Guild Wars 2

My comment comes from the way that so many kits and utilities fulfill essentially the same function.

Now, individually, I find that each utility seems fine.

However, when you look at them as a whole, I see that they aren’t really that fine.

For example, nearly 100% of the engineer works best at close range.

Rifle- Melee range works best. Blunderbuss, net shot and jump shot all work best at a short range. Overcharged shot also has quite a short range.

Pistols- Might not seem it, but poison darts needs a close range to be efficient, and offhand pistol and off hand shield both work best at a close and melee range.

Tool kit- Pretty obvious. Its a melee kit exclusively.

Flamethrower- Again, its close/melee range.

Bomb kit- Dropped at feet, with an explosion radius akin to melee attacks. Yep, another melee kit.

Elixir gun- Not so much this one, but fumigate does require a melee range. Acid bomb too, but that is a gap creator too, so it works.

Grenade kit- Lets not delude ourselves here. The targeting and flight path situation means that anything above a 600 range, is pretty hard to hit.

Why does the engineer need 95% of his kits and weapons to work best at melee? I don’t see why.

Another thing I’ve noticed. Look at some stun breakers. We have 4, quite a lot for a class. Why do we need 4? Elixir S gives 3s of invuln. That’s fine. Elixir R gives two guaranteed dodges, that’s pretty much 3s of evade right there. Rocket boots creates huge distance.

I suppose that their toolbelt skills are quite different, but do we really need 4 stun breakers?

In turrets too.

Flame turret gives burning in an AoE fashion. Trouble is, rocket turret also burns in an AoE fashion, with more DD damage.

Why do we need two turrets that do AoE burning? Ideally, they should make the rocket turret do some other condition and have some other effect.

There isn’t really much reason to take a flame turret currently. If you want a smoke combo field, bomb kit is much better.

I really think that some skills need to be changed up. Not in some short term wanting, but in the long term, because, to be frank, needing 7 short range weapon options is about as needed as needing a buff on the grenade kit.

There are many ways to skin a cat, young grasshopper. And Engineers are obsessive bunch.. we skin the same cat the same way multiple times, each time watching it meow in pain.

Ultimately, Engies are supposed to weave in and out of the combat. We are at heart a support class, so are expected to run up to the think of it at opportune moments to drop items (whether this be turrets or buffs) for our friends, or to debuff the enemies.

Xocolatl.6890:

There are many ways to skin a cat, young grasshopper. And Engineers are obsessive bunch.. we skin the same cat the same way multiple times, each time watching it meow in pain.

Ultimately, Engies are supposed to weave in and out of the combat. We are at heart a support class, so are expected to run up to the think of it at opportune moments to drop items (whether this be turrets or buffs) for our friends, or to debuff the enemies.

I have no problem with this playstyle, I use bombs and grenades and rifle in my build, and use them 50% grenades, 25% bombs and 25% rifle. Its quite a fluid playstyle, plus since I have toughness gear, I’m an aggro magnet so I have to be quite confident in my swapping of kits.

I just sometimes want the comfort, to get a nice long range weapon… and sit back and let some poor warrior do all the work.

Is that so much to ask for?

Lyuben.2613:

I just sometimes want the comfort, to get a nice long range weapon… and sit back and let some poor warrior do all the work.

Is that so much to ask for?

Please tell me which class can do that in gw2, in terms of solo? I am not trying to be ironic, I just really don’t know one.

Oh, I forgot that was the reason I don’t play other games.

I don’t go specifically with toughness, but I am kind of capable of standing still in the middle of 3 mobs without strafing around and just bombing them to death before I will ever die. I suppose a toughness build can do it better.

When there are other team members, it shall be easy for an engi to step aside and repeat the AoE conditions and combos too.

Regarding the “melee” issues, when we can cover the distance from 120 to 1500 and are still considered melee, I believe it’s pretty fair most classes throughout this game are melee?

I tend to think at least engies are more a hybrid that can control the distance better than some other classes?

Some of us like to jump in for a few high dmg output and then either jump out or knock the mobs back; while some others will just keep a distance and use ranged weapons. 450 is already a distance, if a distance that can’t be reached by mob is called not melee, then it’s either an exploit or not fun. at least in my eyes.

I like we have many possibilities of skill combinations. We don’t need to use the same stun breakers. They can match other skills or other play styles better. I believe we need them all.

Lyuben.2613:

Another thing I’ve noticed. Look at some stun breakers. We have 4, quite a lot for a class. Why do we need 4? Elixir S gives 3s of invuln. That’s fine. Elixir R gives two guaranteed dodges, that’s pretty much 3s of evade right there. Rocket boots creates huge distance.

look at the toss versions of these skills, S can give stability and other things, its much more then a simple stun break. R can up downed allies, much more then a stun breaker.

Rocket boots also cures movement hindering things letting you not only remove stun, but remove chill, cripple etc. this skills are strong because they are MORE then stun breakers by a large margin.

I suppose that their toolbelt skills are quite different, but do we really need 4 stun breakers?

As mentioned above, kinda yeah. Lol

In turrets too.

Flame turret gives burning in an AoE fashion. Trouble is, rocket turret also burns in an AoE fashion, with more DD damage.

Why do we need two turrets that do AoE burning? Ideally, they should make the rocket turret do some other condition and have some other effect.

There isn’t really much reason to take a flame turret currently. If you want a smoke combo field, bomb kit is much better.

But what ive im a turret spec not a bomb spec? I can now access a smoke field without bomb kit, and can deto my turrets for aoe stealth if im in a pickle.

I do concede that its damage is lacking on flame turret though, rocket turret is hands down, the best turret.

My answers in bold in above quote.

Dice Dragon.4326:

Lyuben.2613:

Another thing I’ve noticed. Look at some stun breakers. We have 4, quite a lot for a class. Why do we need 4? Elixir S gives 3s of invuln. That’s fine. Elixir R gives two guaranteed dodges, that’s pretty much 3s of evade right there. Rocket boots creates huge distance.

look at the toss versions of these skills, S can give stability and other things, its much more then a simple stun break. R can up downed allies, much more then a stun breaker.

Rocket boots also cures movement hindering things letting you not only remove stun, but remove chill, cripple etc. this skills are strong because they are MORE then stun breakers by a large margin.

I suppose that their toolbelt skills are quite different, but do we really need 4 stun breakers?

As mentioned above, kinda yeah. Lol

In turrets too.

Flame turret gives burning in an AoE fashion. Trouble is, rocket turret also burns in an AoE fashion, with more DD damage.

Why do we need two turrets that do AoE burning? Ideally, they should make the rocket turret do some other condition and have some other effect.

There isn’t really much reason to take a flame turret currently. If you want a smoke combo field, bomb kit is much better.

But what ive im a turret spec not a bomb spec? I can now access a smoke field without bomb kit, and can deto my turrets for aoe stealth if im in a pickle.

I do concede that its damage is lacking on flame turret though, rocket turret is hands down, the best turret.

My answers in bold in above quote.

Bomb kit has a blast finisher, and smoke field on a shorter cooldown than the flame turret.

I understand and acknowledge that toolbelts are differentiated. But you don’t need 4 very similar utilities, to get 4 unique and different toolbelts. You can make for example, utility goggles different and have a different purpose, and leave rocket boots as the ‘gadget’ stun break. You could make it so that elixir R does something else, that isn’t a stun break, so that elixir S is the ‘elixir’ stun break.

You can very easily have interesting toolbelts and interesting utilities.

joykafka.4308:

Regarding the “melee” issues, when we can cover the distance from 120 to 1500 and are still considered melee, I believe it’s pretty fair most classes throughout this game are melee?

I tend to think at least engies are more a hybrid that can control the distance better than some other classes?

Some of us like to jump in for a few high dmg output and then either jump out or knock the mobs back; while some others will just keep a distance and use ranged weapons. 450 is already a distance, if a distance that can’t be reached by mob is called not melee, then it’s either an exploit or not fun. at least in my eyes.

I like we have many possibilities of skill combinations. We don’t need to use the same stun breakers. They can match other skills or other play styles better. I believe we need them all.

1500 range? With what?

The fact of the matter is, all kits and weapons work best at melee range.

Saying that you CAN use it at 1000+ range, is like saying that you can use hip shot at 1000 range. Well, you can, but its not the most efficient or optimal use for the rifle.

And saying that 450 is not melee is not a good point. I wasn’t saying that engineers are exclusively melee in operation, rather, short range. Which is around 600 and under. At that range, gap closers are extremely easy to hit.

A necromancers staff, a mesmers greatsword and staff, an elementalist staff, a warrior rifle and longbow, a ranger longbow and a guardians scepter are true long ranged weapons that do not become less effective with long range.

And you say that stun breakers can match different playstyles, but what playstyles? If you need a stun break, why do you care if its elixir S, R, Rocket boots or Utility Goggles? If you want elixir Rs toolbelt, then you aren’t getting it for the stun break, you’re getting it for the toolbelt.

Lyuben,

Playing game is more fun

The elixirs are different. Perhaps it would be fun if you try to figure out yourself in game.

As for 1500 range:
- mortar: 1640 ~ 1740
- turret, grenade, etc, up to about 1440 I think

I am not interested in comparing a submarine to a space shuttle. As you pointed out already there are so many other classes that perform so much better in longer range, why shall engineers do the same? Shouldn’t there be a few classes that do something different?

As for the elixirs, they have different uses. I simply don’t see any redundancies or inadequacies as you described. They are differently useful. Perhaps we just find the variety very useful, and we don’t see them all as only a stun breaker. You need nothing but a stun breaker, while we need all the rest. I am sorry that you cannot enjoy playing an engie.

Happy gaming,

Lyuben.2613:

And saying that 450 is not melee is not a good point. I wasn’t saying that engineers are exclusively melee in operation, rather, short range. Which is around 600 and under. At that range, gap closers are extremely easy to hit.

I am interested to know what classes can always keep a distance larger than 600 and extremely difficult to get hit?

Please tell me and let’s suggest nerfing it.

Its not about being able to stay at 1200 range, its about being effective at that.

An engineer with a flamethrower is not rewarded for staying at a 1200 range because he can do kitten all at that range.

A staff necro can hit you with all his skills easily at that range.

In all cases, being able to be at a greater range, is better than being at a shorter range. Since being in melee range of anything, is pretty stupid unless your exclusive goal is to melee. Problem is, engineers don’t have such a long range tool. Neither do thieves I should add, but that’s really their problem.

joykafka.4308:

Lyuben,

Playing game is more fun

The elixirs are different. Perhaps it would be fun if you try to figure out yourself in game.

As for 1500 range:
- mortar: 1640 ~ 1740
- turret, grenade, etc, up to about 1440 I think

I am not interested in comparing a submarine to a space shuttle. As you pointed out already there are so many other classes that perform so much better in longer range, why shall engineers do the same? Shouldn’t there be a few classes that do something different?

As for the elixirs, they have different uses. I simply don’t see any redundancies or inadequacies as you described. They are differently useful. Perhaps we just find the variety very useful, and we don’t see them all as only a stun breaker. You need nothing but a stun breaker, while we need all the rest. I am sorry that you cannot enjoy playing an engie.

Happy gaming,

Having a 1500 range does not mean it works at that range.

Grenades and mortar are very slow in their targetting, so are only effective against completely static enemies at that range.

Even PvE bosses move sometimes.

Exactly, that’s why gaming is fun.

joykafka.4308:

Exactly, that’s why gaming is fun.

Who are you quoting?

Lyuben.2613:

Its not about being able to stay at 1200 range, its about being effective at that.

An engineer with a flamethrower is not rewarded for staying at a 1200 range because he can do kitten all at that range.

A staff necro can hit you with all his skills easily at that range.

In all cases, being able to be at a greater range, is better than being at a shorter range. Since being in melee range of anything, is pretty stupid unless your exclusive goal is to melee. Problem is, engineers don’t have such a long range tool. Neither do thieves I should add, but that’s really their problem.

So you are saying you can’t beat a necro as an engie?

Lyuben.2613:

Having a 1500 range does not mean it works at that range.

Grenades and mortar are very slow in their targetting, so are only effective against completely static enemies at that range.

Even PvE bosses move sometimes.

<== Exactly, so that’s why gaming is fun.

joykafka.4308:

Lyuben.2613:

Its not about being able to stay at 1200 range, its about being effective at that.

An engineer with a flamethrower is not rewarded for staying at a 1200 range because he can do kitten all at that range.

A staff necro can hit you with all his skills easily at that range.

In all cases, being able to be at a greater range, is better than being at a shorter range. Since being in melee range of anything, is pretty stupid unless your exclusive goal is to melee. Problem is, engineers don’t have such a long range tool. Neither do thieves I should add, but that’s really their problem.

So you are saying you can’t beat a necro as an engie?

I’m saying I would like the option the necro has.

The point of this thread is that pretty much all the kits and weapons work at the same range, which is redundant. I’m saying I’d prefer it if things were not so similar, and they instead had some variety.

I have no clue what you read to make you think I was talking about balance. I’m talking about design here.

If it is about design, I will presume it has nothing to do with necro and any other classes, and it won’t involve any comparison between classes. So let’s forget about other classes, in the case of design, a range from 120 to 1500+ is pretty wide. Isn’t it? I think it makes sense longer distance makes the hit rate lower or damage effectiveness lower, don’t you think so? An extra longer range comes at a price, very reasonable for me.

When I prefer to rezz my team mates or myself, I will tend to use Elixir R. When I prefer to deal more extra damage, I will tend to use Rocket Boots with a kick. I pretty like the fact that I have options.

I actually like the design of Engineers more than other classes.

In the beginning of the game, I pretty like to keep the distance. As for now, I enjoy melee a lot. I feel we do have the options.

Of course, if you have more creative ideas than the current kits, why not? There happens to be another thread discussing this.

Why would you forget about other classes? What about design means you can’t compare design of classes? There is no logic in that.

And to say that engineers have 1500+ is false. Grenades CAN go that far, but they are not viable or effective at that range for very obvious reasons you would find out about, if you took the time to use them in PvE and PvP.

Other classes are designed so that the weapons they have access to, fulfill numerous ranges. Engineers don’t have that advantage. Its all close range with the engineer.

You say you like to keep distance, but with what? What kit and what tool do you use to keep distance? If you use the rifle, well then you’re performing pretty poorly. Since the auto attack is the only reliable ranged attack on the rifle. Pistol? You won’t get the most of your PDV and offhand weapon. Elixir gun? Perhaps you could, however, it still works better at a melee range due to fumigate, elixir Fs bounces, and acid bomb.

Sorry, Lyuben.

As you described, engie isn’t worth the time playing at all.

Well, I enjoy the game with all the weapons and kits you mentioned. I repetitively use the so-called redundant skills to keep the distance. Likewise, I repetitively use the so-called redundant skills to keep myself secure in melee without moving at all. I hope the status quo not to be changed.

As for me, the design of Engineers is rather great, and I can’t see the problems you saw. I believe you are more experienced than I am and I am sorry that I am unable to help you with your questions. I have squeezed out all that I knew.

Happy gaming,

joykafka.4308:

Sorry, Lyuben.

As you described, engie isn’t worth the time playing at all.

Well, I enjoy the game with all the weapons and kits you mentioned. I repetitively use the so-called redundant skills to keep the distance. Likewise, I repetitively use the so-called redundant skills to keep myself secure in melee without moving at all. I hope the status quo not to be changed.

As for me, the design of Engineers is rather great, and I can’t see the problems you saw. I believe you are more experienced than I am and I am sorry that I am unable to help you with your questions. I have squeezed out all that I knew.

Happy gaming,

Are you capable of reading? Do you understand what reading comprehension is? Well I recommend taking a course in it.

Read the OP.

Everything you just said is wrong, and addressed by the OP.

I never said I think that skills are ‘redundant’ on their own. They are redundant as a whole and as a list because they do very similar things.

I don’t have a problem with the bomb kit. I don’t have a problem with the flamethrower. I don’t have a problem with the rifle. I don’t have a problem with the grenade kit.

I have a problem that they as a whole do very similar things. If you had bothered to read, you would have understood that, but who needs reading right?

I’ve played the engineer since the very first betas, reported many and numerous issues and it is still my main today. If you think that having a problem with something means that you are not allowed to play it, then you need to start living in the real world, because that is a very illogical and silly position to have, so I’d reconsider your views.

I completely agree with you. The engineer is a class which needs alot ( and I mean ALOT) of polishment. Many skills seem usesless, I can’t get why we would need 4stun breakers. Why would we need another distance-keeper such as rocketboots if we have overcharged shot as option?
Aswell as an melee kit option, why not just an melee weapon? It’s not we have alot of weapons. Randomness of elixers, turrets of wool, odd elites, broken trait system, and aerodynamic grenades which can make a bigget distance then a bullet from your rifle.

It’s alot allright…

Speaking of aerodynamic grenades… I think Anet stuck a bit too close to reality with them in some cases.

In HoTW there is a bit with a bridge which has a ‘roof’ on top of it.

If you try to throw grenades above the range of 450 or so, they hit the roof. So grenades don’t ever hit.

Having the ceiling affect gameplay is pretty stupid.

I feel like having all those pseudo-melee options is nice but I wouldn’t mind having some of them taken away to be turned into a long range skill set. I mean grenades are nice but not really practical for long range and rifle would be the perfect candidate for a long range make over.

As mentioned before a real melee weapon would also be nice because there is a big difference between operating in melee range vs being melee (namely the reduced damage from actually being ranged albeit short). Allowing engineers to use hammers or just buffing the tool kit would easily fill that gap and with a real melee option you open up a spot for that ranged set.

Keep in mind that although we have multiple melee options some of them work in funky ways.

Bomb kit = Great for point defense / kiting. Horrible for chasing kiters. ((ever try to chase someone and dps them with bomb kit?))

Grenade = Ok for kiters, good for point defense, not great for kiting ((ever try to run away from some and hit them with grenades? if you got room to strafe it’s not bad, but bomb kit is a lot better))

Tool kit = It should be a great anti kiter tool but magnet doesn’t work well enough for this. It’s good for kiting, okay for point defense.

Flamethrower = Not really that good for kiting or fighting kiters, great for point defense ((you get a lot of miss issues if you try to kite someone, you strafe and hit with flame jet.))

Rifle = Good all around.

Lyuben.2613:

And to say that engineers have 1500+ is false. Grenades CAN go that far, but they are not viable or effective at that range for very obvious reasons you would find out about, if you took the time to use them in PvE and PvP.

I don’t think grenades are totally useless at 1500 range. They’re terrible for hitting moving players, but I think there’s some use in WvW. You can attack people defending on tower battlements and such from a fairly safe distance, you can safely target a downed player and kill them from afar while punishing/discouraging revivers. You can use them to hit siege deployments, and they’re a decent area denial tool in large fights.

I don’t play sPvP so no idea what situations arise there.

In PvE, they can still be viable at long range in my experience. It’s not uncommon to have a situation where an enemy is fighting an ally and they aren’t moving much, you can get a few volleys in. When they’re moving, you can sometimes lead them, the AI can be predictable and doesn’t really attempt to avoid your incoming grenades. Even then, my gut feeling is that 1500 range is not a good range to be at in PvE, few battles are that dangerous and you can provide/get better support when you’re closer to the fights.

I would say they’re situational at long range, but not totally worthless, which seems acceptable to me. They provide good damage at a very safe distance at the cost of versatility. I wouldn’t mind getting speed or damage buffs though. An extreme case where the grenades hitscan would be highly amusing.

Xocolatl.6890:

There are many ways to skin a cat, young grasshopper. And Engineers are obsessive bunch.. we skin the same cat the same way multiple times, each time watching it meow in pain.

Ultimately, Engies are supposed to weave in and out of the combat. We are at heart a support class, so are expected to run up to the think of it at opportune moments to drop items (whether this be turrets or buffs) for our friends, or to debuff the enemies.

I don’t like this analogy :<

I feel the OP is being a bit over dramatic. Every profession has levels of redundancy. The level of redundancy you want to break it down to can vary. With that thought, one could ask why the game has so many weapon choices, thy all do damage, and that is redundant. We should just have each class only use a big stick for damage, because multiple weapons in redundant.

My question is, why do I see so many posters here arguing that we have too much redundancy, yet consistently lobbying in so many other threads for more kits that would do the same functions in new ways, massively increasing redundancy?

Totally agree with Lyuben, trough it looks like Engineer is a range class, its totally for close or mid range.

I cant understand why didnt they atleast give an OPTION to play rifle as range, and center the class araund it, (if rangers cant use it and thief have pistol). I am forced to play a class of totally different from engineer to have a “decent” ranged set of skills for a rifle?

Besides was Engineer not supposed to be a range class? Thats what you sead A NET i kittennig remember.

coglin.1496:

With that thought, one could ask why the game has so many weapon choices, thy all do damage, and that is redundant. We should just have each class only use a big stick for damage, because multiple weapons in redundant.

I agree with this. Complaining about redundancy (and is having multiple weapons work at a certain range redundancy? I mean theres only so many range options out there i.e short, medium and long) is a bit petty.

What you should be seeing is how the weapons vary. Rifle provides good control over the opponent. You get a gap creator, a bind, and a leap. Mix this with a net turret or the net tool belt skill and you can pretty much keep a melee enemy at range constantly.

Pistol offers conditions. For me, pistol is a bit boring, because all the abilities are essentially “doing damage but with different animations”. The offhand glue shot is quite useful though (sometimes).

Shield with a pistol however offers more utility, with a knockback/projectile reflect. and a block/stun.

We then have grenade kit which I personally rarely use, so I can’t comment much. I sympathise with the complaints about travel time of the grenades but I can’t offer a solution for this.

Bomb kit is nice, if kiting you can damage enemies while staying pretty much one step ahead of any hits. When traited, your bombs can heal aswell, which adds a nice variation of a melee buffing/healing option.

Really, if any class has the right to complain about redundancy it is the warrior. They have access to the most weapons, but they all basically do the same thing. Pretty much all their burst skills do the same thing.

“Really, if any class has the right to complain about redundancy it is the warrior. They have access to the most weapons, but they all basically do the same thing. Pretty much all their burst skills do the same thing.”

Thats a game design flaw that comes from “killing” the trinity and replacing it with something worse, that makes characters 1 dimensional Since all they can do is deal damage. CC and “support” cant even be considered as pure roles since you do them besides dealing damage.

The old trinity was fine, untill the devs didnt decide to FORCE players into rules, because you could not progress without a certaint role.
We should be ABLE TO PICK a role, but NOT GET FORCED to be one. . .

No matter how many weapons and skills ppl get if the design is bad….or more like not good enought.

Lyuben.2613:

My comment comes from the way that so many kits and utilities fulfill essentially the same function.

Now, individually, I find that each utility seems fine.

However, when you look at them as a whole, I see that they aren’t really that fine.

For example, nearly 100% of the engineer works best at close range.

Rifle- Melee range works best. Blunderbuss, net shot and jump shot all work best at a short range. Overcharged shot also has quite a short range.

Pistols- Might not seem it, but poison darts needs a close range to be efficient, and offhand pistol and off hand shield both work best at a close and melee range.

Tool kit- Pretty obvious. Its a melee kit exclusively.

Flamethrower- Again, its close/melee range.

Bomb kit- Dropped at feet, with an explosion radius akin to melee attacks. Yep, another melee kit.

Elixir gun- Not so much this one, but fumigate does require a melee range. Acid bomb too, but that is a gap creator too, so it works.

Grenade kit- Lets not delude ourselves here. The targeting and flight path situation means that anything above a 600 range, is pretty hard to hit.

Why does the engineer need 95% of his kits and weapons to work best at melee? I don’t see why.

Another thing I’ve noticed. Look at some stun breakers. We have 4, quite a lot for a class. Why do we need 4? Elixir S gives 3s of invuln. That’s fine. Elixir R gives two guaranteed dodges, that’s pretty much 3s of evade right there. Rocket boots creates huge distance.

I suppose that their toolbelt skills are quite different, but do we really need 4 stun breakers?

In turrets too.

Flame turret gives burning in an AoE fashion. Trouble is, rocket turret also burns in an AoE fashion, with more DD damage.

Why do we need two turrets that do AoE burning? Ideally, they should make the rocket turret do some other condition and have some other effect.

There isn’t really much reason to take a flame turret currently. If you want a smoke combo field, bomb kit is much better.

I really think that some skills need to be changed up. Not in some short term wanting, but in the long term, because, to be frank, needing 7 short range weapon options is about as needed as needing a buff on the grenade kit.

You are absolutely right. Engineers need some long range options. You would think something called a Mortar would have a good distance. Its starting to feel that we’re less of an engineer profession and more of a close range skirmisher type.

Yeah, the melee nature of engi is something I noticed a while back. and found it very disappointing.

Honestly, play my mesmer and the game changing nature of portal, feedback, null field is shocking as well.
never mind how powerful phantasms vs turrets are.

Know what else? mesmers have multiple cooldown and damage boosting talents for phantasms and illusions. and they stack. on weapon or from utility skill.
Know how are elixir cooldown traits don’t stack, or work with anything but utility slots?

Grenades have a 1.5s air time, at 1500 range.

I find it very amusing pistols have an effectively larger range then rifles. Due to p1 and static shot being fully functional at their max ranges. While rifle only has r1.

Most gadgets as well. Melee.
Slick shoes, rocket boots, ram. all melee. Mine field is melee and throw.
Goggles are 1200. Although 40s cd on 8 stacks of vul is lol.

Fixing turrets to be more in line with phantasm power, will go a long way.

Rifle, and rocket. as well as the knockback.
Even know, that knockback is pretty decent. doesnt scale. flat damage currently.. But 1500 is on light armor. 1207 vs 2600 armor.

I think it is interesting that you say it is redundant to have 4 stun breakers. Because we dont need that many.
I look at it from a different point of view: we have 4 skills which (also due to the toolbelt) provide different abilities but ALSO grant us the possibility to use them as stun breaker.
-Elixir R’s revival field is awesome, for solo and especially for teamplay
-Elixir S is nice in pvp because its toss increases your (team’s) chance on finishing somebody
-Goggles give you nice single target debuff
-Boots give you a blast finisher

I wouldnt say that they are redundant, they might overlap b/c of the fact they all break stun but thats not all they do. Depending on your preference and your skills/strategy one of those 4 skills might be perfect whereas the others arent.

Shade.3796:

I think it is interesting that you say it is redundant to have 4 stun breakers. Because we dont need that many.
I look at it from a different point of view: we have 4 skills which (also due to the toolbelt) provide different abilities but ALSO grant us the possibility to use them as stun breaker.
-Elixir R’s revival field is awesome, for solo and especially for teamplay
-Elixir S is nice in pvp because its toss increases your (team’s) chance on finishing somebody
-Goggles give you nice single target debuff
-Boots give you a blast finisher

I wouldnt say that they are redundant, they might overlap b/c of the fact they all break stun but thats not all they do. Depending on your preference and your skills/strategy one of those 4 skills might be perfect whereas the others arent.

This. The stunbusters are similar, not redundant. That’s like saying all skyscapers are the same because they all do the same thing— scrape the sky. They all look different and home different companies.

Each stunbuster has the same core— to break stun— and then has a distinct tip to it. The so called “redundancy” gives many players with different builds access to what most players need: a skill to break stun. Engineers get two utilities for the price of one through their tool belt. Each Buster gives a different tool belt skill for different playstyles.

As for the Kit’s and long-range incapabilities, I also have to disagree. Sure, we may not excel at long range like warriors, necros, or rangers, but we annihilate the mid to close range field. We can go long range when we need to, through grenades and rifles. We might not be the most effective, but we can. On your example of Staff Necromancers: Sure, they can accurately hit at a long range; but what happens when you get close? Chuck a net turret or a net shot, go on in there and bust some heads.

Lastly; turrets. I agree that turrets need some (read: a lot) of love. I don’t, however, think they need to swap the abilities for flame and rockets. They may provide similar effects, but the method for each is different. The rocket turret needs to overcharge to burn, if I recall, and even then it applies it at a long range. The flame turret is limited to close range. I would agree, however, that the flame turret does need a better overcharge, and it’s flame jet should act more like the flamethrowers. It should punish people for getting close, not just spit on them once and keel over.

TL;DR: I think everything is fine as it is. Our stunbusters are similar, yes, but cater to different situations and builds. Turrets (flame and rocket) are vastly different, though the flame needs some love. For kits and range, we don’t need to be masters of long range, we’re already masters of mid/close range. If you need long range coverage, spec for turrets, they can cover you at distances.

Rifle is not long range.

Elixir gun is.
Then pistols is next. Neither of which really come close to other professions long range options. as both are 50% long, 50% melee.

Stunbreakers yeah. basically 1 for each spec. Thats fine. thats pretty much the same as everyone.