Guild Wars 2

Now, I don’t know about you, but I’m a Kitgineer, so fast switching between kits is a neccessity to me. But really, the only effect I feel that I benefit from is the elixirgun. The rest are way too situational to be reliable. But if Engineer is a class that is all about quick swapping between kits, is not having this internal CD, forcing us to waste a kit refinment on a useless effect, just punishing the engineer for being flexible? It makes no sense.

I think we should either lose the cooldown or have the option to turn refinment effects off from weapons individually. Because hay, let’s make the Engineer a little bit more flexible, that’s our creed anyways, to be flexible.

Kit refinement is the worse engineer nerf since release.

Not because it’s make us bad, it doesn’t. But because within all the option they had to balance kit refinement, they chose the worse and nerfed multikit engineer, who didn’t deserve that.

I think the global cooldown added to Kit Refinement was their idea of a band-aid to “balancing” the Engineer.

I think they need to just remove the global cooldown and move it up the tree. 20 points in Tools seems fair.

The kit refinement nerf doesn’t even affect the build it was meant specifically to nerf (100 nades). Instead its bugged out and doesn’t impact the two kits that help make 100 nades possible, grenades and tools. Its a failure in all fronts.

Pretty much tells you exactly how much care and testing goes into the Engineer class.

Keep in mind that the trait is currently broken, currently global cooldown only triggers with FT and EG which got boosted in the same update, this is probably intentional so people would create builds around these kits instead of just swamping in and out but sadly they are still not worth it yet..

Kit refinement will be Nerf again on the upcoming update and lets cross our fingers the “less damage, more utility” Anet is aiming for will actually be something good, or at least decent, specially since they are killing 100nades and Turret buff will most likely be a flop, 99% chance that they will continue to be as "useful"as they currently are..

The upcoming change scares me. For both the best power and the best bunker builds for engis, kit refinement is an absolute necessity and central to them. I’d hate to see 2/3 of our viable tourney builds destroyed in one fell swoop because a “ten point trait” got nerfed.

I don’t think ANYONE would mind it if kit refinement was replaced by the absolute JOKE of a grandmaster trait armor mods and became a grandmaster trait itself if it remained unchanged. Before a-net starts talking about how strong adept traits are they better start looking up the trees at the broken and worthless ones.

Yeah, I don’t understand Anet.

They say our kit refinement is too strong for a 10 points traits, yet we have garbage as GM traits.

I think it’s only logical to put this kit refinement in a GM spot and not nerf it.

It’s the only trait in tools that deserve to be a GM traits.

Everything else deserve to be a 10 points traits, except maybe the lower cooldown on toolkit + cripple and the static discharge.

I just went through tools and counted SEVEN worthless traits. Scope has been broken since they game is out, deployable turrets is complete kitten because turrets are kitten, same with speedy gadgets, leg mods is a joke as a master trait (in the same tree as speedy kits, no less, an adept trait that gives more speed on ALL kits), always prepared is so worthless with our downed state and is probably the worst downed trait there is in conjunction with our RNG condi downed state (enemies can pick up the dropped weapons, lol), armor mods might be the most worthless GM trait in the entire game and packaged stimulants is only used because it’s bugged to allow the stim to be on a 15 second CD.

And yet they nerf kit refinement.

That’s the annoying part: the devs talk about how this one 10 point trait is too strong.
But they remain silent about how most of the other traits in that line are too weak for being 30, 20 or even 10 points…

If you nerf one, buff the others devs… it’s not that hard to understand.

I wouldn´t like kit refinement becoming a GM trait – fully traiting into a kit and putting 30 points into tools would limit my options to much.

hydeaut.1758:

I wouldn´t like kit refinement becoming a GM trait – fully traiting into a kit and putting 30 points into tools would limit my options to much.

I agree.

@Hydeaut & Oxstar

They were too strong for Anet.

So you have the choice of :

10 points traits
20 second global cooldown + individual cooldown
SE and Grenade Barrage remove for something weaker.
Still lackluster 30 point tools trait.

or

30 points traits
individual cooldown
All KR effect stay the same.
Having a good GM trait for once.

I choice the second choice anytime. Sure you can keep it at 10 point and nerf it, but will your “options” still be viable?

Kimbald.2697:

most of the other traits in that line are too weak for being 30, 20 or even 10 points…

The problem with Adrenal Implants is that Invigorating Speed is a much easier trait to spec for and synergizes well with Infused Precision. And since every other Engineer out there has at least 10 points in Firearms and Alchemy, if you need the Vigor, it makes sense to swap out Precise Sights for it than sink 30 points into Tools.

I think Armor/Leg Mods are great ideas but they’re just too weak. Simply buff their potency. Have Armor Mods give 5 seconds of Retaliation every 15, not 25. And have Leg Mods work with all kits.

The rest of the traits are fine. Speedy Kits, Speedy Gadgets, Static Discharge, Deployable Turrets, and Power Wrench all are useful for the respective builds they’re used for. The problem is that those builds are weak. The traits themselves are fine.

20 points in Tools for Kit Refinement seems fair to me, even with the internal cooldown (Could be shaved to 6 secs or so).

It just seems to me that’s a fair middle ground, particularly when Elementalist has similar 10 and 30 point traits in their Arcane tree, that are (arguably) respectively, worse and better.

The argument that it should be moved up to 30 to make for a ‘good’ GM trait just seems silly to me, even if the internal CD is removed. Yes, it’s true our GM traits are lackluster. That does indeed call for a bit of an overhaul on certain traits, but that doesn’t mean we should be pigeon holed even more than we already are with some builds.

Halcyon.7352:

20 points in Tools for Kit Refinement seems fair to me, even with the internal cooldown (Could be shaved to 6 secs or so).

It just seems to me that’s a fair middle ground, particularly when Elementalist has similar 10 and 30 point traits in their Arcane tree, that are (arguably) respectively, worse and better.

The argument that it should be moved up to 30 to make for a ‘good’ GM trait just seems silly to me, even if the internal CD is removed. Yes, it’s true our GM traits are lackluster. That does indeed call for a bit of an overhaul on certain traits, but that doesn’t mean we should be pigeon holed even more than we already are with some builds.

I would think making Kit Refinement super powerful again would precisely eliminate the feeling of pigeonholed builds—especially those that think the Grenade Kit is our only option.

So with all due respect to all the Grenade Kit Engineers, buffing the Tool Kit and Flamethrower procs is well worth the sacrifice. If they buff the turrets properly (not holding my breath) and have the Tool Kit actually do something good when swapped-to beyond just an AoE cripple, it may actually have a role to shine in finally on the PvE side of things. In the bigger picture of the class and its overall health this is a change I welcome so long as it’s done properly.

Kit refinement had

• Damage
• Condi Removals
• Small heal
• Snare
• Utility

I don’t see how they could possibly go more utility with KR than that unless they give us stun breakers, its just being Nerf out of hate, because if you were to say something like SE was OP, then what would Soothing Mist be ? Minor trait, OP heal and party wide, no cool-down nor ending.

what will be probably be done is; They chance grenade barrage for some extremely useless ability, toss 1 grenade into that air that will land 30s later! hitting your foe for 100 damage. and SE duration will be reduced from full to probably 3-5 seconds.

and unless they make turrets into a kit ( they do little damage but could provide utility as a whole, as well as people would start using turret traits which currently only works as visual clutter ), and still not be as strong as ele’s summons or mesmer illusions.

Kardiamond.6952:

Yeah, I don’t understand Anet.

They say our kit refinement is too strong for a 10 points traits, yet we have garbage as GM traits.

I think it’s only logical to put this kit refinement in a GM spot and not nerf it.

It’s the only trait in tools that deserve to be a GM traits.

Everything else deserve to be a 10 points traits, except maybe the lower cooldown on toolkit + cripple and the static discharge.

What got me the most was that they commented that Kit Refinement was to good for its 10pt place in the tree. But didnt mention about the awesome 10pt traits other professions had.

Really? why should our cool 10pt toy be nerfed… Its already a serious choice as its between that, and swiftness on equiping kits. I love both…

Kardiamond.6952:

@Hydeaut & Oxstar

They were too strong for Anet.

So you have the choice of :

10 points traits
20 second global cooldown + individual cooldown
SE and Grenade Barrage remove for something weaker.
Still lackluster 30 point tools trait.

or

30 points traits
individual cooldown
All KR effect stay the same.
Having a good GM trait for once.

I choice the second choice anytime. Sure you can keep it at 10 point and nerf it, but will your “options” still be viable?

Too strong? The only useful one was double super elixir – The rest were pretty much USELESS. The only thing ANet achieved is to make it harder for us to do the same.

I think the only thing it was suppose to change was the condition removal on the elixir gun and the flamethrower not sharing any cooldown. They should really explain the patch notes more clearly.

Instead I think they could of just removed condition removal from the elixir gun and it would still have condition removal from #3 skill and still be a good build for wvw with the buff to super elixir. It’s a build I would like to look into but if I am choosing fire aoe or healing aoe it just seems like a waste of time and a staff Elementalist could do a better job.

Dyeus.6759:

I think the only thing it was suppose to change was the condition removal on the elixir gun and the flamethrower not sharing any cooldown. They should really explain the patch notes more clearly.

Instead I think they could of just removed condition removal from the elixir gun and it would still have condition removal from #3 skill and still be a good build for wvw with the buff to super elixir. It’s a build I would like to look into but if I am choosing fire aoe or healing aoe it just seems like a waste of time and a staff Elementalist could do a better job.

It’s funny how people keep saying staff elese are better healers than kit refined engies. I don’t say you’re wrong but I have yet to be outshined by one.

It was silly, you need 30 points in Explosives to get the 100nade build, so 40 points, and really Grenadier is the problem.

Except they specifically stated nade n EG KitRef are both too powerful, so I expect them to be shortening the Super elixer duration and removing its impact heal for the refinement, nades will launch something like blind nades, or even better, rng on which nade gets launched. And if they really cared, they would just make nade refinement detonate around you, not launch from inside your model….

Lord Aargadon.4135:

It was silly, you need 30 points in Explosives to get the 100nade build, so 40 points, and really Grenadier is the problem.

Except they specifically stated nade n EG KitRef are both too powerful, so I expect them to be shortening the Super elixer duration and removing its impact heal for the refinement, nades will launch something like blind nades, or even better, rng on which nade gets launched. And if they really cared, they would just make nade refinement detonate around you, not launch from inside your model….

I do hope they don’t… It’s only thanks to EG that I can compete with other classes, well, not ONLY but take it away and it’s a giant nerf.