Guild Wars 2

Why does everyone complain about this class being crappy? Its not, sure there are somethings that need to be fixed but the same could be said on my guardian and necro. Engineer is my favorite class and it actually takes some innovated thinking to kill your foes be it pvp, pve or wvw. Learning to predetermine where your foe is going to be makes a huge difference. Also, kite, kite, kite….I die a lot sure, but thats part of learning. Learn to dodge rather than auto evade. I enjoy the thief, its fun, but so much of the work is taken out of it by all the auto evades. Rather than complaining about a class that doesn’t suit you, try learning it and mastering it. I’ve been playing an engineer since bwe3 and love the class.

Just Do Not make an engineer whoever started playing the game and sees this. Engi is completely useless 1 vs 1 and in groups besides the useless damage engi has no survivability unless you exchage 90% damage wich then leaves you harmless

nakoda.4213:

Spaceghost.3485:

or do more dmg than a Catholic School girl on Sunday on her way to church.

you ever met a pastor’s daughter on a sunday? she will school you in things you’ve only theorybated about.

don’t diss divine power.

HEHE my experience is that the catholic school kids are often the least divine of them all.

I’d say the engi prolly is as screwed in the damage department as a pig in a sausage factory on double meat tuesday.

Rezzet.3614:

Just Do Not make an engineer whoever started playing the game and sees this. Engi is completely useless 1 vs 1 and in groups besides the useless damage engi has no survivability unless you exchage 90% damage wich then leaves you harmless

So when I get jumped when I’m soloing flags and caravans and beat them, it’s all my imagination? Sure I get beat here and there but it’s not like those fights are quick, they take a while and I’m usually running around with dual pistols(to take down caravans and flags quicker).

Dear Killer Parakeet.9435
Your mentality is what kills forums, pls do turn on the gas and light a cigar, to fix this problem.
Besides the obvious bad taste of yours.
You can not understand what does it mean to understand, what your class is capable off, in the SAME conditions. When ou can simply destroy someone with a press of q, or you need to run araund, dodge, spam 4-5 skills contantly in the perfect order, without any unlucky interupt or adittional foes…there is a differeance. And not in skill.

BTW why you all say Mesmer is good? (they complain the most) Guardian-Thief-Warr ok i admit it they are finy…what is your opinion on Eles trough?

Nekroseth.5186:

*BTW why you all say Mesmer is good? (they complain the most)

They really do complain a lot.

But their class and class design is one of the most solid and interesting in the game. There is a ton of depth to that class both in the utility and damage output sides. And unlike Thieves, they’re doing amazing stuff in WvW without abusing culling.

Nekroseth.5186:

what is your opinion on Eles trough?*

Ele’s are interesting. They can fill a ton of different roles in the party but their weapon decision before the fight really determines their playstyle. There is a lot of space in the class to carve out rotations you like and despite complaints there actually are a ton of really interesting and viable builds (people say you MUST take 30 arcane or 30 water, but that’s really not true and PvE heros routinely do 30/0/30/0/10), but it’s also a hard class to understand with tons of fiddly trait combinations.

[/quote]Why am I not rerolling? Because I get attached to my characters. My engineer has 100% world completion… don’t want to do that again. I’m fully geared (minus ascended) with multiple sets. I can’t stand leveling and don’t ever want to level another character again in this game. I don’t like playing unfinished characters. Bottom line… I made my bed. I know there are many people that don’t mind leveling new characters. I’m just not one of them. [/quote]

so OP’s complaint about the class seems to be not so much the class sucks but more like its not his playing style and now he is too lazy to do another character. i played every class til lvl 30 to get a decent feel of each one and engineer was my last and now engineer is my favorite class. i wish i wouldnt have waited to make him should have been first. i understand there are “bugs” (more people complaining that something doesnt do what they want rather than it actually being the game bugging) but i can deal with them. engineer was the last class the devs made and put in the game so obv we will be last but like every other MMO eventually we are finally gonna get fixed then everyone else will say how engys are OP and need to be nerfed and blah blah blah. either im playing mine and prolly not playing anything else. hell i make a second one just to have a charr and a norn.

Hmm! Good to see your opinion Dave! Thank you!
Trough i admit, i did found Mesmer interesting
(exspecially after gw1, it had a lot new things to offer),
but found it to be, to centered araund damage. It felt as it is all it can do.
(excluding the mantra healer build)
Trough i am only 36 with her yet. Damage felt a bit low actually.

I am considering my lv 50 ele isntead. Trough i dont like the design of spells, the roles and the combat feels a bit more fun then most of classes.
I also consider Ranger now. Trough i would LOVE rifle ranger instead of warrior or engineer. Maybe even a Rifled Thief. But Rangers have a lot of cool weapons like, Gs.
But not sure if it is boring as it seems. (like the tipical hunter in wow…it does feel like so on low lv) Also not sure if Rangers are another underdog class….are they?

Nekroseth.5186:

but found it to be, to centered araund damage. It felt as it is all it can do.
(excluding the mantra healer build)
Trough i am only 36 with her yet. Damage felt a bit low actually.

Ultimately, every class is about damage.

They offer a lot of group buffs, and stealth, and do area denial, and multiple ways to reflect projectiles. They also have fairly good defense via invulnerability.

It does take some time to understand them, and pre-level 40 it’s tough to make a good burst build.

Nekroseth.5186:

I am considering my lv 50 ele isntead. Trough i dont like the design of spells, the roles and the combat feels a bit more fun then most of classes.

Do you keep typing “trough” when you mean “though?” Just wondering.

But yes, Elementalists feel like you’re flying a jet. If you have a staff, it’s like you’re a high-altitude bomber. If you’ve got a dagger (in either hand) you feel like a fighter jet. It’s fun.

Nekroseth.5186:

Also not sure if Rangers are another underdog class….are they?

They are not as bad off as Engineers, but do have some issues. They are doing pretty well in the sPvP meta, though. I think their PvE players are the most verbal. Managing a pet means working with the (sometimes substandard) AI and understanding how pets are rotated in and out, managing their health and sometimes calling them back. It’s not easy.

Yes whell sory, i did mean though. Thank you for pointing it out, i actually didnt learn English, at all. Just read a lot of A.A. Poe and rpg rulebooks.

Thank you for the enlightment, on the topic of this 3 class. I am still unsure whitch one to roll.
But Ranger seems to be a good pick, mostly based on, how cool the weapon skins are. (not to mention they have a decent number of them) Sad it has no rifle. Predator looks way better then kudzu or dreamer.
Trough i did seen some dual sword mesmers with extremely spectacular gear to.

Thank you again, and i do hope in the Jan-Feb patches i can see a bit more clearly, and decide on a main class alredy. (i dont even play my lv 80 thief).

jrdnjms.8703:

so OP’s complaint about the class seems to be not so much the class sucks but more like its not his playing style and now he is too lazy to do another character.

Ummmm…

No.

The engineer IS my play style, only the tools the profession gets are either substandard, bugged, or over-n-erfed.

Since making this thread I finished my thief, have it geared out with 3 full sets of exotic gear and weapons, experimenting with weapon sets.

Knowing the engineer profession as well as I do makes engineers easy kills as I can spot what they are able to do and counter accordingly.

That said I built my engineer to counter thieves, but the truth of the matter is that an average player on a thief can give fits to the exemplary player on an engineer. Hence the reason for this thread.

I advise you to re-read the original post..

Guys engineers just need their skills fixed but imo they are really good already PVE and PVP, for you guys who think that engineers are not good just have the wrong builds or not using them right and dont tell me you are using them right or have the right build. I am enjoying the engineer so much, in clashes in wvw i rain hell aoe and get lotsa kills, i even win against lvl 80 thieves 1 vs 1 glass cannon or whatever, i even win 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 3 sometimes with my engi. In Pve they are also fun like in instances i find it fun that i can save and res my teammates using the invi skills or stability that engis have. They just have to fix some stuff. [lvl 80 engi from (PRO) Protectorate of Aspenwood]

That is strange on my other classes I don’t NEED to play RIGHT to be on par, also playing RIGHT is subjective I want to use what I want to use and still be viable to me THAT is what my playing right is . sadly that can’t happen for engineer as much as other classes.

Engineer has far less viable builds now, than at release, that’s the bottom line. The class is being mismanaged, and the dev team appear to lack vision focus and clarity about what this class can do now and what it should be able to do in the future.

Kalan.9705:

and the dev team appear to lack vision focus and clarity about what this class can do now and what it should be able to do in the future.

This is my big problem with the class. You cannot define a successful class as, “Like everyone else, but worse!”

Engineers should be like Batman, not Robin. A series of hot-swappable blow-par features does not a cohesive and fun class design make.

MrSilver.5269:

jrdnjms.8703:

so OP’s complaint about the class seems to be not so much the class sucks but more like its not his playing style and now he is too lazy to do another character.

Ummmm…

No.

The engineer IS my play style, only the tools the profession gets are either substandard, bugged, or over-n-erfed.

Since making this thread I finished my thief, have it geared out with 3 full sets of exotic gear and weapons, experimenting with weapon sets.

Knowing the engineer profession as well as I do makes engineers easy kills as I can spot what they are able to do and counter accordingly.

That said I built my engineer to counter thieves, but the truth of the matter is that an average player on a thief can give fits to the exemplary player on an engineer. Hence the reason for this thread.

I advise you to re-read the original post..

I have only played my thief to level 14 so I can not speak too much on that. I am however a lvl 80 engie with multiple exotics sets as well. I almost always wear my full beserker with the flame runes, to increase burning dmg and damage against burning targets. My traits are in 30 firearms, 30 elixirs, and 10 in the first one =) I run with the flame thrower kit and rifle off hand. Using this as a skeleton I’ve not died to a thief yet. I was downed once by a good d/p thief since I didn’t have condition removal up. Aside from that I really enjoy the class and what it has to offer. Maybe it’s because my build is one of the viable few, but I have to say I disagree with engineer being bad. I love it =) Flame on!

Shea.3572:

I have only played my thief to level 14 so I can not speak too much on that. I am however a lvl 80 engie with multiple exotics sets as well. I almost always wear my full beserker with the flame runes, to increase burning dmg and damage against burning targets. My traits are in 30 firearms, 30 elixirs, and 10 in the first one =) I run with the flame thrower kit and rifle off hand. Using this as a skeleton I’ve not died to a thief yet. I was downed once by a good d/p thief since I didn’t have condition removal up. Aside from that I really enjoy the class and what it has to offer. Maybe it’s because my build is one of the viable few, but I have to say I disagree with engineer being bad. I love it =) Flame on!

Full berserker engineers may be the easiest thing in the entire game to kill for a thief. How many HPs do you have? 17K?

Steal/C&D/BS dead.

It is seriously that easy.

What server do you play on?

I don’t know. If I find a lone engineer I can usually kill him pretty easy. Sometimes I run into a really good player though. Then it’s a tough fight. But when they’re that much better than me, I shouldn’t be winning as much as I do.

Blah blah blah thieves warriors and mesmer pww Engineer.
I kill them.
Blah blah blah engineer sucks at every role.
I keep parties alive and good conditions on foes.
Blah blah blah Engineer only wins if foes are noobs.
I am a noob. I win.

It never freaking stops. You could be the best Engineer in the world and win at everything forever and kitten easymode chumps will STILL say the class sucks just because they can’t handle it.

Lovely combo for engineer.
Magnetic pull+prybar+overcharged shot+net shot+jumpshot+net attack+rocket kick.
And if you’re a high damage engineer then glass cannons are screwed and even bunkers will start to worry. Not to mention you can just plonk down a net turret for 3 more nets and keep hitting. Or deliver a blunderbuss.

[quote=1190338;MrSilver.5269Full berserker engineers may be the easiest thing in the entire game to kill for a thief. How many HPs do you have? 17K?

Steal/C&D/BS dead.

It is seriously that easy.

What server do you play on?

[/quote]

I do not have too many hit points true, but I don’t get hit. I use the the following to protect me from their bursts:

1.) Dodge Rolls
2.) #3 Flame Thrower Knockback
3.) #5 Flame Thrower AoE Blind
4.) #2 Rifle Root
5.) #4 Rifle Knockback
6.) Elixir S
7.) Elite Take Root (Silvari Racial)

If I do get hit hard I have 25% health drink Elixir S and become invul. With all the options avail to me I am able to cycle through them and use them as the situation demands. Meanwhile my flame thrower basic attack does 2-4k damage (not including the burning) The flame blast if I Hit with roll and blast does about 3-5k itself. If I’m caught with ALL of my cooldowns popped in an “ohh kitten” situation. I will go down, but I have many options to help keep me alive. It’s a balance between doing good damage, without having to target, with canceling out their big moves.

Edit: I play on SBI

@Oxtar

Everybody doesn’t have to agree. But everybody has to live with the fact that people disagree with them and think they’re wrong. So we may as well all be civil while we disagree.

I’ve been playing since beta and seen the engineers many incarnations. I think I can safely say, they’re as weak as I’ve ever seen them. But if you disagree, please feel free to state your opinion and reasoning. But please don’t try and pick fights just because people don’t see things your way. I’m not going to punish anybody for thinking that the engineer is in good shape.

Oxstar.7643:

Lovely combo for engineer.
Magnetic pull+prybar+overcharged shot+net shot+jumpshot+net attack+rocket kick.
And if you’re a high damage engineer then glass cannons are screwed and even bunkers will start to worry. Not to mention you can just plonk down a net turret for 3 more nets and keep hitting. Or deliver a blunderbuss.

This combo will not make a bunker worry… lol.

The only decent damage from that combo is prybar and blunderbuss, the rest do pretty bad damage and a bunker probably wouldn’t even notice their health bar drop.

It would probably kill a glass cannon though if they gave you the 10s you needed to pull this combo off.

Looks cool though I’ll give it that.

nofo.8469:

Oxstar.7643:

Lovely combo for engineer.
Magnetic pull+prybar+overcharged shot+net shot+jumpshot+net attack+rocket kick.
And if you’re a high damage engineer then glass cannons are screwed and even bunkers will start to worry. Not to mention you can just plonk down a net turret for 3 more nets and keep hitting. Or deliver a blunderbuss.

This combo will not make a bunker worry… lol.

The only decent damage from that combo is prybar and blunderbuss, the rest do pretty bad damage and a bunker probably wouldn’t even notice their health bar drop.

It would probably kill a glass cannon though if they gave you the 10s you needed to pull this combo off.

Looks cool though I’ll give it that.

Well, since they are constantly on their kitten or netted up I think the time is there lol.
As for bunkers, armor does zero vs conditions – Funny fact, confusion works through “Endure pain” ^^

My reasoning is simple.
I have won both 1-1 and group fight vs pretty much every class on multple occasions.
I honestly feel like people underestimate Engineers way too much and this largely contributes to their downfall.
Guardians are predictable as all heck.
So are warriors.
Thieves is a simple net matter.
Eles run when they get low on hp, well, bon voyage.
Mesmers go down fast if you stay on the real one and know how to counter clones.
Rangers get a taste of their own reflected medicine, or plain pull.
Necromancers are also a squishy pull and squish things, though that death shroud is annoying.

I’d say Engineer is a class for those with good situational awerness. It’s not as much a pick up and play as the rest but higher learning curve means you’ll only get more dangerous.

My complaints have all been pve which is the bulk of the complaints people will see. There isn’t an argument that engis can’t perform in pvp there is a very valid one that engis cannot perform like the other classes in pve which is largely due to them “balancing” pvp. so they have alot of rebuffing to do on the pve side to make this class viable again starting with the scaling including the healing scaling which almost none of the skills for healing scale with +healing gear and then there are the weapons as well.

tigirius.9014:

My complaints have all been pve which is the bulk of the complaints people will see. There isn’t an argument that engis can’t perform in pvp there is a very valid one that engis cannot perform like the other classes in pve which is largely due to them “balancing” pvp. so they have alot of rebuffing to do on the pve side to make this class viable again starting with the scaling including the healing scaling which almost none of the skills for healing scale with +healing gear and then there are the weapons as well.

Idk man I feel that I’m doing well enough being the prime healer for every team I’m in, while STILL dishing out meaningful stuff like anti-conditions, cc, conditions, buffs – Also since Engineer requires good situational awerness to deliver, Engys are usually fast at reacting to stuff like downed party members etc. I imagine warriors have much more players who just wanna “Hit things”.

Whats the point of comparing a good engi vs bad 5-signet wariors in PvE?

This is the worst logic possible.

Lets compare engi to a pro support guardian, who can heal, tank, give lots of buffs to the team and still deal dps like a berserker engi.
Lets compare engi to a pro mesmer, who can help the party melt bosses with quickness, while giving everyone aegis, chaos armor and tanking with clones.
Lets compare engi with pro warrior, who uses heal-on-crit food with full zerker gear to solo arah.

Please, remove your pink glasses. There’s no place for engi in high-end PvE parties. Well, unless you want to leach, while contributing far less than everyone else. And no, low-skill parties don’t count.

Throughout the history of MMOs there have been various classes/races/builds which are comparitively less powerful or useful than their counterparts. i.e. Balancing is hard. These lesser constructs always have their few vocal supporters that argue that ‘everything is ok’ or ‘we are actually overpowered’.

In some cases these supposedly lesser classes were actually ‘ok’ in the scheme of the greater game and a place was found for them. Of course, if the developers acknowledged the deficiency and changed them in the power structure these advocates weren’t heard from again on the topic. The debate will always exist but these threads provide a good base.

What I have found however is that when a number of players display their frustration about their place in the game and they provide analysis concerning the relative power or usefulness of the class over the general population their argument is not refuted by a personal experience. “Well I can do this with my engy..” or “I can kill everyone..” are not substantial arguments. While personal experience is valid it isn’t a way to provide analysis of the class for a general population.

Some might say that the class is meant for the experienced, dedicated or well financed player. In that case, make your point known, as it may be a valid one, but it isn’t what the OP was arguing at all. The ‘Learn to play’ argument can be applied to every class so essentially what you are saying is that the engineer requires more work and dedication to achieve base results. Again, a poor argument concerning the OP’s premise.

Mostly what these class discussions bring on that count is people showing up to say “Look what I can do..” without providing any relevant reasoning. Debate the relative power or place in the class structure of the engineer for the general population or declare your point that it is a ‘learn to play’ issue for an ‘advanced’ class.

With the current state of condition removal, grenades being one of the only aimed skills in the entire game, their many bugs, the ease with which turrets can be killed by a single AoE and the fact that everything else an engineer can do somebody else can do better you will rarely see them outside of PUGs. Very very few tPvP teams use an engineer. These are the realities. I think that speaks for itself.

In my opinion (which is not the same as fact) engineers are a poorly designed, buggy profession with a few neat tricks and a fundamentally enjoyable though largely ineffective playing style. And as Whelm said, any decent experienced player can take an engineer up against players who aren’t experienced and do passably well. That’s not the issue. But when the best tPvP players in GW2 choose not to use the profession at a highly competitive level, that says more than a few WvW victories ever could.

mifbifgiggle.6713:

Rezzet.3614:

Just Do Not make an engineer whoever started playing the game and sees this. Engi is completely useless 1 vs 1 and in groups besides the useless damage engi has no survivability unless you exchage 90% damage wich then leaves you harmless

^has no idea how to play as an engi.

You may want to recalibrate the sarcastic-o-gauge with the cross-magneto-troll detection adapter in your humour-radar. I think you misinterpreted the input data.

Oxstar.7643:

nofo.8469:

Oxstar.7643:

Lovely combo for engineer.
Magnetic pull+prybar+overcharged shot+net shot+jumpshot+net attack+rocket kick.
And if you’re a high damage engineer then glass cannons are screwed and even bunkers will start to worry. Not to mention you can just plonk down a net turret for 3 more nets and keep hitting. Or deliver a blunderbuss.

This combo will not make a bunker worry… lol.

The only decent damage from that combo is prybar and blunderbuss, the rest do pretty bad damage and a bunker probably wouldn’t even notice their health bar drop.

It would probably kill a glass cannon though if they gave you the 10s you needed to pull this combo off.

Looks cool though I’ll give it that.

Well, since they are constantly on their kitten or netted up I think the time is there lol.
As for bunkers, armor does zero vs conditions – Funny fact, confusion works through “Endure pain” ^^

Fun fact, if you tried this on a bunker guardian he could stand still and it would take you a minute+ to kill him. If you aren’t glass cannon you probably wouldn’t kill him. Ever. Even if you were it would take you awhile.

Relying on confusion to kill people works in WvW because your opponents tend to be… bad.

Try killing a competent bunker with this combo though, they can outheal your DPS even if you don’t focus on knocking them around like a pingpong ball (when stability is down)

Whelm.9072:

Throughout the history of MMOs there have been various classes/races/builds which are comparitively less powerful or useful than their counterparts. i.e. Balancing is hard. These lesser constructs always have their few vocal supporters that argue that ‘everything is ok’ or ‘we are actually overpowered’.

In some cases these supposedly lesser classes were actually ‘ok’ in the scheme of the greater game and a place was found for them. Of course, if the developers acknowledged the deficiency and changed them in the power structure these advocates weren’t heard from again on the topic. The debate will always exist but these threads provide a good base.

What I have found however is that when a number of players display their frustration about their place in the game and they provide analysis concerning the relative power or usefulness of the class over the general population their argument is not refuted by a personal experience. “Well I can do this with my engy..” or “I can kill everyone..” are not substantial arguments. While personal experience is valid it isn’t a way to provide analysis of the class for a general population.

Some might say that the class is meant for the experienced, dedicated or well financed player. In that case, make your point known, as it may be a valid one, but it isn’t what the OP was arguing at all. The ‘Learn to play’ argument can be applied to every class so essentially what you are saying is that the engineer requires more work and dedication to achieve base results. Again, a poor argument concerning the OP’s premise.

Mostly what these class discussions bring on that count is people showing up to say “Look what I can do..” without providing any relevant reasoning. Debate the relative power or place in the class structure of the engineer for the general population or declare your point that it is a ‘learn to play’ issue for an ‘advanced’ class.

Such a great post. Well written and spot on.

The point of this thread wasn’t to claim that engineers can’t be successful, it was to alert new players to the fact that they are at the low end of the power spectrum as compared to other classes.

Thanks for you’re opinion OP, but I play video games to have fun. I have fun playing my engineer more than any other class I’ve played. Therefore, despite your advice, I will continue to play my engineer.

I won’t get angry at the developers if somewhere down the line I stop having fun on my engineer. I will just move on. Either to another class or another game.

One last final note. The comparison of ease in winning as a thief compared to an engineer is being used over and over in this thread. Here’s the reality: It’s easier as a thief compared to every other class in this game — not just engineers. But that’s the way it is in just about every MMO that has a stealth class and PvP. Because being able to pick your fights and disengage easily if you made the wrong choice is an absoIute massive advantage. I wont list all the MMOs I’ve played, but it’s been a lot. And in that time I’ve never seen a MMO where their stealth class didn’t hold the same level of ease in PvP over all the other classes due to that advantage.

It’s not a weakness of the engineer class. It’s the power of stealth.

MrSilver.5269:

Whelm.9072:

Throughout the history of MMOs there have been various classes/races/builds which are comparitively less powerful or useful than their counterparts. i.e. Balancing is hard. These lesser constructs always have their few vocal supporters that argue that ‘everything is ok’ or ‘we are actually overpowered’.

In some cases these supposedly lesser classes were actually ‘ok’ in the scheme of the greater game and a place was found for them. Of course, if the developers acknowledged the deficiency and changed them in the power structure these advocates weren’t heard from again on the topic. The debate will always exist but these threads provide a good base.

What I have found however is that when a number of players display their frustration about their place in the game and they provide analysis concerning the relative power or usefulness of the class over the general population their argument is not refuted by a personal experience. “Well I can do this with my engy..” or “I can kill everyone..” are not substantial arguments. While personal experience is valid it isn’t a way to provide analysis of the class for a general population.

Some might say that the class is meant for the experienced, dedicated or well financed player. In that case, make your point known, as it may be a valid one, but it isn’t what the OP was arguing at all. The ‘Learn to play’ argument can be applied to every class so essentially what you are saying is that the engineer requires more work and dedication to achieve base results. Again, a poor argument concerning the OP’s premise.

Mostly what these class discussions bring on that count is people showing up to say “Look what I can do..” without providing any relevant reasoning. Debate the relative power or place in the class structure of the engineer for the general population or declare your point that it is a ‘learn to play’ issue for an ‘advanced’ class.

Such a great post. Well written and spot on.

The point of this thread wasn’t to claim that engineers can’t be successful, it was to alert new players to the fact that they are at the low end of the power spectrum as compared to other classes.

Exactly, and these logical fallacy arguments are tiresome. No engineer is completely broken but it is about 60% broken, especially so for pve. It cannot do the things other classes do enjoy without worry, it is not a complete class because there were many things that do not make it as versatile as they claim this class is that should have been put in like the ability to switch kits without taking up valuable utility skill space. (something ele’s do without issue) it does not provide enough damage output even with the superior sigil of fire or superior sigil of air to warrant a 30% drop or drop of any kind across the board on kits damage output which were weak to begin with (PVE) and the issues that balancing pvp on this class have caused should be fixed before anything (lack of initial damage when applying a condition, condition damage a completely different score per tick on this class as compared even to it’s sister classes thief and ranger).

All we’re asking for is that land combat be restored to the rightful numbers this class should have and that anyone looking to play this class should beware until they fix it.

The OP is right, but in the wrong ways. I’ve been playing Engineer since BWE2.

The Engineer is, unquestionably, under-powered in sPvP and WvW against other professions.

However, that doesn’t mean the Engineer isn’t fun. It provides enough complexity and variance to be very rewarding in its own right. The reward is not from performance, rather from sheer play-style and versatility the Engineer provides. That’s the very reason I keep coming back to the Engineer even after mastering other professions.

In PvE the Engineer is extremely rewarding and I highly encourage it. In WvW you are best suited to be on the walls throwing grenades, or in the back lines, and not out in the open.

In sPvP you really only have bunker.

Gilgamesh.2561:

The OP is right, but in the wrong ways. I’ve been playing Engineer since BWE2.

The Engineer is, unquestionably, under-powered in sPvP and WvW against other professions.

However, that doesn’t mean the Engineer isn’t fun.

I never said I didn’t enjoy my engineer, or that it wasn’t fun. To the contrary, I said that I continue to play my engineer despite its inherent flaws, and that I am able play successfully despite the deficiencies.

That said, since I wrote my original post I finished my thief, got three different sets of exotic gear and weapons, and have have been experimenting with different thief builds. Since I did that I have only gone back to my engineer a couple of times and played about 200 hours on the thief. When I get back on my engineer I can’t help but think how lacking it is in comparison, and usually log off after about ten minutes. I also have a lowbie elementalist and a mesmer that I started. Even at lower levels the elementalist feels so much more intuitive and finished than the engineer. It really isn’t even close.

Point being, I never said that you shouldn’t roll an engineer if you don’t mind playing an unfinished, underperforming class. If that is your cup of tea, go for it. I know there are many people that can’t help but play the underdog class, as that IS their playstyle.

I created the thread to warn people that are new to the game that are not in the “I prefer to play the underdog” camp, and would rather not be handcuffed at end-game after putting in the hours only to find out that they are near the bottom of the barrel as compared to the other more polished professions.

Cheers!

Another grenade n-erf incoming.

http://dulfy.net/2013/01/17/gw2-dev-livestream-jan-17-transcript/

AoE abilities balancing
-One of the issues brought up a lot in WvW./sPvP is AoE (Area of Effect). We feel like they are too strong at the moment and a lot of people in WvW are gaming the system using AoEs.
-For people that don’t know – max targets for siege weapons is 50 while max targets for AoE is 5.
-Reducing AoE effectiveness to bring them in line with the single target damage skills.
-Major update coming to all the AoE skills – make classes that are good at single target damage stand out a bit more.
-Same thing with dungeons – right now if you have a lot of AoE you can past encounters by just spamming AoE which is not what we want.

Notice: “make classes that are good at single target damage stand out a bit more.”

Looks like thieves and warriors just got another indirect buff through the n-erf of AoE dependent classes, i.e., engineer.

MrSilver.5269:

Another grenade n-erf incoming.

http://dulfy.net/2013/01/17/gw2-dev-livestream-jan-17-transcript/

AoE abilities balancing
-One of the issues brought up a lot in WvW./sPvP is AoE (Area of Effect). We feel like they are too strong at the moment and a lot of people in WvW are gaming the system using AoEs.
-For people that don’t know – max targets for siege weapons is 50 while max targets for AoE is 5.
-Reducing AoE effectiveness to bring them in line with the single target damage skills.
-Major update coming to all the AoE skills – make classes that are good at single target damage stand out a bit more.
-Same thing with dungeons – right now if you have a lot of AoE you can past encounters by just spamming AoE which is not what we want.

Notice: “make classes that are good at single target damage stand out a bit more.”

Looks like thieves and warriors just got another indirect buff through the n-erf of AoE dependent classes, i.e., engineer.

Yep completely agree, both with the OP and this guy. Pretty much crapped on the engineer with this one let’s see what we have that is single target only. Oh YEAH rifles! I forgot. well we’re okay then. :/ This game soooooooooo needs a PTR it’s not even funny.

I’m hopeful that the Devs saying that they will look at AOE on a weapon by weapon/skill by skill basis means that when they get to the engineer they won’t fail to note that they’ve already “toned down” grenades, that bombs don’t offer a better return on opportunity cost than single target damage due to the melee range, and delay. That Flamethrower… wait, does “Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss…” count as AOE?

Prototype.3168:

I’m hopeful that the Devs saying that they will look at AOE on a weapon by weapon/skill by skill basis means that when they get to the engineer they won’t fail to note that they’ve already “toned down” grenades, that bombs don’t offer a better return on opportunity cost than single target damage due to the melee range, and delay. That Flamethrower… wait, does “Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss…” count as AOE?

Don’t kid yourself.

They’re 3 for 3 when it comes to nerfing Engineers in major patches.

Drop trou, lube up and bend over.

Well, why not go p/p and build for condition damage. Would that work?

Cruces.3280:

Well, why not go p/p and build for condition damage. Would that work?

normally yes , but P/P DOES technically have SOME aoe , the flame skill is a cone aoe , the poison shots are also in a sense a cone aoe (as in bullets can sometimes hit a target just behind the designated target) , stick glue aoe , auto attack is a very small aoe that the bullets explode and do a bleed i believe? and the other skill that consuses targets is a chain aoe , so……no…..aoes all over save for rifle. so long engineer , time for the age of Thief Wars to begin ;-D. (sry havent played my engineer in awhile to remember all the skill names XD)

Whelm.9072:

Some might say that the class is meant for the … well financed player. In that case, make your point known, as it may be a valid one

MrSilver.5269:

Such a great post. Well written and spot on.

tigirius.9014:

Exactly, and these logical fallacy arguments are tiresome.

UHMMMM, GUYS? So… Are we apart of the 99% or…?

MrSilver.5269:

I never said I didn’t enjoy my engineer, or that it wasn’t fun. To the contrary, I said that I continue to play my engineer despite its inherent flaws, and that I am able play successfully despite the deficiencies.

Point being, I never said that you shouldn’t roll an engineer if you don’t mind playing an unfinished, underperforming class.

Well actually the title of this thread is: Don’t roll an engineer. So in fact you did say don’t roll one. And I don’t see how in one sentence you can say you’re able to play successfully and then say it’s underperforming in another. It’s a bit contradictory is it not?

It really sounds to me like it’s more of a play style issue perhaps? You mention an elementalist feeling more intuitive. I messed around with my low level elementalist this weekend and didn’t like it at all. But I don’t think that’s a fault of the class… I think it just doesn’t suit my play style. Perhaps that’s the case with the engineer?

P-O-W-E-R I-S L-A-C-K-I-N-G I-N T-H-I-S C-L kitten (Compared to melee weapons, very different—compared to other classes wielding ranged weapons, also different not as dramatic). I really think that is all the op is saying. Can this end? honestly. I thought it was going to end on page 4 but it kept going. Somehow.

Yeh, the engineer is lots of fun but… lacking.
But as I see it people are overdoing it. We may be lacking but I never felt completely and utterly useless in any situation I´ve yet encountered.
And a big plus for this profession is still the fun (as lots of people have mentioned before)
I could never imagine playing a warrior… I don´t know, warrior feels just like … winning a race without racing. It´s boring.
So if OP-ness and fun are contradicting in this game… Heck, I´d throw OP-ness overboard and play to have fun….

Remember that ninja gai-me from way back when on that little box you plugged in to your tv? kitten was that game hard. The devs definitely nerfed the hero before launch. It was seriously no fun at all…

Engineer is the Witch Doctor (from D3) of Guild Wars.

A lot of great ideas thrown into a bag, then mercilessly beaten with a baseball bat until only a bloody, mangled pulp of “What Could Have Been” remains.

Hopefully fixing Engineers doesn’t take removing the lead dev like it did with Diablo3 and Witch Doctors.

Xae.7204:

Engineer is the Witch Doctor (from D3) of Guild Wars.

A lot of great ideas thrown into a bag, then mercilessly beaten with a baseball bat until only a bloody, mangled pulp of “What Could Have Been” remains.

Hopefully fixing Engineers doesn’t take removing the lead dev like it did with Diablo3 and Witch Doctors.

I love this description.

I still like eng and am leveling one, but this is funny to me.