Guild Wars 2

Blows my mind how many engines seem incapable of hitting 1-5 while right clicking the mouse for free-camera and using WASD.

Same goes for this auto target kittening, try learning to lead your target … with skill.

edit: Mebbe pick up an FPS or two and practice not being newbs at action games, given that GW2 is pretty light on the RPG, especially your beloved engine.

nakoda.4213:

Blows my mind how many engines seem incapable of hitting 1-5 while right clicking the mouse for free-camera and using WASD.

Same goes for this auto target kittening, try learning to lead your target … with skill.

edit: Mebbe pick up an FPS or two and practice not being newbs at action games, given that GW2 is pretty light on the RPG, especially your beloved engine.

How often do you play paid tourneys?

Coltz.5617:

How often do you play paid tourneys?

Irrelevant to being capable of manipulating your keyboard/mouse. Pve, pvp, tPvP, spvp, wvw, doesn’t matter, WASD and 1-5 are always in the same place.

Edit: remember mmos with 20+ key binds? Peeps kittening about 5-10 is laughable.

LAUGHABLE…
kekekekittenkeke
you must learn to master WASD
Doesn’t mater if the game is free or paid,
Your lack of control doesn’t make the grade.

Problem with grenades is the travel time, not the controls. The target can basically make a sandwich, have a coffee, read their favourite magazine and still have plenty of time to simply walk out of the circle without even actively dodging.

Longbow Rangers used to have the same issue, but ANet increased the speed of arrows and that simple change made a pretty big difference.

The issue is lack of a longer lasting swiftness, then, and not the functionality of grenades, because the only trouble I ever have is when a target goes oor, which is never, since we have 1500 range trained.

We have a mobile, free targeting projectile that collides with obstacles (buggy, yes), has aoe damage and a variety of conditions, and can be hot-swapped at will with a 1 sec timer? Kittens, that sucks.

blurps.2340:

Problem with grenades is the travel time, not the controls. The target can basically make a sandwich, have a coffee, read their favourite magazine and still have plenty of time to simply walk out of the circle without even actively dodging.

Longbow Rangers used to have the same issue, but ANet increased the speed of arrows and that simple change made a pretty big difference.

Was that a recent change? I did notice some time ago I could sidestep and avoid their shots altogether, if grenades could get a speed buff in that way it would be a godsend, though the grenade kit as a whole still sucks.

Grenade speed was increased 10-15% in the Nov. 15 update.

nakoda.4213:

Grenade speed was increased 10-15% in the Nov. 15 update.

Grenades need a 100% speed increase, minimum. A lot of engineer skills are completely pre-alpha in their animation speeds, jump-shot, net-shots, elixir-toss etc etc.

binidj.5734:

KirinDave.6451:

It’s to the point where I don’t want to inflict my engineer on other people. I am at the point where I feel guilty bringing an engineer into a party because I am pretty sure I am doing 1/4 of what anyone else facerolling the keyboard could do.

This pretty much sums up how I feel at the moment. I love playing my engineer solo, it takes a bit more time than my other professions but I feel much more in control of pretty much any situation. When it comes to group content though I feel that I am contributing less and that makes me uncomfortable so, unless there is clearly a lack of support then I’ll bring a different character.

Caveat: It may well be that I’m an unskilled player, in fact this is very likely; but it’s sad that I feel that I can’t contribute as much with this one profession in PvE group content as I can playing other professions with an equal lack of skill.

I feel this way too, i left a COF group yesterday feeling this way (pretty useless to be honest) i should not feel this way in a online game, thanks for that Anet…

Blows my mind how many engines seem incapable of hitting 1-5 while right clicking the mouse for free-camera and using WASD.

Same goes for this auto target kittening, try learning to lead your target … with skill.

edit: Mebbe pick up an FPS or two and practice not being newbs at action games, given that GW2 is pretty light on the RPG, especially your beloved engine.

I can hit 1-5 just fine, what happens between me and my enemy is what makes Engineer so crappy, you can have as much skill as anyone but when you do 1/3 of every other class…skill is pointless and useless..

nakoda.4213:

Grenade speed was increased 10-15% in the Nov. 15 update.

That was limited to s/tPvP and noone in their right mind uses grenades in that game mode anyway.

Thenoob.1480:

blurps.2340:

Problem with grenades is the travel time, not the controls. The target can basically make a sandwich, have a coffee, read their favourite magazine and still have plenty of time to simply walk out of the circle without even actively dodging.

Longbow Rangers used to have the same issue, but ANet increased the speed of arrows and that simple change made a pretty big difference.

Was that a recent change?

Yup, the big December patch. Was a global change across all game modes too.

Seems like a lot of you are doing it wrong.

Just because you’re not good at a class doesn’t make it bad. It makes you bad. Go play your “easy mode” warrior and thief.

I’m not saying this class isn’t flawed. Truth is all the classes are flawed, it’s still a new game especially considering anet spent their time during the holidays working on holiday events for obvious business reasons and taking vacation like real people do.

Engineer is not an easy class to play. I am constantly switching kits and lining up combos. I even read into situations before I get to them and change out utility skills/weapons/armor to deal with them accordingly and you know what? I ALWAYS excel. 5/10 times I will send a flavor of the month mesmer or thief running for the hills because they’re not used to being countered. 4/10 they stick around to die. And that 1/10 they actually take me down. It happens. Why? Because there is balance between classes, and the engineer is just as good as any other.

TL;DR – Engineer isn’t bad, you are bad. Go play your “easy mode”warrior class.

Killer Parakeet.9435:

Seems like a lot of you are doing it wrong.

Just because you’re not good at a class doesn’t make it bad. It makes you bad. Go play your “easy mode” warrior and thief.

I’m not saying this class isn’t flawed. Truth is all the classes are flawed, it’s still a new game especially considering anet spent their time during the holidays working on holiday events for obvious business reasons and taking vacation like real people do.

Engineer is not an easy class to play. I am constantly switching kits and lining up combos. I even read into situations before I get to them and change out utility skills/weapons/armor to deal with them accordingly and you know what? I ALWAYS excel. 5/10 times I will send a flavor of the month mesmer or thief running for the hills because they’re not used to being countered. 4/10 they stick around to die. And that 1/10 they actually take me down. It happens. Why? Because there is balance between classes, and the engineer is just as good as any other.

TL;DR – Engineer isn’t bad, you are bad. Go play your “easy mode”warrior class.

Not really, you will find plenty of people in these threads that are unhappy with the state of engineer actually enjoy the busy playstyle and both understand and like that it takes a bit more than say a thief, that however is a seperate issue from balance.

In PvP terms engineers are nowhere, they are not a preferred choice for any real role in tPvP, because even when played by a competent player they will not perform on the same level as other certain other classes in that role played by an equally competent player.

That you or indeed anyone else beats often terrible players (or undergeared, or underlevelled) in WvW is irrelevant, it has nothing to do with class balance.

If you ever watch streams, then you’ll find there are people a lot better than you that feel the class is not in a good place at the moment.

Well good for those people then. My point is if the class is not working out for you, then clearly you should do something else instead of crying and hoping anet gives you a “kill” button.

I will state for the record though that I play spvp, wvw, and pve.

I have a mesmer and ranger up to level 80 and do not stomp nearly as much face as I do on my engineer. I have a character for every class. Some other classes I spvp with I do just as well. The draw back for the other “equal” classes is that they are incredibly boring. Same faceroll easy kill over and over. The engineer breaks down every aspect of the battle to where you can compensate for any unexpected variables. If you can’t figure out how to make that work for you then it’s not the classes fault. This whole game is about thinking on your feet and adapting to any situation thrown at you, and I believe the engineer is perfectly geared just for that.

For the record I don’t watch streams, whatever that is, I’m too busy stomping that thief after he just used HS 6 times and is now trying to run away from a fight that was just supposed to be an easy kill.

I love playing my engineer, it’s by far my favorite class. If all this crying you kids are doing brings about some buffs from anet I’ll welcome them. But in all honesty I hope they do something to make this class less desirable to the masses. It’s already gotten easier since the much needed grenade nerf. No one plays engineer, so no one knows how to handle them

Killer Parakeet.9435:

Seems like a lot of you are doing it wrong.

Just because you’re not good at a class doesn’t make it bad. It makes you bad. Go play your “easy mode” warrior and thief.

Look, the very fact you admit that the Warrior and Thief can do bigger and better things with less effort is the problem. Those classes are where they should be; Engineer is not. End of discussion.

There isn’t some special medal you get at the end of the day that says, “Congratulations you played Engineer and We All Know That’s Rough.” There is Glory, there are Kills, there is your server’s WvW rank, there is your PvE progression, and there is you having fun.

If you have fun playing Engineer, for whatever reason… Great? But please don’t try to take that feeling of satisfaction as a sign that the class is okay. Because that sense of satisfaction you feel is what you have, but by your own admission its not a class that is directly competitive.

Killer Parakeet.9435:

it’s still a new game especially considering anet spent their time during the holidays working on holiday events for obvious business reasons and taking vacation like real people do.

And we all appreciate that. And we all realize that the game is new and it’s certainly in a better play balance state than WoW was within year 1.

But that doesn’t mean we’re going to call the Engineer anything but a deficient class. If we don’t complain, no one will. Because if Anet isn’t aware of the problem then the L80 engineers we have cooling their heels will be sitting there mocking us for wasting time on them.

Killer Parakeet.9435:

Engineer is not an easy class to play. I am constantly switching kits and lining up combos…

I cut this off because it’s so boring and predictable. Congratulations, you’re a good player. You can play most classes and do well against bad players. And you know what? Honestly good players are rare, so you probably only seldom meet your equal.

So let’s pretend that everything you’re saying is true and you’re awesome: none of that matters. What the engineer is right now, and its class design, is not competitive. And while you may spend your time patting your back for succeeding with engineer, the vast majority of players (who are all less deserving of oxygen than you, we grant) are not playing engineer. The stats for the class are plummeting, and that’s what Anet has to listen to.

Pats self on back gratuitously

I just don’t understand the negative point of view here. The stats are plummeting yes. Why does everyone come here to complain about it? I have no clue. Anet is a big boy, he can handle his b’ness.

17 years of mmo play tell me, the engineer class design is unfinished, lacking vision, coherence and focus. That happens with getting MMO games out on time sometimes and it would be fine if the class wasn’t getting worse not better post release, and we didn’t have a class design statement justifying this unfinished mess as intentional.

tigirius.9014:

Rhinzual.7861:

I played a condition P/P-based Engineer for a while, then I ended up checking the Necromancer forums and clicked Lopez’s guide for Condition Necromancers and next thing I know I deleted my Engineer and my Necromancer is rapidly closing in on my Warrior for most-played character.

I really want to love playing an Engineer, but so far I can only love the class and concept itself, but I can’t stand playing as one.

I’ve heard your story a hundred times on the forums sadly. I can’t imagine why people think that this class is perfectly fine when people are leaving it in the dust in droves because other classes aren’t in beta status, were given enough attention that their builds work fluidly and in harmony, or that somehow it’s normal to see medieval weaponry do tons more damage then 20th century military weapons. The last one I just have to facepalm and shake my head at. If reality fit this games design for weapons, our soldiers would still be running around in knight’s armor swinging claymores, that’s how our wars would be fought in modern times….

Wanna know what’s really making me like Necromancer even more? I’m able to take down a couple Ascalonian Ghost Veterans near that skillpoint challenge in the 1-15 area and when I got too low after the Mage was near death and Captain attacking me? Just popped Death Shroud, focused the Mage down, moved to a safe spot and finished off the captain via wonderful bleed stacking.

Could I have done that as an Engineer? I don’t think I could have killed the mage at all with the Captain there. I have superior AOE damage from Scepter/Dagger skills and Epidemic, Blood is Power/Poison Cloud for stacking conditions on single enemies like champions and then hitting Consume Conditions to remove all the self-inflicted conditions to fuel my 20-second CD heal even further. Plus, if it gets to the point my enemy and I are both near death, I can, as I said before, just pop Death Shroud to give myself temporary invulnerability via the Life Force health bar. Well of Blood also counts as a Combo Field and people can remove a lot of conditions using the right combo finisher in it’s radius. It’s not quite regen turret, but it doesn’t run the risk of exploding too early and I can move and drop Well of Blood wherever needed and be helpful.

I mean Engineers do get stuff like Grenade Kit and Flame Thrower, but you have to wait until you get 30 points in one tree before the kits really, really start to shine. I’m shining like a plague-filled star at just level 32 on my Necromancer.

ANet really needs to drop the whole ‘versatility’ philosophy and make Engineers useful at something, because it ain’t versatility if you have to spec fully into a trait line to make one aspect of a kit that hurts your stats somewhat useful.

Not to mention Grenadier can actually hurt the DPS as the further the grenades fly out, the more spread out the become and less likely to have all the explosions affect the intended target. Oh, and Forceful Explosives does beyond the exact opposite of what it’s supposed to do, so anyone using Grenadier and Forceful Explosives will be lucky to hit their intended target -AT ALL- and that is unacceptable.

Killer Parakeet.9435:

Well good for those people then. My point is if the class is not working out for you, then clearly you should do something else instead of crying and hoping anet gives you a “kill” button.

You didn’t have a point, you came out with some illogical waffle that because you beat some bad/undergeared/underleveled mesmers/thiefs in WvW that it equates to the engineer being on a par (or better) than other classes, when it does nothing of the sort.

That anyone who complains merely needs to l2p, despite the fact there are people far better than you who complain about the state of the class.

The only decent measure for PvP class balance is what happens with the better players / teams in tPvP, engineers do not fair well at the moment.

Killer Parakeet.9435:

If you can’t figure out how to make that work for you then it’s not the classes fault. This whole game is about thinking on your feet and adapting to any situation thrown at you, and I believe the engineer is perfectly geared just for that.

You aren’t getting the class to work for you, you are getting it to work against bad / average players, that is totally irrelevant to class balance, that you can’t grasp that is pretty funny.

Killer Parakeet.9435:

For the record I don’t watch streams, whatever that is, I’m too busy stomping that thief after he just used HS 6 times and is now trying to run away from a fight that was just supposed to be an easy kill.

Try and work out how beating a thief that spams HS is related to beating bad players.

Killer Parakeet.9435:

No one plays engineer, so no one knows how to handle them

Well I don’t know about PvE as I avoid that in this game as the PvE is not very good (the group PvE, the world itself / exploring is pretty nice), but there used to be a lot more engineers in sPvP/tPvP, but nerfs (loss of stability, loss of flamethrower pull, smoke bomb nerf, exlixir R nerf, indirect nerf to elixir R with down state health changes, etc) have led them to drop down the pecking order, why have engy playing node defender, when an equally competent player will be more effective as a guardian?

Every good player knows how to handle them, which is why they are behind other classes for every role in the part of the game where the good players are tPvP, there are better bunkers, better team fighters, better roamers, etc.

On a side note, you do realize that in PvE and WvW, other balance issues aside that engineers are playing at a disadvantage, because you lose your weapon stats when you swap to kit.

Killer Parakeet.9435:

I just don’t understand the negative point of view here

Because you don’t really have a clue what you are talking about, thus have an inaccurate view of the balance of the engineer in relation to other classes. If the “whining” is too much for you then don’t read those threads.

As for Anet, never have I seen a game more in need of a public test server, the number of “bug fixes” that have failed to work or broken something else is astounding.

I hope they can, I really hope…. Because I left this game. I have engi, warri, thief and ele on level 80. It’s fine, engi sucks I could play other classes. But the fact they ignore one great class completly makes me leave this game.

Sylosi.6503:

Killer Parakeet.9435:

Well good for those people then. My point is if the class is not working out for you, then clearly you should do something else instead of crying and hoping anet gives you a “kill” button.

You didn’t have a point, you came out with some illogical waffle that because you beat some bad/undergeared/underleveled mesmers/thiefs in WvW that it equates to the engineer being on a par (or better) than other classes, when it does nothing of the sort.

That anyone who complains merely needs to l2p, despite the fact there are people far better than you who complain about the state of the class.

Sylosi the only issue I have with anything that you are saying (other than the not playing PvE bit … that’s just odd ) is that you are blatantly engaging in the pastime of troll-feeding.

Best advice I can offer is that as soon as someone says “why not go play an easy-mode Warrior” is to stop reading … because that post, that’s a troll right there.

RaynStargaze.6510:

^not sure if troll or just really bad player hmmmm

The things I stated have nothing to do with how well I play. They are design flaws.

I’m a kitten player because my turret decides to shoot a rock instead of my enemy?

People don’t PvP with grenade. Why? The control scheme does not support kiting and attacking. Guess I’m a bad player because I can’t ground target and swivel my camera at the same time huh.

Standards weapon do crap damage. What does that have to do with skill.

Are you the troll here?

Killer Parakeet.9435:

Go play your “easy mode” warrior and thief.

Actually, I push a lot more buttons on my warrior, than I did on my grenade engi. Also I need to time the skills right. Not just faceroll during my grenade rotation.
Doesn’t change the fact, that a lot more tankier warrior deals a lot more damage.

Isslair.4908:

Killer Parakeet.9435:

Go play your “easy mode” warrior and thief.

Actually, I push a lot more buttons on my warrior, than I did on my grenade engi. Also I need to time the skills right. Not just faceroll during my grenade rotation.
Doesn’t change the fact, that a lot more tankier warrior deals a lot more damage.

This is the saddest part. Lots of people here like to call Warrior, Mesmer, and Thief “easymode”. I’ve even seen people call Necromancers “easymode” because of DS. And if you play it you realize that in PvP/WvW, everyone is working hard.

Killer Parakeet.9435:

Seems like a lot of you are doing it wrong.

Just because you’re not good at a class doesn’t make it bad. It makes you bad. Go play your “easy mode” warrior and thief.

I’m not saying this class isn’t flawed. Truth is all the classes are flawed, it’s still a new game especially considering anet spent their time during the holidays working on holiday events for obvious business reasons and taking vacation like real people do.

Engineer is not an easy class to play. I am constantly switching kits and lining up combos. I even read into situations before I get to them and change out utility skills/weapons/armor to deal with them accordingly and you know what? I ALWAYS excel. 5/10 times I will send a flavor of the month mesmer or thief running for the hills because they’re not used to being countered. 4/10 they stick around to die. And that 1/10 they actually take me down. It happens. Why? Because there is balance between classes, and the engineer is just as good as any other.

TL;DR – Engineer isn’t bad, you are bad. Go play your “easy mode”warrior class.

The fact that Warrior and thief are considered easy mode shows there are in fact huge class imbalances. This is not acceptable.

Engys have kits for a variety of situations, but they only have one truly good damage / support build. It involves bombs.

You know what class is even harder than an engineer? Elementalist. They are also considered underpowered. However they do have a variety of builds that are all viable. What’s really funny is the fact that an Elementalist doesn’t have to quickly swap out utility skills before combat to adapt to the situation. As you stated you are constantly switching out before each battle. Why? Because an Engy works 3 times harder to take down one foe. They not only need to switch to a new kit, they need 2 or 3 kits and different equipment to counter every class build out there. It literally takes your whole arsenal of abilities to fight one person. As a Guardian or Elementalist, I can just switch my weapon or attunement one time and use 5 specialized skills to take out my target. Not all 14 like an Engy does.

Bottom line, if a ranged hunters comes at me spamming his 1 – 5 keys and maybe using 1 or 2 utilities to kills me, with a controllable pet. I shouldn’t have to counter it by:
— Switching to gun, hitting him with 2 good abilities.
— Switching to bombs. Jumping in his face, and hitting with with maybe 2 abilities again.
—Then sacrificing my camera control to switch to grenade and ground target a few shot (which will probably miss because hell run behind me out of view or just strafe). —- Then going back to gun to use my 2 only viable moves for damage.

……and so on and on constantly switching kits and using 1 move here and there. The whole while my turret is shooting an indestructible barrel and not contributing to the fight.

Urrelles.4018:

Elementalist. They are also considered underpowered.

Lolwhat?
D\D eles are one of the most OP pvp professions.
Every high-end dungeon runner I know loves to have ele in a party.
Their versatility is awesome. I’ve never seen anyone saying that ele is underpowered.

Sure, I’ve seen a lot of useless eles in PUGs. But that just means that a skill ceiling for that class is rather high.

blurps.2340:

Problem with grenades is the travel time, not the controls. The target can basically make a sandwich, have a coffee, read their favourite magazine and still have plenty of time to simply walk out of the circle without even actively dodging.

Longbow Rangers used to have the same issue, but ANet increased the speed of arrows and that simple change made a pretty big difference.

I truly believe grenade control needs an update. In PvE it’s a great weapon. In PvP it is terrible. An all ground target build does not work in any high mobility gameplay.

The necromancer using a staff is nearly al ground target. However, there are two major difference that make a staff necro work in PvP.

1. An auto attack that targets an enemy. This allows the necro to use his Right mouse to track, dodge and strafe while still dealing a sustained damage. when the time is right the necro can then throw out another ground target.

2. The groun target abilities are ranged traps that stay in place. This turns the battlefield into a mine field which still benefits the Necro when it comes to zoning his target even if the abilities miss.

Now an Engineer lacks all of that in their Grenade kit.

1. You cannot ground target and control your camera at once. Once you right click the mouse dissapears and all ground attacks go to the position where the mouse was last scene on screen. This is bad control design. So the engy is not able to be mobile while throwing out sustained damage.

2. The Poison grenade is the only ability with a lingering effect for zone control. The kit does not have nay hard snares, so enemies will always walk or roll out of the poison zone. all other grenade moves are gone right after use. so you either hit or miss.

Isslair.4908:

Urrelles.4018:

Elementalist. They are also considered underpowered.

Lolwhat?
D\D eles are one of the most OP pvp professions.
Every high-end dungeon runner I know loves to have ele in a party.
Their versatility is awesome. I’ve never seen anyone saying that ele is underpowered.

Sure, I’ve seen a lot of useless eles in PUGs. But that just means that a skill ceiling for that class is rather high.

I see it a lot. Go to the Ele forums. You’ll see many post there talking about D/D being he only viable damage build with risk being too high for the damage it produces.

Of course an Ele is great in a group. The skill ceiling is the highest of all the classes in the game. But a Warrior & Guardian is still better at dishing out close range damage than a D/D Ele using any build.

Maybe the problem isn’t Eles or Engys being too weak. Maybe its Guardian and Warriors being too strong. But people don’t like nerfs so hitting those classes dmg potential hard will not go well int he community at all. But buffing the others will.

so, you guys remember that racing game with the plumber and the dinosaur and the mushroom?

you remember how, like, the plumber was pretty evenly balanced with acceleration and handling, but the dinosaur was really tight in the controls, but slow to get started, and then the mushroom was, like, the total opposite?

that game was kitten bullkitten, i mean, who do those designers think they are not making every playable character exactly the same.

absolutely unacceptable game design, IMO. people actually had to be better than one another to win in that game instead of having the most buttons to push.

my 24 years of in-home video game playing experience has stroked my kitten to the point where i know better than an entire team of educated and experienced developers. yarp.

Urrelles.4018:

1. You cannot ground target and control your camera at once. Once you right click the mouse dissapears and all ground attacks go to the position where the mouse was last scene on screen. This is bad control design. So the engy is not able to be mobile while throwing out sustained damage.

you and i disagree here. this is one of the best parts about the grenades and kiting.

you position cursor behind you 10 meter or what have you, then hold right click and WASD around, you know exactly where your grenades are, and can circle strafe around groups, kite them, even change directions mid fight because your AD turns into strafe instead of turn (that is, unless you were smart enough to already make that the default action, in which case no change).

when that group is dead, you … move your cursor! chances are you have breathing room again and can ranged nade some newbs by leading them to you, and then circle strafe all over again.

I. do. not. see. what. the. problem. with. controlling. your. character. is. yes. this. is. an. L2P. post. so. … L2P.

Go watch some videos by Teldo to see what you can do with the engineer in tPvP…
Engineer 1 on 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX7T5BqQd64&list=UUXOD8AuOQxlDD8ORiiXrMkw
How to solo the guild lord…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUl9yQM1a0s
Defending Nodes…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6h9cvRdNtU&list=UUXOD8AuOQxlDD8ORiiXrMkw

And here’s some tips for engineers from reddit…
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12pr1j/post_random_engineer_tips_so_more_people_would/

NastyPiggy.2046:

Go watch some videos by Teldo to see what you can do with the engineer in tPvP…

Then watch his stream and listen as he states engineers have been nerfed too much, that they lack survability in relation to the level of damage they can put out and how even if they go full burst (rifle static discharge) they still do less burst than certain other classes (but also whilst having much less survivability), how bomb kit is the only really good kit, how engys are very susceptable to burst, that unlike a lot of classes he has to play without making a mistake and that he is even questioning if his engy will be viable when they start playing tPvP again.

But I guess according to some of the WvW heroes on this thread, he must just be doing it all wrong and needs to L2P.

And just to make it clear, he does not spend all his time complaining, these are occasional comments or responses to questions from viewers in chat over many streams.

Sylosi.6503:

NastyPiggy.2046:

Go watch some videos by Teldo to see what you can do with the engineer in tPvP…

Then watch his stream and listen as he states engineers have been nerfed too much, that they lack survability in relation to the level of damage they can put out and how even if they go full DPS (rifle static discharge) they still do less burst than other classes (again whilst having less surviability), are very susceptable to burst, that unlike a lot of classes he has to play without making a mistake and that he is even questioning if his engy will be viable when they start playing tPvP again.

But I guess according to the some of the WvW heroes on this thread, he must just be doing it all wrong and needs to L2P.

What? Who said there were NO negatives to the engineer profession . I think what some other people(and myself) are saying is that the engineer is a viable class in pretty much all situations(some stronger then others). Look at the OP, he’s saying don’t roll an engineer, but an engineer is viable. There are people who have success with the engineer. The whole problem seems to be that it’s one of the more complex professions to figure out how to do well with. There’s lots of combinations you can do to vastly alter your play style but that doesn’t mean all combinations do well, especially when you’re not playing to their strengths.

This whole thread is about someone telling others this profession is so broken that it’s not worth playing, I and others happen to believe it’s false, how can a profession not be viable with people having success in different ways with the profession ?

I don’t have any max level characters yet.. But I wanted to add my own opinion about engineer, of course it’s fully subjective..
So I had my share of engineer. I leveled it up to over 20 and I didn’t think of anything special about it, it was ok to play. But in some point it hit me – I could beat up anything couple levels higher easily with my mesmer, but with engineer I was struggling all the time.. It didn’t seem any fun and I realized that there was something wrong with me or with the profession. The damage wasn’t sufficient enough, the kits were disappointing and healing was lousy.
So I thought engineer was too weak for my playstyle.. I deleted it and made a warrior instead, and never regretted doing so. And after reading this thread I’m even more happier that I deleted it. Engineer was not for me, but maybe it works for others. Personally, I want something different.

nakoda.4213:

Urrelles.4018:

1. You cannot ground target and control your camera at once. Once you right click the mouse dissapears and all ground attacks go to the position where the mouse was last scene on screen. This is bad control design. So the engy is not able to be mobile while throwing out sustained damage.

you and i disagree here. this is one of the best parts about the grenades and kiting.

you position cursor behind you 10 meter or what have you, then hold right click and WASD around, you know exactly where your grenades are, and can circle strafe around groups, kite them, even change directions mid fight because your AD turns into strafe instead of turn (that is, unless you were smart enough to already make that the default action, in which case no change).

when that group is dead, you … move your cursor! chances are you have breathing room again and can ranged nade some newbs by leading them to you, and then circle strafe all over again.

I. do. not. see. what. the. problem. with. controlling. your. character. is. yes. this. is. an. L2P. post. so. … L2P.

Thankyou for your L2P post. Now here’s mine.

Why go through the trouble of taking the extra time to position your cursor behind you to kite a bunch of newbs? Just pull out a bomb kit and do the same thing with a larger blast radius, more lingering effects, more damage, and healing on top of that?

That grenade tactic will work great on newb players, or PvE. Now what about pro players. You can default you mouse 10 feet away from you but a thief just has to F1 dash you and hes in your face. Now you have to either jump away and attempt to keep him 10 feet from you or re-adjust your mouse.
What happens when that same thief teleports behind you?
What happens when you have multiple enemies all around you?
What happens when you are playing against a character with zone control, like a necro. You gonna just walk into the big dangerous mark and take dmg so you can keep him in your grenade zone? Nope. you will have to stop pivoting your camera, readjust your mouse point, then start bombing again. Oh wait, that Necro moved again, and now has more marks.

The enemies are always moving and dodging your attacks. They have targeted you and now they are just holding down their Right mouse and focusing their camera on you. They are shooting abilities at you that auto lock as long as they stay in range and keep their camera looking in your general direction. If you get too close, their ability will still hit, if you jump away, it will still hit. It is auto targeting you.

You however are trying to move your camera in a way so that your Grenades land on them. Those grenades will only land in that one spot on your screen. If the enemy is closer or farther, those grenades will miss. You are attempting to manually aim all of your attacks, like a FPS, to hit your target. You are playing at a huge disadvantage.

I prefer to play smarter and just use a Bomb kit and a Pistol. You can play harder and try to keep your target in a tiny grenade circle.

Whell, since beta i keep rerolling classes. Trough i have a thief of lv 80, but dont feel call to play it, or in fact any other class.
Basically i wanted to play Necromancer, but it was designed in the totall opposite way i like the class.
I also like Warrior, but it was a boring thing to play. Not to mention, when every second player is warrior, you feel depressed, quite a lot.
I rolled Ga, but all my friends play it. Besides, it is not my style, i like to play range dd to not only support.
I wondered abaut Ele, but it the skill list was not to my taste. Trough i played it a lot, i still could not find inspiration to center my game araund it. Feels plain boring to me. Again putting aside the fact a LOT of players play it.

Then there was Engineer, who i still think is fun, but there are really basic resons i do hate it. Not going into indepth analysation, just plain simply put :
-His base weapons are not fun at all.
-Lacks the selection of weapon, without kits , that not only look always the same in contradiction of other classes amazing skinned weapon aparell, but also dont scale later on.
-Rifles are shotguns, i hate shotguns, there is no option to play them as a real ranged dd. Even if “aur” legendary weapon is basically a sniper rifle…we stil use it as a shotgun.
Totall bs. An reson alone not to play it.
-There are many cc and skills, yeah, but most of em close range, when Engineer was condamned to be range class…selfkilling character design?

Owerall i like the idea of the class, but it was implemented quite silly. Besides again the fact, even if oyu totally master the class, a Warr will simply outperform you with no effort.

So i am still looking for a decent class, that is fun, and fits me. But feels like a pointless struggle.

Miomooki.3812:

I don’t have any max level characters yet.. But I wanted to add my own opinion about engineer, of course it’s fully subjective..
So I had my share of engineer. I leveled it up to over 20 and I didn’t think of anything special about it, it was ok to play. But in some point it hit me – I could beat up anything couple levels higher easily with my mesmer, but with engineer I was struggling all the time.. It didn’t seem any fun and I realized that there was something wrong with me or with the profession. The damage wasn’t sufficient enough, the kits were disappointing and healing was lousy.
So I thought engineer was too weak for my playstyle.. I deleted it and made a warrior instead, and never regretted doing so. And after reading this thread I’m even more happier that I deleted it. Engineer was not for me, but maybe it works for others. Personally, I want something different.

I ran into the same situation with my engineer. Luckily it was my first class I played, so I didn’t have another one to go off of.

You did miss out however. The engineer becomes a PvE wrecking ball after level 25ish. Once you obtain a bomb kit or elixir gun, the game becomes easy mode. Especially if you invest in tier 10 or above trait points. Healing bombs would have put your mesmer to shame. you literally just aggro a bunch of mobs, pull out a bomb kit, then just sit there spamming your bombs and watch everything die within 10 seconds or less.

The problem you ran into was the lack of guild builds for this class. Relying on guns, and flamethrower is just bad. Anything not bombs is bad. This is what I want changed. I want all the kits to be viable in all play fields in this game; not just PvE.

NastyPiggy.2046:

Go watch some videos by Teldo to see what you can do with the engineer in tPvP…
Engineer 1 on 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX7T5BqQd64&list=UUXOD8AuOQxlDD8ORiiXrMkw
How to solo the guild lord…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUl9yQM1a0s
Defending Nodes…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6h9cvRdNtU&list=UUXOD8AuOQxlDD8ORiiXrMkw

And here’s some tips for engineers from reddit…
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12pr1j/post_random_engineer_tips_so_more_people_would/

We have. They’re… um… I mean I hate to be a jerk about it but they’re either not incredibly impressive OR they rely on things that don’t work anymore. Compared to what you can find for other classes, anyways. And maybe that’d be okay if Engineers had a higher diversity of builds than everyone else, right? But they don’t. You can make an Ele power bunker or GC or roamer, you can make a Ranger bunker (oh god these are insanely strong right now) or Roamer or GC (also under-appreciated).

I mean you go back and see the old pre-pistol nerf engineers and say, “Wow, GC pistols would rule!” Then you realize that all has been nerfed and the pistol tooltips lie about their ROF.

I don’t like to call specific people out this way because Teldo does a good job of it, given the tools he has. Great player. Mediocre results because of his toolset, though.

My advice is to go ahead and play engineer if you are interested in its playstyle. Like that flamethrower? Go ahead and have fun with it. If you learn the class in and out you will be fine in pvp environments and be able to get your share of kills. Or be able to play effectively in pve. However if you are looking for power, engineer is not the way to go and you will be left dissapointed.

my point exactly. if the mushroom is too squirrely foe you, try the dinosaur or the plumber.

I’m loving my engineer Mario Bros. Build.
Toolkit Pipe-wrench and pry bar combined with bomb kit and pistol shield for a tanky confusion stacking build is amazing fun in WvW and PvE. Then I swap out to grenades for tower defence and just lob crap over the wall. Great fun.

Kalan.9705:

nakoda.4213:

Grenade speed was increased 10-15% in the Nov. 15 update.

Grenades need a 100% speed increase, minimum. A lot of engineer skills are completely pre-alpha in their animation speeds, jump-shot, net-shots, elixir-toss etc etc.

Completely agree! Three things would help out the class immediately.

1. attack/animation speed of the supposedly faster attacks that go just as slow as the rifles #1 attacks (ie pistols, grenades)
2. kits scaling with stats
3. finally fixing the misses (and this includes but is not limited to the cone attacks as well as the new explosive radius bugs even before the bugs hit they nerfed the radius of the explosions to smaller then the splash damage of a thief’s dagger swings, even happened to bombs)

tigirius.9014:

Kalan.9705:

nakoda.4213:

Grenade speed was increased 10-15% in the Nov. 15 update.

Grenades need a 100% speed increase, minimum. A lot of engineer skills are completely pre-alpha in their animation speeds, jump-shot, net-shots, elixir-toss etc etc.

Completely agree! Three things would help out the class immediately.

1. attack/animation speed of the supposedly faster attacks that go just as slow as the rifles #1 attacks (ie pistols, grenades)
2. kits scaling with stats
3. finally fixing the misses (and this includes but is not limited to the cone attacks as well as the new explosive radius bugs even before the bugs hit they nerfed the radius of the explosions to smaller then the splash damage of a thief’s dagger swings, even happened to bombs)

I do not disagree at all, I was just answering the previous question.

Anet needs to stop playing on there thieves and warriors and seriously see the BS us engineers go through. For a week straight I’ve been trying to come up with builds to make the class seem useful or do more dmg than a Catholic School girl on Sunday on her way to church. But nothing at all has changed but diff ways to die. If they dnt work on this soon I think they might lose alot of active players in the engineer community. I mean I seriously dnt have fun anymore i just get depressed when i log on my engineer.

Spaceghost.3485:

or do more dmg than a Catholic School girl on Sunday on her way to church.

you ever met a pastor’s daughter on a sunday? she will school you in things you’ve only theorybated about.

don’t diss divine power.

Every time someone sifts thru the mess of half finished engineer skills and finds some weird new build that is above mediocre at just one thing Anet reacts.

Anet targets the marginally viable engineer build and smashes a nerf-hammer into it’s ballsac with such force that even it’s distant relatives fall down dead… what’s even more frustrating is A-net slightly adjusts the wording of a tooltip that was maybe mildly unclear at the same time, while completely covering their eyes to the actual engineer gameplay bugs.

Arenanet already gave us a method of playing better.

While on your Engineer, press F12 on your keyboard. Mac users have to do some funky fiddly thing; look it up.

Then, click a blank spot on the page you see. If you have no blank spots, throw money at Arenanet.

The details of the next couple screens are mostly unimportant, but just choose the options “mesmer”, “guardian”, or “warrior”. THIS is the important step.

Suddenly, your versatility as support and damage will increase severalfold. You will actually be an asset to your team, as well.

Spread the world. Engineers need to know this super secret tech.

Urrelles.4018:

You did miss out however. The engineer becomes a PvE wrecking ball after level 25ish. Once you obtain a bomb kit or elixir gun, the game becomes easy mode. Especially if you invest in tier 10 or above trait points. Healing bombs would have put your mesmer to shame. you literally just aggro a bunch of mobs, pull out a bomb kit, then just sit there spamming your bombs and watch everything die within 10 seconds or less.

Elixir Gun used to be really high level pre-SE nerf. Now I’m not sure it’s worth carrying over something else for a durability boost. Healing bombs requires level 60+ and the coefficient isn’t THAT high. I’m pretty sure pre nerf SE was a bigger boost to bunkering than the bombs were, though I haven’t touched SPvP since the patch (bad PC).

Nakoda, you haven’t yet given your explanation how to counter players who won’t fall for your “Put your cursor in one fixed spot while you kite them.” Killing bad players doesn’t count for anything. My counter is just to have ground target spells on fast cast and, basically only for when I’m using grenades, have one of my mouse keys (I just use one of the standard Logitech mice so there’s a couple thumb buttons) set to my 1 skill. That lets you move around and choose where to cast. Not a big fan of grenades though, so I haven’t used them too much in PvP.

Dunno what to say, I never implied that you leave the mouse in the same place and kite, I implied that you ought to know where your cursor is.

Not sure how to elaborate…

Target foe, toss nade at red circle;
Toss another in front of the circle;
Start moving, right click camera, strafe, toss another, or a wrench, or whatever;
Right click turn and strafe, toss nade while moving cursor, kite a ill more;
Generally keep your foes grouped, use turrets and other skills…

Lead nades on running foes, spin around, move mouse and lead shot while they turn around…

I dunno, .. Play like you mean it? I’ve never found an issue with targeting, I just play. When I miss, it’s because I was an idiot and didn’t lead enough or turn far enough, not because the nades didn’t go where I told them to. I guarantee that they landed exactly where I pointed.

Spaceghost.3485:

Anet needs to stop playing on there thieves and warriors and seriously see the BS us engineers go through. For a week straight I’ve been trying to come up with builds to make the class seem useful or do more dmg than a Catholic School girl on Sunday on her way to church. But nothing at all has changed but diff ways to die. If they dnt work on this soon I think they might lose alot of active players in the engineer community. I mean I seriously dnt have fun anymore i just get depressed when i log on my engineer.

What makes you think the engineer community consists of a lot of players? lol.

Think of it this way, considering ANet’s class balance team consists of two people, which classes are they going to spend the most time fixing? Ones like warriors/thieves and guardians?

Or engi/ranger/necro?

Neither, there gunna keep playing there thieves and soloing a small group by stealth dancing with knives lol. Until they get bored of coarse and get there jobs threatened if they dnt get back to work and finally nerf engi’s again.

Sry for my raging but i want this class to get better cuz its the most interesting and fun.