Guild Wars 2

They broke Kit Refinement (KR). :-(

As one of only two traits specifically designed to complement our primary class mechanism ‘kit swapping’, Kit Refinement used to be the strongest argument that the Engineer really was a unique yet coherently designed class, and not merely a miss-match of effects from other classes with a bit of alternative key-binding thrown in.

Here was a trait where both its trigger and its effects were designed around the Eng’s primary class mechanism: kit swapping. As such, KR was the model (the only model) of what an Engineer trait should be – simple, elegant, effective and enjoyable to play, without being OP.
. . . That was, until the 26 Feb patch.

Prior to this patch, KR was a reliable trait on multi kit builds: 1) equip this trait; 2) switch to any kit in play; and 3) provided enough time had passed, an effect related to the kit you swapped to would proc. The more you used the Kit Swapping mechanism the more KR rewarded you with relevant effects (up to a sensible limit). Minor balancing (and the inappropriate Med-Kit KR effect) aside, here was evidence that the disparate components of the engineering class working perfectly in play.
- Kit Refinement was pure Engineering genius . . . until the latest patch.

Now, with the 26 Feb patch, KR actually gets worse (yes, RNG is worse for players) the more you make use of the Engineer’s core mechanism. With the revise KT, the more kit swapping you do in-game, the harder it is to predict which KR effect will proc and when. What was a brilliant piece of class design has been turned into something approaching another kitten RNG! The GW2 Engineer class has just lost its best (and possibly only) evidence of coherent design (no, an RNG is not design, it’s a cop-out).

Kit Refinement was far better before this latest patch. ANet, Please put it back the way it was. And, if its need some balancing then do that, not by messing with the design, but by tweaking each effect or kit specific cooldown.

TLDR: The old Kit Refinement trait was what all Engineer traits should be like. The 26 Feb patch broke it – it needs to be put back the way it was. ANet, tweak the power and/or cooldown of each KR effect if you must, but give us a back the old Kit Refinement trait.

And omnomberry food!

To be fair though us engineers were clearing the most OP class in the game.

Lantz.7240:

To be fair though us engineers were clearing the most OP class in the game.

Lol – OP and over-designed, that the Engineer class . . . not!

Zenguy, I don’t know about you, but its February here.

SilverWF.4789:

And omnomberry food!

This, while I’m sure you will disagree with me, is something that needed to be nerfed. All other on-crit effects in the game have cooldowns and not only was it exceedingly strong it didn’t make any sense in comparison. The food it still good, but it’s exceptional cases are now capped so that it performs similar to the rest of the food out there.

The way they handled Kit Refinement though, is a terrible way to nerf it. Weaker versions of the Grenade Barrage and Super Elixir from it would have been the better way. It should encourage multi-kit builds, not discourage them. Three kit builds with Kit Refinement got hampered significantly, even though Flamethrower and Elixir Gun by themselves received significant buffs. It seems counter-productive to build diversity, which is the thing they should be striving for.

Ayestes.1273:

SilverWF.4789:

And omnomberry food!

This, while I’m sure you will disagree with me, is something that needed to be nerfed. All other on-crit effects in the game have cooldowns and not only was it exceedingly strong it didn’t make any sense in comparison. The food it still good, but it’s exceptional cases are now capped so that it performs similar to the rest of the food out there.

The way they handled Kit Refinement though, is a terrible way to nerf it. Weaker versions of the Grenade Barrage and Super Elixir from it would have been the better way. It should encourage multi-kit builds, not discourage them. Three kit builds with Kit Refinement got hampered significantly, even though Flamethrower and Elixir Gun by themselves received significant buffs. It seems counter-productive to build diversity, which is the thing they should be striving for.

I have said this on most threads I’ve replied, if you think about, it seems that what anet wants to encourage players to stay in kits for longer and design build
around those kits like FT or EG, and discourage kit swamping

and even tho the trait is currently broke, i believe this was intentionally so that at a later date they can nerf again and claim it as a bug fix

Yeah I just disagree with that foundation. I think multi-kit builds are reasonable, especially if there is desire to make multiple builds viable.

This is pretty much how I feel.

I tried really hard to understand the reasoning behind this change, but can’t really think of any good reason this change was needed yet. Why would they want to punish multi kit swapping and make it more clumsy to use is beyond me. If I wanted to stick around with one kit, there are 7 other profession that does just that with 10 sec swap cooldowns.

If they really thought this trait was a trouble,(which I don’t think it is) they could have just nerfed each proc effects, like their cooldowns or effectiveness. There are a lot of other chain-able instant-cast skills out there. They could have easily tweaked the effectiveness, yet they damaged usability instead.

I am just overall frustrated with them arbitrarily breaking engi’s valuable tools which nobody complains about. If anything, we as a class need more flavor and oomph, not less.

google.3709:

I have said this on most threads I’ve replied, if you think about, it seems that what anet wants to encourage players to stay in kits for longer and design build around those kits like FT or EG, and discourage kit swamping

and even tho the trait is currently broke, i believe this was intentionally so that at a later date they can nerf again and claim it as a bug fix

I’ve learnt to never attribute to cunning what can be put down to inattention.

Kit swapping is the core Engineer mechanism. I doubt very much that ANet was trying to reduce the amount we do that. More likely they thought being able to generate 4 proc effects in less than 0.5s was OP and that they needed to fix that. Unfortunately the ‘fix’ broke the trait.

All they needed to do was put a 1 or 2s global CD on the trait, effectively spreading out the effects over a 4-8s period (much more balanced), and made the EG and GK KT effects a bit weaker. That would have been far better.

Pannonica.5378:

Zenguy, I don’t know about you, but its February here.

Lol. Hey, I hadn’t even noticed. Having major health stuff going on with both of my kids and with both of my parents all in the same month can kind of mess up your sense time a bit. Oh look, is it nearly March already?

Kit refinement nerf didnt seem to go through, there is no IDC atm. Abuse this before they nerf it.

ABUSE IT NOW

/15char

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Kit refinement nerf didnt seem to go through, there is no IDC atm. Abuse this before they nerf it.

It only applies if you use the FT or EG kr first. All other kits are unaffected.

But yes its best to abuse this until it gets fixed.

AsmallChicken.9634:

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Kit refinement nerf didnt seem to go through, there is no IDC atm. Abuse this before they nerf it.

It only applies if you use the FT or EG kr first. All other kits are unaffected.

But yes its best to abuse this until it gets fixed.

I am, the QQ that rolls in is awesome. So much OP ENGI cries going on atm because they cant win a 1v1. Love nooblets.

Zenguy.6421:

I’ve learnt to never attribute to cunning what can be put down to inattention.

Kit swapping is the core Engineer mechanism. I doubt very much that ANet was trying to reduce the amount we do that. More likely they thought being able to generate 4 proc effects in less than 0.5s was OP and that they needed to fix that. Unfortunately the ‘fix’ broke the trait.

All they needed to do was put a 1 or 2s global CD on the trait, effectively spreading out the effects over a 4-8s period (much more balanced), and made the EG and GK KT effects a bit weaker. That would have been far better.

The only part of your post I’d disagree with is the need to apply any nerf to KR. Effective and powerful seem, by anet, to be seen as OP. KR was powerful but it took some effort to make it work; it wasn’t a one-button-win mechanic. Not suggesting that you think it was OP, but I’ve seen similar Dev paths before in other games:

hit a class with a heavy nerf;
let the players talk themselves into a lesser nerf;
Devs introduce the lesser nerf (self-made hero) to much applause from players;

and the result….we have a skill that has been nerfed that didn’t need to be nerfed in the 1st place.

KR needs to be returned to where it was, there was nothing out of balance about the skill. If there is some issue in wvw/pvp with the 100nade thing, the Devs need to stop being lazy and find an appropriate fix relative to the specific issue, not demolish one of our central traits.

Same could be said about the nerf to food as a result of the warriors’ use of it; but that’s a separate thread.

Theorick.2713:

KR needs to be returned to where it was, there was nothing out of balance about the skill. If there is some issue in wvw/pvp with the 100nade thing, the Devs need to stop being lazy and find an appropriate fix relative to the specific issue, not demolish one of our central traits.

This ^

the funny thing is that this actually nerfed engineer versatility…

I thought we were supposed to be versatile but kind of crappy at everything we try?
Wasnt that the whole engineer class philosophy thing they published?

Ayestes.1273:

SilverWF.4789:

And omnomberry food!

This, while I’m sure you will disagree with me, is something that needed to be nerfed. All other on-crit effects in the game have cooldowns and not only was it exceedingly strong it didn’t make any sense in comparison. The food it still good, but it’s exceptional cases are now capped so that it performs similar to the rest of the food out there.

If together with the retaliation nerf (it will reflect part of damage once per 2 second) - yes, I will agree.
If together with FT buff (remove 5 hits/sec from FJ or make it unaffected by Retaliation) - yes, I will agree.

If only Omnomberry nerf - I will hardly disagree, coz it’s HUGE nerf for FT.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Kit refinement nerf didnt seem to go through, there is no IDC atm. Abuse this before they nerf it.

This is bad if they force us to abuse some bugs of our mechanic instead of give us straight and legal ways to be a good choise to play…

Retaliation needs to be changed certainly, I’d agree to that. Best solution I’ve ever heard was for Retaliation to stack with Intensity rather the Duration, and each time you take Retaliation you remove a charge. Therefore, the damage is effectively capped and controlled. When someone activates Retaliation, they will always deal X damage at most with it, rather then situations where someone can deal far more then x10 of what is expected when met with rapid-attacks, multi-attacks, and AoE attacks.

It would still mean someone with the Flamethrower is likely to suck up all the charges super fast, but that would leave the types of attacks that are vulnerable to Retaliation still vulnerable while still capping the excessive cases. This idea would take a rather large re-balancing of the Retaliation skills and boon though.

RaynStargaze.6510:

the funny thing is that this actually nerfed engineer versatility…

I thought we were supposed to be versatile but kind of crappy at everything we try?
Wasnt that the whole engineer class philosophy thing they published?

^^^ This