I don’t really know what people like you want, but you get no points from me for sweeping statements and running 100nades.

On an unrelated note, I am always up for discussing builds, traits and uses. Hit me with a mail or a tell in game if you’re interested in Engineers and reading this.

Thank you.

Yes, the problem with the Engineer is indeed the player base. We either have clueless players or good players who lord it over the rest, the latter offering only vague advice hidden behind thick veils of condescension.

You can argue about this all day but in the end, no class should require you pore over builds and stats for ages just to be on par with other the classes in the frigging game. Yes, Engineers can do a good job at whatever they specialize in but chances are some other class can do it equally well with less effort.

Oakwind.6187:

Good day,

Even at the risk of appearing obnoxious, I decided to comment as follows: Your rank and FoTM level mean nothing to a struggling engineer because you offer precious little practical advice, and more random cantrips. That’s exactly the problem with people who don’t teach the Engineer Way of Thinking, but go with something like 100nades and decide that everyone else is bad because they are having problems.

The Engineer needs to know their skills, and traits by heart and how to combine them to achieve a desired result. It has been discussed to death on these forums that Engineers need to specialize highly to be effective. Only experience or a very experienced tutor can remedy this, because now we bump to the primary problem up and coming Engineers have:

They are extremely dependant on gear (and its stats and runes), which with the specialization issue bloats the disparity between hitting like a noodle, and hitting really hard and soloing champions. If one furthermore experiments with the Engineer damage in sPvP and goes back to PvE and tries to do something with a mix and match of masterwork and rare gear, it’s not hard to understand Engineer players who go: “What on earth? I’m doing like no damage, this isn’t fun.”

Furthermore, sweeping statements concerning pistols and condition damage hint towards a minor amount of axle grease between the ears. You won’t motivate anyone to play by making a thread about how everyone is doing it wrong instead of offering advice.

Not a single time was it mentioned that the #1 important thing as an Engineer is to adapt to the task at hand, and more importantly your team. This can be a particular obstacle to less savvy players because of the time investment, knowledge about mechanics and the requirements of having several gear and trait sets. I don’t mean to be a kitten but if you attempt – say – double pistols when your role is not clearly defined as being the bleed/burn/poison bot, then you need to be thwacked firmly on the noggin’. (Even then, Grenade or Bomb kit has its advantages over double pistols, and these differences are the ones you should be teaching; where they are usable and where less preferred.)

I don’t really know what people like you want, but you get no points from me for sweeping statements and running 100nades.

On an unrelated note, I am always up for discussing builds, traits and uses. Hit me with a mail or a tell in game if you’re interested in Engineers and reading this.

Thank you.

Just showing that engineers can go far to everyone who still has the mentality that engineers cannot do dungeons because they are useless.. well, we’re really not stop whining and learn to play the class you love.

Burst have a 30 sec cool down, i always have lots of mini combos that can be used for every situation, and besides, anyone can make 100Nades build, it’s the highest burst currently on engi, why are people not playing it, cause even this takes some skill

besides, i run condition builds, but instead of pistol i still abuse the control from rifle: example;

Run Rifle with Sigil of Geomancer, Bomb kit, Tool kit, and FT….Simply immobalize > drop confusion bomb > ply bar > switch to flame thrower > blunderbuss.. nd they die

contently more complicated than pressing just #2 but.. takes 2 secs to pull off, and you’ve applied 8 stacks of confusion 10+ bleeds + burning and all in AoE, while doing a large amount of direct damage. it scares people to dead and melts mobs on PvE.

Well it’s always easy to blame the player, but did you ever thought about the fact that we still got some broken traits, broken kits, broken turrets (don’t tell me they are good. Ok yes they have some value in sPvP, but are totally worthless in dungeons and WvW.), broken gadgets absolutely not being up to par with kits. Why would I use rocketboots if it I snare myself with it for 4 seconds and has a CD of a minute!

OH! Wait perhaps it’s the other playerbase fault I get kicked out of parties for dungeon runs because I’m an engineer.

I am sure, the real problem is NOT the player. It sometimes boggles my mind that I myself like an engineer more than a guardian. We need to put in a kittenload of effort just to get near the level of a well played guardian, who doesn’t have to respec for a different weapon set, while on my engineer I have to respec to get a kit being effective!

google.3709:

Oakwind.6187:

Good day,

Even at the risk of appearing obnoxious, I decided to comment as follows: Your rank and FoTM level mean nothing to a struggling engineer because you offer precious little practical advice, and more random cantrips. That’s exactly the problem with people who don’t teach the Engineer Way of Thinking, but go with something like 100nades and decide that everyone else is bad because they are having problems.

The Engineer needs to know their skills, and traits by heart and how to combine them to achieve a desired result. It has been discussed to death on these forums that Engineers need to specialize highly to be effective. Only experience or a very experienced tutor can remedy this, because now we bump to the primary problem up and coming Engineers have:

They are extremely dependant on gear (and its stats and runes), which with the specialization issue bloats the disparity between hitting like a noodle, and hitting really hard and soloing champions. If one furthermore experiments with the Engineer damage in sPvP and goes back to PvE and tries to do something with a mix and match of masterwork and rare gear, it’s not hard to understand Engineer players who go: “What on earth? I’m doing like no damage, this isn’t fun.”

Furthermore, sweeping statements concerning pistols and condition damage hint towards a minor amount of axle grease between the ears. You won’t motivate anyone to play by making a thread about how everyone is doing it wrong instead of offering advice.

Not a single time was it mentioned that the #1 important thing as an Engineer is to adapt to the task at hand, and more importantly your team. This can be a particular obstacle to less savvy players because of the time investment, knowledge about mechanics and the requirements of having several gear and trait sets. I don’t mean to be a kitten but if you attempt – say – double pistols when your role is not clearly defined as being the bleed/burn/poison bot, then you need to be thwacked firmly on the noggin’. (Even then, Grenade or Bomb kit has its advantages over double pistols, and these differences are the ones you should be teaching; where they are usable and where less preferred.)

I don’t really know what people like you want, but you get no points from me for sweeping statements and running 100nades.

On an unrelated note, I am always up for discussing builds, traits and uses. Hit me with a mail or a tell in game if you’re interested in Engineers and reading this.

Thank you.

Just showing that engineers can go far to everyone who still has the mentality that engineers cannot do dungeons because they are useless.. well, we’re really not stop whining and learn to play the class you love.

Burst have a 30 sec cool down, i always have lots of mini combos that can be used for every situation, and besides, anyone can make 100Nades build, it’s the highest burst currently on engi, why are people not playing it, cause even this takes some skill

besides, i run condition builds, but instead of pistol i still abuse the control from rifle: example;

Run Rifle with Sigil of Geomancer, Bomb kit, Tool kit, and FT….Simply immobalize > drop confusion bomb > ply bar > switch to flame thrower > blunderbuss.. nd they die

contently more complicated than pressing just #2 but.. takes 2 secs to pull off, and you’ve applied 8 stacks of confusion 10+ bleeds + burning and all in AoE, while doing a large amount of direct damage. it scares people to dead and melts mobs on PvE.

Another easy thing, just say everyone who dissagrees with you should ‘learn to play there class’. I know how to play my class. I know we aren’t useless in dungeons. I know we don’t suck in PvP or WvW. The problem is that other proffesions can do everything better, except for CC maybe, and that kitten is kind of useless in dungeons..

Arimahn.3568:

You can argue about this all day but in the end, no class should require you pore over builds and stats for ages just to be on par with other the classes in the frigging game. Yes, Engineers can do a good job at whatever they specialize in but chances are some other class can do it equally well with less effort.

this is the play style i think anet intended for engineer and i’m glad, it’s unique and its fun, if you’re looking for simple or the less effort guardian would be a better fit, their skills are beautiful, traits just too perf but they are boring.. and people who play them lack the skill development engi/mesmer have, you rarely see a guardian and be like wow he’s really good ;D

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

google.3709:

Oakwind.6187:

Good day,

Even at the risk of appearing obnoxious, I decided to comment as follows: Your rank and FoTM level mean nothing to a struggling engineer because you offer precious little practical advice, and more random cantrips. That’s exactly the problem with people who don’t teach the Engineer Way of Thinking, but go with something like 100nades and decide that everyone else is bad because they are having problems.

The Engineer needs to know their skills, and traits by heart and how to combine them to achieve a desired result. It has been discussed to death on these forums that Engineers need to specialize highly to be effective. Only experience or a very experienced tutor can remedy this, because now we bump to the primary problem up and coming Engineers have:

They are extremely dependant on gear (and its stats and runes), which with the specialization issue bloats the disparity between hitting like a noodle, and hitting really hard and soloing champions. If one furthermore experiments with the Engineer damage in sPvP and goes back to PvE and tries to do something with a mix and match of masterwork and rare gear, it’s not hard to understand Engineer players who go: “What on earth? I’m doing like no damage, this isn’t fun.”

Furthermore, sweeping statements concerning pistols and condition damage hint towards a minor amount of axle grease between the ears. You won’t motivate anyone to play by making a thread about how everyone is doing it wrong instead of offering advice.

Not a single time was it mentioned that the #1 important thing as an Engineer is to adapt to the task at hand, and more importantly your team. This can be a particular obstacle to less savvy players because of the time investment, knowledge about mechanics and the requirements of having several gear and trait sets. I don’t mean to be a kitten but if you attempt – say – double pistols when your role is not clearly defined as being the bleed/burn/poison bot, then you need to be thwacked firmly on the noggin’. (Even then, Grenade or Bomb kit has its advantages over double pistols, and these differences are the ones you should be teaching; where they are usable and where less preferred.)

I don’t really know what people like you want, but you get no points from me for sweeping statements and running 100nades.

On an unrelated note, I am always up for discussing builds, traits and uses. Hit me with a mail or a tell in game if you’re interested in Engineers and reading this.

Thank you.

Just showing that engineers can go far to everyone who still has the mentality that engineers cannot do dungeons because they are useless.. well, we’re really not stop whining and learn to play the class you love.

Burst have a 30 sec cool down, i always have lots of mini combos that can be used for every situation, and besides, anyone can make 100Nades build, it’s the highest burst currently on engi, why are people not playing it, cause even this takes some skill

besides, i run condition builds, but instead of pistol i still abuse the control from rifle: example;

Run Rifle with Sigil of Geomancer, Bomb kit, Tool kit, and FT….Simply immobalize > drop confusion bomb > ply bar > switch to flame thrower > blunderbuss.. nd they die

contently more complicated than pressing just #2 but.. takes 2 secs to pull off, and you’ve applied 8 stacks of confusion 10+ bleeds + burning and all in AoE, while doing a large amount of direct damage. it scares people to dead and melts mobs on PvE.

Another easy thing, just say everyone who dissagrees with you should ‘learn to play there class’. I know how to play my class. I know we aren’t useless in dungeons. I know we don’t suck in PvP or WvW. The problem is that other proffesions can do everything better, except for CC maybe, and that kitten is kind of useless in dungeons..

hehe :P it’s just sad cause we have such a great class and everyone takes it for granted, i like being the underdog cause you can always surprise people, but it’s not fun when the same people playing engineer are the ones giving it a bad rep, saying that they are fun but hey!! they are useless and no one wants them lol smh

google.3709:

Arimahn.3568:

You can argue about this all day but in the end, no class should require you pore over builds and stats for ages just to be on par with other the classes in the frigging game. Yes, Engineers can do a good job at whatever they specialize in but chances are some other class can do it equally well with less effort.

this is the play style i think anet intended for engineer and i’m glad, it’s unique and its fun, if you’re looking for simple or the less effort guardian would be a better fit, their skills are beautiful, traits just too perf but they are boring.. and people who play them lack the skill development engi/mesmer have, you rarely see a guardian and be like wow he’s really good ;D

What are you even babbling about. Hyperspecialization just so you can be almost as useful as a warrior or mesmer is not good design.

google.3709:

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

google.3709:

Oakwind.6187:

Good day,

Even at the risk of appearing obnoxious, I decided to comment as follows: Your rank and FoTM level mean nothing to a struggling engineer because you offer precious little practical advice, and more random cantrips. That’s exactly the problem with people who don’t teach the Engineer Way of Thinking, but go with something like 100nades and decide that everyone else is bad because they are having problems.

The Engineer needs to know their skills, and traits by heart and how to combine them to achieve a desired result. It has been discussed to death on these forums that Engineers need to specialize highly to be effective. Only experience or a very experienced tutor can remedy this, because now we bump to the primary problem up and coming Engineers have:

They are extremely dependant on gear (and its stats and runes), which with the specialization issue bloats the disparity between hitting like a noodle, and hitting really hard and soloing champions. If one furthermore experiments with the Engineer damage in sPvP and goes back to PvE and tries to do something with a mix and match of masterwork and rare gear, it’s not hard to understand Engineer players who go: “What on earth? I’m doing like no damage, this isn’t fun.”

Furthermore, sweeping statements concerning pistols and condition damage hint towards a minor amount of axle grease between the ears. You won’t motivate anyone to play by making a thread about how everyone is doing it wrong instead of offering advice.

Not a single time was it mentioned that the #1 important thing as an Engineer is to adapt to the task at hand, and more importantly your team. This can be a particular obstacle to less savvy players because of the time investment, knowledge about mechanics and the requirements of having several gear and trait sets. I don’t mean to be a kitten but if you attempt – say – double pistols when your role is not clearly defined as being the bleed/burn/poison bot, then you need to be thwacked firmly on the noggin’. (Even then, Grenade or Bomb kit has its advantages over double pistols, and these differences are the ones you should be teaching; where they are usable and where less preferred.)

I don’t really know what people like you want, but you get no points from me for sweeping statements and running 100nades.

On an unrelated note, I am always up for discussing builds, traits and uses. Hit me with a mail or a tell in game if you’re interested in Engineers and reading this.

Thank you.

Just showing that engineers can go far to everyone who still has the mentality that engineers cannot do dungeons because they are useless.. well, we’re really not stop whining and learn to play the class you love.

Burst have a 30 sec cool down, i always have lots of mini combos that can be used for every situation, and besides, anyone can make 100Nades build, it’s the highest burst currently on engi, why are people not playing it, cause even this takes some skill

besides, i run condition builds, but instead of pistol i still abuse the control from rifle: example;

Run Rifle with Sigil of Geomancer, Bomb kit, Tool kit, and FT….Simply immobalize > drop confusion bomb > ply bar > switch to flame thrower > blunderbuss.. nd they die

contently more complicated than pressing just #2 but.. takes 2 secs to pull off, and you’ve applied 8 stacks of confusion 10+ bleeds + burning and all in AoE, while doing a large amount of direct damage. it scares people to dead and melts mobs on PvE.

Another easy thing, just say everyone who dissagrees with you should ‘learn to play there class’. I know how to play my class. I know we aren’t useless in dungeons. I know we don’t suck in PvP or WvW. The problem is that other proffesions can do everything better, except for CC maybe, and that kitten is kind of useless in dungeons..

hehe :P it’s just sad cause we have such a great class and everyone takes it for granted, i like being the underdog cause you can always surprise people, but it’s not fun when the same people playing engineer are the ones giving it a bad rep, saying that they are fun but hey!! they are useless and no one wants them lol smh

Yes we have a really great class, but there is a reason people take it for granted, because usually it’s true. I guess about 90% of the engineer players are bad (this is pure speculation!). So when they come across an engineer, they have a huge chance of inviting a so-called “noob” into their party.

And yes I like to be the underdog (asin: fights back allthough he only has a loaf of bread to slap people with!) :p that’s why I still play engineer!

aydenunited.5729:

The short version: Engineers can be just as good as any other profession overall, but be ready for the very disproportionately high skill level required to achieve the same level results other professions can get much more easily.

Really? Engineer can be just as good of a healer/cond removal as a guardian? I don’t think so. Can engineer spam AoE retal? Nope. Can you be as mobile as an ele or a thief? Nope. Can you be as good of a duellist as a mesmer? Nope. Can engineer remove boons as well as a mesmer can or a necro can? Nope.
So stop with this constant “Engineers can achieve everything other classes can” and “engineers just require more skill” bullkitten. This constant barrage of unbelievably blatant lying bullkitten that is constantly being churned around this forum. Just because ANet said this profession was jack of all trades, it doesn’t make it so. What do they know? They are the ones that came up with this design after all. See the design of this profession? This is the best ANet designers can do. Let’s wait until they rework it into a normal class, like they did with the Dervish in GW1. Only took them 5 years to correct the fundamental design mistakes of the class. There is a versatile profession in this game that can do a lot of roles well in one build and a lot of roles superbly as separate builds. It’s called the Elementalist profession.

I kindly ask to take the following with a pinch of salt: I would not agree with Dervish being “fixed”. It simply got easily abusable builds that made it look strong. In addition, the Paragon profession is still silently weeping in the closet. How many years was it since release again?

The biggest problem with engineers… is the developers inability to polish the profession

try an Eng with following runes
2*altruism + 2*fire+2*Hoelbrack
Explosive X & Sigil of Battle.

The instant swap Med Kit-Grenade (Or Ft or Bomb) let you maintain 18 stacks of might
==> Damage sucks no more

Oakwind.6187:

I kindly ask to take the following with a pinch of salt: I would not agree with Dervish being “fixed”. It simply got easily abusable builds that made it look strong. In addition, the Paragon profession is still silently weeping in the closet. How many years was it since release again?

By fixed I mean they corrected the super awkward class mechanic: putting up short recharge, medium duration enchantments all the time then tearing them down with special attack skills. With 0.75 sec cast time + aftercast that meant your autoattack swings got canceled and you got your kitten kited. The tear down skills removed powerful monk enchants more often than not. I saw this as a big mistake at Nightfall release and so I rolled Paragon. Well 5 years later, dervish got fixed and paragon was nerfed into uselessness outside pve (and it’s useful in pve because of one PvE only skill).

ManCaptain.3154:

Oakwind.6187:

I kindly ask to take the following with a pinch of salt: I would not agree with Dervish being “fixed”. It simply got easily abusable builds that made it look strong. In addition, the Paragon profession is still silently weeping in the closet. How many years was it since release again?

By fixed I mean they corrected the super awkward class mechanic: putting up short recharge, medium duration enchantments all the time then tearing them down with special attack skills. With 0.75 sec cast time + aftercast that meant your autoattack swings got canceled and you got your kitten kited. The tear down skills removed powerful monk enchants more often than not. I saw this as a big mistake at Nightfall release and so I rolled Paragon. Well 5 years later, dervish got fixed and paragon was nerfed into uselessness outside pve (and it’s useful in pve because of one PvE only skill).

Fair dues. I never played Dervish personally outside HA and AB so I don’t know that much. Imbagon on the other hand was thoroughly unattractive to me.

The engineer is as lot of fun, but when you look at other classes like the warrior, guardian, and mesmer you can see that the Engineer isn’t bad, but rather unfinished. Another problem is that we are left playing the piano compared to the other classes on key presses……and I’m talking about the above classes, not thief spamming #2 repeatedly.

Maybe change self-KB in several attacks to a dodge, just like how Ele updraft works?

Well they won’t change anything. It’s like paragon in gw 1

The biggest problem with Engineers is people saying it’s a L2P issue in order to wrap both their hands around their own ego and stroke it furiously.

People who say L2P need to actually L2A Learn to Analyse.

Engineer is a great deal less polished than many of the classes and has genuine issues in many areas.

It’s much more complex then either learn to play or learn to analyze. I don’t think the right answer is learn to play, because we have tons of issues that need to addressed certainly. It’s not learn to analyze though either, because every other class has a bunch of their own issues and each of those classes would also tell you they are the most unpolished. Not to mention, with a select few builds and a lot more micromanagement then other classes we can be right up there with the best in terms of competitiveness situationally.

Basically, you are all arguing extremes. We are not fine by any means, but we aren’t broken either. Now I’m not a dev for GW2 or anything, but when I see exaggeration it makes the discussion much less credible in my eyes. Discussing what we can do with what we have though, that is valuable stuff and it’s disappointing any discussion on what we can do ends up turning into a bunch of exaggerated despair.

It’s definitely harder than other professions. After 300ish hours on my engy, I started a Mesmer and he’s sooo easy mode comparatively.

The biggest problem on engineers is that they´re definitely harder to play than any other profession. That´s why I can´t stop playing my engineer because I´ll fall asleep playing my guardian and mesmer.

rizzo.1079:

It’s definitely harder than other professions. After 300ish hours on my engy, I started a Mesmer and he’s sooo easy mode comparatively.

This is anecdotal evidence at best though. My personal experience is from Warrior, to Mesmer, to Engineer. Everytime I changed (primary) professions I thought it was easy mode comparatively. Specifically in this case, solo PvE and sPvP I to me are much easier with my Engi then with my Mesmer which were the things I was doing at the time.

biggest problem with engineer are the bugs that make the class unplayable and the terrible terrible terrible skills and class mechanic

to quote myself from another thread

also i`d like to see them fix the flamethrower especially the “2” ability which goes straight into the ground doing nothing 100%of the time reliably after using the flamethrower knockback (and does that as well on numerous other occasions)

i`d also like to see them fix all the positioning/character model gets teleported around randomly bugs which are associated to the rifle – especially jump shot and overcharged shot and make rifle barely useable in competitive play

is it going to happen?
no

TL;DR
YOU ARE NOT A BEAUTIFUL AND UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE

Dunno if the OP is just trolling but ever heard of the law of parsimony? It’s much more complex and difficult to assume and prove that engineers are suffering from a really bad player based in comparison to ALL OTHER CLASSES than having a class that is relatively underpowered compared to others (or at least much more difficult to use and requires specialization of traits).

It’s like having a blackout in your home and you’re assuming that the cause was something like an earthquake caused some damage tot he power lines rather than a fuse breaking.

These L2P threads really need to stop making sweeping generalizations about the player base.

Yujin.1785:

Dunno if the OP is just trolling but ever heard of the law of parsimony? It’s much more complex and difficult to assume and prove that engineers are suffering from a really bad player based in comparison to ALL OTHER CLASSES than having a class that is relatively underpowered compared to others (or at least much more difficult to use and requires specialization of traits).

It’s like having a blackout in your home and you’re assuming that the cause was something like an earthquake caused some damage tot he power lines rather than a fuse breaking.

These L2P threads really need to stop making sweeping generalizations about the player base.

Thank you!

I’m so tired of the tired argument that X class is only strong because people can’t figure them out, and Y class is only weak because people can’t figure them out. “L2P!”

It just makes no sense at all. There is no reason to believe a statistically significant amount of ‘skilled’ players will choose one particular class over another.

I see the problem is that Engineer doesn’t really have the “introductory” low-skill cap, high reward spec some of the other classes enjoy. The diversity that is the hallmark of the Engineer may also be what keeps that from ever happening.

google.3709:

aydenunited.5729:

The short version: Engineers can be just as good as any other profession overall, but be ready for the very disproportionately high skill level required to achieve the same level results other professions can get much more easily.

not at all each profession is diff, engi is more complicated and hard to get a grasp around but also is more fun and rewarding than most classes, and just because they r hard doesnt make them bad, just means you can become that much better

Difference of opinion. I don’t feel like Engineers are the funnest class at all. Their awkward playstyle and bad utility skills prevent me from liking them as much as other professions.

I also think their traits are an issue. I tried many other builds besides bombs and grenades and it seemed like it was impossible to make an effective one.

Ayestes.1273:

It’s much more complex then either learn to play or learn to analyze. I don’t think the right answer is learn to play, because we have tons of issues that need to addressed certainly. It’s not learn to analyze though either, because every other class has a bunch of their own issues and each of those classes would also tell you they are the most unpolished. Not to mention, with a select few builds and a lot more micromanagement then other classes we can be right up there with the best in terms of competitiveness situationally.

Basically, you are all arguing extremes. We are not fine by any means, but we aren’t broken either. Now I’m not a dev for GW2 or anything, but when I see exaggeration it makes the discussion much less credible in my eyes. Discussing what we can do with what we have though, that is valuable stuff and it’s disappointing any discussion on what we can do ends up turning into a bunch of exaggerated despair.

Take your reasonable, measured posts and GTFO!! The sky is falling kitten !!

lol it’s a shame, the only way this will be resolved apparently is if the class is dumbed down to their pro level

if somebody says engi can’t suport, try kit refinement with elixir gun, med kit and runes of the monk/war you will be mind blown!

what the class needs to be better accepted are better labels, Anet need to go to every skill and add! “press this to heal”, " this skill + this skill = good" , “click this if you want to damage”,! because players are so against playing and exploring the class, you want more damage? tweak it, experiment, enjoy it

we have so many options its silly, we have flexibility that comes with a toll.. we have to learn the class, i can tell you stats, give you 20 mins to read skills and you will be as good of a warrior/guardian as someone who’s clocked 1000h!+ that won’t be happening with engi

explore, learn, did you know.. med kit can abuse runes, sigils, foods like no other class?

here is 1 to blow you away!! Try rune of Balthazar + sigil of hydromancy and switch to your med kit… go try that at the heart of the mist ( sPvP lobby).. i will assure you you will main that

another one:

Use kit refinement trait ( tools ), sigil of the geomancer, and tool kit and use #2.. wait ?? so you go into a kit, press 1 skill and you get 10+ AoE bleeds and direct damage ?? on a 10 secs cool down ? i must be lying throw a blunderbuss, 14 bleeds ( without counting bleeds from sharpshooter), kitten #8230; necro must be jealous oh… swtich to flame thrower( kit refinement creates a fire blast that AoE burns foes) and you get AoE burning.. kitten !@#%!; WHY U SO USELESS

Hammerguard.9834:

Difference of opinion. I don’t feel like Engineers are the funnest class at all. Their awkward playstyle and bad utility skills prevent me from liking them as much as other professions.

Hammerguard.9834:

I also think their traits are an issue. I tried many other builds besides bombs and grenades and it seemed like it was impossible to make an effective one.

I can agree, the biggest difficulty I initially saw with Engineer is AT FIRST everything seemed scattered in the traits and utilities. I literally sat down before one of the BWEs, pulled up a build creator, a list of traits, a list of skills, etc, and started tinkering. By doing so, at that time, literally I was juggling all the traits and skills in my mind until finally I narrowed in on the core of my grenadier build (which actually happened as I was laying in bed about to fall asleep and suddenly “OMG GRENADES!!” and next morning I pulled up the build and worked it all out. From there, I refined it, and over time, I’ve made four major changes total (I can count em, seriously). But my point is, you are right. The Engineer class is very broad and on first approach, it can be hard to find what synchronizes with what. But that’s part of what makes it unique. And with their recent change so Sigils take effect with Kits, it’s AMAZING what you can accomplish. What’s even better is I’ll run into Engineers running something else, start exchanging ideas, and start getting new ideas (how my recent change came about, which raised my Grenade Skill 1 damage to up to as much as 4000 once, often in the 2000-2400+ neighborhood).

I can see what the OP says though, there is so much depth and possibility to the class, that once you begin to understand it and see how things sync, it’s awesome. But it is so much more to understand the class through playing it and experimenting. You can’t gain a full understanding of this class through reading. (Okay, maybe you can, but that’s a TON of reading). I don’t even have a full understanding of this class, but it’s a class that encourages you to find out what works for you, and make it work really well. The fact that the Engineer is so varied and diverse results in what Mister Mustard said “the hallmark of the Engineer may also be what keeps that from ever happening.” And that likely, is a good part of it.

Now granted, I’m a Grenadier. But I’ve developed it so it suites my playstyle, and I benefit greatly from using Med Kit, Grenade Kit, and my other Utilities and Weapons. They all sync to fit my playstyle, and when I’m kicking out 2400-4000 per attack on average, and being able to dodge and survive, AND support the team via several offensive and defensive measures, I know I’m doing something right.

Another one: Try enhance performance ( explosives X) + Sigil of battle + 2 Rune of Altruism and wait… you get 9 stacks of might just by pressing your heal ???? and it doesnt even use your heal ? LOL wtf!!.. so as an engi you can keep 18 stacks of might just by using your heal and normal traits :O!!!? wow that’s impressive i would say try that with FT for Exlixir build.. perma 25 might ? i bet warriors r jelly

google.3709:

Another one: Try enhance performance ( explosives X) + Sigil of battle + 2 Rune of Altruism and wait… you get 9 stacks of might just by pressing your heal ???? and it doesnt even use your heal ? LOL wtf!!.. so as an engi you can keep 18 stacks of might just by using your heal? wow that’s impressive i would say try that with FT for Exlixir build.. perma 25 might ? i bet warriors r jelly

That’s one of the nice combos :p Wouldn’t sacrifice for Enhance Performance in my build though haha

If you wanted to max your endurance, I’m thinking 6 x Rune of the Adventurer + Superior Sigil of Energy would give you 100% Endurance when using a Heal Skill I think :p

google.3709:

we have so many options its silly, we have flexibility that comes with a toll..

Engy has options when you are deciding what to build, however the issue is that once you are actually locked into and playing that build, you are no more versatile than builds for many other classes and yet you are still paying the tax of low base damage / no weapon swap.

If engi actually lived up to the alleged design premise, in a single build it would be able to have:

- break stuns
- have decent condi removal
- CC
- shield / invulnerability
- heals
- some AOE / some CC
- swiftness (for a class with no gap closers, other than the useless jump shot) some mobility is important.

and to have mulitiple builds capable of this, in exchange for the lower base damage / no weapon swap, yet the reality is most engi builds are a million miles away, some have virtually no condi removal (100nades), many have nearly zero utlity (my engi is very jealous of my mesmer), even things like invulnerability are feeble compared to many other classes, look at the cooldown for elxir S, then compare than to 2 secs every 8 seconds on a mesmer…

Yet guess what, there is a class that does have all I described, an ele, that is what a class that is actually versatile, that is a jack-of-all-trades, engy simply does not fufil that, yet still pays a tax in regard to damage / no weapon swap.

Sylosi.6503:

If engi actually lived up to the alleged design premise, in a single build it would be able to have:
- break stuns
- have decent condi removal
- CC
- shield / invulnerability
- heals
- some AOE / some CC
- swiftness (for a class with no gap closers, other than the useless jump shot) some mobility is important.

- break stuns —- Yes
- have decent condi removal —- Only Antidote, bit lacking there, but that’s why I stay further back and dodge
- CC —- Yes, cripples, immob, chill
- shield / invulnerability —- Yes
- heals —- Yes, Med Kit, Food Buffs
- some AOE / some CC —- Yes
- swiftness —- Yes

Also bringing in some other boons that help.

I think I did pretty good, just saying. Damage is also 2000+ basic attack. Seriously not trying to prove you wrong or pick a fight, just saying it’s possible. BTW, I’m talkin PvE here, not PvP.

Sylosi.6503:

google.3709:

we have so many options its silly, we have flexibility that comes with a toll..

Engy has options when you are deciding what to build, however the issue is that once you are actually locked into and playing that build, you are no more versatile than builds for many other classes and yet you are still paying the tax of low base damage / no weapon swap.

If engi actually lived up to the alleged design premise, in a single build it would be able to have:

- break stuns
- have decent condi removal
- CC
- shield / invulnerability
- heals
- some AOE / some CC
- swiftness (for a class with no gap closers, other than the useless jump shot) some mobility is important.

and to have mulitiple builds capable of this, in exhange for the lower base damage / no weapon swap, yet the reality is most engi builds are a million miles away, some have virtually no condi removal (100nades), many have zero utlity (my engi is very jealous of my mesmer), even things like invulnerability are feeble compared to many other classes, look at the cooldown for elxir S, then compare than to 2 secs every 8 seconds on a mesmer…

Yet guess what, there is a class that does have all I described, an ele, that is what a class that is actually versatile, that is a jack-of-all-trades, engy simply does not fufil that, yet still pays a tax in regard to damage / no weapon swap.

Rifle, med kit, tool kit, elixir gun and kit refinament

you get a strong heal on a 20cd ( 14 if traited ), 5 sources of small heals with short CD, 3 condition removal, blocks, lots of CC, and AoE, a push, a pull, leap ;D!

not including the effects from runes/sigils you choose or any other traits :P!! everything on under 20sec CD lol

btw: have you heard of speedy kits? :P we have perma swiffness (33%) which is better than 25% perma most classes have.. mobility, check ;D

keep it coming :P

Alkron.1345:

I think I did pretty good, just saying. Damage is also 2000+ basic attack. Seriously not trying to prove you wrong or pick a fight, just saying it’s possible. BTW, I’m talkin PvE here, not PvP.

Antidote != decent condition removal, that is why I specified ‘decent’, I see a lot of builds with just antidote has the condi removal, that is not my idea of jack of all trades, and wihtout the ‘decent condi removal’ my mesmer can fill the list I gave.

Sylosi.6503:

Alkron.1345:

I think I did pretty good, just saying. Damage is also 2000+ basic attack. Seriously not trying to prove you wrong or pick a fight, just saying it’s possible. BTW, I’m talkin PvE here, not PvP.

Antidote != decent condition removal, that is why I specified ‘decent’, I see a lot of builds with just antidote has the condi removal, that is not my idea of jack of all trades, and wihtout the ‘decent condi removal’ my mesmer can fill the list I gave.

I accept your point entirely haha, but that’s why I acknowledged it as lacking as well However, the rest of my build can compensate for that lacking. And often, with team play, this further can cover what I’ve left exposed. But when I’m playing at up to a 1650 range, what’s going to put conditions on me that far (Aside from bosses, which can often be dodged haha)? Between being able to dodge often and stay nimble, heal out the damage, and keep myself going, it help’s alleviate that pressure. (I will admit, can’t handle an immob at all, that’s why I stay on the move and out of range)

If I chose to, something such as a Bowl of Saffron-scented Poultry Soup would completely alleviate that Condition Problem though (Currently I just throw in whatever food I’ve got on me)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Saffron-scented_Poultry_Soup

Mister Mustard.7203:

Yujin.1785:

Dunno if the OP is just trolling but ever heard of the law of parsimony? It’s much more complex and difficult to assume and prove that engineers are suffering from a really bad player based in comparison to ALL OTHER CLASSES than having a class that is relatively underpowered compared to others (or at least much more difficult to use and requires specialization of traits).

It’s like having a blackout in your home and you’re assuming that the cause was something like an earthquake caused some damage tot he power lines rather than a fuse breaking.

These L2P threads really need to stop making sweeping generalizations about the player base.

Thank you!

I’m so tired of the tired argument that X class is only strong because people can’t figure them out, and Y class is only weak because people can’t figure them out. “L2P!”

It just makes no sense at all. There is no reason to believe a statistically significant amount of ‘skilled’ players will choose one particular class over another.

I see the problem is that Engineer doesn’t really have the “introductory” low-skill cap, high reward spec some of the other classes enjoy. The diversity that is the hallmark of the Engineer may also be what keeps that from ever happening.

Oh yes, BTW I really do think the OP is lying or trolling about his claim to his rank to give credence to his post. Mind you that the player base actually reaching in the 40s in FoTM is really small (OP claims to have reached 50 and sPvP 36). No one knows him (I tried asking around). Second his account arenanet medals are only 3550, much less than mine. I highly doubt anyone who claims to be a fractal 50 and dolyak rank has merely that many arenanet medals considering I have even more:

Yujin.1785:

Oh yes, BTW I really do think the OP is lying or trolling. Mind you that the player base actually reaching in the 40s in FoTM is really small (OP claims to have reached 50 and sPvP 36). No one knows him (I tried asking around). Second his account arenanet medals are only 3550, much less than mine. I highly doubt anyone who claims to be a fractal 50 and dolyak rank has merely that many arenanet medals considering I have even more:

I’m Frac 43, do you know me? That’s really a poor argument to go after the OP, let alone an Ad hominem. Moreso, often people will have their own statics for running higher fractals.

And it’s not that hard, if you don’t actively pursue account medals, tons of people I play with have much less than me. I, however, pursued every jumping puzzle, World Completion, and more. I can’t speak to PvP achievement points however. But it all depends what you pursue.

I’d say the OP could be trolling, if he actually wasn’t bringing up adequate points about the class and exhibiting some form of knowledge.