Guild Wars 2

Toolkit third chain, Thwack, is really slow and hits only one target. I never hit any decent player with it. It should hit 3 like all melee attacks and have cast time reduced to 0.75 seconds.

I agree with the suggestion, thwack should cleave 3 or even 5 enemies and hit a bit faster. At the same time the tool kit gear shield skill is a bit too powerful, allowing too long lasting block at so long cooldown. Most other short cooldown blocking skills end from the 1st melee hit.

It should, but the animation is shared with all mace animations! And for Anet to change all mace animations or to create a separate animation just for Tool Kit auto attack… well that sounds like a lot of work that Anet won’t do!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

It should be noted that the tool belt skill is throw wrench. You are referring to the tool kit. Most folks will get that, once they read the OP, but the thread title can be confusing.

I don’t get why everyone complains about gearshield being to powerful when rangers get the 3s block on GS for just a 15 sec cd, 12 if traited…

gearshield is fine where it is.

Arantheal.7396:

I don’t get why everyone complains about gearshield being to powerful when rangers get the 3s block on GS for just a 15 sec cd, 12 if traited…

gearshield is fine where it is.

Well, there are few reasons for this:
1. Rangers are not part of the tpvp meta
2. GS#4, counter attack, turns into the attack into a kick if there is a target in melee range. After just 1 block any enemy within melee range makes GS#4 stop blocking. While you can keep blocking full 3 s with the gear shield

If you don’t understand why there is no QQ in the net about ranger GS, just try playing with it as your main weapon for 100+ h. I have done that with my ranger. The ranger GS is not bad and the evasion as part of auto attack chain is great, but the it still lacks a blast finisher (GS#2 maul would be logical) and GS#5 (hilt bash) is weak for its long 25 s cool down. All GS skills (maul, swoop especially) are exceptionally well telegraphed, something which I would want to see more on several other weapons on other professions.

But let’s keep the topic on the tool kit. I think it is one of the best engineer kits and part of the pvp meta.

While I would like to the 3rd AA to cleave I believe it would require a nerf somewhere else.

The nerf would likely end up being the block.

ellesee.8297:

It should, but the animation is shared with all mace animations! And for Anet to change all mace animations or to create a separate animation just for Tool Kit auto attack… well that sounds like a lot of work that Anet won’t do!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

You always are so negative in your posts, but end your posts with That almost sarcastic sounding “Wahoo! Bye frands!”
It’s like watching the tellitubbies, only if they were pessimistic beyond belief.

They don’t even need to change the animation, they could simply change the radius of the attack. Other mace comboes hit multiple enemies, so they could do the same thing for the tool kit without making any visual changes. Have some kitten hope for once, man.

Captain Swag.5893:

ellesee.8297:

It should, but the animation is shared with all mace animations! And for Anet to change all mace animations or to create a separate animation just for Tool Kit auto attack… well that sounds like a lot of work that Anet won’t do!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

You always are so negative in your posts, but end your posts with That almost sarcastic sounding “Wahoo! Bye frands!”
It’s like watching the tellitubbies, only if they were pessimistic beyond belief.

They don’t even need to change the animation, they could simply change the radius of the attack. Other mace comboes hit multiple enemies, so they could do the same thing for the tool kit without making any visual changes. Have some kitten hope for once, man.

Im not sure about warrior but guardian mace is basically the same as the toolkit chain, 2 cleaving attacks followed by a long-winded single target attack

Is this a joke? Toolkit’s main purpose is utility, not damage. The skill is there as very strong option to punish roles and combo from cc. If you give it a lower cast time and cleave, it just becomes another pat of engi’s aoe spam. Toolkit doesn’t need this, in fact I’d argue the damage should be reduced on this skill. You can’t just compare it to what other professions have, as the fact it’s part of toolkit gives the skill use a different context.

That doesn’t mean your argument would hold a drop of water though.

Just because something offers utility, doesn’t justify bad damage, much less suggesting it needs a nerf. That is simply a self conjured fallacy of login in my opinion. You use the term AoE spam as if it were a bad thing. Then offer a mentality that reinforces it by pushing builds toward bombs or grenades even further.

I am not suggesting a cool down change, but there is no justification, in my opinion, for having the last swing have such a wind up, only to be single target. It is very difficult to hit much with such a limited range, that when you remove the cleave aspect, it is essentially a wasted swing and wasted time. In my opinion they are better off removing it so that we get to the cleave hits again faster, if they are not going to offer it a cleave itself.

“You use the term AoE spam as if it were a bad thing.”

I’ll take it you agree that it would add to aoe spam to make this change. So why do engis need more of this? As I described, the skill is already far from useless. It is very effective at punishing roles on nearby enemies, and with all the cc engis have you can setup hits regularly.

Increasing close-range aoe spam is really just pointless. Grenades and bombs already fill this purpose. You are giving a purpose to a skill that is already fulfilled by a skill taken on 99% of non-turret-engi utility bars in spvp.

Next time somebody dodges the tk3 you just throw out there, you should think of it in a different light. Forcing a role is very useful, as it means another role immediately after is either impossible or unlikely. You can punish with other big damage options (which engis almost never run out of), or you can be more assured your cc will land without being screwed by a random roll.

And that is all about design. What about balance? Kits are tricky to balance; some skills are going to be better than others on a kit, and you have to take that into consideration. Unless you make some other change to balance this boost to tk3, then this would just further imbalance a kit that is already part of the meta.

SchiTown.7598:

Increasing close-range aoe spam is really just pointless. Grenades and bombs already fill this purpose. You are giving a purpose to a skill that is already fulfilled by a skill taken on 99% of non-turret-engi utility bars in spvp.

My SD-engi build wanna cleaving Toolkit 3rd attack! ‘Cos its annoying to hit a spirit/pet for BIGNUMBERZ when I could kill dat annoying player with it.. Okay, it’s rare to have everything else on CD, but still :P

Would be really nice to have for SD engi. Corpse cleave sucks on SD when you have blunder/jump shot on cooldown. You’d think full zerk SD would have better corpse cleave than the cele meta build.

ellesee.8297:

It should, but the animation is shared with all mace animations! And for Anet to change all mace animations or to create a separate animation just for Tool Kit auto attack… well that sounds like a lot of work that Anet won’t do!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

This is false. They modified the warrior’s mace animation so that the final attack in the chain has a shorter cast time than it used to. Previously, it was the same animation and cast time as thwack, but now it is the same animation with a lower cast time.

So such things are very possible and have been done relatively recently.

Yes the lack of cleave on 3rd hit of the toolkit auto is the exact reason people don’t use the toolkit auto.

robertul.3679:

Yes the lack of cleave on 3rd hit of the toolkit auto is the exact reason people don’t use the toolkit auto.

I use toolkit auto

I don’t use it commonly, mind you, but depending on the particular build I run, it may be the highest source of sustained direct damage. It also effectively applies perma cripple to an enemy, so it can be great if you need to slow down someone trying to run away if no other means are available. It’s something you can’t do with the bomb kit.

Then there’s the situations where a guardian sits in a wall of reflection, or an ele pops swirling winds. Against an engineer, most will consider this effective invulnerability since the engineer is generally highly reliant on projectiles. But I’ve had eles just go into a small fit of panic when I unexpectedly wade right into their swirling winds and just slap them around with the toolkit. I’ve even had people spend dodges on it.

Even if it had cleave, I don’t think it would change that much. It’s not going to be superior DPS in PvE, where such cleaving would be most useful against stacked mobs. The melee chain is used so uncommonly in PvP and WvW despite the common use of the toolkit, so the cleave would rarely even come into play. Even if someone was using the melee chain, they aren’t going to be doing it in the middle of a zerg, and the battles in PvP are too small scale to really gain the benefit from it.

Technically speaking, we’re supposed to be using it to repair our turrets, but well… you know how that goes. And by that, I mean no one ever does that.

The only real value I’d see it getting from cleave is that it could be used more effectively against builds like minionmancers and rangers. It’s the same reason why they gave a thief’s dagger the two target cleave.

You can use many non-projectile things to deal damage.
Blunderbuss, jump shot, blowtorch, poison grenade, all bombs, pry bar, acid bomb etc.

The worst you could do is toolkit auto. Want perma cripple? Box of nails!

Box of nails requires cast time. But I digress…

Cleave on Pry Bar would be too op. It already hits like a truck and applies 5 stacks of confusion. The least a competent engi player can do is hit the right target. Just my opinion as an Engi player.