Guild Wars 2

Engi is no longer allowed to use any healing skill to survive comparing to others.

-Too long Cast Time.

-Not really convenient especially for the healing gyro.

-Easy to interrupt espacially for the most basic beginner thief.

It is really not the capability of the engi to survive which has been balanced, it is just has been broken.

Shall we delete our engi o quit the game for another 6 months till it is back to normal and another 6 if it is not ?!!

@Dev : Do the right things !!!!

Necro’s consume conditions would like to have a word with you. Seriously, the crying going on is ridiculous. Hammer wasn’t touched at all with the nerf bat and you seriously think that a heal with a 3/4 sec cast time has suddenly become terrible and now scrapper is dead? Last I checked, scrappers have a thing called stability that they have access to, make use of it if you have -that- much trouble getting your heal off.

Hahaha this is funny.

You mean necro the 6 lives cat ?

CutesySylveon.8290:

Hammer wasn’t touched at all with the nerf bat

I suggest you read the patch notes again.

•Rocket Charge: This skill now executes two leaps instead of three.

Thats a big drop in CC (leaping in Lightning Field), Healing (leaping in Water Field), Retaliation (leaping in Light Field for Light Aura)

So yeah keep saying Hammer wasn’t touched at all…

woah woah woah.. start from the begining op. take a deep breath.. INNNNNNnnnnn and OOOOooouuuttt.. Ok now explain to daddy. What the hell are you talking about?

Ohitei.8043:

Engi is no longer allowed to use any healing skill to survive comparing to others.

-Too long Cast Time.

It blows my mind that for close to a year I was able to use Elixir H with a full one second cast speed against thieves and mesmers and yet people are crying that the Healing Turret is useless with a .75 cast speed activation.

There is, admittedly, a lot more CC flying around now versus what there was pre-HoT when P/P HGH was strong, but the Scrapper affords you so much stability between Final Salvo and Perfectly Weighted (never mind still having Toss Elixir B as well) that getting your healing skill consistently interrupted shouldn’t be blamed on “basic beginner” thieves but your own play.

Even when Final Salvo wasn’t working on patch day, I messed with a Mender amulet setup with Adaptive Armor outlasting most 1v1 encounters and several 1v2 encounters. The only class I couldn’t really stand up to was Revenant, but that’s less an issue of our nerfs and more an issue of Assassin’s Annihilation dealing waaaaay more than it’s supposed to (like 2K+ vs. the ~300 it’s supposed to do).

With Final Salvo back into the mix it’s really tough to argue that Scrapper isn’t still one of the better classes in the bruiser role—and plenty survivable even with the new damage amulets. And with Slick Shoes getting nerfed, Blast Gyro is arguably a stronger replacement.

Okay, yes, I forgot about that part. But omg one less leap finisher… awesome, it should only have one finisher to begin with, and correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the AA get buffed? So the loss of that one finisher doesn’t really concern me when hammer is still way out of line.

I’m begining to think Scrappers should prepare themselves for even more nerfs…

Ardid.7203:

I’m begining to think Scrappers should prepare themselves for even more nerfs…

Honestly Blast Gyro with Mender’s amulet is pretty insane.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Ardid.7203:

I’m begining to think Scrappers should prepare themselves for even more nerfs…

Honestly Blast Gyro with Mender’s amulet is pretty insane.

Do you mean Medic Gyro or is there an interaction with Blast Gyro I dont know about?

CutesySylveon.8290:

Okay, yes, I forgot about that part. But omg one less leap finisher… awesome, it should only have one finisher to begin with, and correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the AA get buffed? So the loss of that one finisher doesn’t really concern me when hammer is still way out of line.

I see what kind of player you are, even if the decision is not for you to make just ask Devs to delete Engi it will be more efficient to delight your will. ^^

Have a good day my dear.

Please stop being such a crybaby. I see scrappers all the time that are just as much of a pain to kill as before. You have plenty of behind saving passives, plenty of behind saving utility, hammer does two dazing strikes inside of thunderclap which is a stun itself and a lighting field, stab on evading an attack (there you go. Evade then drop healing turret for clean use), reflects on a 6 sec CD, rocket charge is 12 with evade frames, a block that does damage and a lot more. If you’re having trouble surviving as a scrapper then the problem is YOU, my friend.

displacedTitan.6897:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Ardid.7203:

I’m begining to think Scrappers should prepare themselves for even more nerfs…

Honestly Blast Gyro with Mender’s amulet is pretty insane.

Do you mean Medic Gyro or is there an interaction with Blast Gyro I dont know about?

Final Salvo.

Not saying it’s meta or anything. In fact I think it’s complete overkill on the healing power, and the baseline toughness can be a bit rough against spike damage builds, especially in 1vX situations.

But if you really want to be tanky it’s an option.

0.25s longer cast time … ITS USELESS, LEAVE THE BURNING SHIP!!!

It’s balance, and it’s ok. They should do more changes like that, so that more counterplay overall is created.

… oh yea and split pvp and pve already kitten it.

The cast increase really screws up the anti-melee uses of the skill with accelerant packed turrets, which really sucks.

kittenhought i complained alot….

scrapper is awesome

finale salvo is/should be meta

i vote i make the build =)

best class ever!

op. I know its easy to feel attacked or belittled on a forum. but my love i gota be honest with ya and say engineer has never been stronger. You need to adjust your play style the options to dominate are there. Adapt and overcome. Your an engi for kittens sake! its what we do.

Sins.4782:

The cast increase really screws up the anti-melee uses of the skill with accelerant packed turrets, which really sucks.

Agreed, this is my biggest adjustment. Much more difficult to use it as a reaction type skill.

It’s a fine fix though, just something to adapt too. It makes the other heals more of an option. I share the sentiment that this type of balancing could be more frequent.

Scrapper still feels fine to me, playing static discharge with hammer and having no real issues surviving compared to pre patch. The main thing they achieved with this was to make sneak gyro and healing turret interruptable, which they needed to be for the sake of balance. Being able to wait for the elixir S trait proc then instantly stealth, heal, blast then leap three times through water fields was just stupid in a 1v1, I’m glad it has a little counterplay now.

Only what i hate on this update was nerfing rapid regn.
Wich was great and allowed you to use more build diversity i still say they shud have nerf elixir gun not rapid regn. Everything else was good

Xyonon.3987:

0.25s longer cast time … ITS USELESS, LEAVE THE BURNING SHIP!!!

It’s balance, and it’s ok. They should do more changes like that, so that more counterplay overall is created.

… oh yea and split pvp and pve already kitten it.

That extra 0.25s makes a huge difference. A skill with a 0.5 cast time can’t be interrupted. A skill with a 0.75s cast time can. That can make a big difference.

no we don’t need it. we would need some more viable build. the problem is that now , with all projectil reflection in meta , pistols and rifle are not that great in many fights. this is the real problem . Scrapper is till really strong and boring .

Yeah, I’m currently in Guatemala playing with insane lag. But I made a Scrapper build with Medic Gyro, Elixir Gun, Bulwark Gyro, Purge Gyro, and Sneak Gyro with Mender’s amulet and I haven’t had any issues at all surviving and doing damage. Also still use Healing turret on non-gyro builds and having no issues getting my heal off.

Healing Turret and Sneak Gyro buffs were needed.

Where is the buff to A.E.D making it instant?

Just to add my thoughts.
When I read the patch-notes and the first words were about Anet thinking about giving the scrapper a bit less sustain, I was like “okay. . .seems legit. . .annoying, but that is okay”.

But what I think now, aside from the leap-reduce and trait being reduced for heal via haste and superspeed, the nerf on the healinturret gives core-engineers an even more difficult time than they had already.

That is what really bugs me, since I try to play a lot of core engineer and develope some core engineer builds, although I own HoT. But now I almost permanently get interrupted by thiefes with pistol in PvP and have close to zero chance to get my heal through.

Not so much a problem for scrappers, but the original intention of taking down the scrappers sustain, led to core-engineers being in even more trouble now.

The buffs pistol got are “ok” in my eyes for 1 vs 1 kind of builds and players, but in teamfights I dont see the pistol being much of a valid pick without the piercing option you once had via firearms trait.

So yeah, for me it really is annoying now, trying to play core-engineer and facing even more trouble, since core engineer does not have as much access to stability as for example scrapper (okay via elixir B and juggernaut, okay okay, but you dont stay on flamethrower the entire game, unless you want to loose :P). That is making me pretty much sad. Gues I will have to change my playing style as well towards a more bursting/one-shot kind of build, but that isnt really “my” playing style. I always loved a supportive tanky kind of engineer for teamfights and I dont see that very much right now. That last thing is more a personal preference/problem though.

Here is a little weird thing I found out.

Use mender amulet and water runes. I’m not sure if it is a bug, but with 1050 healing my regen was 1500 over 4 sec, with 1200 it was 2500 over 4 sec.

Swiftness was 150 / sec, Superspeed 530 / sec, Turret was about 3300/3300. Elixir gun 1300 initial 400/sec, and mortar was about 1000 / sec if I remember right.

You are basically trading toughness for healing power.

Scrapper is still strong, but what about [every other engi build that doesn’t use scrapper tree]?
Engis are now more than ever forced to play scrapper to have any chance in this meta, why would you nerf a heal that has been there for ages and, even though it has always been strong, was not overpowered when looking at the engineers overall defensive capabilities.
Healing turret wasn’t the kittening problem, scrapper is.
Anet balancing at its best

The 0.25s increase is pretty noticable for some1 like me who picks his turret back up most of the time( it slows me down). It’s not a huge nerf but why dont they just nerf scrapper without touching core engi. Should I be afraid to lose “Self regulating defenses” next time they try to nerf scrappers survivability?

Seriously though, it’s a .25s increase. It’s the slightest nerf possible. At least they didn’t get rid of its ability to blast its own water field or something.

.5 was dumb. we dont need it back.

Blast gyro. Welcome back to your engi alt

Scrapper did need nerfed badly, but the increase in casting time on the Turret heal is too much.

In WvW there are too many interrupts that can prevent the heal with that activation time so I’d rather they reverted it and just increased the cooldown a bit instead, especially since we don’t enough Stability to waste just to make sure we get our heal off.

So now, if you want a fast casting heal, you HAVE to go Medic Gyro (and thus scrapper). They really need to bring one of the other two (not counting AED) healing skills cast time down. Both bandage self and Elixir H are 1 sec cast time, and now healing turret is .75 + overcharge + pickup…

It is only an issue for pvp, and it’s really not that bad. Of the two increased cast times, I think sneak gyro makes less sense. The other gyros insta activate, why does sneak have cast time?

basz.6129:

It is only an issue for pvp, and it’s really not that bad. Of the two increased cast times, I think sneak gyro makes less sense. The other gyros insta activate, why does sneak have cast time?

Agree with ya, Healing Turret cast time really isn’t a big issue, and was warranted. People just not use to carelessly using it. I think in time, nobody will care anymore.

As for Sneak Gyro, having the cast time added to it HAD to happen. People were just using it every time they got locked down in a bad situation, using it sorta like a stun break. now with the cast time, you can’t use it while stunned and it requires a bit more thought to use. I feal Sneak Gyro is FINALLY in a good spot and wouldn’t expect Anet to make any further changes to the skill.

Also, with the recent changes, we’ll have a lot less QQ directed at Scrappers.

basz.6129:

It is only an issue for pvp, and it’s really not that bad.

It’s an issue for WvW as well, especially when roaming. With the amount of Daredevils around right now there are too many interrupts to have to contend with.

If it’s an issue in 2/3rd of the game modes, it needs to be looked at.

New cast time is alright, They did however miss the perfect opportunity to rework some of the core engineer heals. Mainly Med Kit and AED.

AED still has such a long cast and a ridiculous 40s cooldown due to this the costs out weigh the benefits here entirely too much.

IMO Med Kit is a waste of code in its current iteration sorry .

This game could use more skill variety their is plenty of ways to introduce it but that’s a subject for another thread.

then use medic gyro.

Okay this “problem” has waaay bigger roots than most people assume… Let take a look:

Healing turret is a very reliable healing skill. It does everything a person needs: water field, low cooldown, removing conditions and allied healing. It is the core that is sustaining us. All the other healing skills can’t help us as much:
- AED: Huge cooldown and unrealiable.
- Med Kit: Med kit skills are increadibly clunky
- Elixir H: longer cast time, random boon and only 1 condition removed.
- Medic gyro: Dies easily, no condition removed.

Due to the fact that we have to work in kits in our builds to be effective, we lose a slot to important defensive skills. If we use gyro we will have a lack of condition clear.

Conclusion: I understand why they ‘nerfed’ healing turret. However they should have helped the other healing skills too. We’ve been stuck with healing turret for so long.

Here are some short suggestions for those who like:

- AED: Instant skill, to make it reactive (or maybe 1/4s). Also rework the Gadgeteer trait in order for it to be a bit better.
- Elixir H: Remove the random nature of the boons. Apply 6s of protection always.
- Throw Elixir H: Minor heal (1k?) on impact. + current effect.
- Medic Gyro: Don’t let it stop to ‘cast’ it’s healing effect. Increased survivability.
- Med kit: Tons of suggestion out here on the forum. Most easy ones? Make the skills ‘AoE Pylons’

IMO Anet could rather make other healing skills useful and viable instead of nerfing the only one that’s actually good.

Eh? Wasn’t or, isn’t scrapper like 1 of the most face role specs out there? How can you say scrapper is “dead” after some nerf’s which I admit not played scrapper but fought many since the patch and I have not noticed a kitten slight difference in both offence or defence.

The V.8759:

Okay this “problem” has waaay bigger roots than most people assume… Let take a look:

Healing turret is a very reliable healing skill. It does everything a person needs: water field, low cooldown, removing conditions and allied healing. It is the core that is sustaining us. All the other healing skills can’t help us as much:
- AED: Huge cooldown and unrealiable.
- Med Kit: Med kit skills are increadibly clunky
- Elixir H: longer cast time, random boon and only 1 condition removed.
- Medic gyro: Dies easily, no condition removed.

Due to the fact that we have to work in kits in our builds to be effective, we lose a slot to important defensive skills. If we use gyro we will have a lack of condition clear.

Conclusion: I understand why they ‘nerfed’ healing turret. However they should have helped the other healing skills too. We’ve been stuck with healing turret for so long.

Here are some short suggestions for those who like:

- AED: Instant skill, to make it reactive (or maybe 1/4s). Also rework the Gadgeteer trait in order for it to be a bit better.
- Elixir H: Remove the random nature of the boons. Apply 6s of protection always.
- Throw Elixir H: Minor heal (1k?) on impact. + current effect.
- Medic Gyro: Don’t let it stop to ‘cast’ it’s healing effect. Increased survivability.
- Med kit: Tons of suggestion out here on the forum. Most easy ones? Make the skills ‘AoE Pylons’

With the healing turret nerf, now bandage self seems a bit more viable to me. (Elixir H is my default when running an elixir build.) It’s a pretty solid heal on a low cooldown., it’s great for proc’ ing sigil and other effects which require a healing. So you could rely on sigils which cleanse/convert conditions on heal.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Hammer wasn’t touched at all with the nerf bat and you seriously think that a heal with a 3/4 sec cast time has suddenly become terrible and now scrapper is dead? Last I checked, scrappers have a thing called stability that they have access to, make use of it if you have -that- much trouble getting your heal off.

Herein lies the problem, arguably one that is less troublesome for Scrapper than it is for Engineer. Remove scrapper from the equation and what we have is another blow to seeing the return of more core Engi builds due to a blatant 50% increase in activation time, something extremely noticeable to our previous selves because they have no (reliable) STAB. The kitten of it all is that Scrapper is largely unaffected by this, because everything about the trait line and hammer panders to the lowest common denominator in an effort to draw more sales/players. As a result, the almost forgotten remnants of skillful play returning are nearly gone due to the laziness that is Scrapper dwarfing core Engi.

tldr: This is really just a blow to core Engi, and has virtually no impact at all on the survivability/effectivity Scrapper possesses. Anet has, yet again, failed to isolate the real issue at hand and spun their ACME version of Wheel of Fortune to find anything to nerf and get the plebs off their back.

Valid point. The heal increase mainly hurt core engi rather than just scrapper. I corrected myself on the hammer not being nerfed, it lost one leap finisher on rocket charge (lol such nerf, very wow), but that I think is one of the things that makes scrapper so annoyingly strong: hammer. The rest I believe goes to how much damage output they can do with it while still being very durable with very few weaknesses. Shiro/Glint rev is extremely powerful, but has a very blatant weakness to condi, scrapper doesn’t have this issue. IMO, they could revert the heal nerf, that wasn’t the issue.

lmao. heal turret was most definitely the 2nd most broken heal in the game forever. Though the change hurts it honestly had it coming anet isnt in the wrong with a balance change for once