Guild Wars 2

My first example. Here we have a warrior soloing a 5 man dungeon. ( was brought to my attention in another thread felt it needed a post of it’s own.) Because it’s perfectly balanced for a single class to be able to handle what a 5 man should be doing right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKy67S6uvNU

I tried searching for something similar for an engineer. The only thing that kept popping up was this. As you can see this is a full group. Just watch how many times the engi dies in this and the be reminded of why the downed state mechanics for engineers are so terrible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRyK95l71ZM

There are rumors floating around for what they plan on doing to effect changes to “improve balance” seriously if this class doesn’t at least get new downed state abilities, or at least have the miss problems addressed properly in the next three months, I’m pretty much done. And you have to understand that this isn’t coming from one of those kids who cry out “ragequit” every time there’s a problem, I was one of the biggest fanbois for this title completely based on what I saw pre-end game in BWEs and the massive number of interviews i both listened to and read in earnest for this title to be released. They were supposed to understand the gamers, and to have a more enlightened system of testing and balance (separating the programming for pvp and pve). None of that is happening.

My hopes rest with what’s coming.

Edit: Just found this on another thread. Helps illustrate the point I’m trying to make.

“JohnDied.3476:
Welp I dont know if we’ll get buffed, but grenades and bombs (all AOEs) are certainly getting nerfed in the future.
You know, to balance out the massive damage they do in comparison to all those weak single target skills no one uses, like backstab and killshot.”

Haha, your last paragraph was my friend to a T. I agree. None of that is happening.

Yeah the warrior soloing that stuff is just ridiculous and if I was on the dev team I would be a little embarrassed that this was even possible. Congrats to that guy though…it was an epic feat nonetheless.

I have been gaming for many years even so long as to know what it was like to game the very first MMO’s. Granted I was really young and just ran in circles half the time or had adult players gank me and steal my loot. Anyways….there are always classes like the eng in every one. No manner of complaining or stressing is going to change it. There has always got to be the one class that just doesn’t perform. It’s not to say it isn’t a fun class but it struggles to hang with the elites. Often what changes in the game is a universal “balancing” or nerfing of general game features in an attempt to bridge the disparity. Unfortunately this doesn’t really a make a class better…it just makes the game easier. Look what happened to WOW, it became a game you could run basically on autopilot. I wouldn’t say I am content with the engineer since I am a paying customer like everyone else and deserve to play my class without bugs. Yet I don’t get hopes up that things will dramatically change.

no one said warr = eng and no one said warr should = eng.

There’s another one with an Elementalist btw…

Just wanted to point out that the engineer wasn’t the only one dying in that fight. Everyone else was dying too… including the Elementalist, Guardian, and Thief. Classes considered not broken by most players. An example of a bad group doesn’t make a valid argument for a weak class IMO.

Daigle.8497:

There’s another one with an Elementalist btw…

Wow that’s even worse. That would pretty much make engineers the princess of versatility wouldn’t it. so much for queen.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Just wanted to point out that the engineer wasn’t the only one dying in that fight. Everyone else was dying too… including the Elementalist, Guardian, and Thief. Classes considered not broken by most players. An example of a bad group doesn’t make a valid argument for a weak class IMO.

Well take a look at all of the other videos on youtube all complete with engineers dying left and right. There’s plenty of them. It’s a weak class period anyone who’s played pve end game can tell you, there are a few people with blinders on but the fact that the two classes they want to give buffs to again that were perfectly op in their hits in the first place while destroying all of the classes who’s every attack is an AOE SHOULD concern you as a player.

So if they go thru with this AOE nerf, it will be bye bye bunker builds, good bye engineer/elementalists, goodbye explosive illusion mesmers, goodbye aoe farming necros the list goes on.

I’m just pointing out the obvious. When was the last time you ran a five man on your engi solo?

rogerwilko.6895:

no one said warr = eng and no one said warr should = eng.

missed the point entirely. played your warrior today?

Sort of funny I found this thread when I found this little.. let’s call it a oddity in talent points. We get a 50% increase in endurance regen in Grandmaster Major. To put this in comparison, here is a small list.

Ranger – Minor Adept (50% static)
Ele – Major Master (though only 25% and with a sceptor)
Ele Again – Major Adept (100% when channeling)
Thief – Minor Master (returns a portion, but can be considered faster regen)

Other:
Warrior – Minor Master (50% on burst use)
Engi – Minor Adept (10% on toolbelt use)
Ele – Major Master(25% on signet and arcane use)

From the logic I can gather, as a primarily ranged class we are SO OP we have to be hit with less dodging. And what’s worse, is it used to be a Minor Adept, but like usual we were nerfed. (big surprise right?)

rogerwilko.6895:

no one said warr = eng and no one said warr should = eng.

The point was about class balance. If one class can do it, then every class should be able to do it. If one class can do that – solo the dungeon – then they should all be able to.

Or so goes the theory.

Volitle.4628:

Sort of funny I found this thread when I found this little.. let’s call it a oddity in talent points. We get a 50% increase in endurance regen in Grandmaster Major. To put this in comparison, here is a small list.

Ranger – Minor Adept (50% static)
Ele – Major Master (though only 25% and with a sceptor)
Ele Again – Major Adept (100% when channeling)
Thief – Minor Master (returns a portion, but can be considered faster regen)

Other:
Warrior – Minor Master (50% on burst use)
Engi – Minor Adept (10% on toolbelt use)
Ele – Major Master(25% on signet and arcane use)

From the logic I can gather, as a primarily ranged class we are SO OP we have to be hit with less dodging. And what’s worse, is it used to be a Minor Adept, but like usual we were nerfed. (big surprise right?)

Yep completely agree I went over some of the things that prevent Engineers from doing the kind of burst damage that we see in Rangers and Thieves even tho they are supposed to all be Balanced and all Adventurer classes (which all leather wearing classes in every other game has always been well known for their DPS especially burst dps. Here we have engineers being the opposite. No matter what we do we are stuck with REALLY slow condition damage barely any burst (even with the skills that apply condi’s) and inequal survivability even with classes that use AOE’s. So we’re really at a loss alround.

I posted my thoughts on how engineers suffer due to inequality in traits compared to the two sister adventurer classes and what should be done to improve these traits to make them equal Quick examination reveals instantly that not even our basic unchangable traits (the mini ones) are equal and that every ability we rely on to increase our output of dps are all defensive (when we reach 75% health rather then when they reach 50% health) etc.

You don’t have Speedy Kits + Invigorating Speed listed in your summation. Is there a reason?

Volitle.4628:

Sort of funny I found this thread when I found this little.. let’s call it a oddity in talent points. We get a 50% increase in endurance regen in Grandmaster Major. To put this in comparison, here is a small list.

Ranger – Minor Adept (50% static)
Ele – Major Master (though only 25% and with a sceptor)
Ele Again – Major Adept (100% when channeling)
Thief – Minor Master (returns a portion, but can be considered faster regen)

Other:
Warrior – Minor Master (50% on burst use)
Engi – Minor Adept (10% on toolbelt use)
Ele – Major Master(25% on signet and arcane use)

From the logic I can gather, as a primarily ranged class we are SO OP we have to be hit with less dodging. And what’s worse, is it used to be a Minor Adept, but like usual we were nerfed. (big surprise right?)

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

You don’t have Speedy Kits + Invigorating Speed listed in your summation. Is there a reason?

Volitle.4628:

Sort of funny I found this thread when I found this little.. let’s call it a oddity in talent points. We get a 50% increase in endurance regen in Grandmaster Major. To put this in comparison, here is a small list.

Ranger – Minor Adept (50% static)
Ele – Major Master (though only 25% and with a sceptor)
Ele Again – Major Adept (100% when channeling)
Thief – Minor Master (returns a portion, but can be considered faster regen)

Other:
Warrior – Minor Master (50% on burst use)
Engi – Minor Adept (10% on toolbelt use)
Ele – Major Master(25% on signet and arcane use)

From the logic I can gather, as a primarily ranged class we are SO OP we have to be hit with less dodging. And what’s worse, is it used to be a Minor Adept, but like usual we were nerfed. (big surprise right?)

Even if I did, that’s two selections required to get five seconds of vigor, and at the cost of swapping kits (can be good or bad). I was speaking about static endurance regen, not the Vigor boon (which can be removed).

I guess I just have a different perspective on it than you do. There’s two things you pointed out as to evidence of imbalance:

1> A warrior soloing a dungeon.
2> An engineer dying a lot.

I can’t argue with the warrior soloing a dungeon. I’d imagine Arena Net doesn’t think that should happen either. But I don’t think just because a warrior or elementalist can do it, then my class should. I see it as a solo player shouldn’t be able to solo group content problem balance issue.

As far as videos of engineers dying alot – that’s anecdotal at best. There’s videos of engineers destroying every other class in PvP too. Neither set of videos tells me much about the class, but more about the players playing them.

I’m not saying Engineers are fine or don’t need some love. I’m just saying I don’t agree that your examples clearly display the issues you’re trying to bring to light.

tigirius.9014:

Well take a look at all of the other videos on youtube all complete with engineers dying left and right. There’s plenty of them. It’s a weak class period anyone who’s played pve end game can tell you, there are a few people with blinders on but the fact that the two classes they want to give buffs to again that were perfectly op in their hits in the first place while destroying all of the classes who’s every attack is an AOE SHOULD concern you as a player.

So if they go thru with this AOE nerf, it will be bye bye bunker builds, good bye engineer/elementalists, goodbye explosive illusion mesmers, goodbye aoe farming necros the list goes on.

I’m just pointing out the obvious. When was the last time you ran a five man on your engi solo?

Well you’re speaking of class balance and comparing them to other classes. I guess my point was that perhaps passive regen is lower than others is because “on demand” regen is greater than others?

Volitle.4628:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

You don’t have Speedy Kits + Invigorating Speed listed in your summation. Is there a reason?

Volitle.4628:

Sort of funny I found this thread when I found this little.. let’s call it a oddity in talent points. We get a 50% increase in endurance regen in Grandmaster Major. To put this in comparison, here is a small list.

Ranger – Minor Adept (50% static)
Ele – Major Master (though only 25% and with a sceptor)
Ele Again – Major Adept (100% when channeling)
Thief – Minor Master (returns a portion, but can be considered faster regen)

Other:
Warrior – Minor Master (50% on burst use)
Engi – Minor Adept (10% on toolbelt use)
Ele – Major Master(25% on signet and arcane use)

From the logic I can gather, as a primarily ranged class we are SO OP we have to be hit with less dodging. And what’s worse, is it used to be a Minor Adept, but like usual we were nerfed. (big surprise right?)

Even if I did, that’s two selections required to get five seconds of vigor, and at the cost of swapping kits (can be good or bad). I was speaking about static endurance regen, not the Vigor boon (which can be removed).

I have no idea what goes through the devs’ heads when they consider balancing this game. First they release half the classes with a massive amount of bugs and therefore unviable/boring/ineffective builds/weapons/class-mechanics. Then when the players make do with what we have and use the most effective things at our disposal, the devs nerf us because that’s not how we’re supposed to play the game and our abilities are imbalanced.

Our class balance goes back and forth from isolating the engineer in a little box and nerfing things that are better than the rest of our abilities, due to bugs and design flaws, to handing out blanket nerfs because other classes are too good at something, like AOE. The first case is bad because when they consider our class balance they don’t consider what those ability nerfs do to our standing with regards to the other classes, and the second is bad because when considering class balance in general they don’t consider the engineer at all.

tigirius.9014:

Daigle.8497:

There’s another one with an Elementalist btw…

Wow that’s even worse. That would pretty much make engineers the princess of versatility wouldn’t it. so much for queen.

Well, I think the Engineer is more of the jester of versatility.

At 11:05 I see this guy hit the boss for 262,508 damage!!! How is that even possible? Does the dungeon give a damage boost or something? I think the highest damage I’ve ever seen from my engineer was around 7k from grenade barrage. And I see him consistently hitting for over 20k damage.

From my personal experience, I really like my engineer for 1 on 1 PVP. But for anything else I do feel like I’m not quite as efficient as some of the other classes.

Engi is in serious trouble and after watching this video I can shoot down people who claim dps is’nt everything. All games are about dps/burst or connection between tankiness & dps. Engi can have tankiness (tank cat) or burst (zapper) but they both lack so much. I rally as zerg zapper and get badges and kills alot, but for real… If i face skilled players that sees through me my changes are around 10%. (If statistic discharge crit alot)

Surprisingly swordman power has gone overboard and now they discussing nerfing AOE damage. I smell big nerfs on the way! Whats left for engineer then? turret?

The biggest problem is that we don’t have real versatility either…

Every decent engineer build should be able to do at least 2 or 3 different aspects of the game very well, without being the best at it.
But the simple combination of fullfilling different roles should make us very strong. Without swapping traits, gear or anything, or even leaving combat.

If our damage is nerfed because of versatility, than our defenses should work on more than ‘only’ elixirs or ‘only’ this or that kit.
Our healing across the board should be stronger, our support should be more reliable without random procs and weak effects on long cooldowns.

Currently engineers pay a price for more than just damage: we pay a price in healing or support too, compared to what other professions can do.
This is wrong: if damage is lower, we should shine at all else ALL THE TIME. That is true versatility in this game.

Engineers should be the ones that do the lowest damage of the group, but it’s them that kept the others alive, tanked the boss, kited the adds and cleared all conditions and nasty effects more than any other in the group.
They swapped from melee to aoe and back in a split second, and helped getting the targets down everywhere without ever topping any ‘meter’.

The current engineer is the one doing the weaker healing, the unreliable support and the poor damage.
And to do either of these decent, he had to dedicate his entire build and traits for that one singular role!

Every decent engineer build is extremely single purpose, not any of the good builds is the least bit more versatile than other professions!
What’s going on dev’s?

Volitle.4628:

Sort of funny I found this thread when I found this little.. let’s call it a oddity in talent points. We get a 50% increase in endurance regen in Grandmaster Major. To put this in comparison, here is a small list.

Ranger – Minor Adept (50% static)
Ele – Major Master (though only 25% and with a sceptor)
Ele Again – Major Adept (100% when channeling)
Thief – Minor Master (returns a portion, but can be considered faster regen)

Other:
Warrior – Minor Master (50% on burst use)
Engi – Minor Adept (10% on toolbelt use)
Ele – Major Master(25% on signet and arcane use)

From the logic I can gather, as a primarily ranged class we are SO OP we have to be hit with less dodging. And what’s worse, is it used to be a Minor Adept, but like usual we were nerfed. (big surprise right?)

I found another oddity.
Ele – Minor Grandmaster (2% damage per boon)
Engi – Minor Grandmaster (1% damage per boon)

We can keep complaining, but AN doesn’t give a kitten about us engineers. I don’t know how they do their discussions on what classes or builds need fixing or nerfing but I’ve lost all my faith on them. Turning a blind eye on us engineers after a major nerf that devastated the class while continuing on buffing the already OP warriors. On the latest interview, not a single mention on the engineer was given.

Januari 28 th, another big patch in februari at the maximum.
That’s about as long as I intend to wait for significant fixes and changes.

They already said they would be focusing on bugfixes, so now’s the time (months late).
I just hope it’s not going to be another list of silly stuff coupled to mostly promises…

I’m not only waiting on engineer fixes by the way, this is also where they might introduce new pvp modes and WvW updates.

It better be…