Guild Wars 2

Just an idea of mine. How about on September 17th, the next patch day, we try to organize an engineer sit-in in Lion’s Arch. I was thinking around the Mystic Forge. We all guest into the same few servers, equip or favorite (or least favorite) kit and hang out, spamming our displeasure in map chat, perhaps singing our little protest songs, and generally making ourselves known.

Arena Net has made a habit of ignoring these issues for far too long, giving us at most two half-hearted and uncommitted responses over the last year, so let’s do something they can’t just sweep into some sub-forum and wish away. Screen shots and youtube videos encouraged, obviously. I, for one, and tired of this crap, so I say we start taking steps to force them to acknowledge this issue on a wider scale. Comment below to RSVP or offer any suggestions you may have. Clearly we need to pick a server for each region ahead of time, so suggestions for that would be helpful. Obviously we need a server that isn’t always full so we can actually all get in.

My Guardian girlfriend is going to train up her Engineer for this. I’ll be there, too.

We have a protest song?

I will see you on the 17th!!!!!

Enough is enough! Engineers are already made weaker than other classes due to large amounts of variability and now our kits are only exotic stats while others get ascended! Our kits are hideous and weak now, we dont get legendary goodness and are generally openly ignored because we represent a smaller part of professions! Which is becoming more and more apparent as they openly say they will only work on human warriors because they are the most played…please…this is just racism and profession discrimination and sends the wrong message to our youth! Somebody think of the children!!!

I’d be up for it, if simple logistics/organising is being taken care of. Have to think about overflow issues, timezones, possible alternate locations (Mystic forge is always crowded, I dont think any “protest” would be noticed there)…

Overflow issues: Handled easily enough; if you’re in an overflow, either start a secondary rally, or try another server. People will be in the overflow if we get enough people in on it, so we might as well explain the issue to them.

Timezones: Perhaps arrange a couple separate rallies, to allow everyone interested in this to participate – or just start it, and everyone comes when they please. I know I’ll be camped out probably from when I get up to when I go to bed, and my girlfriend’s Engineer will be, too (she’ll actually be at work, but she wanted to participate so I’ll mostly just make sure she doesn’t get disconnected).

Possible alternate locations: I’m sure a pack of people with hobosacks, letting off Kit attacks to show the clipping errors, /crying, /disagreeing and /threatening in between protest songs and rally chants will be noticeable, particularly if it’s a large enough crowd to force folk into the overflow – and if we get all the Engineers who’re disappointed with hobosacks and Kit interaction with back items in on this, people will be in the overflow.
That said, yeah, it might be a good idea to consider other locations – but what other places are frequented by enough people? Perhaps Rata Sum, around the SAB?

Once we have this a bit more organized, it would probably be wise to have cryers to alert those who don’t use the forums. I’ll certainly volunteer for that on Crystal Desert.

Hey wait let’s be smart about this lets all meet up in black gates server and spam in lions arch. Most populated server demands most eyes by people in arenanet.

Neek.9531:

Hey wait let’s be smart about this lets all meet up in black gates server and spam in lions arch. Most populated server demands most eyes by people in arenanet.

Most populated server also means less space for guests. If you think Black Gate has a large enough native engineer population to get noticed then by all means go there. I think it would be wiser to flood a lower population server, and hopefully bump it up to full. That kind of sudden population spike will be a lot more noticeable than a very-high pop server becoming full for the millionth time.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Neek.9531:

Hey wait let’s be smart about this lets all meet up in black gates server and spam in lions arch. Most populated server demands most eyes by people in arenanet.

Most populated server also means less space for guests. If you think Black Gate has a large enough native engineer population to get noticed then by all means go there. I think it would be wiser to flood a lower population server, and hopefully bump it up to full. That kind of sudden population spike will be a lot more noticeable than a very-high pop server becoming full for the millionth time.

I second this – they probably aren’t going to see it with their own eyes, but a low-pop server spiking would certainly spur somebody to say something about it.

Remember, remember!
The seventeenth of November,
The Gunpowder treason and plot;
I know of no reason
Why the Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!

Tyraniel.6482:

Remember, remember!
The seventeenth of November,
The Gunpowder treason and plot;
I know of no reason
Why the Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!

You know what? If this hobosack crakitten till an issue by the time November rolls around, then every Engineer should put on their most eye-catching backpack, the Bomb or Grenade Kits, and blast the kitten out of Lion’s Arch.

Girlfriend also suggests all of us dressing in the same set of armor, preferably dark-colored, with masks, while doing it.

If either of these things A ) happen and B ) work to get the Hobosack issue fixed, I’d also like a turret rally to be considered.

Anymras.5729:

Tyraniel.6482:

Remember, remember!
The seventeenth of November,
The Gunpowder treason and plot;
I know of no reason
Why the Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!

You know what? If this hobosack crakitten till an issue by the time November rolls around, then every Engineer should put on their most eye-catching backpack, the Bomb or Grenade Kits, and blast the kitten out of Lion’s Arch.

Girlfriend also suggests all of us dressing in the same set of armor, preferably dark-colored, with masks, while doing it.

If either of these things A ) happen and B ) work to get the Hobosack issue fixed, I’d also like a turret rally to be considered.

Seconded. Also I’d suggest using the throw mine skill and its tool belt. We all gather around in the same server, scatter our mines, and right when the server resets……simultaneous detonation.

Heck, we might even crash the server. I doubt it, but that would certainly get noticed.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Anymras.5729:

Tyraniel.6482:

Remember, remember!
The seventeenth of November,
The Gunpowder treason and plot;
I know of no reason
Why the Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!

You know what? If this hobosack crakitten till an issue by the time November rolls around, then every Engineer should put on their most eye-catching backpack, the Bomb or Grenade Kits, and blast the kitten out of Lion’s Arch.

Girlfriend also suggests all of us dressing in the same set of armor, preferably dark-colored, with masks, while doing it.

If either of these things A ) happen and B ) work to get the Hobosack issue fixed, I’d also like a turret rally to be considered.

Seconded. Also I’d suggest using the throw mine skill and its tool belt. We all gather around in the same server, scatter our mines, and right when the server resets……simultaneous detonation.

Heck, we might even crash the server. I doubt it, but that would certainly get noticed.

Now that would surely be something.

I wish I could make that night, but I’ll be at work when that happens— unless you guys do this some time in the morning then I’ll be up for that!

If all else, I think I’ll just mail Anet a sack of potatoes.

We could well turn it into a monthly thing – or we could make a day of it, to accommodate for schedules.

Edit: I mentioned this to a guildmate of mine, who will also be joining the rally. He suggests that we see if we can get the discontented population of the Charr (apparently they’re kitten ed about bad armor skin jobs) in on this.
I’m inclined to think it’s a good idea – the more folk we get, the more impact it’ll have.

Edit2: Having just watched the segment of the Livestream where the devs went “Yeah, they’re a lesser-played race, so we’re not putting a lot of manpower toward fixing the issues,” I’m pretty sure asking the Charr to get in on this would be a good idea – we’re both in the same situation of having wonky looks as a result of being deprioritized on the basis of what percent of the population we are.

Kouta is reporting for rallying!

just reading this “lesser played race / class not putting manpower in fixes bs” what the hell? Don’t you think we are less played due you poo on us big time? Who wants to play (i know I do…) a class whom shouldn’t do “endgame” due no skins are showed on the character? or where your armor is clipping the hell out of, these should get THE MANPOWER…..

I was thinking that Sept 17 might not be the greatest since it falls on a week day, but it could work I suppose since different engies will log on at different times of the day and it would be still possible have a protest happening at any time during the day, it would just be unlikely to create much overflows. A weekend protest would have a greater impact. Another idea would be to flood the TP with a common white rifle (say, one you buy from the vendor in LA) for, say, 13s37c to show solidarity. The amount of these rifles on the TP would show how many people support the cause (you would only need to contribute one since the TP counts ‘by x sellers’)

It really is not a huge change, its not a big request….and the vast majority of engineers support it. It should have been done, no excuses.

I like my hobo-sacks. How can I protest the protesters?

You guys know that this kinda stuff affects other players gaming experience too? Not to mention you’d surely be banned if you somehow managed to crash the server.

I am definitely going to be there!
Hobo-sack took my Quip effect, my back piece slot, and it looks terrible!
i will try to spread the word of people who dont check forums too.
Anet you better pay attention to this.

Nice idea but

GTA V release date = September 17th

Half the devs won’t even be on to see it.

There are bigger issues with this class than the Hobo-sack.

I hope that’s not the only reason we’re protesting.

The Hobosack overriding back items and Legendaries is something that should have been changed months ago – every new release that includes back items, every overhaul of Legendary looks, and the eventual addition of more Legendaries benefits every class except for those Engineers who use Kits.

Hopefully, they’d do something like this: Have the kit check whether the Back Item in use is one with a skin (such as the quaggan backpack). If it is, then it checks whether the Show Back Item toggle is On. If so, it puts some manner of alternate-placement thing like the fannypack kit mentioned by Bill Friest. If not, the old Hobosack pops up.
Don’t want the hobosack to override your fancy back item? Turn on Show Back Item.
Happen to actually like the hobosack? Turn off Show Back Item.

The Hobosacks aren’t the only reason we’ll be protesting, though – we’ll be protesting, when you get down to it, because our problems aren’t addressed because there’s less of us than there are of the other classes…which aren’t plagued with bugs and cosmetic troubles. I don’t know about anybody else, but I’d have second thoughts about starting a character of a class with almost twenty bugs on a single category of skills, who couldn’t even see the fancy back item they earned or bought, or the Legendary they might spend six months grinding for, if they were using the only skillset so influential that people think of it as the class mechanic.
But there’s less of us than the other classes, and they’d rather focus on what there’s more of.

Actually crashing a server, while it would probably get somebody banned, would likely only get the instigators banned – myself, and Arkham Creed. Personally, if that’s what it took to make them realize that while we might not be a majority of the playerbase, we’re enough to require attention, I’d be willing to accept a ban.

I’d also like to suggest that Engineers boycott the Gem Store until they address at least the cosmetic issues. Bugs, those might have a logical reason there’s a problem, but they’ve never committed the manpower to fix the cosmetics to begin with.

sign me up. Will bring my hobosack

Will be in LA too.
Sign me in.

Anymras.5729:

Actually crashing a server, while it would probably get somebody banned, would likely only get the instigators banned – myself, and Arkham Creed. Personally, if that’s what it took to make them realize that while we might not be a majority of the playerbase, we’re enough to require attention, I’d be willing to accept a ban.

Agreed. If that’s what it takes, that’s what it takes. I’ll enjoy my time off relaxing and basking in the knowledge that Arena Net wouldn’t be able to deny the problem any longer.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Anymras.5729:

Actually crashing a server, while it would probably get somebody banned, would likely only get the instigators banned – myself, and Arkham Creed. Personally, if that’s what it took to make them realize that while we might not be a majority of the playerbase, we’re enough to require attention, I’d be willing to accept a ban.

Agreed. If that’s what it takes, that’s what it takes. I’ll enjoy my time off relaxing and basking in the knowledge that Arena Net wouldn’t be able to deny the problem any longer.

First, let’s try the rally, though. I’ll post about it on the Charr boards once we know what server we’re doing it on; both us and the Charr are being deprioritized on the basis of numbers, so I feel it’s a good plan to get both our groups together.

TheGuy.3568:

Nice idea but

GTA V release date = September 17th

Half the devs won’t even be on to see it.

This guy makes a very solid point. None of the devs will be online the 17th

Either way ill be there showing my support, they can ban me if they want

WE MARCH

GTAV’s release might draw those with the day off away, but there’s something about patches that seems to have slipped out of mind:
Hotfixes.
This will be a big patch, involving actual changes (balance, mostly, but there will be some bugs and polish to be done). As such, there is an inevitability of emergent bugs – that is to say, something will break, and they will need to hotfix something. Maybe the devs won’t be playing, but they will be working.
And, due to the inevitability of hotfixes…they will have a closer eye on the bug reports than usual, to see if there’s something wrong with their content.
As such, there will be some poor sap who has to page through bug report after bug report – who would probably notice if all Engineers in the Rally flooded the /bug command with a subject-line about how Back Items clip through Kits (because that’s actually a bug) and an actual message that explains A ) the bug, and B ) the purpose of the rally.
Each /bug takes a screenshot, and with enough reports, the onlooker will eventually take a look…only to see Lion’s Arch, positively stuffed to the gills with Engineers. We might not be spotted by the devs who would be playing, but we might get that looker talking, we might get the attention of whoever’s keeping an eye on server health…

Short version is, I don’t see a problem with GTAV’s release – because somebody will have to be working. We’ve got less chance of being spotted by the playing devs, anyway, if we’re on a low-pop server.

Looking over the servers, I notice Medium is the lowest population rating; I suggest that we try to wedge as many people into one of the Medium servers as we can, and then cram into a High server if we bring it high enough, with Very High after that. Thoughts?

Edit: Also, I’ve gone ahead and asked the Charr Legions to join the rally. With luck, they’ll provide more numbers and provide suggestions on target servers.

We should wear something like the Whisper’s armor set so we’ll look like a cult. ^^
And I really like the idea of everyone throwing mines everywhere.
I’m definitely up for this \m/

Also, can we make a song adaptation or something?
Then everybody logs in to TS. Everybody sings
Then at the end of the song
3
2
1
Detonate.

Hahah. That could be interesting. Would certainly make it easy to identify people involved.

I’m in! I main an engineer,and while I love it,and has many wonderful attributes,the cosmetic issues make it very bitter sweet for me. We shouldn’t be denied something that other classes are given. Our back pieces clip horribly,and the kit hides our weapons for 90% of the time,so what’s the point in even investing in a legendary? If we can decided on a server,I’m in! I’ll rally as many people as I can,including any members of my guild who would be interested. This is something we needed to do a long time ago,let us not pass this opportunity!

I still have my special starter kit hobo sack for special occasions like this.

What do you mean you won’t be able to see it if I have a kit active! This is an outrage why we should… ooooooohhh I see yes, I agree completely.

I personally love the hobo sacks, but would like to see them all sit at the same height. This may just be a Charr issue, but the Med Kit sits at the perfect height on your character’s back with other sacks creeping ridiculously high, some basically sitting on your shoulders.

As far as allowing a toggle or removing the sacks from the other kits (Keep them if using the original pack maybe? I do like them personally) I’ll be at the rally.

Well if we find some Engis to do this too in an EU Server, im totally in!

sounds annoying please don’t come to my server lol

I’ll do anything to get this issue fixed. As long as we get it going in EU

Alright, I’m going to go ahead and suggest some servers. I’ll be suggesting Highs and Very Highs, for visibility to the masses. There is no particular rhyme or reason beyond that for choosing these servers (mostly, they’ll be chosen because they’re easy to write and remember).

European High target: Ring of Fire
European Very High target: Aurora Glade

American High target: Anvil Rock
American Very High target: Crystal Desert (This one was chosen because it is my home server.)

Any objections to these, aside from ‘But X is my home server?’

Stand at each ramp leading down to the mystic toilet and shoot flamethrowers/elixer guns in an arch on each side so everyone that has to go down that way walks underneath them :P that’s sure to attract some attention.

Posting a link to this on Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1m5kqg/engineercharr_rally_in_lions_arch_9172013/

Count me in. I would love to be able to actually see my backpiece on my engie. :c

So what server we going to, only one I saw mention was Crystal Desert and Blackgate. I would second Crystal Desert, my home server and reddit server

I’d suggest at least Crystal Desert (American) and Aurora Glade (European), as well as Ring of Fire and Anvil Rock.

I’m definitely interested in this. My main is an engie and even though I have eight characters, he’ll always be my favorite. Which makes the problems with the class so much worse. I can’t just put him on a shelf and ignore him, I like him too much.

As well, I have a charr character. A thief. Medium armour on them is horrendous.

We need to settle on a server as fast as possible so word about it has a few days to really circulate, word of mouth could help a lot. I’d also advise posting this on as many forums as you can to get the word out, just not to the point that you aggravate people or get a spam infraction, heh.

yanchoy.9176:

We should wear something like the Whisper’s armor set so we’ll look like a cult. ^^

Not every engie is in Whispers (I’m Priory) and that’s kinda expensive. I’d suggest a cheap, low level, craftable armor. Outlaw armor or at least everyone wearing an Outlaw Mask could be good.

But more than anything, this really needs a lot more exposure.

let’s spam the livestreams they have planned, that should at least get 1 dev’s attention

So far, I’ve posted it on Reddit and in a Charr thread. I’ll post it directly into the Charr forums and in the In-Game Event board, as I think that’s about all that it would fit in – probably still get an infraction, but I’m really not too worried about those. Anybody that would be willing to speak of it in /mapchat, your aid would be greatly appreciated. The Livestream would also be a good place to talk about it; they’ll know that we’re planning something, they’ll know it’s because they’ve ignored our issues for a year, and so will everyone else who’s looking.
Just don’t be hostile to bystanders – they’re not the problem, Anet ignoring us is. Remember, this is the peaceful protest, where we just show up, sing some songs, demonstrate the issue and maybe look sad about it.
The not-so-peaceful one’s in a couple months, if they haven’t begun addressing our concerns by then.

As for armor…I would probably just go Seeker, as it’s the absolute cheapest, easiest-to-craft, most everybody-can-use-it armor Medium armor has. Even has a mask. I’d suggest we pick a color scheme, too; perhaps all Ebony (I think that’s the black-alike from the starter colors…).

I’m a little confused as to why people are suggesting High and Very High population servers, when the logic for using a low population server was explained earlier in the thread.

This is an interesting idea, though. At the very least it would be a fun outing.

How about we make a guild just for this? One for EU, for one NA. It should help with preparations.

If Anet will be doing a livestream of the patch the very same day, maybe a bunch of engineers should just follow him around spamming flamethrowers & explosions to slow his FPS? Maybe drop a lot of supply crates while were at it, raining boxes everywhere!

Imagi.4561:

I’m a little confused as to why people are suggesting High and Very High population servers, when the logic for using a low population server was explained earlier in the thread.

This is an interesting idea, though. At the very least it would be a fun outing.

While considering target servers, I noticed that the lowest population is Medium, and the only Medium-population servers are European. Nothing against Europeans, but it’ll look better if it looks like it’s on both sides of the pond. Besides, seems a trifle unfair to only inflict our rally on the Europeans.
Aside from that – High and Very High servers will have more people seeing us, and more people being forced into Overflow by an influx of Engineers, which is likely to draw some concern from the players (especially due to GTAV, and Tequatl). It also makes it easier to spread our ranks across several servers, if we start with the Very High populations and work our way down if we fill ‘em up.
If we end up having to do the Gunpowder Plot, as well, then we’ll be in servers that will draw the most attention.

A guild would be a good idea, as well. Engineers For Equal Treatment?

I think the livestream of the patch will be three days after the patch, though – but I’m sure a pack of Engineers dropping swarms of Grenades to ruin the framerate would get attention, one way or another. Certainly force some kind of response, but that might just take the form of banning the Engineers involved. I would prefer, however, to save that for if the rally is ignored – there will be other livestreams, and if we’ve already resigned ourselves to extreme measures, then we will have ample opportunity.