Guild Wars 2

This is an open invitation to the devs, and anyone else, to go and use turrets against the profession npc’s in Heart of the Mists.
And yes devs: it is a REAL challenge I’m asking you to do: post your findings if you dare…

Create any build you like with any turret you prefer.

Use tool kit for repair, or not, trait every turret trait you think is usefull.

Now go and fight all of the npc’s.
You will notice that they all destroy your turrets in a few seconds.
Each time a npc gets in the neighboorhood of your turrets, the turret WILL die in 2 or 3 hits.

Even putting them at range won’t help in most cases. Npc’s will move to them at one point or another. Or their pets, copycats and spirit weapons will…

Some fights you get lucky and the npc doesn’t move to your turrets.

A little bit more health is NOT going to cut it!
They die in 2 or 3 hits, not exagerating, not in a manner of speaking. For real!
3k, 2k, next hit dead. This took less than 2 seconds.

Toughness and avoidance is what they need

Kimbald.2697:

This is an open invitation to the devs, and anyone else, to go and use turrets against the profession npc’s in Heart of the Mists.
And yes devs: it is a REAL challenge I’m asking you to do: post your findings if you dare…

Create any build you like with any turret you prefer.

Use tool kit for repair, or not, trait every turret trait you think is usefull.

Now go and fight all of the npc’s.
You will notice that they all destroy your turrets in a few seconds.
Each time a npc gets in the neighboorhood of your turrets, the turret WILL die in 2 or 3 hits.

Even putting them at range won’t help in most cases. Npc’s will move to them at one point or another. Or their pets, copycats and spirit weapons will…

Some fights you get lucky and the npc doesn’t move to your turrets.

A little bit more health is NOT going to cut it!
They die in 2 or 3 hits, not exagerating, not in a manner of speaking. For real!
3k, 2k, next hit dead. This took less than 2 seconds.

Toughness and avoidance is what they need

I still like the idea of AoE damage reduction. To me, anyone focusing a turret isn’t focusing me, and we have ways to make our turrets tougher or blow up, but when they go down to random AoE that isn’t even looking at the turrets, that’s what grinds my gears. You don’t even have to “try” to take them out if you’re heavy AoE.

These npc’s aren’t even all that smart. And their aoe is almost always meant for me.
Still the turrets just blow up… just like that.

Aoe reduction indeed.
Direct targeting is acceptable, but even than 2 or 3 hits is a bit too squishy. But at least it’s 2 or 3 hits not coming to me and I have time to respond.

Here’s my build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqyVH5SbF1LJxIFMW0hekYQvYQFsroC6H-TkAA2EGpMyZkxIpRWjGdMJB

It isn’t completely finished (just made it :p), but so far I like playing it. Basically, the placement of my turrets is how they stay alive. By using the Deployable Turrets trait I can put my turrets up where they can’t be hit by stray AoE but they can still hit my opponents. In the heart of the mists by the npc’s there’s a bunch of pillars that I can use to place them there, and they’re usually just fine. I don’t know if Deployable Turrets is plausible in top PvP stuff, but so far it’s been working for me.

The link above was after I made my first changes. This is my first “draft” of the build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqyV3zSbF1LJxoCMO0jED6FLqg+/oQu0F-TkAA2EGpMyZkxIpRWjGdMJB

tl;dr Use Deployable Turrets trait intelligently.

EDIT: Posted a picture of the deployable turrets trait (Tools V trait) being used over by where the profession npcs are.

I’m all for a turret buff, but you guys play too much Warcraft; AoE attacks are not a clearly defined and distinct thing in this game. We have cleaving melee attacks and piercing ranged attacks.
Assuming they even have the means to add a defense against AoE attacks specifically, you still have other issues.
Don’t include the piercing/cleaving attacks, and the change does very little.
Include them, and it will take effect with such regularity that you may as well just increase their defense against everything.

Grimwolf.7163:

I’m all for a turret buff, but you guys play too much Warcraft; AoE attacks are not a clearly defined and distinct thing in this game. We have cleaving melee attacks and piercing ranged attacks.
Assuming they even have the means to add a defense against AoE attacks specifically, you still have other issues.
Don’t include the piercing/cleaving attacks, and the change does very little.
Include them, and it will take effect with such regularity that you may as well just increase their defense against everything.

All of this is very true, but does it really make any difference?

It’s mostly semantics, isn’t it? You’re debating the use of the words when you say it’s not just aoe, but also cleave and pierce etc. That’s correct, but not really relevant since we don’t do the coding. We simply list the problems we face with turrets.
I’m sure the devs can figure out what we mean.

Bottom line: turrets need a lot of damage avoidance.
The people who created this game should be able to come up with something that does this, under whatever name the damage itself is listed.

You’re completely ignoring my point; MOST attacks in this game deal “AoE”. At least with traits.
Even the Thief’s Dagger, which may be one of the most single-target focused sets in the game, has “AoE” on two out of five attacks.
The rest are just one or two attacks randomly interspersed among a mass of “AoE” attacks.
Most melee attacks cleave, and most ranged attacks, if they are not naturally some form of AoE, have access to traits that add either ricochet or piercing to all their attacks.

Grimwolf.7163:

You’re completely ignoring my point; MOST attacks in this game deal “AoE”. At least with traits.
Even the Thief’s Dagger, which may be one of the most single-target focused sets in the game, has “AoE” on two out of five attacks.
Most melee attacks cleave, and most ranged attacks, if they are not naturally some form of AoE, have access to traits that add either ricochet or piercing to all their attacks.
The rest are just one or two attacks randomly interspersed among a mass of “AoE” attacks.

I realise most attacks actually do aoe (my tool kit does 2 out of 3 even on auto-attack).
I also realise that most atttacks don’t even need to be targeted in melee range: just swing and they hit in their area.

These 2 mechanics put up the problem of exactly what damage turrets should avoid.
I’m aware of what you are pointing at.

But also try to understand what I am pointing at: that is not our problem in the end.

Let’s say that the dev’s agree on giving turrets more ‘avoidance’ than it is up to them how they figure this could be done best.
Of course they can’t just say ‘immune to aoe’ because that would mean turrets are immune to almost everything.
But it’s up to the devs to come up with a mechanic of avoidance that gets the job done. If they want to, as I said. They might think it’s not needed.

That’s why I said you were arguing over words: we are not trying to explain to other players how attacks in this game work. In that case the words are important.
We are asking the devs to give the turrets avoidance. For them the words don’t matter, they make up words for it if they want, and they code it as they see fit or doable.

aydenunited.5729:

Kimbald.2697:

This is an open invitation to the devs, and anyone else, to go and use turrets against the profession npc’s in Heart of the Mists.
And yes devs: it is a REAL challenge I’m asking you to do: post your findings if you dare…

Create any build you like with any turret you prefer.

Use tool kit for repair, or not, trait every turret trait you think is usefull.

Now go and fight all of the npc’s.
You will notice that they all destroy your turrets in a few seconds.
Each time a npc gets in the neighboorhood of your turrets, the turret WILL die in 2 or 3 hits.

Even putting them at range won’t help in most cases. Npc’s will move to them at one point or another. Or their pets, copycats and spirit weapons will…

Some fights you get lucky and the npc doesn’t move to your turrets.

A little bit more health is NOT going to cut it!
They die in 2 or 3 hits, not exagerating, not in a manner of speaking. For real!
3k, 2k, next hit dead. This took less than 2 seconds.

Toughness and avoidance is what they need

I still like the idea of AoE damage reduction. To me, anyone focusing a turret isn’t focusing me, and we have ways to make our turrets tougher or blow up, but when they go down to random AoE that isn’t even looking at the turrets, that’s what grinds my gears. You don’t even have to “try” to take them out if you’re heavy AoE.

It’s what’s had to happen in pet heavy classes all throughout mmo development history. Every time this problem cropped up in games with heavy AOE attacks, the first thing the devs did was increase defense and increase health and they always ended up having to make the pets immune to damage in some way. Always. It’s a hard lesson one I hope they learn soon and implement so that these things will actually be worth choosing for more than the toolbelt abilities.

I also tried it. With this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqOlIqyVX3SblkYUhOHSRhBtIF53yfUwW6C-TgAA1CqICSFkLITQygsBB

My idea was to survive and the turret CC and make damage. But the net turret miss 80% of the time the target. Rocket turret overcharge = useless against moving targets.

This is a real problem with the turret. I have to take a kit into this build because otherwise I have no weaponswitch AND I do not benefit from crit. The turret miss all the time my opponent following me, so I die.

No mesmer phantasmal miss one single hit/shot or whatever. My turret miss all the time.