Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
Warning: Do not roll an engineer
I would argue that engineers can be harder to play, but not necessarily. Some rearranging of hot-keys can solve that, as can a mouse with 2 extra buttons.
… and as people are saying, engineers can be a blast to play. Consider this situation I had a while ago in PvP:
A warrior is coming after me. I was playing a largely grenade/bomb based engineer with dual pistols. I drop a goo shot to slow him down, he keeps coming. I know I have to run, so I flip to grenades and hit him with an ice grenade, slowing him again. Dang, he’s determined, and keeps coming after me. Switch to bombs. drop smoke bomb and sticky bomb. Keep running iwth the knowledge that my goo shot is almost back up again.
Hee hee hee!
I would argue that engineers can be harder to play, but not necessarily. Some rearranging of hot-keys can solve that, as can a mouse with 2 extra buttons.
… and as people are saying, engineers can be a blast to play. Consider this situation I had a while ago in PvP:
A warrior is coming after me. I was playing a largely grenade/bomb based engineer with dual pistols. I drop a goo shot to slow him down, he keeps coming. I know I have to run, so I flip to grenades and hit him with an ice grenade, slowing him again. Dang, he’s determined, and keeps coming after me. Switch to bombs. drop smoke bomb and sticky bomb. Keep running iwth the knowledge that my goo shot is almost back up again.
Hee hee hee!
We are great escape artists, that’s true.
Again, as with everything: other professions have builds that are BETTER escape artists.
That’s one issue with your story, the other is this:
What if you would have turned around and fought him, with your bombs, grenades and dual pistol?
You ran, and you could have kept running.
And than you’re even in a dps focused build with grenades and bombs and dual pistol.
You are using all out damage and control skills!
Your build isn’t even versatile I assume, it’s dps.
Imagine what a truely versatile engineer build could do in that situation?
Even less than you…
That’s how ‘versatile’ engineers are by design.
You were using dps skills all over, and you ran…
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
I would argue that engineers can be harder to play, but not necessarily. Some rearranging of hot-keys can solve that, as can a mouse with 2 extra buttons.
… and as people are saying, engineers can be a blast to play. Consider this situation I had a while ago in PvP:
A warrior is coming after me. I was playing a largely grenade/bomb based engineer with dual pistols. I drop a goo shot to slow him down, he keeps coming. I know I have to run, so I flip to grenades and hit him with an ice grenade, slowing him again. Dang, he’s determined, and keeps coming after me. Switch to bombs. drop smoke bomb and sticky bomb. Keep running iwth the knowledge that my goo shot is almost back up again.
Hee hee hee!
We are great escape artists, that’s true.
Again, as with everything: other professions have builds that are BETTER escape artists.That’s one issue with your story, the other is this:
What if you would have turned around and fought him, with your bombs, grenades and dual pistol?
You ran, and you could have kept running.
And than you’re even in a dps focused build with grenades and bombs and dual pistol.
You are using all out damage and control skills!Your build isn’t even versatile I assume, it’s dps.
Imagine what a truely versatile engineer build could do in that situation?
Even less than you…
That’s how ‘versatile’ engineers are by design.You were using dps skills all over, and you ran…
Because I was only level 20-odd at the time, new to the game, and just watched this dude smoke two of my friends. I decided fleeing was the way to go at the time.
Anyway, my argument was: I found this very entertaining, which is really why I play Guild Wars 2, in the end.
Also: my main’s a warrior now that I have experience in the game, so I won’t argue your point about engineers, it’s quite valid.
(edited by Videshi.5371)
I would argue that engineers can be harder to play, but not necessarily. Some rearranging of hot-keys can solve that, as can a mouse with 2 extra buttons.
… and as people are saying, engineers can be a blast to play. Consider this situation I had a while ago in PvP:
A warrior is coming after me. I was playing a largely grenade/bomb based engineer with dual pistols. I drop a goo shot to slow him down, he keeps coming. I know I have to run, so I flip to grenades and hit him with an ice grenade, slowing him again. Dang, he’s determined, and keeps coming after me. Switch to bombs. drop smoke bomb and sticky bomb. Keep running iwth the knowledge that my goo shot is almost back up again.
Hee hee hee!
We are great escape artists, that’s true.
Again, as with everything: other professions have builds that are BETTER escape artists.That’s one issue with your story, the other is this:
What if you would have turned around and fought him, with your bombs, grenades and dual pistol?
You ran, and you could have kept running.
And than you’re even in a dps focused build with grenades and bombs and dual pistol.
You are using all out damage and control skills!Your build isn’t even versatile I assume, it’s dps.
Imagine what a truely versatile engineer build could do in that situation?
Even less than you…
That’s how ‘versatile’ engineers are by design.You were using dps skills all over, and you ran…
Because I was only level 20-odd at the time, new to the game, and just watched this dude smoke two of my friends. I decided fleeing was the way to go at the time.
Anyway, my argument was: I found this very entertaining, which is really why I play Guild Wars 2, in the end.
Also: my main’s a warrior now that I have experience in the game, so I won’t argue your point about engineers, it’s quite valid.
No no, there is more to the story guys-
—And then that one thief—that one that you thought you saw but decided he was probably not interested in the goings on—pops HS on you and you are 100 blades by a little asura with an afro while mesmer walks in with an electric guitar singing freebird. The end.
ED. by the end, I mean, this would be a fitting end to this thread too…
Just call me Lunar
(edited by Lunar Corporation.5720)
Because I was only level 20-odd at the time, new to the game, and just watched this dude smoke two of my friends. I decided fleeing was the way to go at the time.
Anyway, my argument was: I found this very entertaining, which is really why I play Guild Wars 2, in the end.
Also: my main’s a warrior now that I have experience in the game, so I won’t argue your point about engineers, it’s quite valid.
Of course I couldn’t know why you actually ran, could have been a lot of reasons.
Mostly I pointed at the fact that as engineer, that’s often the right thing to do…
You’re right about the fun factor.
Kiting someone from one end of the map to another IS fun.
Engineers certainly have that fun factor, and it’s that what is hinted at with the term ‘versatility’.
Being that Jack of all trades (master of none…) as well as being unpredictable.
It’s why I love the profession so much.
But that is also why I ask the devs to drastically BUFF our so called versatile builds!
In the end there is no succesfull versatile engineer build to be found.
I keep saying it over and over: the only good engineer builds are the least versatile…
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
I’m no expert, but that’s worth considering. How do we buff versatility, however? What exactly defines a versatile build, and in what regard?
What specifically could be buffed without overpowering less versatile builds?
No no, there is more to the story guys-
—And then that one thief—that one that you thought you saw but decided he was probably not interested in the goings on—pops HS on you and you are 100 blades by a little asura with an afro while mesmer walks in with an electric guitar singing freebird. The end.
ED. by the end, I mean, this would be a fitting end to this thread too…
Elixir S is your friend.
No no, there is more to the story guys-
—And then that one thief—that one that you thought you saw but decided he was probably not interested in the goings on—pops HS on you and you are 100 blades by a little asura with an afro while mesmer walks in with an electric guitar singing freebird. The end.
ED. by the end, I mean, this would be a fitting end to this thread too…
Elixir S is your friend.
Elixir S AND Self-Regulating Defenses AND Inertial Converter are your lovers.
Pannonica
Red Guard
Red Guard
Engineers certainly have that fun factor, and it’s that what is hinted at with the term ‘versatility’.
Being that Jack of all trades (master of none…) as well as being unpredictable.It’s why I love the profession so much.
But that is also why I ask the devs to drastically BUFF our so called versatile builds!
In the end there is no succesfull versatile engineer build to be found.
I keep saying it over and over: the only good engineer builds are the least versatile…
What are you talking about, at anytime outside of fighting you can drastically change the way you play for the current situation.
I personally have been running around WvW with dual pistols and Elixir B, S and U. I seem to do fine on my own and in groups.
If I happen to see a small group attacking a keep, I get in there, switch out to flamethrower and melt down their ram and keep melee’s from just pounding on the door. If they don’t have a ram, I switch to nades and keep them away from the door and if you catch them off guard, pulling out the mortar can do some big damage.
If I’m with a zerg and we’re plowing through people, I switch to the flamethrower and help plow through people, if we have a huge zerg vs zerg I switch out to elixir gun(healing, damage and CC) for support and also drop some turrets, also another nice time to pull out the mortar and catch a bunch of people off guard and possibly turn the tide.
I absolutely love how versatile the engineer is and the way I’ve done my build(dual pistols, elixirs) I can on the fly(out of battle) go straight into being a flamethrowing engineer with the +200 toughness(plus might stacking) and 15% extra damage by giving up my piercing shots and my +20% longer elixir times.
I will say this, for a long time I only liked the idea of being an engineer and thought they were very under powered but I kept playing it, but I no longer feel that way.
Oh yeah… the wrench got a nice little upgrade, got a standoff zerg vs zerg, switch to your wrench and now you can pull targets for your zerg to kill. Quite handy.
Just remember this… the engineer is the jack of all trades and a master of none, once you realize this and just start switching out to a better option for the current situation, the better you’ll be.
No no, there is more to the story guys-
—And then that one thief—that one that you thought you saw but decided he was probably not interested in the goings on—pops HS on you and you are 100 blades by a little asura with an afro while mesmer walks in with an electric guitar singing freebird. The end.
ED. by the end, I mean, this would be a fitting end to this thread too…
Elixir S is your friend.
Elixir S AND Self-Regulating Defenses AND Inertial Converter are your lovers.
Right, nothing like making a push with a flamethrower and then finding out the push didn’t work so you pop your elixir s, heal while small and get away(most of the time).
Nastypiggy, when the devs mentioned we deserve a damage penalty for being so versatile, I’m quite sure they ment IN combat.
Swapping skills and traits ouside of combat is something every profession can do.
And what’s more: it implies you know exactly what’s coming and what will be needed.
Your own examples prove that we need 3 kits, several turrets and at least 2 elites to be versatile…
While I’m saying that we should have the traits and skills that allow us to be just as versatile with things we can actually equip at once!
I agree that your examples ARE versatile, but they are not versatile IN combat.
Versatility means being able to respond to many different situations you do NOT know in advance!
As you have shown: if an engineer builds like that, he either misses certain kits, or misses the traits to make those kits any good, or he misses certain protections and buffs from elixirs, or he misses things like turrets…
You simply can not make a single versatile build that can stand up to another profession on an equal playing level.
I wish we could.
I love my engineer, and I play it for the versatility.
Because of that I realise no versatile engineer build is a finished build. They always lack in so many places the total becomes weak.
I run 3 or 4 kits most of the time, sometimes using 1 stunbreaker with it.
My build is ALWAYS Jack of all trades, master of none.
But in every build I create, there is always so much of the traits that I actually need, that I can’t reach.
Every succesfull engineer build so far is focused on a more specified task like damage or bunker, or ranged aoe, or condition, melee tank, or healing bot, or booner…
Not a single succesfull engineer build is truely versatile.
This is the same for most professions, but they don’t get the crap about paying a price for being versatile and being good in medium range, wherever that is…
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
(edited by Kimbald.2697)
Nastypiggy, when the devs mentioned we deserve a damage penalty for being so versatile, I’m quite sure they ment IN combat.
Swapping skills and traits ouside of combat is something every profession can do.
And what’s more: it implies you know exactly what’s coming and what will be needed.Your own examples prove that we need 3 kits, several turrets and at least 2 elites to be versatile…
While I’m saying that we should have the traits and skills that allow us to be just as versatile with things we can actually equip at once!
I agree that your examples ARE versatile, but they are not versatile IN combat.
Versatility means being able to respond to many different situations you do NOT know in advance!
As you have shown: if an engineer builds like that, he either misses certain kits, or misses the traits to make those kits any good, or he misses certain protections and buffs from elixirs, or he misses things like turrets…
You simply can not make a single versatile build that can stand up to another profession on an equal playing level.
I wish we could.
I love my engineer, and I play it for the versatility.
Because of that I realise no versatile engineer build is a finished build. They always lack in so many places the total becomes weak.I run 3 or 4 kits most of the time, sometimes using 1 stunbreaker with it.
My build is ALWAYS Jack of all trades, master of none.
But in every build I create, there is always so much of the traits that I actually need, that I can’t reach.Every succesfull engineer build so far is focused on a more specified task like damage or bunker, or ranged aoe, or condition, melee tank, or healing bot, or booner…
Not a single succesfull engineer build is truely versatile.
This is the same for most professions, but they don’t get the crap about paying a price for being versatile and being good in medium range, wherever that is…
You mean know in advance, like you actually watch your surroundings or you run out of battle for 5-10 seconds and then put in what will help you more in the fight. If you can’t sacrifice 5-10 seconds you should be running a good 1v1 build anyway, if you’re in a group heading somewhere you have more then enough time to alter your current setup if you want to.
I hate to tell you this but I roll with what I said earlier… my dual pistols and elixirs, but you can switch out to become even stronger in certain situations. I don’t mind a thief or warrior burst damaging me because I have multiple ways of negating their alpha strike… like being exempt from damage for a few seconds(elixir s), healing up and then dodging(if need to) to prepare to continue the fight.
What I have learned is that too many engineers don’t try to learn how to be good, they just expect to be. You’re playing a class that isn’t really the strongest at anything, just very good at most things.
BTW… since the games come out, I’ve really only seen a handful of good engineers, the rest haven’t been very good at all(if I see them at all). I completely believe this class has a high learning curve but once you get past that you’re good to go.
Is the Engineer as good as any other profession?
No, all other professions perform better in their specialisations given an equivalent skilled player.If you want to dominate in any field of the game then roll something better suited to the task.
See this is where we have issues. Because not only are people having to deal with the poor post game design decisions like FotM domination but they get twice the aggrivation when playing an engineer because the engineer is the only class taxed for being versatile. Ele’s aren’t taxed anywhere near like we are for example.
Second, is the argument (and rightly so) that they claimed before they launched this title that no class would ever have problems in combat. That means, no class would be nerfed to the point of having to fight REALLY long fights because they were artificially nerfed. People seem to forget that in other titles we’ve seen this happen for years. LM were once so nerfed every battle too about 10 minutes even when fighting regular mobs in LOTRO. Priests took forever to kill anything and often couldn’t adequately solo anything in WoW in BC and WotLK early in the release. I could go on with other examples but you catch the point.
Their stance on combat just like their stance of the focus of this game title has changed and it’s unjust. So no you shouldn’t roll an engineer and not because you can’t 1 shot but because you can’t three shot in bunker build which is what happens in other classes. You can actually do that on every other class. Rangers were nerfed here recently and even they were brought back up to par. I know I have one of those too and felt the nerf when it happened added my voice to the complaints and that was fixed. It’s not demanding or wrong for us to want this class the most militant of all classes to actually do the damage that anyone with common sense knows it should be doing in pve. That’s not an insane request and the sooner people stop arguing that “oh it’s fine in pvp” or “oh it shouldn’t be the most powerful” and “only the elite can play this class and thats how it should be forever” and see that that’s not what people are asking for in these forums the sooner we can unite to get them to take it seriously.
Care about your community more.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
Can someone else please start a new “engie class is bad” thread?
I need more opinions.
Engineer is fine in most 1v1 situations with people that can’t kite you. So to the people that say they can stomp noob thieves or w/e, no kitten. See how you fare against oh I don’t know, a good rifle warrior or something.
Engineers are ok in SPvP because people are forced to fight on points, and the class strength is knocking people back which is very helpful for controlling points.
Now, more on the class strength, knocking people back is borderline useless in PvE and in WvW actually hurts you against any class that has ranged capability because our effective range is extremely short.
Strengths
Large ammounts of CC.
Fun to play – don’t see many people that see engineer is boring to play.
Weaknesses
Garbage damage. Anyone that tries to argue this hasn’t played other classes. Even my mesmer is a DPS powerhouse in comparison for gods sake.
Only short range class which survivability comes from knocking people away from us.
yeah this thread is done. mesmer heads up a scale, soloing jimi hendrix purple haze while sipping coffee
Just call me Lunar
engi with the correct gear, traits and runes is the best condition dealer of the game with pistol + shield
engi with the correct gear, traits and runes is the best condition dealer of the game with pistol + shield
What do you mean by “best?” Most diversity of conditions? Longest duration? Best damage? Highest stacking?
Because I dunno if you have seen how Necros can stack bleeds, chills and poison, but they can make them incredibly persistent.
Lv 16 eng, hits a lv 16 monster with a lv 15 pistol for 25 dmg, add a bleed to that.
Lb 16 warr/guard hits a lv 16 monster with a lv 15 axe/sword for 90/80 dmg, add bleed if warr.
a pleasure to level, no doubt. the warr / guard that is.
I’m no expert, but that’s worth considering. How do we buff versatility, however? What exactly defines a versatile build, and in what regard?
What specifically could be buffed without overpowering less versatile builds?
Versatility and effectiveness are two separate (but partially linked) aspects of play. A buff to any one skill/trait will be a buff in effectiveness (IE: the grenade nerf was a nerf in effectiveness). Versatility is found in the number of ways a skill/trait/build can be applied and the number of different goals (damage/control/support) it can effectively contribute to.
Elementalists are versatile not because they have skills that are particularly flexible in application (quite a few combo fields, so some are pretty flexible), but because they have a huge number of tools, each with specific applications, that work towards one goal or another. Not only do they have these tools (Engineers can be argued to have quite a few as well), but they carry a large fraction of them at all times (which we can emulate only with kit builds). We have more customization, they have more options overall… it should balance out, in practice we’re a little lacking since our versatile (kit) builds give us 5 options to pick 2-3 utilities from.
We’d have more available builds (and more builds that can avoid specialization without sacrificing usefulness) if we had more kit synergy in our traits (Things like the EG/FT or Explosives buffs being on the same traits… but not in a way that makes you spend 50 points to make one/both of them the center of your build), the ability to choose our toolbelt skills separately from our utilities (If I ever carry FT, I probably won’t want incendiary ammo), or some way to gain back utility slots when we carry kits (this sounds a lot like weapon swapping…).
To me, a versatile trait build would be a collection of traits that has roughly equal levels of effectiveness regardless of what utility/weapons I choose. A versatile set of skills would give me the option to support allies through heals/buffs or make trouble for my enemies through damage/conditions and controlling/hindering their movement without requiring me to drop out of combat to swap utilities.
Each kit gives us a little ability to do each of the non-damage roles, but not enough to be good at them with just that kit. From the standpoint of versatility this sort of thing encourages you, regardless of what role you want to focus on (outside straight easy damage, which they intend to punish us for), to carry as many kits as you can, and we wind up with fewer build options. The fact that we can’t trait flexibly doesn’t help. Bleed on crit is flexible, I can use it with any kit/weapon. Blind on crit with rifle is not flexible, I can only use it with the rifle. The same goes for things like grenadier and elixir infused bombs. Maybe kit specialization traits are good so you can claim some sort of focus with your build, but I don’t think they help versatility when only one or two show up in any given trait line. I’m under the impression that specializing kits would be better (Say I want a support option, I should have a kit, EG perhaps, that I can grab to enhance my support ability).
engi still crap – still waiting for a fix
suggestion: spam the “bug” forum with requests for fixing the engineer class
there was to much to read so excuse me if i repeat some thing that has already been talked about
First of ive been playing engi since i started which was a good 3 months ago, now i pritty much only play WvW and most of that time is spent solo roaming, apart from the more often then not getting stomped by zergs, engineers easily hold there own and they dont take a high amount of skill to play its simply getting your combos right not mashing buttons like a idiot, and lets face it theres a counter for everything and engineers are more then versatile to have a counter for everything and ive proven this time and time again, and to that nofo.8469 guy who said.
Engineer is fine in most 1v1 situations with people that can’t kite you. So to the people that say they can stomp noob thieves or w/e, no kitten. See how you fare against oh I don’t know, a good rifle warrior or something.
im genna be totally honest here and say that skilled thieves are pritty easy to beat for a smart engineer unless ure running the sd/grenade build then its just hilarious to fight thieves, and please find a skilled rifle warrior for me face the ones ive versed so far must be terrible players because rifle warriors fail so hard verses my engineer
there was to much to read so excuse me if i repeat some thing that has already been talked about
First of ive been playing engi since i started which was a good 3 months ago, now i pritty much only play WvW and most of that time is spent solo roaming, apart from the more often then not getting stomped by zergs, engineers easily hold there own and they dont take a high amount of skill to play its simply getting your combos right not mashing buttons like a idiot, and lets face it theres a counter for everything and engineers are more then versatile to have a counter for everything and ive proven this time and time again, and to that nofo.8469 guy who said.
Engineer is fine in most 1v1 situations with people that can’t kite you. So to the people that say they can stomp noob thieves or w/e, no kitten. See how you fare against oh I don’t know, a good rifle warrior or something.
im genna be totally honest here and say that skilled thieves are pritty easy to beat for a smart engineer unless ure running the sd/grenade build then its just hilarious to fight thieves, and please find a skilled rifle warrior for me face the ones ive versed so far must be terrible players because rifle warriors fail so hard verses my engineer
WvW players are terrible in general – nuff said…
there was to much to read so excuse me if i repeat some thing that has already been talked about
First of ive been playing engi since i started which was a good 3 months ago, now i pritty much only play WvW and most of that time is spent solo roaming, apart from the more often then not getting stomped by zergs, engineers easily hold there own and they dont take a high amount of skill to play its simply getting your combos right not mashing buttons like a idiot, and lets face it theres a counter for everything and engineers are more then versatile to have a counter for everything and ive proven this time and time again, and to that nofo.8469 guy who said.
Engineer is fine in most 1v1 situations with people that can’t kite you. So to the people that say they can stomp noob thieves or w/e, no kitten. See how you fare against oh I don’t know, a good rifle warrior or something.
im genna be totally honest here and say that skilled thieves are pritty easy to beat for a smart engineer unless ure running the sd/grenade build then its just hilarious to fight thieves, and please find a skilled rifle warrior for me face the ones ive versed so far must be terrible players because rifle warriors fail so hard verses my engineer
Engineer generally > Thief 1v1, good thieves are annoying and you wont kill them, but they wont kill you either unless you slip up.
Yeah, you have been up against bad rifle warriors. Even with the ideal spec (basically anything that doesn’t use rifles or grenades) its going to be an extremely tough fight.
Basically any class that can keep us at mid/long range for any length of time will demolish us, but this game is balanced around rock/paper/scissors mentality. If you are a condi engi and you run into a necro just save yourself the effort and sit down and die, likewise if a thief jumps you, well he shouldn’t have jumped you lol.
I exaggerated a bit on the warrior vs engi matchup, if the engi uses any variation of pistols then its in the engineers favor if the warrior spams skill while confused, but against a good warrior you still shouldn’t win unless you outplay him something fierce. But if its a rifle engi vs rifle warrior and the warrior loses, well kitten that’s one horrible warrior.
This is from my experience in TPvP and roaming WvW from about 1.5 months ago. IE before engi kits got nerfed into the ground.
actually in retrospect engi vs thief isn’t that one sided either. Pro thieves will dodge supply drop and if that happens or if you miss it for whatever reason, its a downhill fight for you (assuming they have thieves guild elite)
(edited by nofo.8469)
I love the feel of my engineer. I really do. But the kits I love using, grenades, bombs, and FT just FEEL so awkward to use. With grenades and bombs its the 11111111 spam, (yes, i do use the other ones too) and with the FT its the missmissmissmiss bugs. Give me a sniper rifle dps kit or something, take away the mortar and make it the new 30 pt elite =P.
I rolled a necro, and yes I am a glutton for punishment >_< stupid pets.
I did the exact opposite. I complain about necros in wvw and moved in to engineers. I think lyfe sux more as an engi is true.
- I infract cause I’m passionate about the game-
“ALL IS VAIN”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/gf-left-me-coz-of-ladderboar/page/6#post3486969
“ALL IS VAIN”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/gf-left-me-coz-of-ladderboar/page/6#post3486969
there was to much to read so excuse me if i repeat some thing that has already been talked about
It was here that I realised there was no point at all in reading the rest of your post.
Glad to be [Grey] – http://thegrey.enjin.com/home
Piken Square
Piken Square
Made engineer at launch, leveled him to 80, 260 hours played on that character later I made an alt warrior, leveled warrior to 80, placed engineer in LA, it now works as a lowly slave to my warrior.
On a more serious note. Will you have fun leveling this class? Yes. Will you have fun in end-game with this class? For a limited time, yes. Will you be on par with other professions? No. Will you make an alt and forget your engineer? Yes.
I believe I retraited once every day for about a month in search for one single build that I found viable, made sense, was fluent, was flexible, supportive, high dps, anything! Did I find anything? No. Almost actually, a few times but they always had a very annoying flaw that I couldn’t live with. I never felt complete as an engineer. On warrior I can roll whatever kitten I want and I feel like a complete, working, thought out profession.
That’s all I had to bring to this discussion..
Made engineer at launch, leveled him to 80, 260 hours played on that character later I made an alt warrior, leveled warrior to 80, placed engineer in LA, it now works as a lowly slave to my warrior.
On a more serious note. Will you have fun leveling this class? Yes. Will you have fun in end-game with this class? For a limited time, yes. Will you be on par with other professions? No. Will you make an alt and forget your engineer? Yes.
I believe I retraited once every day for about a month in search for one single build that I found viable, made sense, was fluent, was flexible, supportive, high dps, anything! Did I find anything? No. Almost actually, a few times but they always had a very annoying flaw that I couldn’t live with. I never felt complete as an engineer. On warrior I can roll whatever kitten I want and I feel like a complete, working, thought out profession.
That’s all I had to bring to this discussion..
I’m at the phase of creating a new build daily, just to find one that has at least the features I find fun.
If I want ranged damage, I’m almost forced to use grenade kit AND trait Grenadier. I hate that…
Other simular choices feel too forced as well, it’s just one example.
Rolling without a single elixir?
A stunbreaker on a terribly long cooldown, or use a gadget wich again ruins any elixir traits.
Simply use 3 kits and have a ton of skills that ammount to getting nothing done properly?
I’m trying out all sorts of builds, but there is one thing I can not find: VERSATILITY!!!
There is no valid versatile engineer build.
There are only specified engineer builds, and even those are sub-par compared to the equivalent of another profession.
Where is my stunbreaker on a kit?
Why are there so few traits buffing ALL kits?
Why are elixirs so bloody random with long cooldowns?
Why do pistols need 2 traits to barely reach 1050 yards and pierce? Why does the rifle only have 1 skill that actually has max range?
Why is my flamethrower so close range but misses at minimum range?
Why does the elixir gun hit so weak? It’s nothing but a healing elixir that removes conditions most of the time: swap in, swap out…
Nag nag…
But mostly this:
Where the hell is this so called versatility that is sooo good we have to pay a price for it?
next stage: try out a different prof just for laughs, just to see… maybe a guardian and see what the word ‘support’ actually means.
Not rerolling of course, just making a new character to compare a bit… sure.
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
Hello, I’m a warrior, a banner/warhorn warrior. Apparently that makes me better than all of you.
:s
Anyway, a little while ago I started knocking about with an engine alt.
Holy kitten am I having fun, so much so that I haven’t touched my warrior since I rolled this lil’ spitfire.
/0.02$
Edit :: I don’t just play pve or pvp, I play everything… like, you know, the whole kitten game, so maybe that’s why I’m having fun… with the game and all…
Boundaries are for the effortless.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.
(edited by nakoda.4213)
I guess you’re just one of those persons who don’t excel at anything and is okay with others carrying you. Well, GW2 is a game for everyone.
EU Aurora Glade
I love the feel of my engineer. I really do. But the kits I love using, grenades, bombs, and FT just FEEL so awkward to use. With grenades and bombs its the 11111111 spam, (yes, i do use the other ones too) and with the FT its the missmissmissmiss bugs. Give me a sniper rifle dps kit or something, take away the mortar and make it the new 30 pt elite =P.
I rolled a necro, and yes I am a glutton for punishment >_< stupid pets.
I did the exact opposite. I complain about necros in wvw and moved in to engineers. I think lyfe sux more as an engi is true.
Funny, I’ve been working on Elementalist and Necro and I feel like Necro is such a crazily stronger class than Engineer. You just use pets ad hoc instead of having a horde, and hybrid builds for necro are easy and strong.
Elementalist is better at everything but crazy-hard to play correctly.
Anyway, a little while ago I started knocking about with an engine alt.
Holy kitten am I having fun, so much so that I haven’t touched my warrior since I rolled this lil’ spitfire.
/0.02$
Edit :: I don’t just play pve or pvp, I play everything… like, you know, the whole kitten game, so maybe that’s why I’m having fun… with the game and all…
That’s sort of why people are in here complaining. We all like lots of aspects of the class. But we want something that is effective and cohesive. It says a lot that we’re still here complaining. If we didn’t care at all the we wouldn’t be bothering.
Yeah, you have been up against bad rifle warriors. Even with the ideal spec (basically anything that doesn’t use rifles or grenades) its going to be an extremely tough fight.
Maybe in WvW a decked out glass cannon rifle warrior is an issue as they can almost one shot any spec. By and large though they are not an issue. Just dodge or reflect that kill shot and they’re the dead ones.
Also, don’t let yourself be engaged by one in the middle of a wide open field. LOS is one of the engis most powerful tools our skills really help to give us the upper hand in LOS situations.
I guess you’re just one of those persons who don’t excel at anything and is okay with others carrying you. Well, GW2 is a game for everyone.
Ya you’re right, cuz my 450 hps group regen, perma swiftness, condition conversion, and area buffs as a warrior in addition to the damage y’all keep kittening about makes my team carry me everywhere,
And my boons, crowd control, condition damage, utilities like supply crates, golems, turrets, and proc effect nades are also completely useless to my groups as well.
Oh right, I forgot, self-motivated tPvP is the only part of this game that matters… My bad!
Boundaries are for the effortless.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.
That’s sort of why people are in here complaining. We all like lots of aspects of the class. But we want something that is effective and cohesive. It says a lot that we’re still here complaining. If we didn’t care at all the we wouldn’t be bothering.
I don’t follow, peeps be kittening cuz they have a class that is deep, fun, and challenging?
Boundaries are for the effortless.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.
That’s sort of why people are in here complaining. We all like lots of aspects of the class. But we want something that is effective and cohesive. It says a lot that we’re still here complaining. If we didn’t care at all the we wouldn’t be bothering.
I don’t follow, peeps be kittening cuz they have a class that is deep, fun, and challenging?
The “challenging” you’re talking about is the kind of “challenging” that results from bringing a knife to a gun fight. WvW is a big part of the endgame for a lot of people and WvW for Engineers is pretty bad. Even for PvE, their damage output and condition output is outright lamentable for a condition class.
And I like some aspects of the engineer playstyle (e.g., fast kit swapping is like elemental attunements but moreso), but right now it’s a lot of work for mediocre damage output and mediocre control. I don’t mind doing support, but I refuse to be a healbot or a sidekick. You may like being someone else’s medic, but that’s not really the sort of role I want to take. But it’s one of the only worthwhile things to do as an engineer right now, because no matter what Casia says most classes can trivially outdamage engineers while still providing support and some control; and they could even before the grenade nerfs were in place, the mechanics of grenades and the class greatly offset the damage equation of grenades.
I’m sold on the general idea of the engineer class, just not this specific expression as it stands. Right now the playstyle is “I bought some toys a real engineer made for me and I don’t quite know how to make them work right so I dunno lol rng.” Not “I am an engineer and my playstyle is about building the terrain and outthinking my enemy.”
I find that objectionable. It turns Engineers into a perpetual Robin to everyone else’s Batman. Robin is only cool because you know one day he’ll become awesome and so you want to see how a superhero grows up. Robin without a future, permanently stuck in those short shorts and that yellow cape, starts to seem a little creepy and stale and sad.
The worst part of it is that so many people here don’t understand how the game works nor have they tried other classes. For example, someone was telling me their flamethrower #1 hits for >5k before L80. Shall we all laugh at that all-too-common misreading?
(edited by KirinDave.6451)
Robin is only cool because you know one day he’ll become awesome and so you want to see how a superhero grows up.
No he won’t, stop kittening yourself. boy wonder is a tool.
That said, I hear what your are saying, but I have yet to find my engineer lacking. Maybe I am not jaded because I made him post nade nerf?
Boundaries are for the effortless.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.
I have an engineer since the beginning of the game and haven’t rolled another profession except spvp,and i fare better then the most since confronted many in spvp and wvw but most of you guys are right about the damage.
Have the developers roll an engineer on spvp and wvw and have them bashed to pieces,(trust me they will get frustrated just like any of us),then i believe next day we will see a spike in damage and traits. I believe developers play the game but i don’t think they play pvp as much as any of us.
Fort Aspenwood
Roaming engineer
Roaming engineer
I have an engineer since the beginning of the game and haven’t rolled another profession except spvp,and i fare better then the most since confronted many in spvp and wvw but most of you guys are right about the damage.
Have the developers roll an engineer on spvp and wvw and have them bashed to pieces,(trust me they will get frustrated just like any of us),then i believe next day we will see a spike in damage and traits. I believe developers play the game but i don’t think they play pvp as much as any of us.
Remember there’s only like 2 people on class balance. Odds that they play engineer on a regular basis is rather low.
Made engineer at launch, leveled him to 80, 260 hours played on that character later I made an alt warrior, leveled warrior to 80, placed engineer in LA, it now works as a lowly slave to my warrior.
What in the hell are you doing that takes 260 hours to level to 80. I have rolled an engineer and taken him to 80 twice(switched races) and the first one took 120 hours, the 2nd took about 115 hours. I mostly solo(dynamic events, farming and WvW). How in the world do you take 260 to level to 80, from what I’ve read it’s suppose to take 120-180s no matter what profession you play.
What in the hell are you doing that takes 260 hours to level to 80.
I guess he meant he spent 260 hours playing engi after he got to lvl 80. =\
EU Aurora Glade
Engineer generally > Thief 1v1, good thieves are annoying and you wont kill them, but they wont kill you either unless you slip up.
Yeah, you have been up against bad rifle warriors. Even with the ideal spec (basically anything that doesn’t use rifles or grenades) its going to be an extremely tough fight.
Basically any class that can keep us at mid/long range for any length of time will demolish us, but this game is balanced around rock/paper/scissors mentality. If you are a condi engi and you run into a necro just save yourself the effort and sit down and die, likewise if a thief jumps you, well he shouldn’t have jumped you lol.
I exaggerated a bit on the warrior vs engi matchup, if the engi uses any variation of pistols then its in the engineers favor if the warrior spams skill while confused, but against a good warrior you still shouldn’t win unless you outplay him something fierce. But if its a rifle engi vs rifle warrior and the warrior loses, well kitten that’s one horrible warrior.
This is from my experience in TPvP and roaming WvW from about 1.5 months ago. IE before engi kits got nerfed into the ground.
actually in retrospect engi vs thief isn’t that one sided either. Pro thieves will dodge supply drop and if that happens or if you miss it for whatever reason, its a downhill fight for you (assuming they have thieves guild elite)
first off i said a smart engineer will beat a thief, not a stupid engineer playing the typical meta builds, second rifle warrior over a rifle engineer lol what a joke, now the only way a rifle warrior is gonna beat a rifle engineer is if he has massive damage and gets lucky, meaning that skilled rifle warrior verses a skilled rifle engineer has got nothing, its a simple dodge dodge knock back blunderbuss jump shot net shoot in the back till hes dead, and that’s with out using any utility skills.
3rd getting kitted ……really lol, id like to explain that to ya but clearly you don’t know how to play the engineer to its best potential, and for the last thing why are you relying on 1 skill supply drop to take out a thief most good thief’s i face do dodge it, nice one good on them, here let me show you some of the sick cc i have, o wait u went invisible doesn’t stop me from shooting you.
and finally if u have so much ways of explaining why a engineer fails in these areas please go out with you engineer fraps some kitten and prove that the engineer is under par, till then you clearly dont know what your doing with the engineer and therefore are not a skilled player
p.s grenade kits are better then they were before stop rolling with the meta and u will see why
and finally if u have so much ways of explaining why a engineer fails in these areas please go out with you engineer fraps some kitten and prove that the engineer is under par, till then you clearly dont know what your doing with the engineer and therefore are not a skilled player
p.s grenade kits are better then they were before stop rolling with the meta and u will see why
Or you could show people how the engineer is awesome, the way Sheobix and Nemesis are doing for Necromancers. Let’s be honest here: very few people believe what you’re saying. And you’re asking someone else to prove a negative, which is all but impossible.
So you laid down some big talk there and unlike us you can prove a positive: that the Engineer is up to snuff.
I eagerly await your videos. Because I gotta be honest, it feels like lately every video in this forum I see is like extremely underwhelming footage of useless stuff like random wvw solos and usually sort of mediocre matches.
… rifle warrior over a rifle engineer lol what a joke, now the only way a rifle warrior is gonna beat a rifle engineer is if he has massive damage and gets lucky, meaning that skilled rifle warrior verses a skilled rifle engineer has got nothing, its a simple dodge dodge knock back blunderbuss jump shot net shoot in the back till hes dead, and that’s with out using any utility skills.
Firstly, Warriors tend to do massive damage with their rifles … it’s sort of a given. If by “gets lucky” you mean that he sees the Engineer before being hit by a net then yes, fair enough; if the Warrior does see the Engineer first though it’s pretty trivial to keep out of range of all but the Engineer’s auto-attack whilst keeping comfortably in range of the vulnerability, cripple and burst damage of the Warrior’s rifle.
TL;DR
In a rifle-duel a Warrior is likely to out-perform an equivalent-skilled Engineer.
Glad to be [Grey] – http://thegrey.enjin.com/home
Piken Square
Piken Square
Engineer generally > Thief 1v1, good thieves are annoying and you wont kill them, but they wont kill you either unless you slip up.
Yeah, you have been up against bad rifle warriors. Even with the ideal spec (basically anything that doesn’t use rifles or grenades) its going to be an extremely tough fight.
Basically any class that can keep us at mid/long range for any length of time will demolish us, but this game is balanced around rock/paper/scissors mentality. If you are a condi engi and you run into a necro just save yourself the effort and sit down and die, likewise if a thief jumps you, well he shouldn’t have jumped you lol.
I exaggerated a bit on the warrior vs engi matchup, if the engi uses any variation of pistols then its in the engineers favor if the warrior spams skill while confused, but against a good warrior you still shouldn’t win unless you outplay him something fierce. But if its a rifle engi vs rifle warrior and the warrior loses, well kitten that’s one horrible warrior.
This is from my experience in TPvP and roaming WvW from about 1.5 months ago. IE before engi kits got nerfed into the ground.
actually in retrospect engi vs thief isn’t that one sided either. Pro thieves will dodge supply drop and if that happens or if you miss it for whatever reason, its a downhill fight for you (assuming they have thieves guild elite)
first off i said a smart engineer will beat a thief, not a stupid engineer playing the typical meta builds, second rifle warrior over a rifle engineer lol what a joke, now the only way a rifle warrior is gonna beat a rifle engineer is if he has massive damage and gets lucky, meaning that skilled rifle warrior verses a skilled rifle engineer has got nothing, its a simple dodge dodge knock back blunderbuss jump shot net shoot in the back till hes dead, and that’s with out using any utility skills.
3rd getting kitted ……really lol, id like to explain that to ya but clearly you don’t know how to play the engineer to its best potential, and for the last thing why are you relying on 1 skill supply drop to take out a thief most good thief’s i face do dodge it, nice one good on them, here let me show you some of the sick cc i have, o wait u went invisible doesn’t stop me from shooting you.
and finally if u have so much ways of explaining why a engineer fails in these areas please go out with you engineer fraps some kitten and prove that the engineer is under par, till then you clearly dont know what your doing with the engineer and therefore are not a skilled player
p.s grenade kits are better then they were before stop rolling with the meta and u will see why
You tell me I’m a bad engineer.
Then you tell me you knock back a class that has better ranged firepower than you.
You also tell me you use nothing but rifle skills to kill a rifle warrior.
On thieves, I don’t rely on supply drop to kill them, missing supply drop and being up against a thief with TG up isn’t an easy fight, that’s all I was saying, you seem to be getting awfully defensive for someone that feels as though the class is in a fine place.
Made engineer at launch, leveled him to 80, 260 hours played on that character later I made an alt warrior, leveled warrior to 80, placed engineer in LA, it now works as a lowly slave to my warrior.
On a more serious note. Will you have fun leveling this class? Yes. Will you have fun in end-game with this class? For a limited time, yes. Will you be on par with other professions? No. Will you make an alt and forget your engineer? Yes.
I believe I retraited once every day for about a month in search for one single build that I found viable, made sense, was fluent, was flexible, supportive, high dps, anything! Did I find anything? No. Almost actually, a few times but they always had a very annoying flaw that I couldn’t live with. I never felt complete as an engineer. On warrior I can roll whatever kitten I want and I feel like a complete, working, thought out profession.
That’s all I had to bring to this discussion..
I’m at the phase of creating a new build daily, just to find one that has at least the features I find fun.
If I want ranged damage, I’m almost forced to use grenade kit AND trait Grenadier. I hate that…
Other simular choices feel too forced as well, it’s just one example.
Rolling without a single elixir?
A stunbreaker on a terribly long cooldown, or use a gadget wich again ruins any elixir traits.
Simply use 3 kits and have a ton of skills that ammount to getting nothing done properly?I’m trying out all sorts of builds, but there is one thing I can not find: VERSATILITY!!!
There is no valid versatile engineer build.
There are only specified engineer builds, and even those are sub-par compared to the equivalent of another profession.Where is my stunbreaker on a kit?
Why are there so few traits buffing ALL kits?
Why are elixirs so bloody random with long cooldowns?
Why do pistols need 2 traits to barely reach 1050 yards and pierce? Why does the rifle only have 1 skill that actually has max range?
Why is my flamethrower so close range but misses at minimum range?
Why does the elixir gun hit so weak? It’s nothing but a healing elixir that removes conditions most of the time: swap in, swap out…
Nag nag…
But mostly this:Where the hell is this so called versatility that is sooo good we have to pay a price for it?
next stage: try out a different prof just for laughs, just to see… maybe a guardian and see what the word ‘support’ actually means.
Not rerolling of course, just making a new character to compare a bit… sure.
I never actually thought of it that way but heck you’re right. Out of all the classes engineer is the only one who has to travel really deep into trait lines to get basic stuff for the build to work. Ultimately that makes it the possibly worst versatile class in the game. How ironic..
If anything the engineer traits should be filled with very general stuff that boosts stuff all over the place to make it versatile. Right now the trait lines are extremely narrow focusing solely on a single kit or weapon.
(edited by LukeTheQuke.4079)
I feel that p/p elixir builds are in a fairly good place compared to other condition builds in the game it’s the only class that can reliably keep all damaging condition types up on a target.
Having said that though a lot of the builds are 1 trick ponies that do it worse than everyone else with “less” versatility.
ANet’s Official Statement
“The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.”
….If we could swap all our utilities on demand while “in combat” I could maybe understand thats statement. However there are no truely “verstatile” viable builds that can fill all/any roll enough to be peanlized… I simply do not understand their logic at all when something like a guardian or warrior can potentially be more versatile with more utility/buffs/control and do more damage but not be penalized in the same way.
I do still play my engineer I enjoy it but this “vision” garbage they have in their heads vs. reality is doing damage to the class and game. It was this exact same kind of mentality that caused the mass exodus out of EQ1 back in the day.
If they can truly make their vision match what is in game then that is fine but currently they’re polar opposites.
(edited by NeuroMuse.1763)
I feel that p/p elixir builds are in a fairly good place compared to other condition builds in the game it’s the only class that can reliably keep all damaging condition types up on a target.
Having said that though a lot of the builds are 1 trick ponies that do it worse than everyone else with “less” versatility.
ANet’s Official Statement
“The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.”….If we could swap all our utilities on demand while “in combat” I could maybe understand thats statement. However there are no truely “verstatile” viable builds that can fill all/any roll enough to be peanlized… I simply do not understand their logic at all when something like a guardian or warrior can potentially be more versatile with more utility/buffs/control and do more damage but not be penalized in the same way.
I do still play my engineer I enjoy it but this “vision” garbage they have in their heads vs. reality is doing damage to the class and game. It was this exact same kind of mentality that caused the mass exodus out of EQ1 back in the day.
If they can truly make their vision match what is in game then that is fine but currently they’re polar opposites.
That vision from ArenaNet seems correct. You can on the fly(outside of combat) vastly change your setup based on your situation(in combat you can change to toolkits on the fly). You seem to want the maximized version of every kit available to you at all times which would make the class way overpowered.
What exactly does a Warrior or Guardian do defending a keep that’s better then what an engineer can do? Run out of the keep do some damage and run back? I don’t know how many times I’ve been the only person at a keep and was able to keep destroying rams to make the assault last so much longer(unless they hit the door from range with catapults or whatever) where reinforcements will sometimes show up.
(edited by NastyPiggy.2046)
No. You can’t really change your setup without trait reset. Because all viable builds are based on certain trait allocation, instead of kit swapping.
And changing gear outside of combat can be applied to every profession, you can’t really define versatility on this.
EU Aurora Glade