Guild Wars 2

Isslair.4908:

No. You can’t really change your setup without trait reset. Because all viable builds are based on certain trait allocation, instead of kit swapping.

And changing gear outside of combat can be applied to every profession, you can’t really define versatility on this.

Really? My build is dual pistols with elixirs, but I can easily change it to pistol/shield(plus change the traits for +90 toughness with shield) or flamethrower or elixir(changing piercing shots to flamethrower +200 toughness and changing faster recharge for pistols to faster recharge for flamethrower/elixir)… then I change my 2nd trait in the elixir line to 15% more damage with flamethrower/elixir gun from 20% longer elixirs. Bam… I’m traited for elixir gun or flamethrower… then I can switch back within seconds back to pistols, it’s pretty easy.

For some reason, I do well 1v1, in a group as damage or support and also am better then most defending a keep(destroying rams, keeping people off the door with nades or flamethrower). I’m not sure what other versatility one needs.

If I go with rifle, I go all the way across with the power line so I can get more damage and switch out to nades if I want.

What do you want? To have max damage for everything? The basics are there to do well, all you have to do is maximize their use.

NastyPiggy.2046:

My build is dual pistols with elixirs, but I can easily change it to pistol/shield or flamethrower or elixir.

So?
Again, all professions can change weapons. That’s not versatility. You’re not suddenly going from supporter to tank to dps. And no, 200 toughness don’t make you a tank.

NastyPiggy.2046:

If I go with rifle, I go all the way across with the power line so I can get more damage and switch out to nades if I want.

Still changing from dps to dps.

Where is the versatility? Your examples are what other classes do just by pressing swap weapon button.

Yeah, ok the engineer is one of the best for WvW base defense, but it’s really only marginally better.

It could stand to be better. Personally I think toolkit should be able to repair siege as well. There’s no other way to repair siege, and it’s not like toolkit repairing is strong and would make it OP. It would just make engineer cooler and more useful. It’s pretty stupid being an engineer that can’t do anything about maintaining a base that any dumb warrior could do.

Also improve mortars. having a mortar with no range and no health is just insulting. There’s no reason for it. It either needs to be a decent piece of siege or it needs to be something else entirely.

NastyPiggy.2046:

What exactly does a Warrior or Guardian do defending a keep that’s better then what an engineer can do?

Warriors also have 1500 range rifle abilities that can pick people or rams off easy glass cannon specced snipe is going to hit 8k+ 10-15k on light armor and their rifle abilities hit siege a lot harder than engi abilities. Easy to take out siege and can buff and heal with banners. Banner buffs in some cases give actual raw stat increases which is unique as well compared to other available boons. Instant banner rez is great all be it situational.

Guardians have reflects and sanctuary, aoe stability/protection and several other abilities to protect and mitigate damage to the people ranging on the walls giving them longer up-time on their damage while offering the standard fair of boons that usually comes as “part of weapon skills” so they can face roll them and keep them up. They’re mostly on lower cool-downs than any of the comparable engineer abilities as well. If walls or a gate gets breached guardians are kingly at crowd control(staff/hammer) through that space keeping them back so they can be ranged down by players or keep them in place for siege barrages. Even these support spec guardians generally hit harder than dps geared/specced engineers too.

Keep in mind on top tier WvW servers things are a lot more organized and WvW maps are almost full 24/7 so you see the above scenarios more often than on the lower tier servers where everyone just wants to pewpew dmg instead of being battle-changing support. A lot of that stuff can be done all in one spec as well and just like engineers if they exit combat they can switch to other utilities and WEAPONS to fill completely different rolls fairly well.

This is all really just scratching the surface. Look at the versatility Elementalists have sure like us they have to exit combat to swap weapons but you’re looking at the most available skills in the game are they peanlized as extremely as engi’s are? Nope.

Engineers really aren’t bringing anything else or more variety to warrant being intentionally penalized. ANet’s logic makes no sense to me. With that said Grenadier spec Engis are very powerful but they’re a one trick pony. P/P Elixir engi’s offer some nice support and “all” condition damage types reliably. There are still specs that work and are fun to play still.

Basically its like this.. “in theory” engineers have access to all these great traits(you have to spec for) and all of these utilities(that usually rely 100% on those traits) that looking at them on paper where you can see them all at once and go “wow they can do so much” but in reality it’s more like pick 1 and re-trait when you need to. Just like “ANY” class you can change utilities out of combat or swap weapons and have gasp more versatility to change to the situation at hand nothing new here.

If they change the engineer class to be in line with their vision that would be great but right now it isn’t at all. An easy fix? Put in traits that effect ALL KITS in each trait line that also effect standard skills only then would it start to make sense especially if how they effected the kits reflected properly the stat/abilitiy bonuses from that trait line. However right now they require unique traits and completely different stats in some cases to even be effective or even remotely worth while.

I love the engineer it’s fun even the way it is now for me I’m perfectly content but that doesn’t mean that everything is okay for everyone or that it’s even ok for ANet to contradict itself.

NastyPiggy.2046:

Disastro.4086:

I feel that p/p elixir builds are in a fairly good place compared to other condition builds in the game it’s the only class that can reliably keep all damaging condition types up on a target.

Having said that though a lot of the builds are 1 trick ponies that do it worse than everyone else with “less” versatility.

ANet’s Official Statement
“The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.”

….If we could swap all our utilities on demand while “in combat” I could maybe understand thats statement. However there are no truely “verstatile” viable builds that can fill all/any roll enough to be peanlized… I simply do not understand their logic at all when something like a guardian or warrior can potentially be more versatile with more utility/buffs/control and do more damage but not be penalized in the same way.

I do still play my engineer I enjoy it but this “vision” garbage they have in their heads vs. reality is doing damage to the class and game. It was this exact same kind of mentality that caused the mass exodus out of EQ1 back in the day.

If they can truly make their vision match what is in game then that is fine but currently they’re polar opposites.

That vision from ArenaNet seems correct. You can on the fly(outside of combat) vastly change your setup based on your situation(in combat you can change to toolkits on the fly). You seem to want the maximized version of every kit available to you at all times which would make the class way overpowered.

Agreed to part of quote in italics.
BUT…. what is the difference to every other profession out there then?
Any profession can retrait, shuffle abilities around and change their playstyle. I don’t see what sets us apart from them then.

Following this thought basically means that we are as versatile as any other profession (except the king of versatility of course), but get hit with a price for it, while other professions can just faceroll. ^^

“All Magic Comes With A Price”, but only for Engineers?

Pannonica.5378:

BUT…. what is the difference to every other profession out there then?
Any profession can retrait, shuffle abilities around and change their playstyle. I don’t see what sets us apart from them then.

That is exactly what my point is. We don’t have any advantage to warrant the penalties we receive. Everyone can swap out utilities/traits out of combat etc.. and have access to similar tools either via weapon changes or said utilities/traits.

Isslair.4908:

NastyPiggy.2046:

My build is dual pistols with elixirs, but I can easily change it to pistol/shield or flamethrower or elixir.

So?
Again, all professions can change weapons. That’s not versatility. You’re not suddenly going from supporter to tank to dps. And no, 200 toughness don’t make you a tank.

NastyPiggy.2046:

If I go with rifle, I go all the way across with the power line so I can get more damage and switch out to nades if I want.

Still changing from dps to dps.

Where is the versatility? Your examples are what other classes do just by pressing swap weapon button.

Not really, you change how you attack a situation drastically. For some reason you can’t just sit on top of a keep fighting, you get killed doing that. Engineers can try to throw nades from the top of a keep, if that’s not working you have the flamethrower to do damage to anyone close to the door or destroy rams they’re using to break in faster.

Who the hell cares if you change from range to melee with a warrior, what you can do isn’t mukitteneep defense compared to an engineer. Have you never sat behind a door and just shot your flamethrower through it to melt down a ram?

Isslair.4908:

NastyPiggy.2046:

My build is dual pistols with elixirs, but I can easily change it to pistol/shield or flamethrower or elixir.

So?
Again, all professions can change weapons. That’s not versatility. You’re not suddenly going from supporter to tank to dps. And no, 200 toughness don’t make you a tank.

NastyPiggy.2046:

If I go with rifle, I go all the way across with the power line so I can get more damage and switch out to nades if I want.

Still changing from dps to dps.

Where is the versatility? Your examples are what other classes do just by pressing swap weapon button.

What the hell, dps to dps, it’s completely different dps, you go from single target to AoEs that can keep people from attacking the keep at close range. It’s COMPLETELY different and if you can’t see that, i guess I can’t help you.

No 200 toughness doesn’t make you a tank, but it does help, plus the stacks of might come in handy… oh yeah, that extra 15% damage boost isn’t bad being tossed in there too.

If they buff the engineer you’re going to hear a lot of people whining about the engineer being overpowered because… they’ll be right.

NastyPiggy.2046:

Isslair.4908:

NastyPiggy.2046:

My build is dual pistols with elixirs, but I can easily change it to pistol/shield or flamethrower or elixir.

So?
Again, all professions can change weapons. That’s not versatility. You’re not suddenly going from supporter to tank to dps. And no, 200 toughness don’t make you a tank.

NastyPiggy.2046:

If I go with rifle, I go all the way across with the power line so I can get more damage and switch out to nades if I want.

Still changing from dps to dps.

Where is the versatility? Your examples are what other classes do just by pressing swap weapon button.

What the hell, dps to dps, it’s completely different dps, you go from single target to AoEs that can keep people from attacking the keep at close range. It’s COMPLETELY different and if you can’t see that, i guess I can’t help you.

No 200 toughness doesn’t make you a tank, but it does help, plus the stacks of might come in handy… oh yeah, that extra 15% damage boost isn’t bad being tossed in there too.

I think his point is other classes can go from one “entirely different type!” of dps spec to another with the press of a button.

nofo.8469:

NastyPiggy.2046:

Isslair.4908:

NastyPiggy.2046:

My build is dual pistols with elixirs, but I can easily change it to pistol/shield or flamethrower or elixir.

So?
Again, all professions can change weapons. That’s not versatility. You’re not suddenly going from supporter to tank to dps. And no, 200 toughness don’t make you a tank.

NastyPiggy.2046:

If I go with rifle, I go all the way across with the power line so I can get more damage and switch out to nades if I want.

Still changing from dps to dps.

Where is the versatility? Your examples are what other classes do just by pressing swap weapon button.

What the hell, dps to dps, it’s completely different dps, you go from single target to AoEs that can keep people from attacking the keep at close range. It’s COMPLETELY different and if you can’t see that, i guess I can’t help you.

No 200 toughness doesn’t make you a tank, but it does help, plus the stacks of might come in handy… oh yeah, that extra 15% damage boost isn’t bad being tossed in there too.

I think his point is other classes can go from one “entirely different type!” of dps spec to another with the press of a button.

Yes, 2 different weapons while we can only go to 4 different ones(1 weapons, 3 kits) if you want to go like that. Just bind 7 to 0 to Alt-1 to Alt-4, it’s pretty easy.

Chickenshoes.6250:

Personally I think toolkit should be able to repair siege as well. There’s no other way to repair siege, and it’s not like toolkit repairing is strong and would make it OP. It would just make engineer cooler and more useful. It’s pretty stupid being an engineer that can’t do anything about maintaining a base that any dumb warrior could do.

As an aside, I was all for this until I remembered Innervate in vanilla WoW. Give a class/profession a unique and useful ability, and it will be demanded (regardless of whether you accede) they perform it.

While it would be cool if Tool Kit could repair siege, I’d only accept the change happily if they added some sort of cheap, purchasable repair kit for other professions to use. There are a few similar things scattered throughout PvE as is, and it would keep us from being pigeonholed into being wrench monkeys.

WithoutAssumption.7936:

Chickenshoes.6250:

Personally I think toolkit should be able to repair siege as well. There’s no other way to repair siege, and it’s not like toolkit repairing is strong and would make it OP. It would just make engineer cooler and more useful. It’s pretty stupid being an engineer that can’t do anything about maintaining a base that any dumb warrior could do.

As an aside, I was all for this until I remembered Innervate in vanilla WoW. Give a class/profession a unique and useful ability, and it will be demanded (regardless of whether you accede) they perform it.

While it would be cool if Tool Kit could repair siege, I’d only accept the change happily if they added some sort of cheap, purchasable repair kit for other professions to use. There are a few similar things scattered throughout PvE as is, and it would keep us from being pigeonholed into being wrench monkeys.

Some other classes can already screw with siege portalbombs, swirling winds, bubbles.
The engineer, which already drops their own mortar, is apparently too inept to be able to do anything to actual siege equipment, except beat them to death like any other class.

I thought only getting one main weapon and burning a utility slot for a secondary weapon was enough penalty, but apparently we’re taxed with damage as well.

Isslair.4908:

No. You can’t really change your setup without trait reset. Because all viable builds are based on certain trait allocation, instead of kit swapping.

And changing gear outside of combat can be applied to every profession, you can’t really define versatility on this.

This^^

putting on grenades does me do good if i’m not specced for it in traits…that’s not versatility…..that’s like putting on stealths on a thief and expecting them to remove conditions without the trait and calling it more versatile.

If Charr engineers really hit this whimpy then they would have never taken their lands back, that’s all I’m sayin. ;/

Isslair.4908:

No. You can’t really change your setup without trait reset. Because all viable builds are based on certain trait allocation, instead of kit swapping.

And changing gear outside of combat can be applied to every profession, you can’t really define versatility on this.

^This. Versatility only matters in combat. One can’t say that “yeh well, anyone can go to LA in between each battle and re-trait, that’s great versatility”. <.< And just like he said the fact remains that you have to travel into deep trait lines to make different kits viable in the first place.

Also please stop using WvW as a reference to class balance. No offense but WvW is an AoE spam fest where all that matters is that you’re using AoE and have the bigger mob (and good coordination but again that has nothing to do with balance).

NastyPiggy.2046:

For some reason you can’t just sit on top of a keep fighting, you get killed doing that. Engineers can try to throw nades from the top of a keep

Actually, you still need to be on the edge of the wall to throw grenades, the same as with rifle. Stupid, yeah, but this is how the game works.

And again – every class can swap weapons.
This is not “versatility”, this is core game mechanics. It’s not something unique to engineers. If you can’t see that, i guess I can’t help you.

Isslair.4908:

NastyPiggy.2046:

For some reason you can’t just sit on top of a keep fighting, you get killed doing that. Engineers can try to throw nades from the top of a keep

Actually, you still need to be on the edge of the wall to throw grenades, the same as with rifle. Stupid, yeah, but this is how the game works.

And again – every class can swap weapons.
This is not “versatility”, this is core game mechanics. It’s not something unique to engineers. If you can’t see that, i guess I can’t help you.

Versatility – Capable of doing many things competently, having varied uses or serving many functions.

The engineer by definition does have versatility. The other professions other then elementalist just have 2 sets of skills that are bound to their 2 weapons, as said before, the engineer can have 4.

To all the people saying engineer is good and they know how to wrek everything…

I agree with you, really. But give some examples about why it’s good. Lol, there are too few engineer to make sharing your secrets a risk.XD
If you don’t do this, you may just look arrogant.

For instance…
I always trait at least 10 points in explosives for forceful explosives, and always make sure I have the bomb kit?

Why? Beacuse makes meleeing an engineer sucidial, expecially if you are bunker or half-bunker.
So warriors and guardians almost can’t kill me, for they have to get in melee. Thieves have a hard time too. Most of the time, if they kill me, is only because I healed too late.

With some ranged guys I have a bit more problems, though. EXPECIALLY mesmers. They are the real pain. But seems like some heavy condition-stacking is a problem for them. So…

I’m talking about sPvP, where I always end up last in points because I think I am rambo and go killing myself against 3+ people.XD

If they give us Condition, vitality, toughness amulets in spvp I will be VERY happy.XD

Ive been playing my engineer since bwe1 and still have high hopes for this profession. As my main I too have recently put him on the shelf after trying everything I could to feel good about its lack of awsomeness. Heck even the legendary wdapon choices are the worst in game. So im playing a ranger and having fun. Still not as powerful as guardian or mesmers but everyone that I run in to but having fun.

I like my Engi more than my warrior, theif, and ele. You crazy bro.

I was kinda sympathising with the OP at first, but then he said he mainly plays WvW and started to disagree.

Engineer has some major problems in tPvP and PvE, because being second best at everything will mean noone wants you for the top groups, which tend to go for optimal classes to fill simplistic roles.

In WvW, I’d say being second best at everything is a positive. The zerg moves between keep defence, keep attack and open combat pretty fluidly, and the engineer can contribute solidly at every stage, which is not true of all classes.

I think the OP has the gist of it right. It could have been put better but engineers are not a good choice for a first class.

Then again, if play an engineer for a while and when you do go play another class you will be very good at the game from having to play so well to succeed.

Cribbage.2056:

In WvW, I’d say being second best at everything is a positive.

If only this were true.

It isn’t.

We are no longer second best for AoE dps.

We are not second best for single target dps.

We are not second best for healing.

We are not second best for support buffs.

We are not second best for bunker build survivability (and yes that includes tankcat).

We are not second best for point scouting.

Really, we are not second best for anything, and many of those categories we are near or at the bottom of the list.

That being said, it doesn’t mean that you can’t be successful playing an engineer. The point of this thread wasn’t to claim that engineer can’t win fights, it was to warn new players to the game from considering the class to save them the frustration of bitter disappointment.

I hate to use a WoW reference, but the engineer reminds me of the Druid at release of vanilla WoW, only the engineer doesn’t have a comparable innervate spell that makes them a must have.

Let those new players decide for themselves please?
Opinions differ and for some the way the class feels while playing and its mechanics are more important than being one of the best classes out there for whatever purpose or being the top damaging class.
The engineer is still effective and fun to play imo.
And saying you have to play flawlessly in most cases to beat other classes is just plain wrong as I also spend most my time in WvW, am far from flawless and don’t loose many 1v1’s to any class (incl. thieves and mesmers). Yes it takes longer to kill but isn’t hardly as much effort to get things done as say a staff ele.

MrSilver.5269:

Cribbage.2056:

In WvW, I’d say being second best at everything is a positive.

If only this were true.

It isn’t.

We are no longer second best for AoE dps.

We are not second best for single target dps.

We are not second best for healing.

We are not second best for support buffs.

We are not second best for bunker build survivability (and yes that includes tankcat).

We are not second best for point scouting.

Really, we are not second best for anything, and many of those categories we are near or at the bottom of the list.

That being said, it doesn’t mean that you can’t be successful playing an engineer. The point of this thread wasn’t to claim that engineer can’t win fights, it was to warn new players to the game from considering the class to save them the frustration of bitter disappointment.

I hate to use a WoW reference, but the engineer reminds me of the Druid at release of WoW, only the engineer doesn’t have an comparable innervate spell that makes them a must have.

Just curious, I keep hearing this logic about Engineer swaying people from playing.

From a sPvP perspective alone, what do you all feel that Warrior and Ranger are 1st best at?

holska.4127:

Let those new players decide for themselves please?
Opinions differ and for some the way the class feels while playing and its mechanics are more important than being one of the best classes out there for whatever purpose or being the top damaging class.
The engineer is still effective and fun to play imo.
And saying you have to play flawlessly in most cases to beat other classes is just plain wrong as I also spend most my time in WvW, am far from flawless and don’t loose many 1v1’s to any class (incl. thieves and mesmers). Yes it takes longer to kill but isn’t hardly as much effort to get things done as say a staff ele.

We are but there is a need to inform the new players what the game is like end game. In this title, even loot suddenly and completely changes for players after they reach level 80. It’s like a punishment for reaching max level or something rather then a reward. So in order to let the new players know what’s happening these threads are necessary. When the OP posted this I’m sure he was talking about pve. All I see when people ask about the builds for this class are all pvp and that’s sad because this game is so much more then a pvp esport. If players want to play pvp only that’s great engis have hardly the issues people see in pve in pvp. But if they wish to play pve end game forget it. It’s either minmax to barely keep up, die constantly because of it, or go reroll anything else because anything else will literally be more fun then the way they’ve done this class right now. It really is that bad in the pve side right now. People can pretend but there’s far too much wrong with the class to play and enjoy yourself.

tigirius.9014:

holska.4127:

Let those new players decide for themselves please?
Opinions differ and for some the way the class feels while playing and its mechanics are more important than being one of the best classes out there for whatever purpose or being the top damaging class.
The engineer is still effective and fun to play imo.
And saying you have to play flawlessly in most cases to beat other classes is just plain wrong as I also spend most my time in WvW, am far from flawless and don’t loose many 1v1’s to any class (incl. thieves and mesmers). Yes it takes longer to kill but isn’t hardly as much effort to get things done as say a staff ele.

We are but there is a need to inform the new players what the game is like end game. In this title, even loot suddenly and completely changes for players after they reach level 80. It’s like a punishment for reaching max level or something rather then a reward. So in order to let the new players know what’s happening these threads are necessary. When the OP posted this I’m sure he was talking about pve. All I see when people ask about the builds for this class are all pvp and that’s sad because this game is so much more then a pvp esport. If players want to play pvp only that’s great engis have hardly the issues people see in pve in pvp. But if they wish to play pve end game forget it. It’s either minmax to barely keep up, die constantly because of it, or go reroll anything else because anything else will literally be more fun then the way they’ve done this class right now. It really is that bad in the pve side right now. People can pretend but there’s far too much wrong with the class to play and enjoy yourself.

You are completely wrong IMO. I enjoy my Engineer more than any other class, and in fractals I’m a pretty invaluable asset with my ability to support while dealing decent damage and taking a beating. Are we the best? No. Are we fun? Absolutely. Maybe Engineer isn’t the class for you if power = fun. Power isn’t everything, and mechanically playing an Engineer is a blast (for me).

WithoutAssumption.7936:

Chickenshoes.6250:

Personally I think toolkit should be able to repair siege as well. There’s no other way to repair siege, and it’s not like toolkit repairing is strong and would make it OP. It would just make engineer cooler and more useful. It’s pretty stupid being an engineer that can’t do anything about maintaining a base that any dumb warrior could do.

As an aside, I was all for this until I remembered Innervate in vanilla WoW. Give a class/profession a unique and useful ability, and it will be demanded (regardless of whether you accede) they perform it.

While it would be cool if Tool Kit could repair siege, I’d only accept the change happily if they added some sort of cheap, purchasable repair kit for other professions to use. There are a few similar things scattered throughout PvE as is, and it would keep us from being pigeonholed into being wrench monkeys.

You know what? I would LOVE to be pigeonholed. That would be a great step up considering the hole we get put into now is the dank one where all the engi’s sit and get drunk instead of being asked out on dates to the fractals.

I’d just love to be useful, that’s all. Sure, whatever, let everyone buy some “repair” kit at the vendor for cash/karma, but the engineer could do it slightly faster and for free.

You are completely wrong IMO. I enjoy my Engineer more than any other class, and in fractals I’m a pretty invaluable asset with my ability to support while dealing decent damage and taking a beating. Are we the best? No. Are we fun? Absolutely. Maybe Engineer isn’t the class for you if power = fun. Power isn’t everything, and mechanically playing an Engineer is a blast (for me).

Well that’s why I’m playing this class, besides the fact I don’t want to reroll anything and I took a personality quiz somewhere that said “engineer is the class for you!”

However, I could have fun playing with my toys instead of doing damage if all my toys weren’t the cheap kind that look fun but really aren’t. Setting up insidious landmines to screw everyone over sounds really fun, but they completely and totally suck for everything but surprising the enemy since he has no idea what blew him back as it’s never happened to him before.

Turrets seem really fun, but they’re made cheap and fall apart as soon as they leave the package.

Gadgets sound like fun. You tear off the little advertisement off the skills page, send in your skillpoints, and get sent back some cheap chachki with a letter weeks later saying “sorry, elementalists got the versatility.”

Kits are fun, but it’s like a set of toys you’ve lost some of the pieces to. Some of the pieces are still there and working, but the others are placeholders made of playdough.

Engineers can unleash some good combo finishers with bombs. Compared to an ele they’ll do less damage in a dungeon but support the group more. Unfortunately, the perception defeats the reality. The perception is that engineers can’t fill that role or do it as well as elementalists.

But the OP is right. Engineers are not wanted end game. You can still do some stuff and you can still get into groups but as with all MMO’s, min/maxing is always rewarded and versatility is not. The truth is that elementalists even have us beat there – they’re easily the most versatile profession to ever grace any MMO.

Chickenshoes.6250:

engineer is the class for you!"*

However, I could have fun playing with my toys instead of doing damage if all my toys weren’t the cheap kind that look fun but really aren’t. Setting up insidious landmines to screw everyone over sounds really fun, but they completely and totally suck for everything but surprising the enemy since he has no idea what blew him back as it’s never happened to him before.

Turrets seem really fun, but they’re made cheap and fall apart as soon as they leave the package.

Gadgets sound like fun. You tear off the little advertisement off the skills page, send in your skillpoints, and get sent back some cheap chachki with a letter weeks later saying “sorry, elementalists got the versatility.”

Kits are fun, but it’s like a set of toys you’ve lost some of the pieces to. Some of the pieces are still there and working, but the others are placeholders made of playdough.

This is exactly the problem, and the reason why I created the thread. On paper the engineer profession looks so enticing, but in practice it falls so far short of the mark. Yes there are parts of the class that you can use to be effective, but so much of what brought me to the class just doesn’t pan out.

Letifer.4360:

For a second I thought this was the Ranger forum lolol

The real irony is that Rangers are better at switching roles midfight than Engineers. As annoying as they are to control and preserve, pet effects tend to be very powerful. I ran CoF the other day with a Ranger who kept a pig on tap, and we all were so happy to have her switching between cat and pig in those tedious trash fights.

Rangers are actually in a way better place than engineers right now, and I think the play stats and pvp performance suggests that. The best part for now is that everyone underestimates the ranger, so when they bust out with a GC sword build w/ quickness while their cat goes wild and eat 10k of your health in 3 seconds all you can think is, “Omg haxx?”

Atlanis.6597:

tigirius.9014:

holska.4127:

Let those new players decide for themselves please?
Opinions differ and for some the way the class feels while playing and its mechanics are more important than being one of the best classes out there for whatever purpose or being the top damaging class.
The engineer is still effective and fun to play imo.
And saying you have to play flawlessly in most cases to beat other classes is just plain wrong as I also spend most my time in WvW, am far from flawless and don’t loose many 1v1’s to any class (incl. thieves and mesmers). Yes it takes longer to kill but isn’t hardly as much effort to get things done as say a staff ele.

We are but there is a need to inform the new players what the game is like end game. In this title, even loot suddenly and completely changes for players after they reach level 80. It’s like a punishment for reaching max level or something rather then a reward. So in order to let the new players know what’s happening these threads are necessary. When the OP posted this I’m sure he was talking about pve. All I see when people ask about the builds for this class are all pvp and that’s sad because this game is so much more then a pvp esport. If players want to play pvp only that’s great engis have hardly the issues people see in pve in pvp. But if they wish to play pve end game forget it. It’s either minmax to barely keep up, die constantly because of it, or go reroll anything else because anything else will literally be more fun then the way they’ve done this class right now. It really is that bad in the pve side right now. People can pretend but there’s far too much wrong with the class to play and enjoy yourself.

You are completely wrong IMO. I enjoy my Engineer more than any other class, and in fractals I’m a pretty invaluable asset with my ability to support while dealing decent damage and taking a beating. Are we the best? No. Are we fun? Absolutely. Maybe Engineer isn’t the class for you if power = fun. Power isn’t everything, and mechanically playing an Engineer is a blast (for me).

I’m glad you are enjoying yourself but I’m definitely not wrong. And neither is anyone else who’s complained about these problems because there’s this little thing called math, and the math shows us that in a typical fight miss occur far too often, and that damage with even our conditions isn’t on par with the weakest of other classes so there definitely is room for improvement overall.

Not to mention the sheer chaos that is the trait lines on the engineer compared to the other two adventurer classes.

Right now with all the problems of the engineer I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone for anything other then pre-80 content. Once you reach 80, forget it, there’s just too much wrong with the class.

KirinDave.6451:

Letifer.4360:

For a second I thought this was the Ranger forum lolol

The real irony is that Rangers are better at switching roles midfight than Engineers. As annoying as they are to control and preserve, pet effects tend to be very powerful. I ran CoF the other day with a Ranger who kept a pig on tap, and we all were so happy to have her switching between cat and pig in those tedious trash fights.

Rangers are actually in a way better place than engineers right now, and I think the play stats and pvp performance suggests that. The best part for now is that everyone underestimates the ranger, so when they bust out with a GC sword build w/ quickness while their cat goes wild and eat 10k of your health in 3 seconds all you can think is, “Omg haxx?”

Yeah even RANGERs got fixes…LOL I know i play one of those too. So I’m seeing directly what the differences are. My level 43 ranger can three shot things in condi traps build without every trait tier unlocked better then my full exotic level 80 engineer downscaled to the same zone my ranger is in. When this happens there’s something definitely wrong here. And nerfs and underwater combat fixes aren’t the answer sorry.

Meh..I am tired of spending money on this company trying to find a class that looks fun. Engineer is about the only one that really appeals to me but engineers simply will not get fixed.

nofo.8469:

NastyPiggy.2046:

Isslair.4908:

NastyPiggy.2046:

My build is dual pistols with elixirs, but I can easily change it to pistol/shield or flamethrower or elixir.

So?
Again, all professions can change weapons. That’s not versatility. You’re not suddenly going from supporter to tank to dps. And no, 200 toughness don’t make you a tank.

NastyPiggy.2046:

If I go with rifle, I go all the way across with the power line so I can get more damage and switch out to nades if I want.

Still changing from dps to dps.

Where is the versatility? Your examples are what other classes do just by pressing swap weapon button.

What the hell, dps to dps, it’s completely different dps, you go from single target to AoEs that can keep people from attacking the keep at close range. It’s COMPLETELY different and if you can’t see that, i guess I can’t help you.

No 200 toughness doesn’t make you a tank, but it does help, plus the stacks of might come in handy… oh yeah, that extra 15% damage boost isn’t bad being tossed in there too.

I think his point is other classes can go from one “entirely different type!” of dps spec to another with the press of a button.

They can? Does it switch out their traits? One push of the button and I can go from dual pistols to melee with a wrench and have a shield.

I can run with a pistol and shield and switch out to nades, flamethrower or elixir gun…

Yes, in 1 setup you can have shield/pistol(up close fighting), flamethrower(AoE damage when attacking), elixir gun(for support with slow downs and heals) and nades.(for support and damage).. that’s 4 different roles without having to do anything other then slot those skills and then press them when you want them.

NastyPiggy.2046:

Yes, in 1 setup you can have shield/pistol(up close fighting), flamethrower(AoE damage when attacking), elixir gun(for support with slow downs and heals) and nades.(for support and damage).. that’s 4 different roles without having to do anything other then slot those skills and then press them when you want them.

…Without any utility skills like stun-breakers, invulnerability and stuff. Yeah, way to go.

I wonder if some people on forums actually play the game or only imagine things from skill-builder sites. =\

Isslair.4908:

NastyPiggy.2046:

Yes, in 1 setup you can have shield/pistol(up close fighting), flamethrower(AoE damage when attacking), elixir gun(for support with slow downs and heals) and nades.(for support and damage).. that’s 4 different roles without having to do anything other then slot those skills and then press them when you want them.

…Without any utility skills like stun-breakers, invulnerability and stuff. Yeah, way to go.

I wonder if some people on forums actually play the game or only imagine things from skill-builder sites. =\

Then how about this… you take ONE kit…. so you have a total of TWO setups like almost all other professions then have your stun-breakers and what not? You CAN have up to 4 IF YOU WANT, but less if you wanted added benefits of elixirs and stun breakers. You do play an engineer, you do know you don’t have to equip 3 kits if you don’t want don’t you?

I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread about the investment we must make deep into our trait lines to make many of our options borderline viable. This applies directly to the false claims of versatility.

Moreover, the engineer needs an entire trait revamp that will provide enhancements to entire lines of the profession… A simplistic example would be a trait that provides a 10-15% damage buff for all kits or all weapons, or 20% reduction on cooldown for all kits/weapons, 25% speed bonus both in and out of combat when any kit is equipped. You get the point.

On that note, equipping a kit should give an automatic stat bonus… i.e., 200 to healing when medkit is equipped… precision for flamethrower, 200 toughness for toolkit, etc.

I haven’t thought this all the way through, but why aren’t our kits accessable in the F1-F4 like the elementalist’s? The corresponding toolbelt skill should become utility skills.

Just some suggestions, feel free to pick them apart.

MrSilver.5269:

I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread about the investment we must make deep into our trait lines to make many of our options borderline viable. This applies directly to the false claims of versatility.

Do you have to go deep into the trait lines to make a kit viable? I think the elixir gun and flamethrower do their jobs without traits just fine but you sure can enhance their damage and speed if you want. Same with the wrench and nades(although the extra nades trait enhance it more then other kit’s traits).

Taking a kit means trading it for a utility skill. And in return we get a rather bad toolbelt skill (and yeah they are bad, utility skills a meant to provide utility not to be one of the damage sources) and ability to swap weapons. The same ability all other professions get for free (!) and eles even have 4 weapon sets.

And changing to a kit don’t change your role. Just makes you do it better (grenades) or worse (FT, elixir gun, bombs). It’s not versatility. It’s just the same kitten with different model. You can’t even compare it to attunement change of elementalists.

Well… BoB is pretty good, being one of our blast finishers alongside a knockback. The other kit Toolbelt skills are somewhat disappointing.

I’m pretty sure our kits aren’t bound to F1-F4 as an attempt to distinguish us from those nasty Elementalists. The two classes do seem to step on each others toes.

As for versatility with weapon sets… We have 3 weapon sets and can use one at a time. If you take one (non-med) kit to unlock your weapon swapping, you can have up to 15 different weapon combinations you might bring. So let’s look at Ranger, who does not have the Warrior’s insane number of different weapons to swap to, and 2 weapon sets. Disregarding which of them actually works well (one would hope in the totality of things they will eventually work well), a Ranger has 11 different weapon sets it can equip in either of those slots, for a total of ~60 different combinations (Divide by 2 for interchanging the order). If you don’t like Ranger, Necromancer has 50 different combinations it might pack into those two slots, Mesmer 50, Thief ~25 (Elementalist has 5), Guardian 72, and Warrior ~180. With two kits we have 30 options, and carrying three kits we also have 30 different combinations we might make (If these numbers seem small, it’s because you have to account for interchanging the order of the kits giving you the same skills, the number is 2 and 6, respectively). I may have been sloppy with double counting (can you wield identical weapon sets?), but that is a comparably small adjustment (proportional to the square root, maybe with a factor of 2). I admit some of the weapon sets for other classes are very similar, but that really just represents the option to sacrifice the versatility of your build for more power at a certain role (having that option makes the profession, overall, more versatile).

I played a condition P/P-based Engineer for a while, then I ended up checking the Necromancer forums and clicked Lopez’s guide for Condition Necromancers and next thing I know I deleted my Engineer and my Necromancer is rapidly closing in on my Warrior for most-played character.

I really want to love playing an Engineer, but so far I can only love the class and concept itself, but I can’t stand playing as one.

Rhinzual.7861:

I played a condition P/P-based Engineer for a while, then I ended up checking the Necromancer forums and clicked Lopez’s guide for Condition Necromancers and next thing I know I deleted my Engineer and my Necromancer is rapidly closing in on my Warrior for most-played character.

I really want to love playing an Engineer, but so far I can only love the class and concept itself, but I can’t stand playing as one.

I’ve heard your story a hundred times on the forums sadly. I can’t imagine why people think that this class is perfectly fine when people are leaving it in the dust in droves because other classes aren’t in beta status, were given enough attention that their builds work fluidly and in harmony, or that somehow it’s normal to see medieval weaponry do tons more damage then 20th century military weapons. The last one I just have to facepalm and shake my head at. If reality fit this games design for weapons, our soldiers would still be running around in knight’s armor swinging claymores, that’s how our wars would be fought in modern times….

holska.4127:

All I see when people ask about the builds for this class are all pvp and that’s sad because this game is so much more then a pvp esport.

not THAT much more, really. At least for me.

on topic: eng is decent at most, comparable to necro in terms on awkwardness of the skills / traits. IMO it`s a mediocre prof, with many clunky mechanics.

Since you got the game, try it and see if it suits your play style.

Engineer was riddled with bugs and still in a pre-alpha state for fluidity, playability & balance at release. Shockingly it’s only got worse instead of better since release.

It’s the ongoing mismanagement, and total failure to bug fix that are the best arguments for staying clear, engineers have less viable builds now than at release.

Engies really have only 1 build. Bunker bombs. I find the class easier to support with than most but I cannot tank or kill anything nearly was well as the other classes.

One problem I see with engy is the crappy utility spells. I really don’t want any of them except maybe 3. Otherwise I’m just rolling around with different kits.

-Healing kit needs to change. Preferably double the power on those med packs or toss out heals like grenades.

-Flamethrowing is horrible with damage. Completely unusable in PvP due to the moving targets everywhere inturrupting your combo.

-Grenades need a targeting autoattack. I can’t kite at all with them making them near useless in PvP.

-Standard weapons all have horrible damage potential.

-Shield abilities are too situational and slow.

-Conditions have extremely short durations. Only the Elixir gun has decent condition damage and time. Everything else has 2 second or less condition timers.

-The class doesn’t have enough buffs. Even the elementalist can attribute dance and keep about 4 buffs on themselves at all time. Engineers only get an occasional swift, protection, or regen with most of their abilities.

-Turrets do nothing. Even when specced to make them powerful, they do nothing. The earthquake turret is the only one I use because its the only one that will take hits and has decent utility. Most turrets spend their time shooting indestructible background objects. Animation and particle effects for turrets are lackluster and make it hard to see what the turret is hitting or whether the turret has performed its special ability.

-toughness and vitality don’t do enough to make the class semi tanky. A cloth wearing Necro can with the best Warriors and Guardians. A Juggernaut Engy will die to a thief in less than 5 moves.

-Bombs and Elixir gun are the only things good on engineers right now.

Kinda wish this topic existed before I made an engineer and leveled it fully. Had I known all the problems an engie faced alongside heavy nerfing and neglect sooner, I would have spent that same time leveling a soldier or ele and gotten rich from massive loot drops.

Urrelles.4018:

Engies really have only 1 build. Bunker bombs. I find the class easier to support with than most but I cannot tank or kill anything nearly was well as the other classes.

One problem I see with engy is the crappy utility spells. I really don’t want any of them except maybe 3. Otherwise I’m just rolling around with different kits.

-Healing kit needs to change. Preferably double the power on those med packs or toss out heals like grenades.

-Flamethrowing is horrible with damage. Completely unusable in PvP due to the moving targets everywhere inturrupting your combo.

-Grenades need a targeting autoattack. I can’t kite at all with them making them near useless in PvP.

-Standard weapons all have horrible damage potential.

-Shield abilities are too situational and slow.

-Conditions have extremely short durations. Only the Elixir gun has decent condition damage and time. Everything else has 2 second or less condition timers.

-The class doesn’t have enough buffs. Even the elementalist can attribute dance and keep about 4 buffs on themselves at all time. Engineers only get an occasional swift, protection, or regen with most of their abilities.

-Turrets do nothing. Even when specced to make them powerful, they do nothing. The earthquake turret is the only one I use because its the only one that will take hits and has decent utility. Most turrets spend their time shooting indestructible background objects. Animation and particle effects for turrets are lackluster and make it hard to see what the turret is hitting or whether the turret has performed its special ability.

-toughness and vitality don’t do enough to make the class semi tanky. A cloth wearing Necro can with the best Warriors and Guardians. A Juggernaut Engy will die to a thief in less than 5 moves.

-Bombs and Elixir gun are the only things good on engineers right now.

Don’t listen to the real trolls Urrelles the glaring issues we face and the inequality in the way the classes function due to nerfs and bugs is the real issue.

Altho i have to disagree with you right now EG is not a good weapon right now. sure you can use the #3 to cause a huge increase in conditions but it hardly does any direct damage and neither does it’s #1 for that matter.

Grenades do need an autotarget autoattack so that you can move and dodge without having to turn yourself into a pretzel to hit all the necessary keys. been arguing that for a very long time now. Also, grenades are a ranged weapon essentially yet the limitations on them are so great they might as well take them out of the game. Basically by the time you throw a grenade ranger’s using bows will have killed the mob before you get there.

What we need is a good viable crit build, right now Rifle barely does anything and it amazes me that the baseline damage of rifles between Warriors and Engis is different for some reason. The math doesn’t add up as to why.