Guild Wars 2

So.
In the number 9 slot I have my FlameThrower, which isn’t usable underwater (yet still, the Burning condition DOES work underwater, go figure).
So I put in something else there…lets say…Slick Shoes which have a cooldown of 60 seconds.
I use Slick Shoes and suddenly the fight is over short after, I get on land and…lo and behold, my FlameThrower now suddenly have a 50+ second cooldown.
Gotta hand it to you ANet…….a standing ovation.
When can we expect a fix for this ? Christmas ?

I’d sooner expect our toolbelt skills changed to keep the cooldowns (both underwater and in land) than this to be changed; I’m pretty sure this is not an actual bug but a design choice, probably to prevent you from stacking effects while underwater and fight on land with them. it’s also common to all classes so not sure this is the place to complain about it.

Yea, my bet is that also covers other classes too…haven’t checked that out yet.
But putting a minute long cooldown on my Flamer is like putting a cooldown on the main weapon of any other class.
Considering how kitten the devs are it is probably a design choice, yes….but come on, are they really THAT lousy at coding, they can’t find another way to prevent stacking !?
God forbid that we will get fights that requires you to enter and exit water, time and time again.

well I guess it hurts engineers more because of kits, but on the other hand, toolbelt skills work the opposite way. And I do take advantage of that when I can (diving and hitting f1-f4 for elixirs, going back on land and have fresh cooldowns) so I can see why they want to prevent it from happening with normal utilities. Imagine having thieves go underwater for triple poison or signet activation and then going on land for a rampage with their normal stuff.

maybe the answer is to just have the cooldown switch to the land skill you are using, so if u used a underwater skill with 60 seconds cooldown and you go on land after 30 seconds and have a 40 second cooldown skill slotted in the same place, it would just have 10, instead of 30.

I have no idea what else you are using in your build, but maybe try to use EG for underwater fights instead of slickshoes? it would be in the same slot so no cooldown. I know it’s not the fix you are hoping for but at least you’d get rid of that cooldown.

I’m running
7 – Elixir Gun
8 – Whatever I feel for at the moment
9 – FlameThrower

I guess fooling around with the skill placement is a workaround.
But I’m still amazed that ANet is just slapping in a cooldown without even bother to consider how it will affect the different classes…espically Engineer.
How hard is it to code in a cooldown on the individual skills instead of the slot itself ?
How hard is it to give Engineers (and Elementalist) weapon swap ? scrap weapon swap on elementalist
How hard is it to give Engineers 2 torches for a makeshift FlameThrower instead of a lame weapon kit ?

Torch in main hand = FT 1, 2 and 3
Torch in off-hand = FT 4 and 5

Hybelkaninen.3087:

I’m running
7 – Elixir Gun
8 – Whatever I feel for at the moment
9 – FlameThrower

I guess fooling around with the skill placement is a workaround.
But I’m still amazed that ANet is just slapping in a cooldown without even bother to consider how it will affect the different classes…espically Engineer.
How hard is it to code in a cooldown on the individual skills instead of the slot itself ?
How hard is it to give Engineers (and Elementalist) weapon swap ?
How hard is it to give Engineers 2 torches for a makeshift FlameThrower instead of a lame weapon kit ?

Torch in main hand = FT 1, 2 and 3
Torch in off-hand = FT 4 and 5

Because these are design choices for the class mechanics. Whe don’t have a weapon swap, therefore we have kits with a much shorter cooldown and eles have their attunements. Imagine eles could swap their attunement and their weapon. They would have a pool of 45 skills in combat. That sounds a little OP to me.

Hybelkaninen.3087:

How hard is it to give Engineers (and Elementalist) weapon swap ?

Probably pretty hard as they’d have to rebalance (read: nerf) both classes if they did it.

Did some math on it maybe a little over half a year back, and engineers and elementalist can have a potential 40+ abilities available to them at any given point thanks to attunements + conjures and weapon kits respectively. No other class comes close to that versatility. And yes, I know, people don’t want to be versatile, people prefer to niche themselves into a specialization, whether that be 100nades all condi bleed or staff support w/ boon duration or whathaveyou. The point is that these two classes were designed for extreme versatility, and to give them even MORE versatility (a second weapon set would make it closer to 50-ish abilities for the engi, and a whopping 65-ish for the ele, compared to the max of 11-ish for most other classes (the only other one to have such a massive degree of potential skills would be the banner-based warrior, methinks)) would mean they would have to be even LESS proficient in specialized roles.

Just trust me, you’re better off not being like me and taking everything into consideration when pondering changes. Ignorance is bliss.

Le edit: Seems ripAnubis had the same thoughts as me, but I’m still pretty certain that my old calculations yielded somewhere in the 45 range for amount of possible skills for the elementalist even before weapon swapping is taken into consideration. :P

Jigain.8231:

Hybelkaninen.3087:

How hard is it to give Engineers (and Elementalist) weapon swap ?

Probably pretty hard as they’d have to rebalance (read: nerf) both classes if they did it.

?? How much more can you nerf the Engineer without making them a complete junkpile ?
Right now we’re jumping through a dozen hoops, just to make them viable.
Weapon swap on Elementalist…yes, I can see that would maybe be overpowered.

ripAnubis.5817:

Because these are design choices for the class mechanics. Whe don’t have a weapon swap, therefore we have kits with a much shorter cooldown and eles have their attunements. Imagine eles could swap their attunement and their weapon. They would have a pool of 45 skills in combat. That sounds a little OP to me.

I’m sorry here, but…“fast kit swaps” is THE lamest argument.
We got mediocre main weapons which is balanced out by mediocre-to-good weapon kits…..and the kits themselves requires us to give up a utility slot.

To me it seems like all our “pro’s” have at least 2 “cons” humping it’s leg.

But whatever, weapon swap wasn’t the real point of this, but rather the cooldown with “Water VS Land” =)

Because I can be obsessively compulsive when it comes to numbers, I re-did the same thought experiment I used back in the days. Here’s a calculation on the total amount of different abilities the classes in question can pull off. Where necessary, I’ve specified which skills I was considering. Number in (paranthesis) is a running tally.

Engineers:

5 weapon skills (5)
1 healing skill – Med Kit (6)
1 profession skill – Bandage Self (7)
5 kit skills – from Med Kit (12)
1 utility skill – Bomb Kit (13)
1 profession skill – Big Ol’ Bomb (14)
5 kit skills – from Bomb Kit (19)
1 utility skill – Grenade Kit (20)
1 profession skill – Grenade Barrage (21)
5 kit skills – from Grenade Kit (26)
1 utility skill – Elixir Gun (27)
1 profession skill – Healing Mist (28)
5 kit skills – from Elixir Gun (33)
1 elite skill – Elixir X (34)
5 weapon skills – from Elixir X (39)

Amount of extra skills from weapon swap: 5, total 44

I was a bit off on the number from what I recalled; I seemed to recall the amount of skills for the engie was in the early 40s, but as it turns out they “only” have a potential of 39 abilities. Let’s move on to the elementalist – I shortened that one a little for the sake of brevity, from reading the detailed engineer one you should understand my reasoning without me spelling it out again.

Elementalists:

4 attunements (4)
5 weapon skills times 4 attunements (24)
1 healing skill (25)
3 utility skills – Conjure Frost Bow, Flame Axe, Earth Shield (28)
5 conjured skills times 3 conjures (43)
1 elite skill – Conjure Fiery Greatsword (44)
5 conjured skills – from Conj. Greatsword (49)

Amount of extra skills from weapon swap: 20, total 69

And just for comparison, I picked a random remaining class to do a comparison of. The short straw fell of the thief, so after a detailed look into what utility and elite skills they could pack that gave them extra abilities to use (hint: there were none), here’s a summary of how many skills a thief would have if they could not weapon swap, as well as if they can (as they do) swap.

Thief:

5 weapon skills (5)
1 profession skill – Steal (6)
1 healing skill (7)
3 utility skills (10)
1 elite skill (11)

Amount of extra skills from weapon swap: 5, total 16

25 minutes well spent, in my opinion.

I run nades and 2 turrets underwater. Nades, tool kit, and net turret on land. I literally fight on land then jump underwater. Activate turrets and the overcharge pull the, in with harpoon gun then jump back on land and no irregular cool downs. So it may only effect certain skills then. I live and die by it in wvw. On occasion I notice my heal skills share this weird cool down thing when switching land and water. H turret on land and medkit underwater. Can we see if this for sure applies to all skills?

JUst got home to test this and sure enough the weird cd’s r there….Funny enough before the patch this wasnt the case

It works the same for all classes. CD’s between “land” and “underwater” utilities and elite are shared.