Guild Wars 2

I dunno why ANET hates turrets lol, they need some love. They do less damage than other options so are not competitive in normal content and can barely survive normal content much less harder content. Also the only way to boost turret damage outside of traits is condition damage, and with the removal of Rifle Turret bleeds that only works for 2 turrets now.

My suggestion:

1. Buff turret armor and hp. Thumper turret gets a large increase, flame turret gets a medium increase, all other turrets get a small increase. They are pitifully easy to kill, have large hitboxes, and are stationary.

2. Give Rifle Turret a 1 second bleed on all shots, both normally and during automatic fire. While keeping the vulnerability. There are still better options lol. Also add the 1 second bleed to the Surprise Shot toolbelt skill.

3. Give Thumper Turret a 1 second burn when you use it’s “Thump” active. It’s a slow windup skill that you can only use every 30 seconds.

4. Add a 20% cooldown reduction into the trait Autotool Installation on top of the auto-repair.

5. In WvW zones turrets should get a 50% AOE damage reduction buff to give them some small chance in heck not to immediately melt and then be on a long cooldown.

EDIT: removed accelerant packed turrets suggestion as it was inaccurate.

It would also really help if they bothered to do something about the bloated buglist.

Turrets problems aren’t going to be solved anytime soon. Anet has actually been focusing on turrets for a few months now but without a clear goal for them, turrets haven’t progressed much and in some cases…have even taken steps back. Imo anet should stop focusing them for a while and work on other skills/traits that can be fixed quicker

No disputing that Turrets need attention. But I think Anet loves Turrets, it’s just the endless problems that come from trying to figure out precisely how to balance them. If they give them too much then engineers who choose to take one will be rewarded just as much as the ones who take 4 ect. Similar to the problem with Gadgets currently but I digress.

Also Accelerant Packed Turrets causes Turrets to knock back regardless of how they are destroyed and all turret detonation is a blast finisher.. So I can only assume you mean by choosing this trait it would yield an additional blast finisher? Which I feel is unnecessary particularly since there is already a trait that functions similar to what you ( I assume) are proposing. Deployable Turrets can achieve two blast finishers if detonated before they land.

And since I am completely unaware of Anets long term vision for turrets I can’t really speak on your other preposed changes.. But like I said, Turrets do need some attention. So it’s hard to disagree with anything at this point.

Personally i would like a change to the Turret Pick up mechanic, to allow you to literally pick them up like an enviromental weapon and carry them to safety or into battle. When approached and “Picked up” They could replace your weapon skills with:
1)Fire: Fires basic rounds.
2)Overcharge:Activates basic overcharge.
3)Pack: This could stow your turret how the current Pick Up mechanic works.

And naturally, like any enviromental weapon swapping weapons ect would cause you to drop your Turret where you stand.

This, I feel would cause Turret Based Engineers to essentially have several pseudo Kits that can be picked up, and activate their abilities seemlesly then drop them and move onto the next Turret as the situation deems necessary. This I feel would alleviate some of the issues I find with Turrets as well as making an innovative mechanic and play style and would also open up a vast array of unique combos! Like sprinting up to your opponent holding your turret and detonating it on them, or perhaps the previously mentioned trait Deployable Turrets would give a 4th Skill Throw: That would allow you to toss them.

Just trying to think like an Engineer.

For me, just fixing Deployable Turrets so turrets would benefit from Rifled Turret Barrels when thrown as well, would be a huge buff. At the moment I’m more or less forced to ignore the trait just so my turrets can actually get their damage and range boost.

Do like how the Supply Drop turrets also get Accelerant Packed though….

I like that they do, but I’d love it if they received all Traits relating to turrets you deploy seeing as, they are in fact Turrets you deploy.

well i had some ideas on how to improve turrets:

1) remove “metal plating” and “autotool installation”, placing these as baseline for all turrets since they are just about never taken anyway due to how soft turrets are to begin with and these hardly help with that anyway… (plus 2 points to achieve the same thing? cmon)

2) bump “rifled turret barrels” down to 2nd tier to give more diversity in using turrets as a whole.

3) this leaves us with 2 trait slots with nothing so… a new trait for tier 3, “Fortification” which causes your turrets to periodically drop mines (we have a serious lack of mines) in a random location around them to a maximum value per turret. and also significantly increasing mortar health while making also granting protection for the user.

4) because automated response in alchemy is just about useless, replace it with “elixir turret mods” causing turrets to periodically poison nearby enemies for a few seconds and grant a short boon based on the turret to nearby allies. (10 second pulse cooldown 3 second durations?)

5) this would just leave one tier 1 slot with nothing in for the inventions traitline which im not entirely sure what to do with… perhaps a trait to give additional effects on gadget use? maybe dropping different fields

It’s simple:
-fix the ridiculous amount of bugs pleaguing turrets
-let them scale with stats
-see how it works out and revisit the issue (This will be the earliest point to even consider balance changes- I suggest to start with traits)

However it’s also simple that:
-engineers are fine overall in pvp
-some engineer builds are even arguably op in pvp
-pvp matters most regarding balance
-fixing stuff has a much lower priority than toning down outliers for anet
-there’s been no mentioning of any fixes, buffs or anything for a year, nor the upcoming season

I don’t mean to sound offended or to break your hopes but let’s face it: turrets are a toy and will stay that way for quite a long time. Try to have fun anyway or quit your profession due to grief.

Anymras.5729:

It would also really help if they bothered to do something about the bloated buglist.

Well, yeah, it’s pretty much my hope that while actually changing some of the skills that are bugged they would fix the bugs related to them.

Stalima.5490:

well i had some ideas on how to improve turrets:

1) remove “metal plating” and “autotool installation”, placing these as baseline for all turrets since they are just about never taken anyway due to how soft turrets are to begin with and these hardly help with that anyway… (plus 2 points to achieve the same thing? cmon)

2) bump “rifled turret barrels” down to 2nd tier to give more diversity in using turrets as a whole.

3) this leaves us with 2 trait slots with nothing so… a new trait for tier 3, “Fortification” which causes your turrets to periodically drop mines (we have a serious lack of mines) in a random location around them to a maximum value per turret. and also significantly increasing mortar health while making also granting protection for the user.[/quote]

With the Armor/HP buffs I have in mind these would be of worth, specifically with flame and thumper turret. The traits would also be what helps keep some sort of limiter on the turrets in sPVP. Because they would be strong at point defense you still have to give up your trait points.

It means turrets will likely be a little weaker than they would be if sPVP didn’t exist, but we still have to make sure we don’t imbalance that area of the game. Though a baseline increase to mortar hp and giving protection to the user would not be uncalled for.

4) because automated response in alchemy is just about useless, replace it with “elixir turret mods” causing turrets to periodically poison nearby enemies for a few seconds and grant a short boon based on the turret to nearby allies. (10 second pulse cooldown 3 second durations?)

I want them to better and to have good condition basing but this seems a little much. Poison is a powerful condition and being able to apply that in an AOE, along with a boon for allies, is too big of an addition and is difficult to justify.

5) this would just leave one tier 1 slot with nothing in for the inventions traitline which im not entirely sure what to do with… perhaps a trait to give additional effects on gadget use? maybe dropping different fields

Same as above, turrets still need to have the investment cost to prevent you from being able to use turrets at full strength along with other things and doing it better than a turret build.

Escadin.9482:

It’s simple:
-fix the ridiculous amount of bugs pleaguing turrets
-let them scale with stats
-see how it works out and revisit the issue (This will be the earliest point to even consider balance changes- I suggest to start with traits)

However it’s also simple that:
-engineers are fine overall in pvp
-some engineer builds are even arguably op in pvp
-pvp matters most regarding balance
-fixing stuff has a much lower priority than toning down outliers for anet
-there’s been no mentioning of any fixes, buffs or anything for a year, nor the upcoming season

I don’t mean to sound offended or to break your hopes but let’s face it: turrets are a toy and will stay that way for quite a long time. Try to have fun anyway or quit your profession due to grief.

I don’t believe this would actually break sPVP balance at all. Rifle Turret even in it’s buffed state is not going to be an sPVP threat at all. Rocket Turret will essentially be the same but slightly harder to destroy, Thumper turret is laughably avoidable. Flame Turret would be the only one that would see any real buff that would matter in sPVP

As someone else alluded to, some of the suggestions here are great but we can’t do them all at once. First things first, the bugs need to be fixed so we can see where turrets truly are.

The first thing I would change (assuming we aren’t calling bug fixes “changes”) are the trait distributions. Investing in all the turrets is not only very expensive in terms of trait points, but they’re also scattered all over the place.

Once those traits get more consolidated then I would evaluate turrets again at that point and see what they need in terms of mechanics issues.

No worries friend, Net turret is being nerfed!! Why you may ask? Because the stun/ immobilize on supply crate is being deemed op (it is unless you look at skills with much shorter cd, pin down, spider’s, etc) and it’s entirely to hard to nerf the specific crate on the drop so they are just nerfing net turret altogether, enjoy!!

Adamantium.3682:

As someone else alluded to, some of the suggestions here are great but we can’t do them all at once. First things first, the bugs need to be fixed so we can see where turrets truly are.

The first thing I would change (assuming we aren’t calling bug fixes “changes”) are the trait distributions. Investing in all the turrets is not only very expensive in terms of trait points, but they’re also scattered all over the place.

Once those traits get more consolidated then I would evaluate turrets again at that point and see what they need in terms of mechanics issues.

Hmmm, see, I’m of two minds about this. On one hand that would be nice and convenient. However on the other that is directly reflective of alot of trait lines in this game and I think the investment required would allow them to make those turrets more powerful overall. Afterall if you can split spec and get full turret traits then you cannot very well have them as strong as if it required a full investment.

All of that kind of remains moot in their current state of power though.

Dolt.2731:

No worries friend, Net turret is being nerfed!! Why you may ask? Because the stun/ immobilize on supply crate is being deemed op (it is unless you look at skills with much shorter cd, pin down, spider’s, etc) and it’s entirely to hard to nerf the specific crate on the drop so they are just nerfing net turret altogether, enjoy!!

Yeah I randomly caught that video. Even the guy saying it was kind of amused that he said they would be nerfing a turret. However that doesn’t mean that net turret will stay in that state. Its possible it could end up getting a lower cooldown, higher range, lower time between shots, etc eventually to help make up for that nerf.

Though honestly Net turret is still one of the most consistently useful turrets and one you don’t have to invest in anything for it to be useful.

Ralathar.7236:

Yeah I randomly caught that video. Even the guy saying it was kind of amused that he said they would be nerfing a turret. However that doesn’t mean that net turret will stay in that state. Its possible it could end up getting a lower cooldown, higher range, lower time between shots, etc eventually to help make up for that nerf.

I don’t think they’re stupid or play a restricted dev only build of the game where turrets work perfectly fine either. They ought to know how bad turrets are currently, but the question is: when will they fix it?
It’s been like that for how long? Engineers are getting a few nerfs if anything in the upcoming season so it will be another couple of months until they even start thinking about it. Even if they did priorize turretfixes in the following season(no idea what the chances are), they will hardly fix/change everything in one patch.
There is probably no chance that turrets will be fully viable before winter at that rate and honstely I doubt I’ll be even playing the game anymore by then :/

They’ve been aware of the turret buglist thread on the Game Bugs board for six months now.
In that time, the only Turret-specific bugs I can immediately recall being resolved have been Net Turret completely ceasing function upon overcharging, and RTB’d Rocket Turret spawning an incorrect version of Rocket Turret.
Both of these issues were hotfixed shortly after their introduction, and only made fleeting appearances on the buglist.
An attempt, I think, was also made to resolve Overcharge issues with RTB, but it failed – now the Overcharges work with RTB, but deactivate the range bonus afterward.

In the end, a list that was already in double-digits when it was first written has ascended to very nearly thirty items.

And they haven’t done anything about the vast majority of them, instead insisting upon attempting to balance what’s broken, as if they think that they can tweak the damage, etcetera, just right to make it a nonissue. Or as if they simply don’t care that this set of skills is heavily bugged.

At this point, I think it’s the latter.

Heh, looking at the recent year’s worth of patches, one can only assume that Anet thinks we all run only Grenades, hate having any other backpack besides our kit hobosacks, and are too OP to be left in our current state without a few nerfs. :-P

Mount up a hobosack and forget about your turrets for now. I’m sure in another year or two they’ll see some fixes and buffs, but for now you’d do better running ’nades.

Would like bigger turret hitboxes, so we can actually use them as meatshields. That will make for very interesting gameplay.

I’d like more condensed traits and higher base durability.

After, that just a few QoL buffs to cooldowns and damage numbers will make them competitive with kits.

Turrets are already squishier than wet paper, making the hit boxes even larger I don’t think will result in anything positive.

Combined with meaningful durability buffs, then I could see that possibly being interesting. There’s a LOT of things I would want to do first though.

Adamantium.3682:

Turrets are already squishier than wet paper, making the hit boxes even larger I don’t think will result in anything positive.

Combined with meaningful durability buffs, then I could see that possibly being interesting. There’s a LOT of things I would want to do first though.

There was a thread awhile ago about how they already have large AoE hitboxes, but targeted attacks miss them for whatever reason.

I’d like it if they could block targeted attacks.

Based dev post.

Truly a miracle. Hope shines on us all this day.

All the plebeians in their non-devposted threads are looking on in awe right now.

My gears squeal with glee!

Josh Davis.6015:

There’s a considerable amount of bugs being worked on for turrets currently. (Special thanks to Anymras for putting the list together.) I know these things don’t happen as quickly as we (and you) would like to see them, but it’s a comin’.

I guess they do care. Theoretically. The code must be a mess of Lovecraftian proportion.

Awesome, thanks for the post Josh.

I really look forward to play a turret build again.

For some reason they decided to remove burning from rocket turret. It’s ok if a warrior nukes you with burning while hitting like a truck, it’s not if an engineer stacks some burning while dealing some decent direct damage too?

Josh Davis.6015:

There’s a considerable amount of bugs being worked on for turrets currently. (Special thanks to Anymras for putting the list together.) I know these things don’t happen as quickly as we (and you) would like to see them, but it’s a comin’.

Understatement.
Of.
The.
Year.

I’ve heard this story before.
And can we actually get some kind of commitment as to when these will get fixed???

^^ You heard this story before because it’s the nature of something being a bug. They can’t make a commitment on WHEN they will be fixed because that means they would know what’s wrong and how to fix them.

Aegael.6938:

Based dev post.

Truly a miracle. Hope shines on us all this day.

All the plebeians in their non-devposted threads are looking on in awe right now.

I got a dev post on my turret thread faints in shock. Holy moley, der is a Lyssa!!

Josh Davis.6015:

There’s a considerable amount of bugs being worked on for turrets currently. (Special thanks to Anymras for putting the list together.) I know these things don’t happen as quickly as we (and you) would like to see them, but it’s a comin’.

I’d like to personally ty you for coming to this thread and showing that you guys are listening and do care. Objectively I know this is true anyways, but these reinforcements really help keep people going and invested in the game.

I understand the list is considerable and bugs can be difficult creatures, to say the least. Thank you for your work being a voice here on the forums and a thanks to all who are working on the game. It has some minor issues (like mah turrets!!) but it’s been a great ride and I’m extremely appreciative you guys have provided the opportunity for me to enjoy such a finely crafted game. Collectors edition and have been here since day one for a reason.

Let it not be said it’s a thankless job at least: “Thank you all once again for your hard work.”.

Aegael.6938:

Based dev post.

Truly a miracle. Hope shines on us all this day.

All the plebeians in their non-devposted threads are looking on in awe right now.

Yeah, considering my mains are both necro and engineer, I’m both happy to see this, and jealous of the love at the same time. (Necro’s haven’t gotten a dev post for over three months and I really think there are some topics worth discussing, but I’ll stop complaining now)

I’ve had a turret engi sitting in one of my character slots just waiting for the day a buff arrives to make him viable. It looks like that day is coming.

I would love to see turrets upgradeable, for example:
Rocket Turret
Stage 1:
Damage 600

Stage 2:
Damage 700
Apply 1 sec burning on hit

Stage 3
Damage 800
Apply 2 sec burning on hit + 2 sec knockdown

We would have upgrade instead of overcharge on like 20 sec cd, so if we keep turret alive for minute, then we get pretty strong killing machine., we need hitbox fix and improved defense first…

Step #1 Don’t nerf the immobilze on net turret which nerfs our only useful elite supply drop. You could also like change elixer x. Instead of giving us a random chance at 2 bad elites from other classes something unique would be nice.

I’ll believe something is happening when it’s shown that it’s happening, personally.

Turrets have been, as far as anyone on these boards can tell, ignored, except for ill-advised attempts to balance them and a holding action to reduce new bugs, for at least the last six months.

That said, if they fix these issues, that makes the build I would like to use…well, not “This is some bull, look at these bugs.”

Obtena.7952:

^^ You heard this story before because it’s the nature of something being a bug. They can’t make a commitment on WHEN they will be fixed because that means they would know what’s wrong and how to fix them.

must be one helluva bug to last 6+ months…makes you wonder.
Don’t be naive, it is a matter of resources, not know-how. That’s what has me bitter.

Well, speaking of net turret, the most annoying thing to me about it is that they claim that they’re nerfing net turret to indirectly nerf the supply crate, but in doing so they nerfed the ACTUAL net turret skill, which rarely sees use. Single target CC/immobilize that works half the time.

Of course they claimed they nerfed ranger shortbow autoattack for “animation reasons” so it’s not the first time they nerfed something and gave terrible reasoning for it.

Not sure how else they could handle this but I would like if placing a turret didn’t remove it’s tool belt skill.

If they’d spend half as much time working on turrets as they spend on reassuring us that things are gonna change then turrets would be perfect right now.

Let’s be rational: It’s not in ANET’s interest to have an entire mechanic plagued with bugs, there for, they are working on it.

From what i know of programming, when something is so messed up and full of bugs, you dont fix it. You start again from nothing. Much easier than trying to see through the whole code and spot an anomaly. Yet alone 20.

lakdav.3694:

From what i know of programming, when something is so messed up and full of bugs, you dont fix it. You start again from nothing. Much easier than trying to see through the whole code and spot an anomaly. Yet alone 20.

Or nearly thirty.

If their solution is to recode the entire skillset, that’s probably for the best, honestly. They can’t so much as change a number in the current system without it breaking something – since the Rifled Turret Barrels buff, Deployable Turrets haven’t gained the range increase from RTB, for example.

Anymras.5729:

lakdav.3694:

From what i know of programming, when something is so messed up and full of bugs, you dont fix it. You start again from nothing. Much easier than trying to see through the whole code and spot an anomaly. Yet alone 20.

Or nearly thirty.

If their solution is to recode the entire skillset, that’s probably for the best, honestly. They can’t so much as change a number in the current system without it breaking _something – _ since the Rifled Turret Barrels buff, Deployable Turrets haven’t gained the range increase from RTB, for example.

Not to mention the whole design with turret self-destruction and overcharges is completely off. They created so many skills involving them that their reduced skill bar system (which is a fundamental of the game) can’t support it. They compromise they made was to lock out tool belt skills while turrets are deployed, meaning you can never get the whole package while using the turrets.

And healing turret, well… that’s not even a turret, it’s just a glorified water bomb (that everyone happens to love, mind you).

Well, who knows? We might see some cool changes in the balance patch aside from the net turret nerf.

I’m not totally against the nerf to the net turret (3s -> 2s), but if they’re going to nerf the immobilize duration why don’t they return the firing period from 13s back to 10s where it was supposed to be the whole time? That only seems fair because the problem people are having with it in Supply Drop is the initial net shot, not the firing speed.

Also, when the rifle turret’s overcharge was changed from a bleeding shot to a vuln shot, they also reduced its overcharge shot damage by half without mentioning it in the patch notes.

Also, please remove the arc from the rocket turret’s overcharge. Just make it a straight shot. You cannot overcharge that turret in buildings or caves because it just fires directly at the ceiling and gets wasted.

Also (again), many of the underwater versions of turrets are running stats from a previous patch, and are more buggy with trait interactions.

Also (again again), Deployable Turrets has a similar problem. When you enable the Deployable Turrets trait, your turrets get replaced with versions that can be thrown. Unfortunately, those alternate turret versions are also from a previous build and are more buggy with trait interactions. This is really unfortunate because I think Deployable Turrets has the potential to be one of the most fun traits to use.

And finally, turret health is a problem. I’m not arguing that it should be increased in pvp or even wvw, because players generally deal less damage than mobs. But I am saying that turrets should have more health in pve zones. 71% more health – the exact same bonus that necromancer minions recently got in pve. That’s only fair.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Anymras.5729:

lakdav.3694:

From what i know of programming, when something is so messed up and full of bugs, you dont fix it. You start again from nothing. Much easier than trying to see through the whole code and spot an anomaly. Yet alone 20.

Or nearly thirty.

If their solution is to recode the entire skillset, that’s probably for the best, honestly. They can’t so much as change a number in the current system without it breaking _something – _ since the Rifled Turret Barrels buff, Deployable Turrets haven’t gained the range increase from RTB, for example.

Not to mention the whole design with turret self-destruction and overcharges is completely off. They created so many skills involving them that their reduced skill bar system (which is a fundamental of the game) can’t support it. They compromise they made was to lock out tool belt skills while turrets are deployed, meaning you can never get the whole package while using the turrets.

And healing turret, well… that’s not even a turret, it’s just a glorified water bomb (that everyone happens to love, mind you).

Well, who knows? We might see some cool changes in the balance patch aside from the net turret nerf.

The last time I was optimistic was when they first acknowledged the thread.
I figured there might be a month or two before the bugs started being resolved.

While it would be nice for them to actually do something about the myriad non-bug issues of Turrets, I just can’t muster any kind of enthusiasm.

Anyone thought about mobile turrets? Have a trait to give turrets the ability to move. I am sure the asure has some gadget to make them move. Like the other post someone made, our technology is so out of date.

It’s been thought of. For a while, that was ‘the big thing’ in trying to make Turrets viable – a Grandmaster trait that would make them mobile, with RTB being moved to Master, Metal-Plated fused with Autotool and put at Adept. I think this was after the great Make Turrets Attack Your Target (which Anet bollocked the implementation of, for those who actually wanted it).

No idea how it would have worked in conjunction with Deployable Turrets.

Darkoray.4570:

Anyone thought about mobile turrets? Have a trait to give turrets the ability to move. I am sure the asure has some gadget to make them move. Like the other post someone made, our technology is so out of date.

Although this has been put forth by quite a few people, the main reason I would be opposed to this is that it would make it one of those traits that you must run if you choose to use certain skills.

For instance, you’ll be very hard pressed to find an engineer that runs grenade kit without grenadier, a ranger that runs spirits without spirits unbound, or a staff ele that doesn’t run blasting staff. If mobile turrets gets put in, anyone who tries to run turrets will be very much expected to run such a trait, and likely considered a total noob if they don’t.

Additionally, the art assets for turrets would need a big overhaul to not look completely moronic as a mobile entity, and I don’t really feel it’s a good investment of time to do that.

Furthermore, simply making turrets mobile wouldn’t fix many of the actual issues with turrets. It could even cause more problems since the AI controls how those things move. I mean, imagine you pop your healing “turret” (let’s be honest, that thing isn’t a turret), and it decides to wander off before you can pick it up properly. Now you have to chase down your turret to pick it up, or just detonate it even if you don’t want to.

So I truly think it’s better to just leave them stationary and adjust them in ways they really need (i.e. more durability, less buggy targeting and attacking, impactful functionality that doesn’t rely on gimmicks, not locking out of tool belt skills, &c.).

Yamsandjams.3267:

So I truly think it’s better to just leave them stationary and adjust them in ways they really need (i.e. more durability, less buggy targeting and attacking, impactful functionality that doesn’t rely on gimmicks, not locking out of tool belt skills, &c.).

I second this. If they make them work better as Turrets, and synergize with the user more effectively, then the lack of mobility might not be such a problem

In order to be more mobile in a turret build, I think the toolbelt skills we get need to be better. I think they should be solid enough to be standalone skills, since for a good amount of time they are all a turret Engineer can use. This post turned out a little longer than I first intended, but I wanted to really explain why I feel the toolbelt skills are not enough for a turret Engineer currently.

Healing Turret – Healing Mist: Meh. This turret is so good (not in the way it should be) that it doesn’t really matter what this toolbelt is, but if it worked how turrets should work this toolbelt skills is really weak. A few options would be making the water field 3 seconds long, giving it much longer Regeneration, or adding a small heal (few hundred) to it.

Rifle Turret – Surprise Shot: This one is okay. It’s good for SD builds. It fits the Rifle Turret. Its cooldown allows it to be used frequently, and it’s a projectile finisher, so not too much to complain about.

Flame Turret – Throw Napalm: One of the only things turret related to have received buffs recently. This skill is good, and it fits the Flame Turret. Cooldown is modest (as is the turret) so you’re able to use it when your turret is down.

Net Turret – Net Attack: Cooldown is horrendously long. I understand that professions can’t be compared apples to apples, but think back to when Personal Battering Ram used to be 45 seconds cooldown. We were all annoyed because it’s basically a clone of the Warrior’s “Kick” with over twice the cooldown. Eventually that got reduced to what it is now. Same thing needs to happen with Net Attack. Throw Bolas is a 20 second cooldown. In addition it does damage, has 50% more range, 33% longer duration, and is a projectile finisher. Net Attack is a 45 second cooldown. No damage, no finisher. It needs some combination of reduced cooldown, more range (600 range is not good for the Engineer who at a minimum has 900 range on either weapon they equip), damage, or projectile finisher status.

Thumper Turret – Rumble: Not sure where to start with this one. 1s Stability is sort of silly, I know we’re not a Stability heavy profession and I’m okay with that but 1s Stability is sort of pointless. If it prevents any incoming CC it’s more due to sheer luck than actual counterplay on the Engineer’s part. For being a stun breaker (that you can’t access with the turret actually being alive… that’s another discussion entirely) I get the 45 second cooldown, but it’s in terrible combination with a turret that also has an excruciatingly long cooldown. Both of those together is really bad for gameplay, and ends up in that utility being just a dead slot far too often for Turret Engineers who already can only play with their weapon skills most of the time. I don’t feel anything about this skill justifies the long cooldown except that stun break. It has weak damage and range. The stun break idea needs a do over, it’s a fundamental issue that it won’t even work when the turret is alive. You have to blow up a 50s cooldown turret just to get at a stun break. That needs a rework. If that is done, then this toolbelt skill can get a balance pass down to a much much lower cooldown, 20s range. It just doesn’t do enough to warrant the crazy cooldown it has right now. I mean just compare it to Magnetic Shield, which untraited is just 2/3 (!) of the cooldown of Rumble. You get the reflect and knockback along with the blast finisher. This makes Rumble look really weak.

Rocket Turret – Rocket: Conflicted about this one. I like that it fits thematically, you can shoot a rocket 1500 range, and it does great damage. The insanely long travel time of this skill makes that 1500 range nothing more than a number though. This can really only be used in close range if you want it to be effective. That part needs a fix really badly. I get it, you can hit people on walls in WvW and that’s fun, but you’re not doing anything productive by doing that and it’s not a merit of the skill. Targeted would be so much better, and actually synergize with Static Discharge like many of the other turret toolbelt skills (SD would be a good trait to take in a turret build for this reason). The cooldown is okay, but again it’s paired with an agonizing 50s cooldown for the turret. When the turret dies you can shoot 1 rocket. That probably won’t hit unless you’re standing on top of your target. Sigh.

I went a little hard against these toolbelts here, but I honestly don’t feel like they fill the purpose they were made for which is making a turret Engineer feel like they didn’t just waste all their utility slots when their turrets die. Part of the problem is that turrets are just down too long. Cooldowns are too long. Even if all the bugs were fixed I feel like turrets in their current state (intended current state) would not be enough to warrant some of the cooldowns they have, namely Rocket and Thumper turrets.

IMO not just turrets that are lackluster, when I see light classes actually performing better over medium classes on all aspects , then something is very wrong indeed. Engie as well as another medium class need full attention on its lacklustre base stats, hideous cooldowns and lackluster and less than viable stats to perform at its best. Less nerf, more help is the key. If a mesmer can take off massive amounts with phantasms, yet a immobile turret that cannot do damage on explosion as standard, are not affected by stats and pretty low base damage to boot is a rum deal at best. And while you are at it, I would like an engineer version of turn into moa , I think turning a mesmer into a useless little robot would be quite hilarious

Well.. i recently made my 2nd char, a mesmer and im just stunned at the underperformance of the turrets compared to the phantasms. The speed you can dish em out (not a pro at all but i get 2 “attack phantasms” and a normal one out faster then i could deploy 2 turrets) , the dps they deliver (specially the duellist and the berserker from my current personal experiences) and the nice addon that they are to the very end usefull (shatter em in the face of the enemie)..and smart enough to target the enemie you point them at. They also distract the enemie quite effective while you stand back in peace and throw your ranged stuff… or charge the next load of phantasms to throw at the enemie. I used to think i just suck with turrets on the engi… but thats only partly true as i felt now on my own. I used to dismiss the underperformance of the turrets greatly… but man.. they utterly blow like they are atm…

Of course its not fair to compare one of the engineers many “ways” with the main mechanic of another class…but really, even if the phantasms would be half as good as they are.. the turrets would still utterly blow…