Guild Wars 2

Seriously? from 400 to under 200? Are you insane? In no ways was healing with elixir gun too powerful in pvp, you could easily burst that down. And now you’ve gone and made the elixir gun next to worthless.

What the heck is WRONG with your class designers… Get a grip.

huge nerf against kit engineer…now we have 0 chance against any condition class

Nerf? That was a FIX. FYI elixir gun’s super elixir heals for 400 initial pulse and 150+ for the following pulses originally.

They should buff it and return it to at least 300 per pulse.

Right, it’s not exactly accurate to call this a “nerf.” I’m not saying the devs handled this patch very well overall for engineers, but this would fall under the “bug fix” category. Now, if we could only get some bug fixes for the stuff that doesn’t work…

Yeah it was a fix… but somehow it felt like a viable heal finally though. ^^
Like what could have been… the more meh it feels now they fixed it.

One of the previous patches broke Super Elixir and gave it the big heal on every pulse, not just on the impact. Now that has been fixed.

Yeah it was good while it lasted, but we all knew a fix would be coming eventually. Except maybe those who first tried their hand at engineering after this bug was introduced. To those, this fix may indeed feel like a harsh nerf.

I enjoyed the bug while it lasted. In case some of you aren’t aware, there have been discussion on other threads about how the Engineer was too tough when spec’ed as a bunker.

The bunker engineer was pretty good at frustrating new players in tournaments because of the bug, so I’m not denying it needed attention. However, even before the fix, guardians were better point-holders. Guess every team needs to keep bringing a guardian.

I would say the “bug” in it’s self was a “fix” much needed. This is just became another disappointment.

There are soooooooo many other things we’ve had to deal with since launch that they still haven’t touched….smh

I really did love this ability in its broken form, I do believe that how it should have been. Heck I’d even be happy if they left it broken and made it so it would only heal you. They break so many things each patch but they make sUre the engineer doesn’t have anything good for long. I think this is it for my engineer days, and the saddest part is not because I don’t want to play them anymore. The reason is because the isn’t anything else I have left to turn to in order to be viable in pvp…..nothing comes close to what we lost in the last 2 pvp updates

In “fixing” this, they basically took away yet another support tool in our so-called versatile repertoire. Even with kit refinement, 2 ticks of 170 healing is nothing. If they were going to “fix” it, perhaps they should have also buffed the correct numbers up a little, recognizing that the old healing numbers weren’t enough.

The thing is, you shouldn’t NEED kit refinement just for this skill to be usable. Super Elixir, all on it’s own, should be a decent heal. Ticks of 170 aren’t very good at all.

To put it in perspective, Super Elixir now heals for just under half of the staff Ele’s Healing Rain. Now, these abilities are not otherwise identical, but under half? That’s unacceptable. Simply put, a heal needs to heal. It needs to be noticeable, or it’s useless. At this point, I’d almost rather Super Elixir cure more conditions, and take the heal off of it altogether.

-Travail.

You see ANet? You screwed up now. Better find another solution.

They’ve said they have the ability to balance PvP and PvE skills separately. They need to do that already instead of destroying PvE usefulness in the name of fixing PvP imbalances.

This thread needs more numbers.

Regeneration: 130 base heal/second w/ .125 coefficient.
Super Elixir: 140 base heal/second w/ .1 coefficient + 380 base impact heal w/ .2 coefficient.

@1,040 healing (full healing gear, jewelry, & runes, plus 200 from traits—does not include weapon stats for the obvious reason)…

Regeneration: 260/sec
Super Elixir: 244/sec + 588 impact heal

… over 10 seconds…

Regeneration: 2600 healed
Super Elixir: 3028 healed (assuming subject(s) stayed in the zone the WHOLE time)

The fact that SE is a zone people have to stay in to receive the heal is the biggest issue with the ability. On the other hand, it does open up some (comparatively minor) benefit in that allies can enter the zone after the fact to receive (some) healing. Possibly more importantly, there are some situations where movement is either already restricted (bunker) or the need to move is more predictable (dungeons).

I think SE remains approximately as viable for group healing as the ability to provide group regeneration. With Kit Refinement, SE is comparable (not too unfavorably) to permanent group regeneration. It has the drawback of being a zone, but the benefit of stacking with both regeneration applied by others (if that happens) and itself (if that happens). It is also about as good for burst healing as regeneration, which is to say not very.

I still like it, and remember that it’s only 1 of 6 abilities granted by taking the EG; it isn’t entirely reasonable to expect one ability to carry the whole kit.

Townoplis pretty much nailed it! It was a bug fix, and the bug had made SE overpowered, it was fun while it lasted, but the fix was coming!

Still, it wouldve been nice if ANet increased the +healing coefficient a bit to allow +healing builds to provide some nice off-healing instead of giving every engie the ability to heal decently. I don’t think this would impact PvP in a ridiculous way like it would have in GW1 where some players so heavily bunker built that they were practically impossible to DPS down for players who didnt know the ‘tricks’ to do so.

Townopolis.3607:

This thread needs more numbers.

Regeneration: 130 base heal/second w/ .125 coefficient.
Super Elixir: 140 base heal/second w/ .1 coefficient + 380 base impact heal w/ .2 coefficient.

@1,040 healing (full healing gear, jewelry, & runes, plus 200 from traits—does not include weapon stats for the obvious reason)…

Regeneration: 260/sec
Super Elixir: 244/sec + 588 impact heal

… over 10 seconds…

Regeneration: 2600 healed
Super Elixir: 3028 healed (assuming subject(s) stayed in the zone the WHOLE time)

The fact that SE is a zone people have to stay in to receive the heal is the biggest issue with the ability. On the other hand, it does open up some (comparatively minor) benefit in that allies can enter the zone after the fact to receive (some) healing. Possibly more importantly, there are some situations where movement is either already restricted (bunker) or the need to move is more predictable (dungeons).

I think SE remains approximately as viable for group healing as the ability to provide group regeneration. With Kit Refinement, SE is comparable (not too unfavorably) to permanent group regeneration. It has the drawback of being a zone, but the benefit of stacking with both regeneration applied by others (if that happens) and itself (if that happens). It is also about as good for burst healing as regeneration, which is to say not very.

I still like it, and remember that it’s only 1 of 6 abilities granted by taking the EG; it isn’t entirely reasonable to expect one ability to carry the whole kit.

Problem is, Healing stat is crap and you’re probably better off investing in other stats than Healing.

Kyon.9735:

Problem is, Healing stat is crap and you’re probably better off investing in other stats than Healing.

SE compares more favorably against regeneration at lower healing power amounts as it has higher base healing and a lower total coefficient.

If people find healing to be relatively useless as compared to just investing in damage, I’m not going to argue. I’ve managed to make group healing work for myself, but I’m aware that’s partly because that’s what I find fun and engaging. What I will argue is that SE still stands up when compared to other forms of group healing.

Townopolis.3607:

Kyon.9735:

Problem is, Healing stat is crap and you’re probably better off investing in other stats than Healing.

SE compares more favorably against regeneration at lower healing power levels as it has higher base healing and a lower total coefficient.

If people find healing to be relatively useless as compared to just investing in damage, I’m not going to argue. I’ve managed to make group healing work for myself, but I’m aware that’s partly because that’s what I find fun and engaging. What I will argue is that SE still stands up when compared to other forms of group healing.

Actually, I’m not disagreeing with you about how SE is useful pre-patch and post-patch. Been an engineer since day 1 w/ 500+ hrs playing time. What I’m trying to say is that I’ve experienced SE all changes and after experiencing the “bugged” SE, it’s just too hard to accept the 50% plus healing rate reduction. Bugged SE heals at for at least 400 with out healing stat then we have Kit Refinement to double it. Post-patch we have to overhaul healing equipment just to reach the same results, not even near though. What I’m trying to say is that it’s incomparable to the former SE, and now we have to stack on healing equipment just to meet the former healing power.

Just wait a bit, they’re gonna remove the condition cleansing after that as it’s not written in the tooltip so they can “fix” it.

Kyon.9735:

Actually, I’m not disagreeing with you about how SE is useful pre-patch and post-patch. Been an engineer since day 1 w/ 500+ hrs playing time. What I’m trying to say is that I’ve experienced SE all changes and after experiencing the “bugged” SE, it’s just too hard to accept the 50% plus healing rate reduction. Bugged SE heals at for at least 400 with out healing stat then we have Kit Refinement to double it. Post-patch we have to overhaul healing equipment just to reach the same results, not even near though. What I’m trying to say is that it’s incomparable to the former SE, and now we have to stack on healing equipment just to meet the former healing power.

I get where your coming from, but the fact is, SE in it’s bugged form was OP. The amount of healing it spitted out was simply way over the top, which I used a lot in my sPvP bunker spec to great happiness, but it simply wasn’t balanced that it could heal for that much! And if you want that much healing power as it gave, of cause you then gotta take gear with +Healing, it made no sense I could heal for these amount’s in my Soldier or Berserker gear while other classes had to spent large amount of traits and stats to get it! It’s fun to be OP for sometime, but sooner or later things getting fixed, and that’s only fair (Note: I don’t know the situation in PvE, since I don’t do this much, so I might be wrong on some classes is easy able to heal as well in PvE ect.)

@Amadeus

It should be like Pietoro said, devs are able to split skills into PvP and PvE versions and that’s the only valid balancing option

In PvP base heal slightly higher than now, after fix or decent healing power scaling. This way engineer could throw some nice healing if traited (kit refinement) or geared for healing, obviously sacrificing some offensive stats

In PvE we’re not fighting few players like in PvP, we’re facing waves of strong dungeon monsters or huge zergs in WvW. That’s why they should leave either bugged version, or modify it to provide a bit less base healing, but scale well with healing power. PvE will always be based on much bigger numbers than PvP, at least in terms of damage, so healing should also be improved (not only by means of WvW % buff)

Honestly i feel that Anet could buff heals across the board in PvE, but leave it as is in PvP. Anet seems to have a vendetta against bunkers in sPvP that ends up making anything but perma-swiftness glass cannons pointless in PvE.

It’s funny that the only bug they fix in the kits is one that made the kit useful instead of fix the useless ones.

Orissa.1872:

@Amadeus

It should be like Pietoro said, devs are able to split skills into PvP and PvE versions and that’s the only valid balancing option

In PvP base heal slightly higher than now, after fix or decent healing power scaling. This way engineer could throw some nice healing if traited (kit refinement) or geared for healing, obviously sacrificing some offensive stats

In PvE we’re not fighting few players like in PvP, we’re facing waves of strong dungeon monsters or huge zergs in WvW. That’s why they should leave either bugged version, or modify it to provide a bit less base healing, but scale well with healing power. PvE will always be based on much bigger numbers than PvP, at least in terms of damage, so healing should also be improved (not only by means of WvW % buff)

I would be cool with them splitting it up in PvE and PvP, but in WvsW that Super Elixir was simply to strong as well when you met people 1vs1, or even 1vs2! Heck, a small group of players could probably have used, or did use, it to great effect while it did heal for that much. It’s not fair I have a heal that spam able, that’s AoE, and heal for that much in any sort of PvP encounter! But I’m all in for giving PvE players buff’s if they are needed

digiowl.9620:

Honestly i feel that Anet could buff heals across the board in PvE, but leave it as is in PvP. Anet seems to have a vendetta against bunkers in sPvP that ends up making anything but perma-swiftness glass cannons pointless in PvE.

Bunkers were fairly abusive in low-level PvP in GW1 because of how unkillable they were, so I can see why ANet would have a vendetta against bunkering/healing. I do think that it really makes healing a ‘not worth it’ stat unless you’re willing to sacrifice a lot of a stat to gain only a modest boost to healing. That said, most bunker builds in GW2 are high vit/tough builds that are kitted with survival skills (reflects, knockbacks, etc) — self heal is not even really a factor. I think ANet could modestly bump up healing coefficients along the board (especially ‘other person heal’ skills) without having a negative impact on the game.

And that may be Anet’s real problem. They made WvW conceptually linked to PvE proper, and so can’t seem to make things act differently there vs the rest of PvE. I suspect they didn’t anticipate that WvW would be the huge PvP thing while their sPvP slowly withers away…

Heals need improved across the board for all classes in PVE, most of it is simply pathetic!

it was bugged and got fixed

But i cant really see why they had this priority number 1 on this bug fix list and not Other things that could help engineer

oh well they are —-———

It would have been nice for them to tell us super elixir was broken so that we don’t grind gear to build around it.
If it was broken I would have invested time and gold somewhere else.

Well the heal you received (pulse one) wasn’t matching the one on the tooltip at all, it was the same as the impact heal. The problem is, there are so many tooltip inaccuracies that if you were new to engineer (like me for example) and didn’t know how the skill behaved before, you could be mistaken about it and think it was normal behavior.
Ah well, it’s true that it was healing a lot. If they could make it a water field, we could get back some aoe heal from it with a blast finisher, could be nice.

Townopolis.3607:

This thread needs more numbers.

Regeneration: 130 base heal/second w/ .125 coefficient.
Super Elixir: 140 base heal/second w/ .1 coefficient + 380 base impact heal w/ .2 coefficient.

@1,040 healing (full healing gear, jewelry, & runes, plus 200 from traits—does not include weapon stats for the obvious reason)…

Regeneration: 260/sec
Super Elixir: 244/sec + 588 impact heal

… over 10 seconds…

Regeneration: 2600 healed
Super Elixir: 3028 healed (assuming subject(s) stayed in the zone the WHOLE time)

The fact that SE is a zone people have to stay in to receive the heal is the biggest issue with the ability. On the other hand, it does open up some (comparatively minor) benefit in that allies can enter the zone after the fact to receive (some) healing. Possibly more importantly, there are some situations where movement is either already restricted (bunker) or the need to move is more predictable (dungeons).

I think SE remains approximately as viable for group healing as the ability to provide group regeneration. With Kit Refinement, SE is comparable (not too unfavorably) to permanent group regeneration. It has the drawback of being a zone, but the benefit of stacking with both regeneration applied by others (if that happens) and itself (if that happens). It is also about as good for burst healing as regeneration, which is to say not very.

I still like it, and remember that it’s only 1 of 6 abilities granted by taking the EG; it isn’t entirely reasonable to expect one ability to carry the whole kit.

Lets get some more numbers in here then. Similar group heals, using that 1040 number: (not a comprehensive list)

Water Blast:Ele staff 1
370+.1 scaling:
470 HP AOE heals at range every 1.3 seconds.

Geyser: Ele staff 3
808 base +.25 scaling with 3 second duration: (3 ticks)
3204 HP over 3 seconds.

Cleansing wave: Ele Dagger 5
1302 base + 1 scaling
2342 HP burst heal with 40s cd AND/OR after dodge (if traited) with a 10s cd

Vigorous shouts: Warrior Trait:
40+((Level^2) x 0.18) + (Healing x 0.8)
1984 burst per shout. (Shout with lowest untraited cooldown is 25s, 20s if traited)

Shadow Refuge: Thief Utility:
355+.18 scaling over 5 ticks
2711 HP over 4 seconds.

Now…

’’SuperBroken’’ elixir:
380+.2 scaling over 10 seconds:
5880 HP over 10 seconds.

Sure, Super Elixir LOOKS good over 10 seconds, but…
A: you’re restricted to one area for 10 seconds
B: this kind of healing is still only in line with the other classes’ healing per second at that level.
C: Other classes get weapon stats with their weapons

Again, these are group heals.

What they should have done is fix the bug, but increase the coefficient so that it is possible to see similar numbers to what we were seeing before, provided you invest heavily into the healing stat. It needed a small nerf, and needed to be fixed so that not every build could take advantage of such strong healing. This “fix” went too far, though.

-Travail.

Those are all good points. I’ll even add that, while getting weapon stats on kits is in the works, it will likely accompany a rebalancing of said kits (most likely in the form of a nerf to base magnitudes).

Now, it isn’t guaranteed that SE will have its base healing or coefficient reduced when weapon stats on kits is implemented, but I would anticipate that being the case.

Zero Angel.9715:

digiowl.9620:

Honestly i feel that Anet could buff heals across the board in PvE, but leave it as is in PvP. Anet seems to have a vendetta against bunkers in sPvP that ends up making anything but perma-swiftness glass cannons pointless in PvE.

Bunkers were fairly abusive in low-level PvP in GW1 because of how unkillable they were, so I can see why ANet would have a vendetta against bunkering/healing. I do think that it really makes healing a ‘not worth it’ stat unless you’re willing to sacrifice a lot of a stat to gain only a modest boost to healing. That said, most bunker builds in GW2 are high vit/tough builds that are kitted with survival skills (reflects, knockbacks, etc) — self heal is not even really a factor. I think ANet could modestly bump up healing coefficients along the board (especially ‘other person heal’ skills) without having a negative impact on the game.

I agree. They could make healing more powerful for those players who invest in the healing stat, while leaving it as-is for players who choose not to invest in that stat, and the game would be better for it. Allowing players a little more specialization in the healing role will not destroy guild wars, nor will it lock us into some hard trinity. It will make playing a support role more fun, though, and perhaps allow us to build a support spec that doesn’t also have to bring dps to the table.

-Travail.

It’s a little off-topic, but I think that we should bear in mind that support builds will, at a certain skill level, still need to provide offensive abilities. This is because groups of skilled players require less healing, condition removal, and “oh kitten” abilities to comfortably clear a dungeon. Thus, investing exclusively or too heavily in defensive support will, eventually, end up dragging your group down.

The only alternative to the above being true is to make support classes required for successful dungeon runs, which we all know Anet is against.

Luckily, offensive contribution can be achieved via boons (might & fury) and conditions (vulnerability), so it isn’t all bleak for people who want to play full support.

I would certainly like to see “full support” be made a viable build theme in Guild Wars. So far, I don’t really see what’s so great about a lack of trinity. Dungeons have basically become DPS races, where other players expect you to provide enough DPS to finish the dungeon quickly. In my opinion, this hampers players more than it offers them freedom of choice.

There are plenty of groups out there who run 5 dps, because that’s the fastest way to clear dungeons. If 4 players within a group are skilled, then they will be forced to carry the 5th if that person is not also specced primarily for dps.

Compare this to a game like TERA. Although it is also a “skill-based” game (arguably much moreso than GW2, seeing as how there is still tab targeting here), but tanks and healers are still necessary components to the group. A system like that offers a place for players who don’t want to play DPS. Guild Wars really only offers that in the form of “bunker” builds in PvP. In PvE, it will always be better to run 5 dps, assuming each of those players is skilled.

At least, that’s my observations up to this point.

-Travail.

Amadeus.5687:

Orissa.1872:

@Amadeus

It should be like Pietoro said, devs are able to split skills into PvP and PvE versions and that’s the only valid balancing option

In PvP base heal slightly higher than now, after fix or decent healing power scaling. This way engineer could throw some nice healing if traited (kit refinement) or geared for healing, obviously sacrificing some offensive stats

In PvE we’re not fighting few players like in PvP, we’re facing waves of strong dungeon monsters or huge zergs in WvW. That’s why they should leave either bugged version, or modify it to provide a bit less base healing, but scale well with healing power. PvE will always be based on much bigger numbers than PvP, at least in terms of damage, so healing should also be improved (not only by means of WvW % buff)

I would be cool with them splitting it up in PvE and PvP, but in WvsW that Super Elixir was simply to strong as well when you met people 1vs1, or even 1vs2! Heck, a small group of players could probably have used, or did use, it to great effect while it did heal for that much. It’s not fair I have a heal that spam able, that’s AoE, and heal for that much in any sort of PvP encounter! But I’m all in for giving PvE players buff’s if they are needed

You mean like a Ele healing if traited right? My d/d ele can full heal off attument switching and using the 2 heal abilites. Granted his hps ae only 12.5K but still.

Near 100% uptime on a light field… Seems pretty amazing to me.

This Fix was coming and I knew that, I enjoyed it till it hit me. But as Kuruptz said making this priority bug is interesting. It gives a clue of Anet attitude on engineers. They possibly think that we do not have serious bugs to be fixed and we do not deserve any type of balance against other classes.

Remember that there are other factors that go into which bugs get fixed when. Part of it is how serious the bug, yes, but part of it is also how difficult it is to fix and fix cleanly. Sometimes a bug fix ends up breaking something else, which may or may not be acceptable depending on what breaks.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Near 100% uptime on a light field… Seems pretty amazing to me.

If light field removed conditions on blast and leap attacks, it would be alright. Retaliation isn’t a particularly great boon anymore, especially in PvE where mobs hit relatively slowly. Unless you’re running with classes who are shooting ranged projectiles, IMO light fields aren’t that great.

Now, if this was a water field, it would be great as-is.

-Travail.

Travail.7390:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Near 100% uptime on a light field… Seems pretty amazing to me.

If light field removed conditions on blast and leap attacks, it would be alright. Retaliation isn’t a particularly great boon anymore, especially in PvE where mobs hit relatively slowly. Unless you’re running with classes who are shooting ranged projectiles, IMO light fields aren’t that great.

Now, if this was a water field, it would be great as-is.

-Travail.

100% uptime on condition removal is pretty much amazing.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Travail.7390:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Near 100% uptime on a light field… Seems pretty amazing to me.

If light field removed conditions on blast and leap attacks, it would be alright. Retaliation isn’t a particularly great boon anymore, especially in PvE where mobs hit relatively slowly. Unless you’re running with classes who are shooting ranged projectiles, IMO light fields aren’t that great.

Now, if this was a water field, it would be great as-is.

-Travail.

100% uptime on condition removal is pretty much amazing.

Sure, but:

A: We don’t have any whirl finishers
B: Of the projectile finishers we have: Throw Wrench, Surprise Shot, Personal Battering Ram, Throw Shield. The others are 20% autoattacks on the rifle, pistol and elixir gun.
C: Fumigate is in the same kit.

It’s not quite 100% on condition removal, it’s near 100% for usage of light fields, which…

Guardians get pretty effortlessly. (nearly 1 field on any weapon they choose, can create one when downed, etc.).
The prime example is Greatsword 4, into Greatsword 5, into Greatsword 2. Dealing their damage combo and sending out two rounds of cleansing bolts nearly simultaneously.

I’m quite for the idea of changing the field type…

but they should fix Fumigate to self-cure conditions.

Daigle.8497:

-snip-

but they should fix Fumigate to self-cure conditions.

Probably a good idea, regardless. That would bring it more inline with other cone heals, like the Elementalist’s Cone of Cold, which also heals the user.

-Travail.

The e-gun nerf is enough to make me fully switch to my guardian. Engineer just feels too weak with too few options now. None of the kits are worth using long term. Grenades are still good, but I’ve always hated grenades because it is so much work to spam and aim them. E-gun nerf to 5 makes it a mostly pointless kit. Bombs still feel meh.

Yeah this patch made me quit Engi.

Daigle.8497:

Townopolis.3607:

This thread needs more numbers.

Regeneration: 130 base heal/second w/ .125 coefficient.
Super Elixir: 140 base heal/second w/ .1 coefficient + 380 base impact heal w/ .2 coefficient.

@1,040 healing (full healing gear, jewelry, & runes, plus 200 from traits—does not include weapon stats for the obvious reason)…

Regeneration: 260/sec
Super Elixir: 244/sec + 588 impact heal

… over 10 seconds…

Regeneration: 2600 healed
Super Elixir: 3028 healed (assuming subject(s) stayed in the zone the WHOLE time)

The fact that SE is a zone people have to stay in to receive the heal is the biggest issue with the ability. On the other hand, it does open up some (comparatively minor) benefit in that allies can enter the zone after the fact to receive (some) healing. Possibly more importantly, there are some situations where movement is either already restricted (bunker) or the need to move is more predictable (dungeons).

I think SE remains approximately as viable for group healing as the ability to provide group regeneration. With Kit Refinement, SE is comparable (not too unfavorably) to permanent group regeneration. It has the drawback of being a zone, but the benefit of stacking with both regeneration applied by others (if that happens) and itself (if that happens). It is also about as good for burst healing as regeneration, which is to say not very.

I still like it, and remember that it’s only 1 of 6 abilities granted by taking the EG; it isn’t entirely reasonable to expect one ability to carry the whole kit.

Lets get some more numbers in here then. Similar group heals, using that 1040 number: (not a comprehensive list)

Water Blast:Ele staff 1
370+.1 scaling:
470 HP AOE heals at range every 1.3 seconds.

Geyser: Ele staff 3
808 base +.25 scaling with 3 second duration: (3 ticks)
3204 HP over 3 seconds.

Cleansing wave: Ele Dagger 5
1302 base + 1 scaling
2342 HP burst heal with 40s cd AND/OR after dodge (if traited) with a 10s cd

Vigorous shouts: Warrior Trait:
40+((Level^2) x 0.18) + (Healing x 0.8)
1984 burst per shout. (Shout with lowest untraited cooldown is 25s, 20s if traited)

Shadow Refuge: Thief Utility:
355+.18 scaling over 5 ticks
2711 HP over 4 seconds.

Now…

’’SuperBroken’’ elixir:
380+.2 scaling over 10 seconds:
5880 HP over 10 seconds.

Sure, Super Elixir LOOKS good over 10 seconds, but…
A: you’re restricted to one area for 10 seconds
B: this kind of healing is still only in line with the other classes’ healing per second at that level.
C: Other classes get weapon stats with their weapons

Again, these are group heals.

Elixir Gun gives you two more heals to use, SE and the Toolbelt Regen. You have two traits to increase EG’s healing even farther, with Backpack Regenerator (which works for ANY kit) AND Kit Refinement (which gives an SE heal for EG equip).

If you double-trait, with EG you get a total of 6 different heals. Your normal heal + toolbelt heal, EG’s SE + toolbelt regen, SE upon equip, and backpack regen.

@Sporadicus Not many people go that route, or want to. Don’t use toolbelt regen as an example; it’s dumb. All it does is stack duration when you have other abilities giving you regen. Also, there is an annoying bug that causes you to receive only 5 healing a tick. So yea, it sucks.