Guild Wars 2

I feel like the turrets need a natural regen, aoe resistence or both. Nothing major but enough so that they can stay in the fight through random damage. It’s fine if they get destroyed due to being focused but when an enemy can shut down your turrets while still focusing on you it’s a little crazy, especially considering the cooldown on the turrets.

This happens regardless if you are turreting in pve or pvp, they just don’t last long enough to be worth blowing a cooldown for half the time unless you run around to put them in weird places.

I know turrets are not in a good place right now though i still find them useful and enjoyable but what’s not useful or enjoyable is when you blow a 20 + second cooldown only to see the turret destroyed shortly after by random damage that was not even aimed at them.

I do not think it makes much sense for me to equip a spanner and spank my turret for 10 seconds to heal it only for it to get destroyed shortly after. So i figure some natural regen for the turrets would help them last in battle so we can actually hold positions like we are meant to and we can take the spanner if we want to speed up the process.

I was just wandering what others thought on this, though i’m sure turrets have been talked about before, i don’t know if they used to have regen or not or if it has been suggested before.

I don’t think you’ll find anyone that would disagree that something needs to change with turrets. But, we don’t need them going back to how they were. They need to remain easily destroyed because they were just bad for PVP (of course that was pre-HoT now you have so many passive things going on I wonder if it would even be considered a problem?)

My thought is make them immune to damage, but add a small breakbar, just like 100-200, something that any dedicated CC ability would knock them right out. Note at 100 even just a chill would take them out in 3-4s, why I’m thinking 200 is probably the right spot.

With that they’d be useable in most PVE as CC attacks from enemies are less common than just splash damage, and with proper positioning even enemies that do have regular CC attacks (much of HoT) wouldn’t hit them. For PVP they’d still be easily dealt with by just tossing out some CC.

I think Turrets would still need a few more tweaks to be in a good place, but they’d at least be useable in the way they were before. I really liked WoodenPotato’s idea of keeping the toolbelt skills available while the turret is placed, with that and a fix to the durability issue I could see turrets getting a bit more use.

Jerus.4350:

But, we don’t need them going back to how they were.

That sentence alone summarizes why turrets have been ignored all this time, Anet doesn’t wanna buff the turrets because they were controversial back then for being unfairly easy to play, compared to what the rest had to do for stay in line.

I agree there’s many stuff that they could do for buff them, but the community will whine about it if turrets get buffs? that’s the issue.

Right now they have the free card of buff gadgets as they need fixes too, prob turrets will be ignored until they are the only thing that sucks from us.

I wish I could say you’re wrong, but you’re probably right. It’s sad though.

That is kind of annoying and true that turrets can become dangerously camp friendly if buffed too much. Maybe just give turrets the ability to be dropped like the supply crate elite skill. At least then we can place them out of harms way so enemies actually have to focus on them rather than just throw AOEs on us.

It would allow us the option to place the turrets how we want rather than just right on top of ourselves. I think it would be a nice tactical option for their placement if anything. I do like the sound of a small breakbar though, as the turrets could have a few seconds of free time before they took damage.

Jerus.4350:

My thought is make them immune to damage, but add a small breakbar, just like 100-200, something that any dedicated CC ability would knock them right out. Note at 100 even just a chill would take them out in 3-4s, why I’m thinking 200 is probably the

to build on this:
in addition to being immune to damage, they’ll need to be immune to condis or otherwise unepidemicable, otherwise epidemic makes them a suicidal noob trap.

now, if you allow condi applications on them, there’s already a mechanic in place to handle soft cc: break bar regen. tune appropriately without raising the max break health so high that weak ccs can’t kill.

I rather like the idea.

but it sounds programming intensive.

I don’t think its necessary to do so many changes to them (like breakbar)

immo they need:

- Adjust health bar so they are not easily destroyed but also not immortal. Turret placement is part of the gameplay and you need to be strategic.
– Improve dmg on dmg turrets. dps of turret overcharge should be more than toolbelt.
– Reduce CD by 20%
– Increase CD reduction for pickup to 50%. Picking up a turret reset its overcharge skill
– Advance turrets: turrets create reflective shield on overcharge (instead of deployment) – more strategy and more value of turrets deployed instead of destroyed.
– Experimental turrets: reapply boons on turret overcharge, and detonating turrets reduce their CD by 25%.
– Toolkit – increase Autoattack speed, increase turret regen on third strike

that doesnt sound like less changes :P

sounds maybe less programming intensive though

No, plz, nooooo!

Rly, just search vids from buffed turrets time. Worst engi time ever

insanemaniac.2456:

Jerus.4350:

My thought is make them immune to damage, but add a small breakbar, just like 100-200, something that any dedicated CC ability would knock them right out. Note at 100 even just a chill would take them out in 3-4s, why I’m thinking 200 is probably the

to build on this:
in addition to being immune to damage, they’ll need to be immune to condis or otherwise unepidemicable, otherwise epidemic makes them a suicidal noob trap.

now, if you allow condi applications on them, there’s already a mechanic in place to handle soft cc: break bar regen. tune appropriately without raising the max break health so high that weak ccs can’t kill.

I rather like the idea.

but it sounds programming intensive.

I don’t really see the epidemic issue as a problem, because it has counter play. You can notice someone stacking condi on turrets and detonate them, potentially providing CC and damage. And, if one profession has a great counter to the build… well isn’t that just GW2 PVP in a nutshell? Counters being a major aspect arguably over skill. Some things will simply be your counter and worth avoiding. Other team has a necro, might not want to run a turret build, or do and test out their skill.

Either way I don’t really see it as an argument, counter play exists to it in both CC and epidemic, and they have power again against things that don’t counter them. While allowing an option against the counter (detonate).

I respect and agree with the concern, I just see it as a positive remark as it makes it seem all the more reasonable

Dimes.6024:

No, plz, nooooo!

Rly, just search vids from buffed turrets time. Worst engi time ever

I don’t think anyone is asking for the power of the old Turret engi to come back, we just want them to be an option again.

That said, I really wonder if they’d even be considered OP if they were in the old state. The problem was passive power, and well, HoT gave that in surplus. Chill = bleed for Necro, so all those chills that you’re putting out which is quite a bit with reaper builds, boom damage. Or, Adrenal health on warrior, coming easily through the use of berserker burst skills that you’re using for damage. Then there’s Engi who now get stability just for dodging an attack or regen for having swiftness.

Point being is that HoT added a ton of passive power as well as power overall and while I don’t want to see turrets in their former state I wonder if it’d even be a problem in today’s game?

Jerus.4350:

insanemaniac.2456:

Jerus.4350:

My thought is make them immune to damage, but add a small breakbar, just like 100-200, something that any dedicated CC ability would knock them right out. Note at 100 even just a chill would take them out in 3-4s, why I’m thinking 200 is probably the

to build on this:
in addition to being immune to damage, they’ll need to be immune to condis or otherwise unepidemicable, otherwise epidemic makes them a suicidal noob trap.

now, if you allow condi applications on them, there’s already a mechanic in place to handle soft cc: break bar regen. tune appropriately without raising the max break health so high that weak ccs can’t kill.

I rather like the idea.

but it sounds programming intensive.

I don’t really see the epidemic issue as a problem, because it has counter play. You can notice someone stacking condi on turrets and detonate them, potentially providing CC and damage. And, if one profession has a great counter to the build… well isn’t that just GW2 PVP in a nutshell? Counters being a major aspect arguably over skill. Some things will simply be your counter and worth avoiding. Other team has a necro, might not want to run a turret build, or do and test out their skill.

Either way I don’t really see it as an argument, counter play exists to it in both CC and epidemic, and they have power again against things that don’t counter them. While allowing an option against the counter (detonate).

I respect and agree with the concern, I just see it as a positive remark as it makes it seem all the more reasonable

to explain my thought a bit more:

it opens it up to wvw edge cases where the turret gets the aggro of several condi classes to stack up 9+ condis, doesnt die, and then the condis get spread to 5 other players. we just went through a round of this with downed players and revs being essentially traps. its why resistance now prevents/blocks epidemic. wouldnt want to see it pop up again, even in a (in some ways) harder to control form that encourages spying and trolling by opposing teams.

but no, counterplay and counters arent bad. i agree. id just rather not revisit terrain already covered, especially in a form that becomes more accessible to trolling.

I’d be tempted to turn turrets into a damaging version of banners ( like the one some of the mordrem drop in HoT).

Turret auto attacks become PBAoE, with their overcharge remaining as it is (so there is some single target damage).
Each attack drops a turret’s health by 10% (bringing the idea of tool kit to heal turrets back)
Each turret’s overcharge grants other turrets within it’s range a turret only boon
Overcharge activation drops a turret’s health by 20% (If it would destroy the turret it becomes immune for the duration of the overcharge then explodes)
Turrets are (once again) resistant to damage but using a stun or daze can disable them for the stun/daze duration.
Turrets can be picked up to be deployed to a new location but can also be stowed for 20% cooldown reduction.
New set of skills while holding a turret would be: Turret themed auto attack, overcharge turret (triggering the overcharge but destroying the turret bundle) and drop turret. A 4th, engineer only skill would be a channelled skill that repairs the turret and the 5th, turret owner skill, would stow the turret.

To me, turrets have always been about defensive DPS and area denial. It should be hard to remove a fully deployed turret engi from a point they’ve bunkered down in. But unlike before, the turrets now have limit attacks and overcharges before they’re destroyed + can be disabled to give an opponent(s) time to overpower the engineer.

Very interesting ideas.
Adding a breakbar is the one I like the most, just because it creates a new gameplay mechanic, way different from other “minions”.

I’d also add my previous idea:
Just buff everything up on turrets, make them use player stats, make them able to crit, fairly improve DPS and augment their health A LOT. Then reduce their range to 600, and make them impossible to place side by side: they should be at least 500 apart from each other. This way the turrets can still defend specific places and create effective area denial, but their damage AOE overlap will be reduced, and the engie will have to move around much more to keep them working. Attackers should cleverly position themselves to break the turrets with less risk, and in general, the gameplay becomes more active and fun. IMO is a good way to bring back turret play.

With all the ideas created, i think theres a way for not upset the community with any sort of turret buff.

As a start, we can bring all these types of buff, but for pve only, if we keep away turrets from pvp play (and if possible or necessary, away from wvw as well), that might be good enough for being an accepted option once again, and snowball the turret improvements.

insanemaniac.2456:

Jerus.4350:

insanemaniac.2456:

Jerus.4350:

My thought is make them immune to damage, but add a small breakbar, just like 100-200, something that any dedicated CC ability would knock them right out. Note at 100 even just a chill would take them out in 3-4s, why I’m thinking 200 is probably the

to build on this:
in addition to being immune to damage, they’ll need to be immune to condis or otherwise unepidemicable, otherwise epidemic makes them a suicidal noob trap.

now, if you allow condi applications on them, there’s already a mechanic in place to handle soft cc: break bar regen. tune appropriately without raising the max break health so high that weak ccs can’t kill.

I rather like the idea.

but it sounds programming intensive.

I don’t really see the epidemic issue as a problem, because it has counter play. You can notice someone stacking condi on turrets and detonate them, potentially providing CC and damage. And, if one profession has a great counter to the build… well isn’t that just GW2 PVP in a nutshell? Counters being a major aspect arguably over skill. Some things will simply be your counter and worth avoiding. Other team has a necro, might not want to run a turret build, or do and test out their skill.

Either way I don’t really see it as an argument, counter play exists to it in both CC and epidemic, and they have power again against things that don’t counter them. While allowing an option against the counter (detonate).

I respect and agree with the concern, I just see it as a positive remark as it makes it seem all the more reasonable

to explain my thought a bit more:

it opens it up to wvw edge cases where the turret gets the aggro of several condi classes to stack up 9+ condis, doesnt die, and then the condis get spread to 5 other players. we just went through a round of this with downed players and revs being essentially traps. its why resistance now prevents/blocks epidemic. wouldnt want to see it pop up again, even in a (in some ways) harder to control form that encourages spying and trolling by opposing teams.

but no, counterplay and counters arent bad. i agree. id just rather not revisit terrain already covered, especially in a form that becomes more accessible to trolling.

Didn’t they just make it so Siege can’t be hit with Epidemic? So the code could be there to apply to turrets? I mean it’s a fringe case but yeah that would suck if you had a troll putting turrets on the edge of walls.

If not you could just put perma resistance on them? though I do think that allowing soft CC’s to take them down slowly isn’t a bad idea, and maybe make the toolkit heal and remove condi’s when hitting a turret with it? Ehh lots of potential ideas and details, but I’ll let the devs ponder that.

I understand the fear of turrets, but I think they could be done in a way that they wouldn’t be meta but would be an option and at least useable.

As an aside, did anyone ever really use turrets in WvW? I guess you could pretty well defend a camp or something, but I don’t think I ever brought them there other than as a screw around thing testing something.

not really but if they were made undamageable to anything but cc but still condi absorbers I think we’d see them xD

(though healing turret is always a mainstay, rifle turret was used not for the turret by the occasional sd build, and supply crate was the “only” elite pre-mortar kit)

I think Pre Nerf turrets were fine except for them being fully imune to conditions
and the Deployable turret trait as players could toss them into walls thus short range skills and melee couldnt hit them

they worked as intended and rendered enginer useless as soon they were destroyed

in the game’s current state they need their regen back and 60% Direct and condi damage reduction

as well as a whole redesign

Turrets where destroyed for the same reason that Spirit Weapons, Ranger Spirits, Elementals, etc where all made bad.

Anet had this idea pre-launch of giving every class npc summons. Post launch they quickly realized that npc gameplay was cancer, and quietly nerfed npc summons out of relevancy.

And thats great! Ai should make your life easier if you newbie yet, but shouldn’t bring you to the experienced guys level. New engi can run turrets with almost no harm, while leveling, after that he replaces them with combos, kits and fun engi staff

Best Turrets can hope for are cooldown reductions. Maybe even a 2nd burning stack on Flame Turret. lol

Seriously, though. I’d be happy if Thumper Turret was reduced to 40s and Rocket Turret got a measly 5s reduction from 50s down to 45-seconds. ;/

Dimes.6024:

And thats great! Ai should make your life easier if you newbie yet, but shouldn’t bring you to the experienced guys level. New engi can run turrets with almost no harm, while leveling, after that he replaces them with combos, kits and fun engi staff

No, is not great, is a waste of resources and opportunities. End game in this game is anything post 80, and its big. You spend less than the 2% of your character life leveling. Even worst: you dont do ANY leveling in sPvP… so.

Tools that play by themselves but don’t scalate with player skill (“Droneplay at first, garbage later”) are bad desing. Tools that are simple to understand but keep offering challenges (“Easy to learn, hard to master”), those are great design, and that’s the philosophy Anet should be using.

Ardid.7203:

Dimes.6024:

And thats great! Ai should make your life easier if you newbie yet, but shouldn’t bring you to the experienced guys level. New engi can run turrets with almost no harm, while leveling, after that he replaces them with combos, kits and fun engi staff

No, is not great, is a waste of resources and opportunities. End game in this game is anything post 80, and its big. You spend less than the 2% of your character life leveling. Even worst: you dont do ANY leveling in sPvP… so.

Tools that play by themselves but don’t scalate with player skill (“Droneplay at first, garbage later”) are bad desing. Tools that are simple to understand but keep offering challenges (“Easy to learn, hard to master”), those are great design, and that’s the philosophy Anet should be using.

The Healing Turret is the living proof of it, easy if its used as a healing placement, but his true potential relies on combo fielding and knowledge of blasts skills.

If they where only for leveling, might as well sent our healing turret to the trash tier no? after all it’s a turret right?

Ai cant be hard to master. Dats just ai.

Dimes.6024:

Ai cant be hard to master. Dats just ai.

Correctly controlling AI can still be “hard to master”, if such AI was well designed. Also, most turrets arent really that “intelligent” are they? Also, just look a the HT example.

Turrets (except HT) are not great, or even barely decent design. They are plain cheese/garbage, and need to be redone.

I think buffing turrets is really as simple as either lowering their passive effects while increasing the activated abilities, or making the activated effect of a turret on immediately when the turret is summoned, but turrets only last about 20 seconds or so and have shorter recharge as a result.

anyone who complains about turrets but thinks ranger pets are fine is a hipocrite

the only broken aspect turrets ever had was deployable turrets latching turrets onto walls
and condition imunity ,
the reason turret engi became popular during the " OP turret" phase was because that was when the condi meta was starting and rabid gear was the most popular before it got replaced by carrion

my turret wishlist would be to:
remove the duration, while not really a problem for most of the game, PVP revolves around defending a point, and it sucks when my turrets randomly die after 5 mins.
(apparently the duration was added to fix a bug during the early days)

yes, as OP suggested, give them back their auto repair, it could be bundled in a trait if need be.

allow them to crit! (based on precision of the engi)
when turrets were changed from being counted as objects (which caused them to be uncrittable and immune to condis) the devs didn’t give them the ability to crit, so now you can be running the most crittastic build in the world and your turrets will never do anything other than flat non-crit damage.

i will add that i still do play unranked Spvp as my turret engi, and it is still fun,
but i know it isn’t really practical.