Guild Wars 2

What do you think? Personally, I think the odds are around 65 or 70%.

I think it’s very unlikely that the HGH trait will be weakened or reworked. It’s a 30 point trait, which makes it a build defining one. Basically it’s working as intended; it’s a powerful, build defining trait yet expensive (thus limiting what else you can get).

It’s a strong, successful offensive build but it’s not tearing up PvE, WvW or PvP that it’s HGH Engineers or nothing and the trait doesn’t have/isn’t causing any unintended things to happen (Like Grenade Barraging inside people or getting a ‘free’ Super Elixir (yes, I realise they included it but that was clearly an oversight))

It’s a completely different situation to Kit Refinement, which was reworked because Arenanet are currently unwilling to move traits up and down the tree for some reason. Static Discharge is a far more likely candidate for being weakened or reworked as it’s a build defining trait currently in the 10 point trait zone and it’s not too far off HGH levels of power.

Personally I think they need to review where they place some of the traits because something like “Armor Mods” is an incredibly boring trait to create a build around even with a lower cooldown.

0%, because they buffed HGH several months back to what it is now. If 25 might were broke, warrior GS would’ve been nerfed forever ago. If you mean sPvP, it’s one of the few things engineer can manage, so it might happen.

If it prevents a thief from 2-shotting you, it will be nerfed. If the thief can still 2-shot you, it will stay.

100%. There is no doubt in my mind it will be nerfed eventually. It is the best build in the entire game.

People have recently started to cry about it too. Even if it is the hardest build to play in the game, it WILL be nerfed. My only fear is that we’re left like warriors with no other alternatives that remain competitive in tourneys.

To be honest, HGH isn’t even that good on its own. It’s the entire build together that is good because it synergizes so well. With HGH you get +30% boon duration for your elixirs boons, plus other great trait options in that line for condition removal and decreased elixir cooldowns, which means everything is working together nicely for your elixir utilities to be as powerful as possible.

I really don’t care if it gets nerfed a bit, as it is a really strong build. I just hope they don’t try to ‘rework’ it, as that involves destroying the synergy and usability into a trait that doesn’t work well with anything, even if the abilities themselves are cool.

Ostricheggs.3742:

100%. There is no doubt in my mind it will be nerfed eventually. It is the best build in the entire game.

People have recently started to cry about it too. Even if it is the hardest build to play in the game, it WILL be nerfed. My only fear is that we’re left like warriors with no other alternatives that remain competitive in tourneys.

This is my biggest fear in that they will nerf us to the point of no return.

Do people have any doubts? Ofcourse it will get nerfed. Either specifically or through the general Boon nerf ANet is working on. My guess, based on every bloody patch to date, both. Why? Because Engineer.

Our might stacks can be on par with a Warrior. So yes, it will be nerfed.

Sigh

Very unlikely this build will ever be nerfed. this is the build they want everyone to have. doesnt do too much damage, its 123 simply and not too hard to be killed by thief and mesmers

static discharge builds that offer a bigger damage burst will get a 2-5s internal cool down very soon

Ostricheggs.3742:

100%. There is no doubt in my mind it will be nerfed eventually. It is the best build in the entire game.

People have recently started to cry about it too. Even if it is the hardest build to play in the game, it WILL be nerfed. My only fear is that we’re left like warriors with no other alternatives that remain competitive in tourneys.

I don’t think it will be nerfed but then again, I don’t think it is the best build in the entire game.

MrForz.1953:

Our might stacks can be on par with a Warrior. So yes, it will be nerfed.

Well, that isn’t the only way we can get 25 stacks of might in a condition build but hey I guess they’ll nerf the other way too. Or maybe they’ll consider it a risk/reward thing…. HGH being too easy and combo field might stacking being totally pro….. who knows. shrugs

Double post like a forum ninja

google.3709:

Very unlikely this build will ever be nerfed. this is the build they want everyone to have. doesnt do too much damage, its 123 simply and not too hard to be killed by thief and mesmers

static discharge builds that offer a bigger damage burst will get a 2-5s internal cool down very soon

123 simply?

LOL

Have you ever played hgh in a tourney?

I don’t think they’ll nerf the build specifically, but they will more than likely nerf AoE damage in general at some point which will in turn water it down some.

That, and I expect at some point they will redo a few of the runes so that you can’t stack the extra might duration… I feel like this was something that was unintentional on their end, and most likely at least one of the standard 3 might duration sets will get a different 2nd rune ability.

Static discharge is next; 2-3 second cooldown? more like 10 second cooldown.

galandor.1059:

What do you think? Personally, I think the odds are around 65 or 70%.

The only time a popular off build for engineer didnt get nerfed right away in the next upcoming patch was when SD first became popular.

SD also hasnt been nerfed since then.

So on the same note i predict that there will be no nerfs to HgH specifically.
Maybe a general Might nerf as Might stacking can be abused on other classes as well

HGH will not be nerfed. I love the playstyle but turrets are infinitly more fun (despite despawning now.) I love running HGH for PvE and WvW, but for sPvP and tPvP turrets are my go-to.

HGH is an offensive support talent. When used with the condition remover talent you have much access to cond removal for your party, all the while providing boons. Giver armor+ boon duration runes makes you a walking boon machine for your party.

The only thing I see changing with HGH is it giving only 1 stack of Might instead of 2.

Also, guys. Static Discharge has been popular since October. If they were going to nerf it they probably would have already.

1) might stacking is an engies flavor. pp/HGH/condi-burst, ft/crit/bunkers, grenade/burst/aoe… all of our specs in some form stack might to account for the large spread of our talent points. not all can hit 25 reliably, but even 7-10 is 600-850 pow/condi.

2) y’all got your wish, we now have a spec that is legit (not based on broken traits or gimmicks) and high power to compete with dps class output, and a host of niche builds suited for specific tasks like boons, bunkers, and crowd control. Anet is unlikely to change that since engie ia now structured like everyone else.

3) I don’t think there are many people who know what the prefix meta actually means. it is misused frequently on game forums. hint: super adventure box IS a meta-game. Power specs within the game are just … the game.

;) silly post-modern e-kiddies.

nakoda.4213:

3) I don’t think there are many people who know what the prefix meta actually means. it is misused frequently on game forums. hint: super adventure box IS a meta-game. Power specs within the game are just … the game.

;) silly post-modern e-kiddies.

Semantics… At this point attempting to defend word meta’s status quo is stupid. It’s taken on a whole other meaning now. To ignore that is to ignore how language itself develops and only makes you look pedantic.

Particular specs and their superiority over others designed for the same role are meta. Welcome to guild wars!

For good measure:
http://www.shakespeare-online.com/biography/wordsinvented.html

I doubt they’ll change how HGH operates, but they may very well change how other things affect it. In particular, I could see them altering external boon duration bonuses. By external, I mean things from runes or food. For instance, they might put a cap on boon duration (or maybe just might duration) from runes or something like diminishing returns. That would be considered a nerf as far as HGH builds go, but it wouldn’t alter the way the trait functions.

Yamsandjams.3267:

I doubt they’ll change how HGH operates, but they may very well change how other things affect it. In particular, I could see them altering external boon duration bonuses. By external, I mean things from runes or food. For instance, they might put a cap on boon duration (or maybe just might duration) from runes or something like diminishing returns. That would be considered a nerf as far as HGH builds go, but it wouldn’t alter the way the trait functions.

I honestly figured this is the way they’d go. Sigil of battle in particular is what makes HgH and might stackin up to 25 viable.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Yamsandjams.3267:

I doubt they’ll change how HGH operates, but they may very well change how other things affect it. In particular, I could see them altering external boon duration bonuses. By external, I mean things from runes or food. For instance, they might put a cap on boon duration (or maybe just might duration) from runes or something like diminishing returns. That would be considered a nerf as far as HGH builds go, but it wouldn’t alter the way the trait functions.

I honestly figured this is the way they’d go. Sigil of battle in particular is what makes HgH and might stackin up to 25 viable.

Same. +40-60% Might increases through runes is on the overpowered side if your class has a might stacking trait & battle sigil.

If these runes went away, it’s not like there are no other good options or sigils, even. I’m in favor of limiting/diminishing returns on the runes & buffs.

The first thing I expect is to ‘fix’ how different rune sets stack.
Probably intended, but seeing how many just combine 2 runes of a set with others, they’ll let the effects override each other I guess.

Bit worried that HGH as a trait might see it’s effect lowered too.

At least we know someone will have to tell one of the devs the specc is too strong, in that one interview it appeared to be hearsay mostly what got 100nades nerfed.
No that the devs didn’t see some things themselves, but it sounded a bit like they had no real view themselves, and just went on what they were told by others about it.

Ostricheggs.3742:

100%. There is no doubt in my mind it will be nerfed eventually. It is the best build in the entire game.

People have recently started to cry about it too. Even if it is the hardest build to play in the game, it WILL be nerfed. My only fear is that we’re left like warriors with no other alternatives that remain competitive in tourneys.

I agree with you but I would emphasize “eventually.” Since HGH was literally just buffed to its current state a few months ago, I have a hard time believing the devs will bring themselves to retract their buff any time soon. That just looks very, very bad to customers.

Add in the fact that people are really only complaining about HGH engineers at the very top level of tournaments. They are considered weak in WvW (I don’t believe they are, but certainly no one is complaining about them). HGH is deadly in an organized team vs. the current FOTM comps (read: multiples of the exact builds that are weak to condi burst). Other than that, it’s just another build.

So I would say that in a few years, when no one is complaining about eles and everyone has forgotten that Anet buffed HGH to what it is now, they will nerf it, if it stays popular that long.

Going by recent patches, it will be nerfed into the ground soon. Of course, they will at the same time reduce the cooldown on some random gadget by 5 seconds, so everyone on the Engineer forum will loudly proclaim the class has been buffed.

Its not going to be nerfed, but they will probably weaken its effectiveness with Boon Hate.

Low. There’s really no reason to do so.

I don’t think ANet can afford to nerf our HGH Elixir builds for the simple reason that it’s pretty much the only option ANet have left viable for most of us atm.

google.3709:

Very unlikely this build will ever be nerfed. this is the build they want everyone to have. doesnt do too much damage, its 123 simply and not too hard to be killed by thief and mesmers

static discharge builds that offer a bigger damage burst will get a 2-5s internal cool down very soon

This is my bigger fear. I stopped playing HGH awhile ago and been loving SD. Using rams head I have 3 knockdowns and a net along with a couple of cripples and decent burst. Only thing I miss from HGH build is condition removal.

Zenguy.6421:

I don’t think ANet can afford to nerf our HGH Elixir builds for the simple reason that it’s pretty much the only option ANet have left viable for most of us atm.

That didn’t stop them from nerfing quickness.

A-net has a ridiculous record of nerfing classes into the ground. We were the target of one such mishap. Our only viable build (bombs, nades and R) was nerfed into the ground. Engis then proceeded to get entirely ignored by the playerbase for months and months until the few people actually playing it discovered ridiculously amazing builds following a TON of buffs (hundred nades, HGH power/condis, namely).

I have a feeling that they won’t have any problems with doing it again. The warrior took it up the kitten just last patch and will remain worthless in tourneys for many patches to come.

RaynStargaze.6510:

galandor.1059:

What do you think? Personally, I think the odds are around 65 or 70%.

The only time a popular off build for engineer didnt get nerfed right away in the next upcoming patch was when SD first became popular.

SD also hasnt been nerfed since then.

So on the same note i predict that there will be no nerfs to HgH specifically.
Maybe a general Might nerf as Might stacking can be abused on other classes as well

HGH conditions is a much more well rounded build and overall considerably stronger than SD though. In an SD centered build you have no defenses to speak of while getting moderate burst at best in return. There’s a reason hardly anyone is using it these days.

blurps.2340:

RaynStargaze.6510:

galandor.1059:

What do you think? Personally, I think the odds are around 65 or 70%.

The only time a popular off build for engineer didnt get nerfed right away in the next upcoming patch was when SD first became popular.

SD also hasnt been nerfed since then.

So on the same note i predict that there will be no nerfs to HgH specifically.
Maybe a general Might nerf as Might stacking can be abused on other classes as well

HGH conditions is a much more well rounded build and overall considerably stronger than SD though. In an SD centered build you have no defenses to speak of while getting moderate burst at best in return. There’s a reason hardly anyone is using it these days.

yup thats definitely true

I’m thinking 90% chance of nerfing. I’m pretty sure that every engineer build that has become popular has been nerfed.

The devs want the base to play a variety of builds, and the only way they know how to do that is through nerfs. If something becomes too popular they nerf it.

The problem with that, is that, eventually nothing is worth playing. If you take that practice to it’s most extreme, you end up with the engineer.

Ezeriel.9574:

I’m thinking 90% chance of nerfing. I’m pretty sure that every engineer build that has become popular has been nerfed.

The devs want the base to play a variety of builds, and the only way they know how to do that is through nerfs. If something becomes too popular they nerf it.

The problem with that, is that, eventually nothing is worth playing. If you take that practice to it’s most extreme, you end up with the engineer.

That isn’t true either. Take a look at triple cantrip water eles, they’re still one of the best specs in the game for months and months running.

Honestly any speculation on what a-net does with balance is kinda pointless. When they get a bur up their kitten to do something they’re gonna do it even if it damages the game itself. Logic and actual balance in their balancing don’t seem to play a role…

Who’s the squeakiest wheel? QQ-more whiners. After that? The “I dominate your face and am bored with my OP class. Nerf me or my legions and I will quit,” crowd. So, all you can do is hope and pray that HGH falls somewhere between the two.

Jay.4837:

Who’s the squeakiest wheel? QQ-more whiners. After that? The “I dominate your face and am bored with my OP class. Nerf me or my legions and I will quit,” crowd. So, all you can do is hope and pray that HGH falls somewhere between the two.

or basically pray no dev has a second cousin whispering him he got owned by a 24k HGH condi burst…

HGH is OP in the condition damage context. Should be nerfed.

The only ppl who think HGH is OP are the ones who get killed by HGH Engies.
If you’ve played enough to be successful with it you would agree the reward is worth the effort.

Punkins.2087:

HGH is OP in the condition damage context. Should be nerfed.

It’s OP? Compared with the top builds of other classes? Really?
Have you got any evidence to back that up?

(FYI, OP means “over powered”. It does not mean “effective when used skilfully in extended play”.)

Punkins.2087:

HGH is OP in the condition damage context. Should be nerfed.

I think HGH is greatly overrated.

Kimbald.2697:

or basically pray no dev has a second cousin whispering him he got owned by a 24k HGH condi burst…

so much this it hurts.

“ya, i pretty much make changes based on pms people send me in game and from what i read on the forums”

/facepalm

what about .. data mining your kitten database and doing some math.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Punkins.2087:

HGH is OP in the condition damage context. Should be nerfed.

I think HGH is greatly overrated.

It’s good enough for people to complain about it on the Structured PvP forums.

Nilix.2170:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Punkins.2087:

HGH is OP in the condition damage context. Should be nerfed.

I think HGH is greatly overrated.

It’s good enough for people to complain about it on the Structured PvP forums.

HGH counters bunker eles and guards. Of course people are complaining, since 2-4 of those professions are in practically every tournament team. It’s kind of funny, actually. I wonder what complainers expect to happen if HGH is nerfed? I see a lot of total bunker comps in that future.

nakoda.4213:

Kimbald.2697:

or basically pray no dev has a second cousin whispering him he got owned by a 24k HGH condi burst…

so much this it hurts.

“ya, i pretty much make changes based on pms people send me in game and from what i read on the forums”

/facepalm

what about .. data mining your kitten database and doing some math.

Or even… Wait for it….

Trying to roll with the mythical build in hot-, err i mean single tournament and try it for themselves first.

Well…

The HGH built is not that strong, it’s very easy to conter. Of course you win a probably 90% of all 1v1- or 2v1- (depnds on how good you play) fights but try to win with this built agains a reflection mesmer, who refelcts all projectiles on you. Good luck with HGH against him.
There might be a chance of 1% to win against him with this built. Other classes have reflection skills too theyy just need to roll them out instead of screaming „nerve Ingis HGH built“

so i dont think they will nerve it!

Btw if anyone has a good built against those kind of mesmer i mentioned bevore pls tell me =)

HGH is strong, but shouldn’t get nerfed. It relies on stacking a boon, and any build that functions with boon stacking is automatically vulnerable to boon removal. Take a Mesmer or a necromancer, and HGH is suddenly worthless, doubly so if the Mesmer is specced for boon stealing.

It’s strong, but has definite and easy to use counters.