Guild Wars 2

I can honestly say and believe that the devs either do not like the engineer profession or just dont have a clear goal as to what to do with it.

To keep this relatively short and simple, I attempted to play another class in spvp. Warrior. Just building in the trait line in my head im thinking “What is all this free junk?”
“If i had half of this stuff on engie i could do so much more”…“Isnt this 20pt more on Engie?” likewise on some other class traits like rangers and guardian.

To me it looks like alot of love went into making a warrior and alot of leftovers went to the stepchild engineer. Lol. Ex. Elixir X says in a nutshell, “Use Ele elite, or Warrior elite.”
Mortar is just a wast of time and really goes without saying imo. Our turrets are far from really being usable viably and yet we are target for immobilize nerfs when warriors can keep us locked in place or knock us around just because we lack stability and stun breakers recharge so slowly. Maybe its just me, but I think engie needs some TLC from the devs. Just doesnt look like they care to me. Not saying they done, just stating what i see.

war was in a good place
from the start

I got depressed when I decided to take a look at the warrior and seen that 20 trait points gave a warrior all the tank he needed, sadly engineers are.really strong imagine how strong we would be if we had traits like other classes.

ukuni.8745:

I got depressed when I decided to take a look at the warrior and seen that 20 trait points gave a warrior all the tank he needed, sadly engineers are.really strong imagine how strong we would be if we had traits like other classes.

and then we get nerfed again

BlinkTwice.7932:

I can honestly say and believe that the devs either do not like the engineer profession or just dont have a clear goal as to what to do with it.

No, chances are you’re just looking at a relatively specialized subset (and hence imbalanced subset) of the game.

BlinkTwice.7932:

To keep this relatively short and simple, I attempted to play another class in spvp.

My point exactly. :P

Thing is, sPvP isn’t and (this part would take another page to explain, sorry) cannot be balanced. Neither should it be, because the game is far larger than sPvP.

One reason balance changes happen slowly is that unlike say WoW, GW2 has more game modes which are problematic to balance. In WoW, the dev team could realistically balance PvE “by the numbers” (raid performance is purely numbers-output in the player’s minds, no one cares how interactive something is to play or not), and use all the PvE-unused abilities which don’t provide raw output to balance PvP.
It helped them that of three arena formats, two were always inherently unbalanced, as even 5v5 was barely enough size to provide a balance framework for a MMORPG with ~34 classes (players there tend to consider specs as a separate class).

GW2 has WvW and sPvP which work completely different, but share classes (and mind you, a “simple” balance split wouldn’t be enough for this). On top of that, players tend to experiment a lot more with using all their abilities in PvE, so that has to be balanced, too. And you can’t just do it via autoattack DPS like in WoW.

Hence, slower changes. And much less changes in general.
But an important thing to keep in mind is that sPvP is never going to be even remotely balanced, a result of it’s nature as smallscape PvP in a genre which doesn’t support smallscape PvP on a mechanics level.

rogerwilko.6895:

war was in a good place
from the start

Because #BullsChargeFrenzy100byolozerk was a WONDERFUL place to be!

@OP, different professions are different

But engineers have the greatest variety of strong PvP builds in the game. Is there another profession beside warrior and engineer with a top-tier bunker build, top-tier condition build, and top-tier power build?

Yes, gadgets need traits and turrets need to work right. But from where I’m standing, engineer is in a great spot.

Top tier power build? Which one is that?

icewyrm.5038:

Top tier power build? Which one is that?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pyUH5y3F17IxoHdW0ZG0D7mX/+pAdB-jkBBYfA0HAZnFRjtNoIasabYqYER1yAoPBA-w

Very powerful power build.

Ah, I thought he was talking SPVP, not WVW.

rogerwilko.6895:

war was in a good place
from the start

Not really mate.

I’m going to disagree, with that being a good power build, generally speaking if the 3 man I run with see’s an engineer we focus it instantly the only saving grace that build has is the block which our guardian will remove instantly, then you are dead, plus without zerkers the damage is not good at all. If you want to fool yourself into thinking that power is good on an engineer be my guest, but it is not. You either spec conditions, or you run a sub par build, and that is unfortunately the way it is in wvw and spvp right now.

zaragoz.6351:

I’m going to disagree, with that being a good power build, generally speaking if the 3 man I run with see’s an engineer we focus it instantly the only saving grace that build has is the block which our guardian will remove instantly, then you are dead, plus without zerkers the damage is not good at all. If you want to fool yourself into thinking that power is good on an engineer be my guest, but it is not. You either spec conditions, or you run a sub par build, and that is unfortunately the way it is in wvw and spvp right now.

So power is not good because it can’t survive against a 1v3?

zaragoz.6351:

I’m going to disagree, with that being a good power build, generally speaking if the 3 man I run with see’s an engineer we focus it instantly the only saving grace that build has is the block which our guardian will remove instantly, then you are dead, plus without zerkers the damage is not good at all. If you want to fool yourself into thinking that power is good on an engineer be my guest, but it is not. You either spec conditions, or you run a sub par build, and that is unfortunately the way it is in wvw and spvp right now.

It has a free block every 15sec block, a 3 second block with a 16 sec CD. How do you remove toolkit block? (Should HT on the editor, my bad) on top of lots of AoE CC, and awesome burst, its a great power build.

Im also failing to see how the dmg isn’t good? 2k power, 50% crit, 96% crit dmg and 2900 armor is bad dmg i guess

Various skills go through blocks, including traited necro staff marks, certain ele skills, any warrior attacks with active buff from signet of might, etc. I don’t think a Guardian can hit through blocking skills though… I think he just means that the aegis would be stripped as soon as you got it.

icewyrm.5038:

Ah, I thought he was talking SPVP, not WVW.

I was. Our top-tier power builds are run by Chaith and others. Chaith’s power builds are often burst/control oriented with grenades and toolkit. Others have played SD-based full burst builds in top tournaments, but I don’t know if anyone is currently using an SD build in top matches.

To be more clear:
Guardians have: Bunker and some niche dps builds
Rangers have: spirits, maybe BM or traps
Warriors have: bunker, hambow, ss/lb, and maybe gs/lb
Mesmers have: phantasms, maybe shatter, PU for hotjoins/solo queues
Eles have: burst
Necros have: condi bomb, MM
Thieves have: d/p burst, s/d sustained dps, and maybe s/p burst
Engineers have: point control builds (several different versions), bomb/nade (like 5 different versions), power/control, maybe SD burst

My point is, overall build diversity is pretty healthy right now, with each profession having 1-5 different builds that are commonly used at top levels. Engineer has at least three, each with some pretty significant variations.

Edit:

zaragoz.6351:

You either spec conditions, or you run a sub par build, and that is unfortunately the way it is in wvw and spvp right now.

Yeah, it would be crazy if there were a power engineer in the top 10 TA leaderboards right now. I mean that could never happen, right?

NevirSayDie.6235:

Yeah, it would be crazy if there were a power engineer in the top 10 TA leaderboards right now. I mean that could never happen, right?

he plays condi in team queues.

engis are in a very good place in pvp atm. honestly i think people see turrets and how awful they are and are like oh man engi is so bad. why does anybody play this class? it’s like saying oh my god spirit weapons are just awful guardians are lowest tier. obviously not true.

I think Engineers are one of the stronger classes. They are tanky even for med armor and can spam a LOT of condies /dmg. Anyone that has put a lot of effort into engineer will notice how good they can be and how anoyingly indestructable with escape mechanisms they are to take down. even when fighting multiple enemies. It probably is a class that is harder to “master” so i guess not all ppl will find it that way.

I think Elementalist are the weakest in pvp at the moment. No offensive intended, and of course there are those that kick my kitten anyday :P Anyway could be my build, but i have little trouble with them overall.

Thiefs with 4-5 k heartseekers are my main frustration. Its just to easy, too much dmg.
And no chance to reply. They are more like Assasins, then thiefs…

Carpboy.7145:

zaragoz.6351:

I’m going to disagree, with that being a good power build, generally speaking if the 3 man I run with see’s an engineer we focus it instantly the only saving grace that build has is the block which our guardian will remove instantly, then you are dead, plus without zerkers the damage is not good at all. If you want to fool yourself into thinking that power is good on an engineer be my guest, but it is not. You either spec conditions, or you run a sub par build, and that is unfortunately the way it is in wvw and spvp right now.

It has a free block every 15sec block, a 3 second block with a 16 sec CD. How do you remove toolkit block? (Should HT on the editor, my bad) on top of lots of AoE CC, and awesome burst, its a great power build.

Im also failing to see how the dmg isn’t good? 2k power, 50% crit, 96% crit dmg and 2900 armor is bad dmg i guess

i rofl hard at your “greate power build”
rename it to greate victim build please, because thats what it is.
No stability, no stunbreaker, no protection, orbs instead of runes, 15k HP
god this makes me sad, you dont play alot wvw right?

Dont know how bad your enemys are but vs me you wouldnt survive 1 cc chain with a build like that. I guess you dont fight against people that use conditions or cc.

NevirSayDie.6235:

icewyrm.5038:

Ah, I thought he was talking SPVP, not WVW.

I was. Our top-tier power builds are run by Chaith and others. Chaith’s power builds are often burst/control oriented with grenades and toolkit. Others have played SD-based full burst builds in top tournaments, but I don’t know if anyone is currently using an SD build in top matches.

To be more clear:
Guardians have: Bunker and some niche dps builds
Rangers have: spirits, maybe BM or traps
Warriors have: bunker, hambow, ss/lb, and maybe gs/lb
Mesmers have: phantasms, maybe shatter, PU for hotjoins/solo queues
Eles have: burst
Necros have: condi bomb, MM
Thieves have: d/p burst, s/d sustained dps, and maybe s/p burst
Engineers have: point control builds (several different versions), bomb/nade (like 5 different versions), power/control, maybe SD burst

My point is, overall build diversity is pretty healthy right now, with each profession having 1-5 different builds that are commonly used at top levels. Engineer has at least three, each with some pretty significant variations.

Edit:

zaragoz.6351:

You either spec conditions, or you run a sub par build, and that is unfortunately the way it is in wvw and spvp right now.

Yeah, it would be crazy if there were a power engineer in the top 10 TA leaderboards right now. I mean that could never happen, right?

Watch his stream, he is using condi’s also I even saw where he was asked why he wasn’t running power, and he simply said himself conditions are better, and give more survivability while putting out great pressure. Can you run power? Yes. Is it as strong as conditions? NO.

Carpboy.7145:

zaragoz.6351:

I’m going to disagree, with that being a good power build, generally speaking if the 3 man I run with see’s an engineer we focus it instantly the only saving grace that build has is the block which our guardian will remove instantly, then you are dead, plus without zerkers the damage is not good at all. If you want to fool yourself into thinking that power is good on an engineer be my guest, but it is not. You either spec conditions, or you run a sub par build, and that is unfortunately the way it is in wvw and spvp right now.

It has a free block every 15sec block, a 3 second block with a 16 sec CD. How do you remove toolkit block? (Should HT on the editor, my bad) on top of lots of AoE CC, and awesome burst, its a great power build.

Im also failing to see how the dmg isn’t good? 2k power, 50% crit, 96% crit dmg and 2900 armor is bad dmg i guess

That is a wvw build. The damage is bad, because so many players have protection, and those that aren’t are running conditions and will have full toughness sets. ANY type of pull will remove toolkit block. Engineer, guardian, thief, mesmer. any class that can pull can remove it. That burst might be okay against a glass thief but any condi bunker, is just going to wreck you.

zaragoz.6351:

Watch his stream, he is using condi’s also I even saw where he was asked why he wasn’t running power, and he simply said himself conditions are better, and give more survivability while putting out great pressure. Can you run power? Yes. Is it as strong as conditions? NO.

Fair enough, I haven’t seen Chaith play for a little while.

I mean, don’t get me wrong here guys, power CAN kill people, it just isn’t our strongest card. Hell I routinely run around in wvw with full zerker SD and demolish people, but when the time comes to get serious I go put on my dire p/p nade build bottom line.

Kontrolle.3514:

Carpboy.7145:

zaragoz.6351:

I’m going to disagree, with that being a good power build, generally speaking if the 3 man I run with see’s an engineer we focus it instantly the only saving grace that build has is the block which our guardian will remove instantly, then you are dead, plus without zerkers the damage is not good at all. If you want to fool yourself into thinking that power is good on an engineer be my guest, but it is not. You either spec conditions, or you run a sub par build, and that is unfortunately the way it is in wvw and spvp right now.

It has a free block every 15sec block, a 3 second block with a 16 sec CD. How do you remove toolkit block? (Should HT on the editor, my bad) on top of lots of AoE CC, and awesome burst, its a great power build.

Im also failing to see how the dmg isn’t good? 2k power, 50% crit, 96% crit dmg and 2900 armor is bad dmg i guess

i rofl hard at your “greate power build”
rename it to greate victim build please, because thats what it is.
No stability, no stunbreaker, no protection, orbs instead of runes, 15k HP
god this makes me sad, you dont play alot wvw right?

Dont know how bad your enemys are but vs me you wouldnt survive 1 cc chain with a build like that. I guess you dont fight against people that use conditions or cc.

How many engineer builds (condi or power, doesn’t matter) have no stability? How many (again, condi or power) also have bottom tier condi removal?

So by your logic, the only viable build for engi is HGH.

rogerwilko.6895:

war was in a good place
from the start

From the start of what? No way man, war was in a HORRIBLE place before signet got buffed.

Writetyper.1985:

From the start of what? No way man, war was in a HORRIBLE place before signet got buffed.

Not at all. Warriors were always the default dungeon class due to high self-reliance, stackable buffs and extremely good damage against immobile targets.

They were also always pretty good WvW runners due to Warbanner, buff banners and control.

It was only sPvP, so at best a third of the game (and I suspect more like ~15% going by perceived activity in the zones + numbers shown in games), where they initially struggled.