Guild Wars 2

… The more I feel like trying to do miracles.

23 June patch definitly broke the class. Any time I try anything, I can’t stop to feel the need to go back to old clerical bomberheal or celestial rifle but ……….. I just can’t. Because the best thing Anet found to do about our class was to definitly burry it.

This stupid patch nerfed Engineer 2 times more than it did improved any other. The very few good choices we had simply disapeared, with no replacement at all. Others got new options, we got our only choices removed from the game.

Engineers sucks, this game sucks, Anet sucks.

It’s weird you say this because I feel like we have more choice now than before. Pre-patch you ran Celestial Rifle. There was no other option that came close, though Static Discharge was fun to mess around with in solo queue.

Instead of being forced into Celestial, we now can specialize. FT/TK condi may not be a tournament-grade build, but it works very effectively in sPvP—way better than condition builds have ever worked in the past. Power builds have gotten stronger with the Tools overhaul and Rampage. And while Soldier may not dish out as much damage as Celestial did pre-patch, the recent buff to Flash Shell blinding every second vs. every two seconds, and getting 1200 range again on rifle makes it very, very good. (It’s honestly my favorite of the three.)

I’ve used all three and won plenty of matches with them. Overall I think there’s still balance issues, especially with regard to mesmer and elementalist, but you have got to be kidding me if you think we had more options before June 23. It was Celestial or bust, and there’s no way mesmers and elementalists are staying as-is for much longer.

With the BWEs coming up, you just have to be patient. They’re working on more important things, and I imagine the HoT specializations will resolve a lot of the current problems we have in this meta (lack of stability, for one).

NineLives.8725:

The very few good choices we had simply disapeared, with no replacement at all. Others got new options, we got our only choices removed from the game.

The patch has certainly had an impact upon the class, much more than some of the others might currently be experiencing at this time. Certain builds were clearly too good at their roles for the level of skill expected from the player, which creates a huge problem with issues concerning balance. Are we hurting as a hybrid oriented class due to the rather large extremes presented to us for fully specializing either power or condition? Absolutely. Are we currently faced with performance issues that are clearly interfering with our ability to contribute on both a personal and team level. Yes, though ironing out bugs that have been clearly documented and presented to the dev team on a silver platter will be a very large step in opening up more reliable build options and improve overall performance simultaneously. The reality of the current situation is that you cannot expect to play in the same manner as previously, because to be blunt, it is an entirely different environment that is far less forgiving.

Phineas Poe.3018:

It’s weird you say this because I feel like we have *more choice now than before.*

I am both with and against this statement. It currently feels like we have more options available to us as certain specs have received a considerable upgrade, but we are nearing the plateau where dust settles and we inevitably return to expectation once their limitations are fully realized.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Instead of being forced into Celestial, we now can specialize.

This is both a liberating and disconcerting experience. There was a level of performance and security from Celestial before that is hard to imitate with the new environment. Admittedly, I am loving the challenge to explore more tanky options that I had theory crafted prior to the overhaul and have yielded my own satisfying results. This is clearly not the case with everyone at this point, as it may be hard to let go of their previous expectations and experiences.

Phineas Poe.3018:

With the BWEs coming up, you just have to be patient.

I will be the first to admit that I have not been as patient as I can be. The community banded together to list and submit issues, many of which existed and were corrected at some point during the years following release, somehow resurface during the June update and we have no resolution to them over a month later. It is almost inexcusable in my mind that some of these issues have yet to be addressed as it is a huge blow to the performance of Engineers in general. A handful of malfunctions is understandable, but a 3 page manifesto reeks of negligence. Concise responses on the intended performance of some of these issues would allow us to provide feedback on improving the class as a whole.

how many of you are spec’d tools, alchemy, explosives? most of you I bet. those that are condi builds are using firearms instead of explosives. its not like pre patch where we just couldnt pass up grenades cause it was so good, this is simply lack of better choices.

sure most everyone used cele before but it could actually be a dozen variations and thats why we like it. I would guess many others like me, make engi our mains because it was a great hybrid class and that allure has been strangled.

No reason to play right now as an engineer and hardly a reason to play anything outside Ele/Mes which is why more and more games are filling up with those classes. Every build I see posted is Alch, Tools, Explosives/Firearms and take TK and Elixer S. OMG the DIVERSITY.

ANet is just awful with balancing in a timely manner OR bug fixing so I would expect the situation to be bad for another 3 months or so.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I’ve used all three and won plenty of matches with them. Overall I think there’s still balance issues, especially with regard to mesmer and elementalist, but you have got to be kidding me if you think we had more options before June 23. It was Celestial or bust, and there’s no way mesmers and elementalists are staying as-is for much longer.

You make some good arguments, but I’d say the main issue of being “freed from celestial rifle” is that all of our exciting new options and build diversity, are strictly inferior to the old cele build in every way. Its like how ele mains complain about running water and arcana in every build, only to realize that if either of those traitlines were nerfed in terms of sustain, then ele as a whole would fall out of the meta altogether. That is what happened to the engineer.

Aside from that the main reason that cele engi isn’t good is that it can’t keep up with the power creep. In the cele meta, eles, warriors, and engis ran cele because they could do comparable damage to zerker classes (overtime combined with condi pressure) while being tanky enough to handle other celes and take a few hits from those zerkers. Now that the zerker amulet does so much more damage and that mesmers (and thieves to a lesser extent) are so powerfully bursty, you can’t survive against them very easily with a cele amulet, in part because engi hasn’t been able to heal through any damage it takes as easily as elementalist, and because that damage is so much higher, and that things like backpack regen were nerfed, cele engi just can’t keep up.

And to finish that off, the traitlines are problematic and condition changes (like stackable burning) hurt engis more than other classes due to having the worst access to cleanse out of arguably any class in the game. Even if you go all out into inventions and alchemy, and take elixir gun, your cleanse is still on the weak side.

Comparing explosives to the fire magic trait line for Elementalist is almost absurd. Fire magic gives bonus power while in fire, a passive proc condi removal, and lots of might stacking, cooldown reduction on the fire skills, 2 10% damage modifiers that are basically active whenever you’re in fire, and easy blind procs with a low ICD when you inflict burn (which you will do a lot).

Explosives makes grenades functional, gives you a kitten y rocket proc for an extra 1000 damage every 10 seconds (100 more DPS, yay), a 10% damage modifier for your grenades, a bomb on dodge that is pretty much useless, and then either the choice of making mortar functional, or shrapnel, which is honestly the most underwhelming GM trait I can think of across all classes. A 15% chance to proc 2 stacks of a condition that does very little damage with that duration and stacking, and a very short duration cripple? Thats so bad in practice it makes me angry.

There are way more issues aside but thats one reason why I feel that engi is so tough to make viable right now. And comparing explosives to fire magic, just makes me realize how terrible things are. Maybe if we didn’t need traits to make kits not completely suck, things would be a lot better for the engi in its current, deplorable state.

Sorry to hear that. The class works fine for me. It’s not as OP as, say, celestial ele, but it’s a solid class that can win games with the right build played well.

I find it funny that ppl complain about how weak engi is. Sure its no longer top tier but still viable (ye cele still works) and is with every class except Ele and maybe Mes in a line.

People posting here complain about how broken engis are…

Meanwhile, Chaithh and Bigzan are out winning tourny games.

do you watch chaithh’s streams? hes not too thrilled with the state of engi either.

the last match I watch with bigzan orng vs tcg I think, he played a bunker build. he ran around alot gear blocking, the only saving grace was his fantastic presence of mind to be where needed at the right time.

Synosius.9876:

do you watch chaithh’s streams? hes not too thrilled with the state of engi either.

the last match I watch with bigzan orng vs tcg I think, he played a bunker build. he ran around alot gear blocking, the only saving grace was his fantastic presence of mind to be where needed at the right time.

Yea, I know he’s not happy with the state of engis, but he’s still winning games.

And what does it matter if he plays “bunker” (I wouldn’t really call soldier’s build a bunker though)? TCG has been owning and he’s been a staple of their group.

The point is: If you’re not at pro level in this game, it’s not because you’re playing engi, even if it would be a bit easier to win a few games with one of the overtuned professions.

Synosius.9876:

how many of you are spec’d tools, alchemy, explosives? most of you I bet. those that are condi builds are using firearms instead of explosives. its not like pre patch where we just couldnt pass up grenades cause it was so good, this is simply lack of better choices.

sure most everyone used cele before but it could actually be a dozen variations and thats why we like it. I would guess many others like me, make engi our mains because it was a great hybrid class and that allure has been strangled.

There isn’t a tree that isn’t used in PvP.

Soldier uses Explosives/Inventions/Alchemy.
Marauder uses Explosives/Alchemy/Tools.
Condi uses Firearms/Alchemy/Tools.

Hell, across the board I don’t think we’ve ever had better balance between trait line usage across all classes. Obviously PvE will always focus toward the damage trees, but very few classes pre-patch (maybe only warrior, elementalist, and guardian honestly) actually dipped deeply into their defensive trees while most every tree is used and focused in some aspect of the game.

The meta is different, for sure, and we aren’t king at 1v1s anymore. And I’m sure Chaith is unhappy about the state of things, as I think we’ve swapped roles across the game. Pre-patch we were “great/good” in PvE and “meta” in PvP. Now we’re “meta” in PvE and “great/good” in PvP.

Unless you’re someone like Chaith that actually plays in tournaments, this discrepancy is more mental than anything.

doesn’t seem so bad when im playing engi. i can 1v1 and teamfight with ease.

Built and played well, Engineer is still the best class in the game in my opinion.
(Don’t tell Reddit)

Took a bit of time playing all the other professions again and changing up my play-style a little, but I feel extremely confident that Engineer is still a beast.

That said, all professions have a lot of potential, I’ve been able to perform well with recent builds on everything except Thief, but only because I don’t play Thief.

Just keep working on your skills OP and really try to ensure there is a harmony between your traits/abilities/stats and runes/sigils. There is plenty to think about, but that’s what makes it a fun experience.

Thank you for all your answers. First, I just wanted to express my huge frustration somewhere, and when I came back on the forum I was sure people would had just taunt me back, but instead of this I could read very rich and clever discussions of both sides about the situation.