Guild Wars 2

I have full Ascended medium gear, and am looking at changing to either Engi or thief. However…I have some pretty awesome Rifle and hammer skins already collected and was wondering if there is a viable Power Engi/scrapper build (preferably Rifle, but hammer is fine) for Raiding. I understand that condi engi is the current meta…but I’m not a huge fan of the engi pistol skills. I dont mind using kits, but preferably not an all kit build.

Anyone got anything up their sleeves like this?

You can still run the old power meta dungeon build with either rifle or hammer (very little difference between the two), but they’ll perform less than a well played meta condition engi build (especially on the Vale Guardian fight).

If you really want you can drop a kit or two, but this will again be a big hit to your dps since max dps is only attained through 3 kit swapping.

It should still be technically possible to clear raids with something like this. It’s been proven that a group full of fully exotic geared players on budget gear can clear through all the raid fights.

However, doing this will just make the encounter harder for you and your group. While your performance at handling boss mechanics is the #1 factor in success, DPS comes second and a power-based engi is simply lacking compared to the condi meta.

I would offer two options for advice:
1) Get ahold of sinister trinkets from living story achievements and bandit crests (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_trinket). Get the Insignia and Inscription recipes for Viper’s stats (exotic quality) from Auric Basin and craft 6 insignias, 2 inscriptions. Craft 2 rabid ascended pistols. Change the stats of your armor and pistols to Viper’s with the Mystic Forge. Be awesome as a Viper/Condi engi.

2) Give your berserker set to your thief and play the max dps thief build. While thieves aren’t in a great place for raids due to not doing anything particularly unique or ideal, they do still work well and can fit in a group that already has enough condi dps, ranged dps, and boon support.

I know that’s probably not what you want to hear…but it’s the reality of the situation. =/

Thanks for the feedback, pretty much what I guessed. Really is such a shame how every class is forced into using 1 build, 1 set of weapons. Cant understand how this is not more of an issue to devs. May end up going thief then, which saddens me, Really love the new Timekeepers rifle skin.

Galbedir.9178:

Thanks for the feedback, pretty much what I guessed. Really is such a shame how every class is forced into using 1 build, 1 set of weapons. Cant understand how this is not more of an issue to devs. May end up going thief then, which saddens me, Really love the new Timekeepers rifle skin.

This is wrong, not every class is forced into one build. Power engi has a much easier rotation and hits its max dps easier. Condi engi has a higher dps cap, and if that whats important to you, than use it. Its not like its weak at all. People use Power reapers in raids when berserkers do more damage and so do revs, and thieves, but they still use power reaper. Power engi is still great on dps and usefulness

Heyhey!

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoClYh1aBubB0ehFIkiOP/zCFMb6mT4LAimpB-TBCBABjqSQlq7cmSQs2fUeAwFAIPdAlpELgHAApAGYZE-e

This is the standard DpS power Engi for raids. About the traits tough:

- at Sabby instead of grenadier, glass cannon
- at not 100% fury uptime (if it ever happens) instead of pinpoint distribution, no scope
- if you lack mobility or sustain and don’t really need dps like against vale guardian, use 312 instead of 333 at scrapper

Power engi is a very very strong profession. Our guild always wants one in our team for ANY encounter in the current raid. He can do so much to help the team. Condi engi is only good for the red adds at VG, everywhere else go for power builds if you have multiple sets.

- greez Ziggy!

Galbedir.9178:

Thanks for the feedback, pretty much what I guessed. Really is such a shame how every class is forced into using 1 build, 1 set of weapons. Cant understand how this is not more of an issue to devs. May end up going thief then, which saddens me, Really love the new Timekeepers rifle skin.

Yea, there’s not many professions out there that have multiple ideal builds, but that’s the nature of the content and isn’t really specific to GW2. Any time you have a really high difficulty type of content added, it will push players to go for the absolute ideal build. Sometimes a class may have multiple ideal builds (such as warriors having PS and Condi), but they’re generally for different roles.

I would say that power engi should be solid for Fractals now that they tuned down the toughness on high level mobs. However, for raids, power builds, while still strong, just get overshadowed by condi that just does all the same stuff power does, but better. The only real advantage power has is on short fights and trash mobs due to not relying on damage over time.

Also, keep in mind that you can still use rifle power builds in most places in the game. Raids are the only one spot where it really becomes an issue.

Dahkeus.8243:

However, for raids, power builds, while still strong, just get overshadowed by condi that just does all the same stuff power does, but better. The only real advantage power has is on short fights and trash mobs due to not relying on damage over time.

Wrong. The only reason why you take a condi engi is because he deals great damage against the red add of VG and provides good cc with FT and support with super speed. But if the red add wouldn’t exist, noone would take a condi engi.

Condi engi got overhyped recently, but have you ever encountered VG with an on pair power engi? Yesterday I’ve had my highest crit on him, 36k with barrage only and up to 9k nade autos. VG has ultra low armor, condi damage doesn’t care about armor.

As for gorseval, it’s very simple why condi engi is worse: Slick shoes. Condi engi loses too much dps when he swaps out a kit and will never be able to keep up with the power engi dmg. Gorsy also moves often → not cool for napalm.

As for sabby again, low armor, even tough a bit more than VG, but much less than in fotm 50+. There they are pretty much even.

Yea, big crits don’t mean big dps. It’s pretty much been calculated and proven that on long boss fights, condition dps far exceeds power dps. Just cuz you saw a cool looking big crit doesn’t mean that the total damage you do over a period of time exceeds that of a build that puts out a lot of smaller damage numbers. You need to do more than say “omg I saw big numbers!” to prove high dps, especially when there’s a psychological bias that often incorrectly backs up this premise.

Everything we’ve seen so far has put power dps below condi on long fights and while the lower armor of some bosses may play some degree of a favor to power, you’re still arguing for a spot in a group that will usually be more likely to need a condi engi for the VG fight.

The Gorse points are really splitting hairs since there’s a dps loss that hits power builds when you pick up slick shoes too. I’m not even sure how you think that Gorseval moves too much for Napalm, especially with his huge hitbox.

So you can claim all this if you want, but the proof so far isn’t in your favor.

Group with condi engi killing VG with over 4 min left on timer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny5kJAkXfVQ

Group with condi engi killing Gorseval with over 3 min on timer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzJKRmci8pk

Group with condi engi killing Sabetha with over 2:45 on timer (tempest PoV):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuGKPIZsbps

You really reduce my input down to a “big crit”-comment to shred it’s meaning… Nvm, tough, it’s only one rather disrespectful or rather disgraceful aspect of leading a discussion …

It’s a fact that pre patch, dps have been calculated for past fotm 50 to be more worth to use a condi engi instead of a power engi, because of some dps. Condi engi was about 22-25k dps, power about 18-22k, but less dps is less dps so noone cared how much behind power really was.

Now the hammer gave only a minor damage boost indeed, but it’s also a fact that raid bosses have significantly lower armor than high fotm enemies. So:

The VG vid shows nothing what I didn’t say either: You require 2-3 condi professions for red add, yet if you have more engis, engis who are focusing on VG itself, they should go for power based damage output. VG has insanely low armor, power engi will deal about 33% more damage for sure against VG itself.

Against Gorsy the lack of one kit will ofc hurt the condi engi more. Condi engi has only one or two AWESOME skills on each kit, yet what makes condi with missing a kit so weak is because condi has no strong aa. Have you seen the damage numbers of burst skills like napalm, fire bomb, IA or blowtorch compared to their auto attacks like nades or pistol? Or even compared to the average skills like pistol 2 and 3, or bomb 3 etc. A power engi does not suffer from that. He has the same excellent burst skills, but still got a solid aa. The no glider challenge worked because of the warriors, not the engi. They could have used a power engi too, or even swap a profession out for a necro and send all the glory to him like he was the cherry on the ice cream cub – sounds familiar, doesn’kitten :P cough DNT cough

And then there is sabby, where she has low armor, some of her adds low and some medium armor, but overall it’s the same game again: Less armor than in fotm, but more than VG tough, I’d say here both professions are pretty much on the same level of damage output, but I like power more because of the mesmers quickness. Alacrity helps both, condi and power, but quickness only truly helps the power engi #better aa. Also there’s more utility and the possibility to go ranged in the last phase where druid goes in, but that’s a different story than dps.

I don’t want to destroy you here, I’d rather like to recall that “famous” players are only humans aswell. Don’t beleve everything they say and recommend. I mean just look what DNT did to the air sigil :P Sure if you truly follow the so called authority bias, you also won’t beleve me, wich basicly is good IF you do so because you have made expiriences yourself instead of watched videos where someone did something and it worked for a reason other than what it seems.

Don’t hate me for that statement please. I just try to be nice

greez
- Ziggy

Ok, if you continue to get grumpy with me not taking everything you say at face value, there’s not much to continue here in the way of a discussion. I acknowledged and commented on every point you made, so there was no parsing of your post to a single point.

- You’re claiming that the raid bosses have less toughness, but there’s no measure of how much of a difference this makes in dps just as there’s no measure of what exactly the boss toughness is.

- Already replied the same point you just re-itereated about Gorse.

- Yes, it’s possible that power is being underestimated, but there’s just not much proof of that out there right now aside from your anecdotal experiences.

- Quickness also helps condi. There’s no icd on shrapnel or sharpshooter, so more AAs also means more condis.

- Even if power dps does even dps with condi, it’s a hell of a lot easier to find a group as condi since groups have limited options for good condi dps, whereas it’s easy to find power dps.

Xyonon.3987:

I don’t want to destroy you here…

Really? This is a forum post, not a rap battle. Stick to the facts and leave the cool internet guy act behind.