Guild Wars 2

its ridiculous o/clock but been testing EG its auto attack never did as much damage as auto on pistol BUT been testing on mobs after an hour of testing and timing it appears that #1 eg does 10% more dps than #1 pistol allthough the tooltip says that pistol does more damage – they’ve changed something E/G does more bleeds so its either related to condition damage or maybe they’ve put a “hidden” 10% damage mitigation against weapons and didnt apply it to kits . . . all i know is that after lots of mobs killed, what took me 11 seconds with pistols took me 10 seconds with elixir gun . . .so thats a 10% DPS increase
both pistols are rampage exotic with knight/rampage outfit/jewellery

What?

Pistol 1 is .324 power scaling, with a 2second bleed. Aoe direct damage.
EG 1 is .380 power scaling, with a 4(3s in spvp) bleed. 1s weakness.

Both have a .8s recast time. i know pistol says 1/2s, and Eg 3/4s. but you get 1 shot every .8s with both.

Now, while EG scales better with power directly, pistol has an advantage of using pistols, and not kits.
if you have 2000 power with EG.
its .380*969*2000/armor(lets say 2600, aka tooltip.)=283
while an exotic pistol is 1025, not 969. And gets weapon stats, +170 power
so, its, .324*1025*2170/2600= 277

so, even with higher pistol damage, and that extra power, EG 1 should still be hitting harder directly.

And its always been like this.
This also does not take into consideration the +15% damage buff you can trait EG for.
Conversely, EG 1 is singlet target, while p1 is aoe hit. and can be traited for piercing, allowing double hits with the right positioning.

Pistol doesnt math in this way~~It need pierce trait from 30 firearm to work~~
For each mob you pierce in area you get 100% increase of DPS~
And as such, pistol not very useful while again single target~

so e/g #1 has always been better (vs single target)?
i’ve never timed before – must be the placebo effect – i think pistols will be better- so they are!
no i’m not traited for the xtra 15% and i was making sure the mobs were in very open positions so as not to double hit with pistols but i am traited for piercing and i had no buffs
. . . so if a sigil of bloodlust (+power)was used – does that mean that the e/g would do even more damage than pistol?
15 traited would be a good increase
Of course i know this is only situational but useful (to know) for those solo champion fights

yeah, EG would be much better for a solo champ fight.
The weaken+power scaling. Swap to pistol to apply static shot confuse+blind to further reduce damage taken.

Acid bomb and elixir F also scale really well with power.

Interesting. Where did you get those scaling and attack speed numbers? Not questioning them, I’d just love to have a place to look such stuff up.

Panzen.4625:

Interesting. Where did you get those scaling and attack speed numbers? Not questioning them, I’d just love to have a place to look such stuff up.

They are the tool tip in game.

Casia.4281:

yeah, EG would be much better for a solo champ fight.
The weaken+power scaling. Swap to pistol to apply static shot confuse+blind to further reduce damage taken.

Acid bomb and elixir F also scale really well with power.

lol i know acid bomb has been killing a full health mob all by itself – granted im in a lvld down zone -

Tool tips are not 100% accurate.
Its a start, but actual testing and math give the rest.

Tooltip listed damage is based on 2600 armor target. this is a heavy golem in the mists. Players and most npcs will have less. ( a few players may have more)

^Yeah, it’s painfully obvious how bad the scaling is on the kits. The current scaling on them does not even come remotely close to making up for the loss in stats. It’s exactly why everyone is forced into rifle/grenade builds(in PvE) if you play anything else you’re holding others back unless you’re solo. If you are not that you’re not doing even half your potential damage output. Which is sad because the class has so much variety thankfully in t/spvp we can put a little bit more of that variety to use though.

being a fan of dot (and healing) has taught me not to look for/at the big numbers as its the over time bit that counts. . put conditions on a target and then swap targets – no need to waste extra energy attacking that 1st mob as the over time damage will kill it . . .of course thats only pve as players are so much more intelligent than computer mobs lmao

ummmmm

It’s simple math to calculate coefficients:P Like…elementary school simple.

Disastro.4086:

^Yeah, it’s painfully obvious how bad the scaling is on the kits. The current scaling on them does not even come remotely close to making up for the loss in stats. It’s exactly why everyone is forced into rifle/grenade builds(in PvE) if you play anything else you’re holding others back unless you’re solo. If you are not that you’re not doing even half your potential damage output. Which is sad because the class has so much variety thankfully in t/spvp we can put a little bit more of that variety to use though.

i disagree having run dungeons and small group (champion)events using kits (f/t and e/g) and p/p people are surprised and grateful for the extra’s. i find myself pairing up with a thief and we duo champs very easily – im not sure if it would be as easy with grenades but worth trying after the weekend event

Of course it is. Nevertheless, I’d still prefer to look them up somewhere without testing out every single one for myself. In the warrior forum there was a list for it, for example… though I atm can’t even find that one -.-

BurnWeed.5902:

being a fan of dot (and healing) has taught me not to look for/at the big numbers as its the over time bit that counts. . put conditions on a target and then swap targets – no need to waste extra energy attacking that 1st mob as the over time damage will kill it . . .of course thats only pve as players are so much more intelligent than computer mobs lmao

Even in PvE unless it’s a boss type mob your conditions duration isn’t even going to do optimal damage in a bursty group. Then you have issues with stacking lets say you’re a condition build an then you have a condition thief/war in the group. The thief alone is maintaining 15stacks of his own bleed easily and more.. there is a maximum of 25 allowed stacks the warrior could potentially put up close to that amount too.. now you have 25 stacks all ready any bleed damage you do isn’t happening at all.

Burning is a different clusterkitten all together burning will do its damage in order of application. Additional burning applications have it’s duration stacked on to the end by extending the duration so there is a chance that the damage you’re contributing there may not hit at all if you’re with another class with higher condition damage + condition duration in the group. The entire design for condition stacking/duration in the game needs to be revamped imho. Works great solo, small-scale though and if you’re the only condition build in your group its not “that bad” but still inferior to all other options from a purely damage point of view.

BurnWeed.5902:

i disagree having run dungeons and small group (champion)events using kits (f/t and e/g) and p/p people are surprised and grateful for the extra’s. i find myself pairing up with a thief and we duo champs very easily – im not sure if it would be as easy with grenades but worth trying after the weekend event

In niche situations everything can be potentially useful to some extent. If you’re making it work it’s simply because you’re a good player knowing when to use your utility at the right time. They’re still by far “damaged goods” that need to be re-tuned. There are some nice control options and utility in the kits that are not effected by scaling issues so much and thats usually only 1 or 2 buttons out of that kit/weapon set, those abilities are fine.

I thought that Tranquilizing Dart was 4s bleed everywhere and if you take Rifled Barrels trait, then it would be 3s bleed and longer weakness duration.

ReflectedRed.8025:

I thought that Tranqualizing Dart is 4s bleed everywhere and if you take Rifled Barrels trait, then it would be 3s bleed and longer weakness duration.

Oh, you are right. I was mistaken in thinking it was a spvp/pve thing.

Rifled barrels changes the tooltips on the conditions on EG1, 2 and 5.

EG1. lists 1s weakness, and 4s bleed without rifled barrels.
Rifle barrels lists 3s weakness, and 3s bleed. this is actually how it works.

EG2. lists 3s cripple, 3s swiftness. without rifled barrels.
rifle barreled lists 5s cripple, and 5s swiftness. This is a lie. its still 3s.

EG5. lists combo field, proper scaling etc.
EG with rifled barreled uses the old tooltip with no scaling 64 healing at 80. ha. no combo field listed. it works properly.

Disastro.4086:

BurnWeed.5902:

being a fan of dot (and healing) has taught me not to look for/at the big numbers as its the over time bit that counts. . put conditions on a target and then swap targets – no need to waste extra energy attacking that 1st mob as the over time damage will kill it . . .of course thats only pve as players are so much more intelligent than computer mobs lmao

Even in PvE unless it’s a boss type mob your conditions duration isn’t even going to do optimal damage in a bursty group. Then you have issues with stacking lets say you’re a condition build an then you have a condition thief/war in the group. The thief alone is maintaining 15stacks of his own bleed easily and more.. there is a maximum of 25 allowed stacks the warrior could potentially put up close to that amount too.. now you have 25 stacks all ready any bleed damage you do isn’t happening at all.

Burning is a different clusterkitten all together burning will do its damage in order of application. Additional burning applications have it’s duration stacked on to the end by extending the duration so there is a chance that the damage you’re contributing there may not hit at all if you’re with another class with higher condition damage + condition duration in the group. The entire design for condition stacking/duration in the game needs to be revamped imho. Works great solo, small-scale though and if you’re the only condition build in your group its not “that bad” but still inferior to all other options from a purely damage point of view.

i understand the stacking issue only too well on large scale events – but if your doing high condition damage then you will get in that stack
i dont know anyone that agrees with the way condition damage works re max stack and the simplest fix would be that c/d does d/d when the stack is maxed
i’m merely pointing out (having watched lots of fights from lots of hilltops) that (some) people, when attacked by multiple mobs, tend to target and kill one mob at a time( the mobs got 10+ bleed stacks very little health – the bleeds would be enough to kill it, but they’re still shooting at it- those “hits” could of been used on a new mob,
and im not saying that just one thing or one way is right cos its all situational – just when i’m solo ori farming in orr i tag mobs and end up with a nice group (of mobs) around me i tend to dot then swap target or burn n swap as i say

i disagree having run dungeons and small group (champion)events using kits (f/t and e/g) and p/p people are surprised and grateful for the extra’s. i find myself pairing up with a thief and we duo champs very easily – im not sure if it would be as easy with grenades but worth trying after the weekend event

In niche situations everything can be potentially useful to some extent. If you’re making it work it’s simply because you’re a good player knowing when to use your utility at the right time. They’re still by far “damaged goods” that need to be re-tuned. There are some nice control options and utility in the kits that are not effected by scaling issues so much and thats usually only 1 or 2 buttons out of that kit/weapon set, those abilities are fine.

wholeheartedly agree that everything is situational

BurnWeed.5902:

i understand the stacking issue only too well on large scale events – but if your doing high condition damage then you will get in that stack
i dont know anyone that agrees with the way condition damage works re max stack and the simplest fix would be that c/d does d/d when the stack is maxed
i’m merely pointing out (having watched lots of fights from lots of hilltops) that (some) people, when attacked by multiple mobs, tend to target and kill one mob at a time( the mobs got 10+ bleed stacks very little health – the bleeds would be enough to kill it, but they’re still shooting at it- those “hits” could of been used on a new mob,
and im not saying that just one thing or one way is right cos its all situational – just when i’m solo ori farming in orr i tag mobs and end up with a nice group (of mobs) around me i tend to dot then swap target or burn n swap as i say

In those types of situations yes it can work and I understand what you’re saying in regards to fire and forget on conditions once stacked but it’s really unrealistic due to the psychology of most players they’ll keep at it until the mob is dead. As any kind of condition build you have to deal with that and it limits your contribution as a side effect(not an issue for a solo player though).

Yes, you can still get into those stacks large scale when they’re approaching max but it’s usually only going to be 1-3 stacks typically which isn’t going to be that effective with damage contribution wise when you could still be doing potentially 3k+ damage every 1s that is an insane amount of disparity between grenade/rifle vs. other builds.

I just want to see the other specs more viable I’d like to be able to rely on pistols/conditions and other kits for similar damage. Unfortunately even a lot of engineers are not even aware of the level of disparity between some builds or classes and just accept things as they are which is probably why we’re getting pushed down on the priority list those that whine the loudest on these forums seem to get updated and fixed more frequently.

not really impressed with EG right now especially since they have yet to fix the miss problem. It’s like no one there is playing this class because they certainly aren’t listening to their players!

the thing misses the enemies does barely any damage and the AOE is laughably small for the acid spill.

and don’t get me started on playing this class like it’s a support class. four skills all do the same regen buff with no initial heal on use, can we say redundant anyone?