Guild Wars 2

I see some people asking advocating for Gyros that can’t be damaged, but what type of counterplay could be used against them? The only way that I can see Anet balancing this is having Gyros be on extremely high cooldowns so that they can’t be used often because they can’t be attacked. And no one would use Gyros because of the insanely high cooldowns. Look at ele cantrips, there’s not a whole lot of counterplay to them so they’re all have nearly minute long CDs. I would personally like to see Gyros with ~3K more health and more toughness instead of a cooldown increase. Now, I could be missing something, but this is how I perceive undamageable gyros

Familiar at all with Signets or Revenant energy-cost skills?

I wouldn’t want all gyros to be invulnerable to damage. Just seems to be a lazy way to make them not die instantly.

Give them more hp and give the function gyro protection when you stomp/res and i’m happy.

And there’s still counterplay even if u can’t damage them. Dodge/block, Reveal the sneak one.
Only one without counterplay would be bulwark one & purge one.

Nothing ‘lazy’ bout it. This would change them from being just more horrible AI minions, a skill type that has yet to be implemented properly for the past 3 years. A set of which Engi already has and surprise surprise sees no use. The only time AI skills have been used is for gimmicky pub stomping PvP builds.

the effects of which are instant. As for counterplay they’d have more than signets for example, which for the most part have fast cast times and immediate effects. Eg. a Cele Necro casts Signet of the Locust which results in instant lifesteal and boon corruption. For Gyros they’d still have to physically travel within parameters like range even if they can’t be destroyed. Which is another aspect of why they’re so horribly underpowered and won’t see use without a rework.

glenndevis.8327:

Only one without counterplay would be bulwark one & purge one.

Bulwark: Indirect damage is the counterplay (burst anything near it and it will die)

Purge: is only effective against small quantities of condi’s, against a condi build you are still going to need a lot more condi cleanse

What’s the counterplay to signets?

What’s the counterplay to mantras?

What’s the counterplay to toggle abilities (rev)?

I think most people who are asking for gyros to be unkillable also want them to be balanced around being unkillable.

Also, in PvE, enemies don’t have to worry about counterplay. I had a lot of fun playing spirit weapons in PvE and now I can’t because PvPers wanted “counterplay” and Anet hates splitting skills even if it hurts PvE build diversity.

For those who don’t want them to be unattackable, one of the great options I’ve seen is make them rely on a break bar. They take very little damage, but you can still damage them. If the break bar is broken then they blow up.

Ok So my Gyro suggestions. I’ll just be posting ideas not numbers will leave that up to you. I like the idea of gyro’s circling the scrapper when they are in the utility slot. And none combative. That being said I would rather then function more like a signet Giving a small passive effect and an active effect.
Medic gyro-
Passive a small heal over time.
Active purge of conditions and an area heal over time
Tool belt. Same as before maybe a initial healing when active added

Purge Gyro turned into toxic tyro
Passive- On critical shoot poison dart.
Active- Produces a poison field in a line like the fire horn skill of elementalist.
Tool Belt- Either a poison field as is just a little stronger or a dark toxic field ground targeted

Blast Gyro-
Passive I’m not sure possibly a fury on crit or when critically hit Or maybe a fire bolt
Active- A laser blast in a line in front of the scrapper Or a Missile/mortar barrage
Tool Belt: I’d rather see quickness then supper speed

Bulwark
Passive – Chance of reduced damage through force field
Active- no damage for short time for those within a close range
tool belt- defense field as is is very nice

Shredder -
This one I’m not sure on Have a few ideas since it is decent just low damage.
Passive- gives increased crit chance
Active drops a spinning top as it does now
tool belt- same just able to ground target it
Other suggestion is to actually turn this one into a kit that drops traps The shredder as it is, a spinning flame trap, a electrical exploding trap But giving a trap kit that the gyro drops onto the ground. both sound good for this gyro.

Stealth gyro
passive smoke puff in combat releases a blinding smoke puff every so often
active – grants stealth for a set time and gives super speed to match that time or quickness
tool belt is good as is
As for Function gyro. I think there should be two that show. One would be just for rez and stomp as it is now. The other being the true core mechanic. Giving a buff based on friendly field your in. Active function absorbing field or copy field. Allows you to store a field for later use. Possibly granting a boon based on the field in storage or just waiting for it’s release.
If field is released then it would do an effect and leave a field at location of the avatar. It would go on a cool down so you can’t drop a field and then pick it back up quickly.
The field being stored could also effect the gyros in some way if possible. Those are just suggestions. And the mechanic is just tweeked a little from another posted on another thread.

All items in this post have a counter play that other mechanics have in other professions. Dodging, cool down timer on them fields you can avoid. Just like any signet with passive abilities.

If you only play PvE or only PvP, I suggest World of Warcraft.

In GW2 you can do both very easily without a ton of effort.
Welcome to Tyria, friend.

According to Irenio the “counterplay” to druid crippling and dazing everything in an AoE is, in his own words, to “just get out of there”, so really counterplay means the exact same thing Riot Games uses it for: Whatever we want to be easily wrecked and made useless by even the tiniest amount of effort on your opponents part.

There is no counterplay to banners, who buff the group just as spirits do & they can even be picked up & replaced.

I don’t see a reason why gyros have to have counterplay in the first place.
I already posted how to rebalance them around their invulnerability & the reason why a vast myority of us requires them to be invulnerable is because they will be useless in 2/3 gamemodes otherwise & massively underperform in the 3rd.

Even if they bring them in line with turrets former, tanky state, they would become merely viable in PvP & still pop everywhere else instantly. There is something people forget about turreteer: Even on their peak, turrets were still garbage in Dungeons/Fractals & WvW.

glenndevis.8327:

I wouldn’t want all gyros to be invulnerable to damage. Just seems to be a lazy way to make them not die instantly.

Give them more hp and give the function gyro protection when you stomp/res and i’m happy.

And there’s still counterplay even if u can’t damage them. Dodge/block, Reveal the sneak one.
Only one without counterplay would be bulwark one & purge one.

I don’t see this being “lazy”, you have signets, facets, mantra, which could be a solution. Give more HP? Then we will have the problem we had with turrets: unkillable, tanker, and we will still have the kittening problem of weird movement as the ranger pet for which rangers are crying since the release. If the gyros are signets or facets using a “fuel” system we can then just do the animation of gyros like the hammers overing around the revenant.

It is really hard to see such a determination of looking for counterplay in EVERY thing that do the engineer, when other class specialization are very strong.

Seriously: we already have a super speed that does not stack, a lockdown only useful if you take gyros, and traits lines with big problems in terms of synergy such as explosion, tools and even who would want to use the scrapper spec with a rifle or a pistol??? This spec has been poorly designed with a focus on counterplay rather than a focus on what it would bring to the core engineer.

I think an interesting idea would be to leave them with average health, make them unhealable, and then remove the fuel limit of them, so they stick with you doing their thing until they’re taken down. This would at least be fun for open PvE.

Alkalissa.1706:

I think an interesting idea would be to leave them with average health, make them unhealable, and then remove the fuel limit of them, so they stick with you doing their thing until they’re taken down. This would at least be fun for open PvE.

They would remain useless everywhere else. How is that a noticeable improvement?

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Alkalissa.1706:

I think an interesting idea would be to leave them with average health, make them unhealable, and then remove the fuel limit of them, so they stick with you doing their thing until they’re taken down. This would at least be fun for open PvE.

They would remain useless everywhere else. How is that a noticeable improvement?

Yup. And they would still be useless in 80+ open world scenarios.

I have taken Flesh Golem out for a spin during all three of the BWE and it has died much too frequently for my liking.

Chaba.5410:

Familiar at all with Signets or Revenant energy-cost skills?

or mantras? (that would be mechanically the best implementation possible)

Arantheal.7396:

There is no counterplay to banners, who buff the group just as spirits do & they can even be picked up & replaced.

I don’t see a reason why gyros have to have counterplay in the first place.
I already posted how to rebalance them around their invulnerability & the reason why a vast myority of us requires them to be invulnerable is because they will be useless in 2/3 gamemodes otherwise & massively underperform in the 3rd.

Even if they bring them in line with turrets former, tanky state, they would become merely viable in PvP & still pop everywhere else instantly. There is something people forget about turreteer: Even on their peak, turrets were still garbage in Dungeons/Fractals & WvW.

fact is almost all of them have such an underwhelming effect that even if unkillable, i don’t know if i would take them!
blast gyro? better throw mine
shredder gyro? probably the best out of the pack, but what it that poison field on toolbelt?
condiclense gyro? i clean faster with hgh build
bulk gyro? max health is REALLY low, especially in group situation
healing gyro? doen’t even compare to warrior’s signet
stealth gyro? he doesn’t even stealth himself

and all do not keep up with you and are timed.
SERIOUSLY.

I main engi since 2y now. Hammer is good, traits are decently good. But man gyros need much work.
Making them invunerable is the priority thing to do!

Gaaroth.2567:

Chaba.5410:

Familiar at all with Signets or Revenant energy-cost skills?

or mantras? (that would be mechanically the best implementation possible)

Yup. With fuel/health being charges.

Wells could also be another skill type to emulate. Would make more sense as many of the Gyro effects are AoE.

The best option is one that combines both mantras and wells.

each gyro performs one function i dont see why they cant be unkillable like signets with gyros as visual effects except for stealth gyro

Rezzet.3614:

each gyro performs one function i dont see why they cant be unkillable like signets with gyros as visual effects except for stealth gyro

Exactly. You have a passive effect and an active effect on target that goes on cooldown. No buggy AI. No HP issues. Usable in multiple game modes.

Chaba.5410:

Rezzet.3614:

each gyro performs one function i dont see why they cant be unkillable like signets with gyros as visual effects except for stealth gyro

Exactly. You have a passive effect and an active effect on target that goes on cooldown. No buggy AI. No HP issues. Usable in multiple game modes.

+1

/15unkillableGyros

Rezzet.3614:

each gyro performs one function i dont see why they cant be unkillable like signets with gyros as visual effects except for stealth gyro

It is a fine suggestion mostly. All the effects need to be re-worked to fit this though. Lower durations, lower intensity, etc.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Rezzet.3614:

each gyro performs one function i dont see why they cant be unkillable like signets with gyros as visual effects except for stealth gyro

It is a fine suggestion mostly. All the effects need to be re-worked to fit this though. Lower durations, lower intensity, etc.

i mean i like them but they need to work like turrets pre holocaust nerf and be uncrittable and resist condi damage by at least 30% if they want us to use gyros with short duration times and Not impressive HP dev already stated they have no armor so from tha alone we can assume they will be nuked before they even physically spawn in combat