Guild Wars 2

Move ability 3 to 2, with 2’s timer.
Make supply drop the new 3.

Edit: increase 1’s damage with at least 2 conditions.
Side note: Use current 2’s pull to replace rifle 4, no more self KDown.

This month’s winner of the best post award. Supply drops everywhere.

Kalan.9705:

Move ability 3 to 2, with 2’s timer.

This ^
We can’t run. We can’t hide. But we’re good at blowing stuff up.

Kalan.9705:

Make supply drop the new 3.

Fun . . . but seriously OP.
Now dropping a single turret with a short life, that could be useful.

Which reminds me: ANet, when are you going to replace the useless Always Prepared downed trait with one that might actually be useful to take.

Kalan.9705:

Move ability 3 to 2, with 2’s timer.
Make supply drop the new 3.

^ I like this.
Supply Crate would never happen.
Maybe Emergency Supply drop:
Randomly drop a single turret that is Overcharged

That is prolly more something Anet would go for.
RNG = Better players.

Zenguy.6421:

Which reminds me: ANet, when are you going to replace the useless Always Prepared downed trait with one that might actually be useful to take.

Yes. If it won’t change for something better then I would rather just have it replaced with dropping a mortar, just to make engies deaths more brighter. Not like anyone ever picks up what engies drop anyways

Zenguy.6421:

Kalan.9705:

Move ability 3 to 2, with 2’s timer.

This ^
We can’t run. We can’t hide. But we’re good at blowing stuff up.

Kalan.9705:

Make supply drop the new 3.

Fun . . . but seriously OP.
Now dropping a single turret with a short life, that could be useful.

Which reminds me: ANet, when are you going to replace the useless Always Prepared downed trait with one that might actually be useful to take.

More OP than ranger downed #3, which is basically “blow a stun or its a free res, even 1v3”?

The massively long timer means one barely ever gets to use 3. Even if that wasn’t true, supply drop is still not going to do as much to save a downed engineer as most classes much more powerful 3 ability. The turrets evaporate to any passing breeze and if they do even manage to get one shot off it is usually wasted on a target that it’s out of sight or range or just plain irrelevant.

well lets assume an Engineer is downed next to a downed warrior guess who kills who and runs away like nothing happened.

Maybe weird, but, aren’t downed skills ment to be a bit useless?
Like: “agh! I’m down! Here let me grab this …. Loaf of bread to give you one more slap!”

But still.. The CD is just too long on skill 2. 3 is arguable aswell, it’s a nice finisher interupt in PvP and WvW, but why would you want to pull something that’s trying to killing you, near you?

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

Maybe weird, but, aren’t downed skills ment to be a bit useless?

This logic only seems to apply to Engineers.

The damage of a downed Engineer is 1/2 – 1/3th of that of other professions. Giving 700 crits and taking 2.1k back…. yeah.

And nothing to really delay getting finished off. Your Grapling Line fails against stability, blinds, blocks, stealth, LoS (hiding behind a pet) and at a certain spot it also fails to pull and interupt something.

Professions are pretty much seperated into two catagories. Those who can heal while downed (Guardian, Ranger, Necro) and those who can move after downed (Thief, Ele, Mesmer, Warrior).
And Engineer is the exception to this. Who cant do either.

No counter for engineers being stealth spiked. We can’t use explosive charge (timer 20 secs) before we get spiked and if there are no NPC mobs or low target players in the area all we have is our single heal ability.

Single channeled heal vs Stealth Spiked = lose every time

Terrahero.9358:

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

Maybe weird, but, aren’t downed skills ment to be a bit useless?

This logic only seems to apply to Engineers.

The damage of a downed Engineer is 1/2 – 1/3th of that of other professions. Giving 700 crits and taking 2.1k back…. yeah.

And nothing to really delay getting finished off. Your Grapling Line fails against stability, blinds, blocks, stealth, LoS (hiding behind a pet) and at a certain spot it also fails to pull and interupt something.

Professions are pretty much seperated into two catagories. Those who can heal while downed (Guardian, Ranger, Necro) and those who can move after downed (Thief, Ele, Mesmer, Warrior).
And Engineer is the exception to this. Who cant do either.

True story, we really got the shaft on downed abilities. We do poor damage, can’t escape, and have a relatively long cast time on our #1 stomp stopper which pulls enemies to us – because thats what every downed person wants…more people to stomp them lol

The worst part is that Anet decided to add this FPS mechanic to an RPG game and yet they left out all the improvements and tweaks those FPS games made to the same mechanic.

Most FPS games that have medics i.e. Healing dead or downed ppl will still reward ppl for getting those enemies TOO the dead or downed state. In GW2 you only get rewarded for finishing ppl off.
This makes the downed state mechanics THAT much more important, ppl will constantly suicide themselves trying to finish someone off because they want to earn the credit they deserve for basically beating them.
So this makes the classes with crappy downed state skills a bigger kill priority. I almost always get focused as an Engineer and we are Thieves favorite gank food because if a Thief gets you down you are getting spiked.

So imo Anet added a bad mechanic that doesnt fit within this genre and then they made it even worse by having the different downed skill horribly imbalanced.

I mean come on if you down an Ele anywhere near a door that Ele will get away almost 100% of the time. That seems like a fair thing for the AOE nuke profession to have right? No risk for jumping down and bombing attackers because their downed skill.

We should get a Megazord on downstate 2 that uninstalls the game of anyone who tries to down you.

I would like 3 moved to 2. Then maybe make the new three “Break Elixir.” Since Engineer is heavy on the RNG it would either make you invisible, turn you tiny and mobile like elixir S, or make a form of toss elixir R at your location.

Terrahero.9358:

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

Maybe weird, but, aren’t downed skills ment to be a bit useless?

This logic only seems to apply to Engineers.

The damage of a downed Engineer is 1/2 – 1/3th of that of other professions. Giving 700 crits and taking 2.1k back…. yeah.

And nothing to really delay getting finished off. Your Grapling Line fails against stability, blinds, blocks, stealth, LoS (hiding behind a pet) and at a certain spot it also fails to pull and interupt something.

Professions are pretty much seperated into two catagories. Those who can heal while downed (Guardian, Ranger, Necro) and those who can move after downed (Thief, Ele, Mesmer, Warrior).
And Engineer is the exception to this. Who cant do either.

I think downs are pretty related to each class. If you take a step back, Engineers is the only class with two cc down skill.

The #1 down skills seems to be a condition based attack, while the power based one attack lays with #3. If a player is downed, or mob, near enough to me so I can get off #3, I can usually rally off of them because of the damage of #3.

Stability/stealth stomp gets pretty much everyone depending on the situation and warrior’s vengeance gets pretty much every class, even other warriors.

Number 3 moving to number 2 would be nice. Number 3 then becomes a random Toss Elixir Skill like someone mentioned above.

You either get Toss Elixir R, Toss Elixir U (Smoke Screen), or Toss Elixir S (Stealth). Because, you know. ARENANET AND THEIR DARN RNG!!!

Don’t expect to see any substantial improvements, since we, as a class, are paying the unique versatility tax. For the elementalist being the superior versatility class.

But perhaps we can get our toons, when using (2) Grappling Line, cry something like come here and stomp me already for the gods’ sakes!

I agree with needing to change Always Prepared.

If someone doesn’t have EG or FT in their skill slots, they really don’t want to use them. The ones that already use them don’t need them. This makes Always Prepared’s main use pretty much useless. Perhaps Always Prepared could give us . . . . I dunno . . a set of aoe proximity mines instead of a FT or an EG drop. THAT would be more helpful.

Like Zenguy said, a single turret drop (with a knock back, of course) would be useful for one of our downed states.

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

Maybe weird, but, aren’t downed skills ment to be a bit useless?
Like: “agh! I’m down! Here let me grab this …. Loaf of bread to give you one more slap!”

But still.. The CD is just too long on skill 2. 3 is arguable aswell, it’s a nice finisher interupt in PvP and WvW, but why would you want to pull something that’s trying to killing you, near you?

Thank you for saving this miserable morning at work with a good laugh. I lost it at the image of slapping a Charr with a loaf of bread in WvW and making him weep.

I have used #3 downed skill well exactly once when I was downed next to a cliff in WvW. It just so happened that a mesmer was standing with their back facing the drop. A quick pull with #2, followed with #3 and a free rally once gravity had done it’s simulated work.

Single turrets are currently so weak, and the timer on our 3 is just so kitten long I almost never use engy downed 3 but regularly use other classes down 3 skill. So a single turret just isn’t enough, unless it was some sort of specialised super turret that was worth waiting for.

Dropping an overcharged Thumper Turret could work, especially if it’s accelerant-packed.

Watch as you get Stability from Elixir S

Number 3 moving to number 2 would be nice. Number 3 then becomes a random Toss Elixir Skill like someone mentioned above.

You either get Toss Elixir R, Toss Elixir U (Smoke Screen), or Toss Elixir S (Stealth). Because, you know. ARENANET AND THEIR DARN RNG!!!

Changing our number 3 as our number 2 wouldn’t be fair. It’s like a better version

Our number 3 is really good, it’s a shame we never get to use it.

The issue with Engineer having the worse downed in the game ->

1- We have a weak number 1. Random condition with weak base damage. Why does Warrior and mesmer hit for 1k – 1.5k with auto when downed, and we hit for 300 damage? Because we have a random useless condition popping? Come on .

2- Our number 2 got every weakness available for a downed state. Single Target. Long wind up. Affected by blind, invul, stability, stealth ect. Can be blocked by anything behind us and the target (ranger pet). Bring the enemy TO US. Do weak damage (you better auto attack then grappling for damage).

3. We have the worse survivability in the same when in downed state.

Lets put it this way, here one example of each class, duelling 1on1 in a downed state duel.

Engineer vs
Warrior -> They pretty much outdamage us with throw rock, that hit really hard. Then they use vengenace and finish us.
Mesmer -> Precasted phantams still hit you. Mind blast (mesmer auto) can crit up to 1.5k damage. They use invis to delay our dps, and get 1-2 extra attack in. They cast rogue, which hit for 5-6k average. We are dead. I happen to fight a lot mesmer in 1on1 downed (there downed stats is so strong, they do more damage to me in downed then alive). And each timne I lost. Every freaking time. Even if they have half downed HP when I get downed.
Thief -> This fight isn’t that bad, tho they have the upper hand because of invis, getting 1-2 extra ttack each time.
Ranger -> Pet damage + Pet heal = They win pretty much any match up.
Guardian -> Once the healing kick in, we are done.
Necromancer -> The auto attack hit hard, and life steal. So they got use right there, if the #3 proc, you are even more dead.
Elem Pretty even fight, but they just walk away if they lose.

Engineer are pretty much out of it when it comes to downed state.

Good summary of 1v1 in downed Kardiamond.

Elementalist downed state was released as rubbish, and got fixed quite quickly, half a year later engineeer downed state is still being ignored.

I really like the megazord idea or maybe 3 skill= ironman suit
but seriously our downed skills are pitiful

2 more patches come and gone with zero attention to engineer downed skills. We don’t appear able to get heard by the devs on this issue.

I tried making a thread about this issue as well, but to my surprise more people were okay with the downskills being the way they were. O.o..

I agree, i want to see a change, i want some mobility or healing kitten it!

Our downed state is pretty terrible.

I would say move 3 to 2… reduce the dmg on it a bit and perhaps make it one of the longer cool down 2s. (not still terrible… just not op. It should not be hard to balance that with a cool down and a dmg reduction)

Make our #3 something like the ranger lick wounds. Have it drop us a Rez turret/probe… give it just enough HPs to save us unless someone targets it fast enough.

That would feel much more engi like to me… force people to back off to avoid our short range bombs… and at the same time force melee at least to come into range to destroy our rez turret.

I’d have prefered something like a massive knockback like Rocket Boots instead of our current 2.

If you want a buff: just give burning to Booby Trap. Engineer downed is fine as it is. It’s like you people expect yourselves not to be punished for losing.

Swagg.9236:

If you want a buff: just give burning to Booby Trap. Engineer downed is fine as it is. It’s like you people expect yourselves not to be punished for losing.

Yeah its like they expect to be on equal footing with other classes in one of the most important parts of pvp!

LOL!

What on earth are they smoking?

miriforst.1290:

Swagg.9236:

If you want a buff: just give burning to Booby Trap. Engineer downed is fine as it is. It’s like you people expect yourselves not to be punished for losing.

Yeah its like they expect to be on equal footing with other classes in one of the most important parts of pvp!

miriforst.1290:

one of the most important parts of pvp!

wat
Look, you went down. You pretty much deserve to die. The opening exchanges of a fight is typically where much of the proceeding action is determined. If someone bested you, it should be up to a teammate to get you up. It shouldn’t be you somehow turning the fight around after someone beat you. That doesn’t make sense.

Besides, look at Toss Elixir R and tell me that that isn’t silly good.

Swagg.9236:

wat
Look, you went down. You pretty much deserve to die. The opening exchanges of a fight is typically where much of the proceeding action is determined. If someone bested you, it should be up to a teammate to get you up. It shouldn’t be you somehow turning the fight around after someone beat you. That doesn’t make sense.

Besides, look at Toss Elixir R and tell me that that isn’t silly good.

Well I think you are playing perhaps another game… cause this one has downed state mechanics. Have you been beaten when your downed… no.

Does every other class have a better tool kit to turn things around in there favor… yes.

I will say we have some of the best options in trait wise for buffs when our health gets low… still in pvp yes the downed state is a big part of the game. For the engi in general when you are downed… yes. You are dead.

For every other class… 50/50 but in general not unless they are focuses/tag teamed… or make a second mistake. (going down being the first one)

Swagg.9236:

miriforst.1290:

Swagg.9236:

If you want a buff: just give burning to Booby Trap. Engineer downed is fine as it is. It’s like you people expect yourselves not to be punished for losing.

Yeah its like they expect to be on equal footing with other classes in one of the most important parts of pvp!

miriforst.1290:

one of the most important parts of pvp!

wat
Look, you went down. You pretty much deserve to die. The opening exchanges of a fight is typically where much of the proceeding action is determined. If someone bested you, it should be up to a teammate to get you up. It shouldn’t be you somehow turning the fight around after someone beat you. That doesn’t make sense.

Besides, look at Toss Elixir R and tell me that that isn’t silly good.

I’ve used R, but i find it a bit overrated (it helps, but it is in no way a get out of jail card), and for a stunbreak id rather bring S anyways to stomp the inferior downed staters (those that cant be finished off in one go by blind, block, stability, Los, invuln and so on like those poor, poor elementalists, mesmers and thieves (okay ill be honest, thieves usually dies anyways due to the extreme glassiness they tend to go for, but at least they get something back). Finishing an enemy is everything in a teamfight (team game) and being able to stomp the engi or any other single target rupt prof is essentially an instant elixir R for the entire team. So your team finally get rid of the ele? Sorry, he can either choose to move on top of the point to contest it longer, map to his backline for a quick rez or get that little guaranteed extra time to rally from your engineer who is either being finished by someone in stealth, in a blinding field, in a chaos storm (aegis), near a guardian (aegis, blind) or finished by someone with stability, a mesmer (guaranteed invuln) or other prof with invuln stomp (ele, warrior, engineer (ironically)), someone with stealth (mesmer, thief, smoke combo) or someone with a pet (mesmer(see a pattern?), ranger and sometimes a necro) or just someone with a buddy. And if we want a revive skill for our teamates, thats why we got a mesmer to bring his illusion of life no? Ok i get that you mean that downed should mean that you are about to die, but so far there are a lot of professions that does not follow the pattern we got. And those eles and mesmers are hardly in a bad spot in the meta.

And of course, even if you aren’t in the teamfight there will be the occasional situation where you are at low health when you downed the player you are dueling and the conditions for example combined with their more powerful downed state brings you down. Now that elixir R actually comes in handy should you have a slot open for it, and should it be off recharge. But is the engineers downed state balanced around the fact that he can revive himself if he brought one skill? If not aren’t you supposed to win if you downed him first considering that he “pretty much deserve to die”? Should all revive slower because the mesmer can use his quickness field to speed up revives/stomps? Would builds running around oneshotting everyone except bunkers be ok because they counter bunkers?

As for wvwvw it can be even worse. Try to kill that elementalist within 1200 range of his keep/tower/party. Now try killing an engineer in the same situation. Which one is the hardest to down? Which one is the easiest to stomp? In a organized battle a single stomp can rally a half dozen players. Our inability to even counter the fact that that rangers pet is standing on top of us while being finished by its ranger can mean the battle is lost. Looking at for example the fight between FURY and JDGE, look at the professions that can in most cases guarantee a stomp survive long anough to be rallied by some other poor bugger getting stomped.

We are not the only one with these problems but while other professions summon demons from the nether-realm to tear you apart, or hurl hammers and rocks, we throw empty soda cans interrupted by the occasional grappling hook in a last ditch effort from us to make them actually honor us by stomping our sad kitten into the ground, and boy does that hurt!

They need to standardize this one way or another, but being handed the finger while not exactly being the one in most need of that is kind of insulting

Kalan.9705:

Elementalist downed state was released as rubbish, and got fixed quite quickly, half a year later engineeer downed state is still being ignored.

It didn’t get fixed. It was broken before in the sense that it was useless, and it’s broken now in the sense that it’s too powerful. All they had to do was add an interrupt to their #2 skill like all the other classes had, but they decided to give them a license to be suicidal. Now their #3 downed skill might as well not even exist.

In regards to engineer, I just wish our #2 wind up wasn’t so kitten long. It’s just as bad as the warrior hammer toss wind up… only one who has it worse is the necro with that fear wind up (they have to almost start casting #2 the moment someone starts the stomp animation).

Move #3 bomb -> #2 with #2’s cooldown
Make the pull an aoe pull

Now we can blow more stuff up more often

I think each downed state profession should have some sort of theme and while they should be generally not that threatening with their #1, the #2 should be moderately threatening and #3 should be an actual threat. There are a few classes that should probably have this look over, but I’d agree the Engineer is one of the ones that need it. The Thief is hard to down, the Warrior gets back up, the Ele repositions very well, etc.

I honestly think our theme should just be high damage on the #2 and #3 skills. Add bleeding, burning, and some more direct damage to them. Maybe the #2 or #3 could bounce your body around or something too, but I really don’t think it’s that needed. It should be dangerous to allow an Engineer to get to that #3 due to the threat of the damage. #2 could also be an AoE cone like effect too, but I’d rather it just be a threatening attack to mix with a theme of dangerous Engineer cooldowns while downed.

The downed state for an engineer is arguably the worst in the game.

I can complain about a lot of little things concerning an engineer, but the engineer down state is in dire need of an overhaul.

Downed is almost certainly instant death. None of the downed skills are really useful.

For me, the real issue is the number 2 downstate ability.. I feel like it doesn’t fit the down state at all.. I mean if I was down I wouldn’t pull you closer to me.

What if 2 had something to do with elixir type function..

Example:
You drink a expired Elixir S bottle
~same stats as Elixir S, but you return to a downstate when done

Or some other fun new Elixir..
~turns you into stone
~makes you a plant that shoots out thorns
~grow an extra arm that lets you toss an extra stone for downstate 1 with a hit chance of 33%, also reduces damage by 10% per stack.. can stack 3 times.

1. Increase damage

I’ve been playing with a Mesmer and sometimes it’s better to be downed because I can pew pew mobs with confusion and watch them rally me over and over.

2. Change to Rocket Boots

We don’t get to choose where we go and we don’t enter stealth so a bit of damage and knock back is good.

3. Reduce cool down

The only time I get to use this skill is when there’s nothing nearby me.

I remember the first time I hit the 3 downed skill, shocked the hell out of me how good it was. Too bad it takes so long though. If I’m swarmed by mobs there’s no time to get it off.

Please God do something with Downed 3…. I NEVER get to use it, unless I’m completely ignored for a long kitten time… Isn’t it the same as the Guardian ability except theirs is insta use? Thanks Anet… Oh but I can pull the guy wanting to finish me off to me? That should save him some time, thanks

The down state abilities -used- to tie into well with what we were. Kings of hard CC and the middle field. However, we have been nerfed with our CC so many times, I don’t think I would be surprised if the Flamethrower Airblast got nerfed to shoot confetti at the opponent instead of air.

BRING BACK ENGINEER CONTROL!

I love engi downed state.

Can’t let this drop off, Engi downstate is the worst in the game by a large margin. Our current downstate 2 hardly ever works, everyone uses stability or stealth before stomping these days anyway.

Our 1 damage is a joke and 3 is on such a long timer we never get to use it.

Kalan.9705:

Move ability 3 to 2, with 2’s timer.
Make supply drop the new 3.

Edit: increase 1’s damage with at least 2 conditions.
Side note: Use current 2’s pull to replace rifle 4, no more self KDown.

9 months with rubbish downed skills. Elementalist was fixed in a few weeks.

Like the OP said, move 3 to 2, with 2’s timer…

But then make 3 a rezzing turret.. and boom, we’re in that “can heal after downed” group.

Or 3 as an elixir that will make you uninterruptible, and thus able to keep the rez channel from 4 going.

Just a thought.

Kalan.9705:

Kalan.9705:

Move ability 3 to 2, with 2’s timer.
Make supply drop the new 3.

Edit: increase 1’s damage with at least 2 conditions.
Side note: Use current 2’s pull to replace rifle 4, no more self KDown.

9 months with rubbish downed skills. Elementalist was fixed in a few weeks.

The reason they “fixed” eles state was because they used to have the worst down state in that they could not do anything at all to prevent a stomp, whereas other classes could at least attempt an interrupt on at least one person. I think it was fair to expect a change here.

However, instead of just granting them an interrupt to their #2 skill, they just swapped their skills, making their #2 asininely overpowered and their #3 so useless they might as well have just deleted it from the game completely.

How that made sense? I dunno… I guess it was just the quickest fix. Honestly, they don’t really care too much about downed state abilities. Not that I blame them, there’s a ton of other stuff that takes priority. Either that or they just haven’t come to a good decision on what to do with them yet, or they might have a broader rework planned for some point.

Remove current #3 and add fireworks with no cooldown.

Since #3 is so useless due to the long cooldown, how about this change? At least we have a cheerful death.