Ranger:
Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.
Bah! I’d give my left kitten to have turret cooldowns for Rocket, Thumper, and Net to 25s. That would make turret builds so much more portable… that and treads to make them moveable!
I know, right? I mean, it kind of makes sense (as Ranger spirits don’t directly do a whole lot, as far as I’m aware, whereas our turrets are…supposed to be threats), but…it’d be nice. Maybe they’ll throw us a bone when they finally fix our Turret bugs.
Spirit ranger gets a buff… HAHAHAHAHAHA! i laugh to stop from crying.
Actually this is more of a nerf to them.
The cooldown may be reduced to 25seconds, but now the cooldown doesnt start when the Spirit is summoned but when it ends (either expires or killed).
Previously if they kept the Spirit alive for the full minute they could just resummon it straigth away. Or if it died close to expiring.
This is a buff to bad Spirit Ranger that lose their Spirits shortly after a summon, but a nerf to the better Rangers that could keep them alive for atleast 35seconds.
Yeh I also want 25 seconds cooldown on some turrets. Especially Rocket Turret.
The nerf spirit rangers recieved would be a buff for turret users.
Somehow I find that funny :P
But I think such a buff to engineer turrets would be quite plausible. Because in my opinion turrets are inferior to spirits in every way… safe for cc maybe
I keep seeing posts where people say Spirit rangers are OP, but iv looked at them and their traits, I just dont see what the fuss is about. I either need some gameplay to see what’s up or have some one explain it to me.
I have a question for you guys:
Would you rather have fragile but short cooldown turrets, or tough but long cooldown turrets?
Quoting a single change to Spirit Rangers without noting the rest of the changes is disingenuous.
All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.
Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.
Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.
Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.
Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.
Quoting a single change to Spirit Rangers without noting the rest of the changes is disingenuous.
All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.
Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.
Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.
Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.
Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.
I am attempting an objective response. Everything said after this point is, to the best of my knowledge, fact. (Except for sentences marked with [Opinion]:.)
So now the spirits are vulnerable to being knocked around.
They also, unless they changed it, can block the passage of enemies and enemy projectiles through their space (at least, as far as I am aware). [Opinion]: This is likely why they decided to have them be knocked around.
Turrets have never had that power, certainly not that I am aware of. [Opinion]: They likely never will, unless they also receive vulnerability to crowd-control knockarounds.
Their cooldown now starts when they leave the field.
Turret cooldowns have always started when they left the field.
Their cooldowns are now all 25 Seconds, except for Spirit of Nature’s 180-second interval.
I could quote the Turret cooldowns, but honestly, “That would be pretty nice” is all I have to say about the idea of having shorter cooldowns on Turrets.
Fellow engineers, please be true to your profession and be more intelligent than this. Spirit rangers received a generous nerf this patch, not a buff.
Is spirit ranger still a better tournament build than turret engineer? Yes. But that’s because turrets still have a long list of bugs, in addition to being (poorly) designed to only fire at the closest target to them, whether that is a mesmer clone, a wolf, or a WvW gate.
Engineers are right to keep calling for turrets—a staple of engineer lore and gameplay—to actually work. But being blatantly wrong is a good way to get ignored.
They’ll ignore us anyway, whether we’re wrong or spot-on. They only pop in to throw us some breadcrumbs – “Yeah, we’ve come up with some stuff for that,” “Unfortunately, resources are being directed elsewhere,” “Yeah, that’s getting fixed,” “Oh, we’re buffing that anyway.” For months, we had a nonfunctional trait that, seemingly, no staff member knew was broken, and probably a thread a month about it.
They can say all they want about reading threads but not having time to reply…I’ll never forget that they couldn’t be bothered to say a word about the Scope issue until it was posted on the sPvP boards, and then tried to say it was working.
Spirit Rangers definitely were nerfed, no question.
My personal opinion is that turrets are weaker than spirits. Mobility is the biggest issue. With cooldowns being so long and activating on despawn, you have to play a very stationary role. I’d love to see a trait that added treads to make turrets follow you around like minions, but of course that would homogenize the classes making us like Rangers and Necros… still I don’t care!
I just think it’s ironic this nerf to Spirit Rangers I would consider a godsend for Turret Engineers!
One idea that tumbled into my head on a different thread just now was to borrow the mantra mechanic from mesmers.
Mantras are charged by a initial long casting, and then have 2-3 charges that can be quickly fired off with no casting time. these charges are seen as icons with numbers alongside boons and conditions.
What i am thinking is that engineers could build turrets and get these icons, then use the same skill again to deploy them. If the turret survives you can then collect it again to turn it into a “charge” once more.
Detonate toolbelt skills would have the explosion happen on the engineer while in “charge” form, and would then start the recharge timer as usual.
I guess the niggle here is the healing turret, as i guess one could abuse it by constantly deploying and repacking it. A internal recharge equivalent to the current shorter recharge on pickup may fix that.
Interesting idea, a few concerns however. damaged turrets could be picked up and redeployed to heal them and turrets with slow attack speeds could abuse this to get a faster attacks off.
To fix this issue once a turret is picked up it would have to go on a cooldown, maybe 10-20 seconds something around that number so it would still be well worth it to pick them up, something turrets have a problem with right now.
Seems like a good idea, would give a reason to buff turrets damage wise due to the much greater risk.
I read the patch notes, i wouldn’t call it a nerf as much as i would call it a “re-working” of the spirit ranger. The up time on spirits is going to be close to the same for anyone worth there salt, and spirits provide there benefits even while knocked down.
Not a nerf, i agree not a buff and im sorry for posting w/o researching 1st (flame away i deserve it)
I read the patch notes, i wouldn’t call it a nerf as much as i would call it a “re-working” of the spirit ranger. The up time on spirits is going to be close to the same for anyone worth there salt, and spirits provide there benefits even while knocked down.
Not a nerf, i agree not a buff and im sorry for posting w/o researching 1st (flame away i deserve it)
No problem, happens to the best of us. You also need to understand that spirit ranger is pretty much only a tournament build. Sure, if there’s someone out there doing hearts with four spirits out, the changes are insignificant, but the nerf was intended to bring down the tournament build, which was wrecking all competition. In PvP, it was a massive advantage to be able to cast the spirits before a fight, and then entire a fight with their cooldowns just about recharged—it was basically like having no cooldowns on spirits at all. As soon as the spirits died, the ranger could re-summon them. So a 25-second recharge that doesn’t start until the spirit dies is more like a 25-second increase to the cooldown, not a decrease. So the “uptime” is changed dramatically, and the knockdown drastically reduces the revive ability of the elite spirit.
I’m pretty sure nothing’s going to happen with turrets, sad to say. They were broken at launch and every single patch for them so far has fixed one issue and introduced another. Even today they’re still broken, as a developer somehow managed to make it so turrets are wrongly affected by downscaling. If you’re level 80 and you deploy a turret in a level 10 zone, you end up deploying a level 10 turret that ALSO gets its stats reduced due to downscaling, so it ends up being worthless.
I’m pretty sure nothing’s going to happen with turrets, sad to say. They were broken at launch and every single patch for them so far has fixed one issue and introduced another. Even today they’re still broken, as a developer somehow managed to make it so turrets are wrongly affected by downscaling. If you’re level 80 and you deploy a turret in a level 10 zone, you end up deploying a level 10 turret that ALSO gets its stats reduced due to downscaling, so it ends up being worthless.
…wait, so you think the fact that turrets are affected by downscaling is a bug?
Personally, I’m pretty sure that’s an intended effect. Doesn’t make sense for them to not be affected, after all. Is there some kind of secondary stat-reduction that they then undergo? If so, how did you discover this?
What I’m sure isn’t an intended effect:
The on-placement shot of a turret is not affected by downleveling, and thus hits like a truck. It’s also not affected by Rifled Turret Barrels, but that has nothing to do with downleveling.
Maybe he means that if your down leveled to 10 and deploy a turret its base stats are of 10, but then goes through its own downscaling on top of the already reduces stats from you being downscaled.
Wouldnt be too hard to test, get your lvl 80 engi to a starter zone, place rifle turret make a note of the damage, then start a new character get rifle and test again.
If nobody else has tested that by tomorrow, I will. Actually already have a second Engineer.
Things to possibly be considered, however, for anyone who decides to do this:
Traits can influence the power of your turrets. If you’re using a build with lots of points in Explosives, your turrets will have much more Power, and this might throw off the results.
It’s all context. In the context of the Ranger, they’ve been nerfed, because now they can’t potentially have their spirits up forever by cyclical summoning. And I guess they had CC-vulnerability added to the spirits, but nobody seems all that concerned about that.
However, a chunk of that nerf makes their spirits do something our turrets have always done, and so we consider the 25-second cooldown a buff because the context we have for things like the spirits is our turrets.
Really, we could pretty much be saying “Welcome to our world.”
I keep seeing posts where people say Spirit rangers are OP, but iv looked at them and their traits, I just dont see what the fuss is about. I either need some gameplay to see what’s up or have some one explain it to me.
I have a question for you guys:
Would you rather have fragile but short cooldown turrets, or tough but long cooldown turrets?
It’s all about fighting on a point. Their storm spirit does crazy amounts of damage, their Sun spirit basically allows them to spam one and win, and their Stone Spirit pretty much gives them infinite protection.
On to the turret issue i would love to see an ability added that allows you to summon your turrets, Turret Teleporter. Also i would like to see an Elite Turret “other than supply crate”
Testing the inaccurate downleveling. Neither character used had any Explosives trait points, and I stripped them of all armor, trinkets and weaponry before performing the test to ascertain that any results would be accurate.
Level 80 downscaled to Level 6. Rifle Turret Tooltip says: 120 damage. Target: Level 5 Flame Legion Axe Fiend.
Results: 130 on first shot, 33 on all subsequent shots.
Level 6, at level 6. Rifle Turret Tooltip says: 120 damage. Target: Level 5 Flame Legion Axe Fiend.
Results: 130 on first shot, 33 on all subsequent shots.
Unless somebody else can confirm that bug, I’m just going to be over here being glad I didn’t just confirm Bug #20.
Interesting how exactly the same they were. Kinda demonstrates that downscaling works, but only really when naked.
Had a bit of fun jumping between Frostgorge and Wayfarers, taking on Son of Svanir with my Tool Kit. In Wayfarers a single #1 chain would drop just about any Svanir i could find. But pop into Frostgorge and it would take 5-6 such chains to do the same. No wonder everyone is farming Queensdale unless there is a chest boss or invasions going on…
Interesting how exactly the same they were. Kinda demonstrates that downscaling works, but only really when naked.
It’s also worth noting that this was a Power measurement. Were I to test it with a full set of ’zerker’s gear on, with no ranks in Explosives, the result would be the same, as Turrets don’t scale to gear except for the purposes of Conditions, Healing, and Boons.
well I just do not understand why Anet doesn’t make the turrets scale to char stats.
plus turret scaling is horrible in PVE. when the monsters upscale the dmg it does is just a scratch.
