Guild Wars 2

at this time i see no longer any excuse for engineer not having a weapon swap function and or having a kitten invulnerability what exactly justifies engineer’s elixir S invulnerability to make them unable to use skills if its for the sake of “Realism” because we shrink then we should demand for elixir S to instead of shrink us make us metal skinned and it even coincides with the name Elixir Steel

it is unfair to be unable to do anything while everyone else can burst and heal and what not while invuln and to think the excuse for engi elixir nerf was because we could heal meanwhile warrior gets to heal while hit or regenerate from signet ontop of two invulns and neither cripple them

as far as weapon swap goes the only excuse for not having it is simply kits but carrying 3-4 of those is stupid and innefective in realistic scenarios , kits are next to useless in pve except for the flamethrower and in pvp basically elixir gun and tool kit are the only viable kits the flamethrower is picked up in pvp only for its toobelt skill wich slaps about 6 burn stacks

if we had the old mine kit still around then yeah would be cool and not to mention even kits are split in several trait lines

honestly weapon swap isnt that big of a deal for me as much as the elixir S crippling us for no reason heck most of my deaths in pvp were because the pesky elixir S passive pops up at a bad time

Now that we can wield a melee primary weap, I totally agree we should be given weapon swap. Just like ranger with LB/GS using traps, access to melee and ranged, with choice of melee or ranged skills/utilities. My agreement being said, hammer p/p engi is too op to fathom. It would be more game breaking than recent dd cele ele meta.

Elixir s? You want skills with auto stun break and invlun? Where are you currently finding a use for this in-game? For pvp, sneak gyro and EG do everything that elixir s does, equivalent or better, on top of having multitudes of other applications, that elixir s does. Only time elixir s is useful is in pvp, and only on the auto proc in alchemy. Otherwise it is a wasted utility/elixir slot.

Kits are useless in pve??? O-o. Open world: 4 kit condi in hot areas(almost every champ solo). Raid: 4 kit condi. Dungeon speed run: 4 kit power. Tell me that kit’s are useless.
You can easilly swap utilitiy on demand situation. And if you speaking about pvp, so except slickshoes i want see minot improve in gadgets.

basz.6129:

Now that we can wield a melee primary weap, I totally agree we should be given weapon swap. Just like ranger with LB/GS using traps, access to melee and ranged, with choice of melee or ranged skills/utilities. My agreement being said, hammer p/p engi is too op to fathom. It would be more game breaking than recent dd cele ele meta.

Elixir s? You want skills with auto stun break and invlun? Where are you currently finding a use for this in-game? For pvp, sneak gyro and EG do everything that elixir s does, equivalent or better, on top of having multitudes of other applications, that elixir s does. Only time elixir s is useful is in pvp, and only on the auto proc in alchemy. Otherwise it is a wasted utility/elixir slot.

and that is precisely my point the elixir itself is pretty bad sure its a stun break and invuln but you cannot do anything besides running as soon it is activated

so good luck if you had the elixir S trait while you are against a condi spamming build and it goes off while you got 5-6+ conditions thats 4 seconds you cannot take action against the damage

David.5974:

Kits are useless in pve??? O-o. Open world: 4 kit condi in hot areas(almost every champ solo). Raid: 4 kit condi. Dungeon speed run: 4 kit power. Tell me that kit’s are useless.
You can easilly swap utilitiy on demand situation. And if you speaking about pvp, so except slickshoes i want see minot improve in gadgets.

i ve been soloing champs without kits myself , they are useful but they are not that holy grail yoour praising them as, well at least the condi one definetly is superior over direct damage build

either way

i dont see how adding weapon swap functionality becomes a negative

Dunno for PvE, but for PvP I dont remember an engineer metabuild without kits, and every single kit of not meta is totaly viable. Also, with Stealth gyro I cannot see how you can actually manage to kill an engineer if he can stealth&heal while in elixir S, pretty much like ele vapor form. And, if the elixir proc annoys you you can run the heal on kit trait. I feel like weapon swap is an unnecessary buff :/

Krysard.1364:

Dunno for PvE, but for PvP I dont remember an engineer metabuild without kits, and every single kit of not meta is totaly viable. Also, with Stealth gyro I cannot see how you can actually manage to kill an engineer if he can stealth&heal while in elixir S, pretty much like ele vapor form. And, if the elixir proc annoys you you can run the heal on kit trait. I feel like weapon swap is an unnecessary buff :/

how exactly would having weapon swap break engineer
at most it would open up options for non kit builds

Rezzet.3614:

Krysard.1364:

Dunno for PvE, but for PvP I dont remember an engineer metabuild without kits, and every single kit of not meta is totaly viable. Also, with Stealth gyro I cannot see how you can actually manage to kill an engineer if he can stealth&heal while in elixir S, pretty much like ele vapor form. And, if the elixir proc annoys you you can run the heal on kit trait. I feel like weapon swap is an unnecessary buff :/

how exactly would having weapon swap break engineer
at most it would open up options for non kit builds

I would like some non-elixir engineer, but an engineer with weapon swap would be way stronger than it is now. Just imagine cele scrapper with pistols or marauder scrapper with rifle, with any pay-off, it would need to be rebalanced (prob with some kit cd or smth like this)

Weaponswap cooldown on the engineer? No thanks, I would instead advocate for more kits and making kits usable without having to trait for them (grenade kit explosion radius).

santenal.1054:

Weaponswap cooldown on the engineer? No thanks, I would instead advocate for more kits and making kits usable without having to trait for them (grenade kit explosion radius).

Same here. More kits is best idea which I ever see here.

David.5974:

santenal.1054:

Weaponswap cooldown on the engineer? No thanks, I would instead advocate for more kits and making kits usable without having to trait for them (grenade kit explosion radius).

Same here. More kits is best idea which I ever see here.

alrite a Rifle Kit would do i guess

Rezzet.3614:

David.5974:

santenal.1054:

Weaponswap cooldown on the engineer? No thanks, I would instead advocate for more kits and making kits usable without having to trait for them (grenade kit explosion radius).

Same here. More kits is best idea which I ever see here.

alrite a Rifle Kit would do i guess

Hehe xD i will welcome this too.. But i think that without cd swap this will be much OP. Could you imagine combo of hammer 5+3 and rifle 5? Other players (classes) want nerf scrapper to the bone and you want bring him nuke button i like your idea much, but i don’t see that it can be real.

David.5974:

Rezzet.3614:

David.5974:

santenal.1054:

Weaponswap cooldown on the engineer? No thanks, I would instead advocate for more kits and making kits usable without having to trait for them (grenade kit explosion radius).

Same here. More kits is best idea which I ever see here.

alrite a Rifle Kit would do i guess

Hehe xD i will welcome this too.. But i think that without cd swap this will be much OP. Could you imagine combo of hammer 5+3 and rifle 5? Other players (classes) want nerf scrapper to the bone and you want bring him nuke button i like your idea much, but i don’t see that it can be real.

Direct damage, sure rifle with hammer. But imagine dropping p/p condi rotation then switching to hammer for the multiple interrupts and hard cc, PLUS direct damage. So OP.

yeah if you give me that hammer with my current p/p condi build I will murder..hehe well murder more.hammer/rifle combo if we could wep swap would deff do a ton of damage. but honestly man no more burst then some of these other classes

on a side note . Maybe im biased (I have remained loyal to my engi since the beginning) but i have always felt that engineers are not aloud to be anything near overpowered yet when other classes are found to have these godly builds and damage potentials its totally ok and by design.. while it has definitely been getting better since i first started playing (balance wise) Something just feels wrong sometimes =(.

S didnt used to lock all of your skills, and it was deemed op and got nerfed to its current state where its been for like 2 years and it has still been in the meta post nerf.

the real question is why do you want to buff a utility that isnt underpowered?

“more kit” isn’t a solution. At all.
We’ll get more elite specs, with their utilities. And we’ll still be using our old kits even then, cause those utilities won’t be able to compete with kits.
And our weapons can’t be balanced properly when you have to take in account that they can be used either alone or with a ton of kits. The variance of power is far too high. And it usually ends up that they have to balance over the worst case (thus forcing us into kits further).

And regarding our weapons, well, people should make their mind. Either it is good enough to be used alone (as we have no second weapon set) without people whining that a single engineer weapon is stronger than some other classes’ one (as those are balanced over having two weapon sets available); or it gets compared and eventually nerfed to other weapons’ level, but we get the second weapon set other classes got by default.
Oh, here people will say: “but we have kits”.
Yeah. Kits that are optional – unlike our actual class mechanic, the toolbelt.
And something optional cannot dictate the balance of a whole class.
If kits are the cause of so many balancing issues…fix them, that’s the solution.

I am too much deformated playing engi. If I try play other class, i can’t believe how much low sort of skills I have. I must have ready skills for everything-and this give me kits.
So how do you want fix kits?
Btw: these toys is only reason why I play engi (I’m fatal hater of weap swap cd).

A way to fix it could be to rebalance the cooldowns on the skills included in the kits.
That would means raising many of them, most likely.
Of course, i don’t expect people to be happy if something like this ever happens. Many people like the current playstyle. What they don’t realize is that’s extremely detrimental to the balance of the core profession and that, in turn, also harms any future elite spec we could ever get (since they’re forced to balance them over kits).
And that such a change wouldn’t be an actual issue…since we can have a kit-focused elite specialization once the core class is properly balanced.
All they would need to do is to make an elite spec that removes the second weapon set and reverts the cooldown increases. With some new kits, or some kind of mechanic related to kits. And that’s it. The core class has its own balancing, and this elite spec can be balanced indipendently without harming any other elite spec.
And it works even if they do something else than raising skills cooldowns, anyway.
Cause the whole point is that by shifting the concept onto an elite spec, they would just need to balance the elite spec itself. Instead of the whole class.

Okay I understand and me-kits lover- let’s say that I can accept this. I don’t want take example in pvp now but in pve-raids: so now we running 4 kit condi. Many proffesions rotate 10skills(primary aa) +utility. We swaping kits like crazy bulls and except nade aa we never can use any aa(and yea nade is aoe skill.. My finger hurts). And still many classes have better group viable. So you think if they make kits something like “dps spike” in pve that this can be solution? Upgrade our core weapons? →and increase kit skills cd? Ithink that Anet dont touch on this

Rifle + Hammer would be amazing O_O

aagghhh please use punctuation.

If you want to make a kitless spec, put a heavy coldown (like 8 seconds) so when you swap into a kit, all other kits would be on an 8 second coldown.

Now why would you want to do that ?

Well if you are limited to a single kit in combat or unable to chain spells and have options, than the kits (all of them) would need to be buffed or remade.

I think having a weapon swap would just make engineer more powerful – imagine hammer rifle that is crazy burst stun locking potential haha.

I think that engineer should be moved away from kits, and maybe promoted to stay in a single kit for longer periods of time rather than kit dancing to do a 25 button rotation, and having 2-3 cc 1-2 boon buffs – and a couple of finishers and fields.

But that is just my opinion. I say no to weapon swap.

basz.6129:

David.5974:

Rezzet.3614:

David.5974:

santenal.1054:

Weaponswap cooldown on the engineer? No thanks, I would instead advocate for more kits and making kits usable without having to trait for them (grenade kit explosion radius).

Same here. More kits is best idea which I ever see here.

alrite a Rifle Kit would do i guess

Hehe xD i will welcome this too.. But i think that without cd swap this will be much OP. Could you imagine combo of hammer 5+3 and rifle 5? Other players (classes) want nerf scrapper to the bone and you want bring him nuke button i like your idea much, but i don’t see that it can be real.

Direct damage, sure rifle with hammer. But imagine dropping p/p condi rotation then switching to hammer for the multiple interrupts and hard cc, PLUS direct damage. So OP.

welp i guess thats where the rifle kit idea comes in handy and actually balanced if its not as bursty nor able to cc as our main rifle but not as weak as the elixir gun kit , simply put i want a Reliable ranged damage option with the hammer direct damage wise , as it is im pretty much stuck using hammer and elixir gun+ air/fire sigils to compensate for its low damage asides from #4 skill grenades and mortar are nice and all but won’t do against high mobility enemies.

insanemaniac.2456:

S didnt used to lock all of your skills, and it was deemed op and got nerfed to its current state where its been for like 2 years and it has still been in the meta post nerf.

the real question is why do you want to buff a utility that isnt underpowered?

my question is Why was elixir S deemed overpowered to begin with ?
if it was because it made the player tiny then that is unnaceptable and should simply be remade to make player larger or metalic skinned or whatever
it just seems like it was nerfed unfairly to me hence why im seeking information to see what i am actually missing same should go for the mortar’s 30% damage nerf to be honest said nerf should ve only be applied on pvp

1) Elixir S is great, especially the proc, but even the regular utility is good. The stealth isn’t as useful cause stealth gyro, but if you decide to use one of the other strong elites than it can be good.

I believe the only true invulns that let players use skills are mesmer distortion effects and ele obsidian flesh. Over the history of the game these have normally been justified because ele never took focus anyway and mesmers have traditionally been too glassy to take skill use while invuln away. They are to reliant on it to survive for the short time they are in a fight before disengaging. Both classes have bunker builds that are getting nerfed anyway, so I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Elixir S skill use was taken away because they can get really awesome healing combos, and it was deemed imbalanced. The current meta build, as well as the cele build have insane sustain, and would probably be OP if you could bust out healing combos while invuln.

2) An entire rebalance of the class would be much more difficult then just balancing what is out now and the extra specs later. A lot of utilities could use buffs, as with literally every class in every gametype, but adding weapon swap just forces them to do a balance on what is already balanced. That’s way harder than balancing UP things now, which again everything else needs.

3) A really easy to play engi spec could do well in pretty much every gamemode. If you want to play a top tier build in any game type, your gonna have to learn to play it as a top tier player. That or switch to something easier, which for the majority of content/enemies won’t be a big detriment.

TLDR Elixir S was imba, rebalancing everything for weapon swap is too time consuming, easy engi specs do fine, L2P if you want to be god tier with the best engi builds.

Personally I believe that weapon swap should’ve been present on engineers a long time ago, for the same reason that the rev was given weapon swap even though it wasn’t in the initial design of the class. Not being able to swap weapons just severely limits available options and roles in combat. The only class that this isn’t true for is the elementalist, but that’s because they have attunements instead. The engi doesn’t have anything like that – kits are utility skills NOT a class mechanic and I think forcing engi into one weapon set just makes kits the only viable choice in most situations. Weapon swapping would free up space for different options for what’s supposed to be the most versatile profession in the game. All of that’s just my opinion though.

zapv.8051:

1) Elixir S is great, especially the proc, but even the regular utility is good. The stealth isn’t as useful cause stealth gyro, but if you decide to use one of the other strong elites than it can be good.

TLDR Elixir S was imba, rebalancing everything for weapon swap is too time consuming, easy engi specs do fine, L2P if you want to be god tier with the best engi builds.

alrite explain what made elixir S imbalanced

Rezzet.3614:

zapv.8051:

1) Elixir S is great, especially the proc, but even the regular utility is good. The stealth isn’t as useful cause stealth gyro, but if you decide to use one of the other strong elites than it can be good.

TLDR Elixir S was imba, rebalancing everything for weapon swap is too time consuming, easy engi specs do fine, L2P if you want to be god tier with the best engi builds.

alrite explain what made elixir S imbalanced

Stealth+op heal+high burst while being immune to everything. The imbalance comes from the high amount of things he can do without any counterplay.
For example: Condi engie vs condi reaper.
As a reaper, when you fight an engi you want to condi burst him when hes 30% so Elixir S procs and he cant cleanse it. Bye bye. If he survives, you want to CC him so he cannot use his heal. Bye bye. If he’s condi, you want to transfer condis when he condiburst you. Bye bye.

the class and its weapons are just not designed with weapons swap in mind.

it would make the class too strong, as all it’s weapons are more powerful to make up for the lack of weapon swap. hammer/rifle with nades would be stupidly powerful. there would have to be a lot of nerfs that I don’t trust, or want anet to make. I still lay and swap between rifle and hammer over gamemodes they are better as alternatives. both would be too strong.

if it ain’t broke dont fix it.

caerulean.4837:

Personally I believe that weapon swap should’ve been present on engineers a long time ago, for the same reason that the rev was given weapon swap even though it wasn’t in the initial design of the class. Not being able to swap weapons just severely limits available options and roles in combat. The only class that this isn’t true for is the elementalist, but that’s because they have attunements instead. The engi doesn’t have anything like that – kits are utility skills NOT a class mechanic and I think forcing engi into one weapon set just makes kits the only viable choice in most situations. Weapon swapping would free up space for different options for what’s supposed to be the most versatile profession in the game. All of that’s just my opinion though.

Engis have toolbelt skills. If you take two kits, you’ve got 28 skills. That’s a lot more than the rev that has 22 or 23. The class was built with kits being designed as half the weapons or more. If they had weapon swap they would have at a minimum 20 skills, but could knock that up to 36 if they wanted. That’s too much deviation to balance and literally everything would need to be nerfed slightly to accommodate that. Believe it or not engis are actually in a decent place, so why would they put in all that work to fix something that isn’t broken. Granted there are things that do need work, but that’s the same on every class. This isn’t even mentioning the fact that engis only have 3 mainhand weapons, so they would need to design a 1 or 2 more to fill that out. That is far too much work for them to put into a class that functions well as it is.

Rezzet.3614:

zapv.8051:

1) Elixir S is great, especially the proc, but even the regular utility is good. The stealth isn’t as useful cause stealth gyro, but if you decide to use one of the other strong elites than it can be good.

TLDR Elixir S was imba, rebalancing everything for weapon swap is too time consuming, easy engi specs do fine, L2P if you want to be god tier with the best engi builds.

alrite explain what made elixir S imbalanced

Basically, you hit elixir s, healing turret blast finish a few times, and you’ve healed for too much while invuln. Other classes cannot heal for anywhere close to this much while invuln with the possible exception of ele. That requires them to take focus, which means they don’t have the extra cleansing wave of dagger 5 in water. Their base tankiness is also much lower than engis.

It also allowed mini-engis too deal burst combos while invuln, which is something anet watches closely with both eles and mesmers. They felt it was just too much on engi, so they nerfed it.

The other reason is that eles and mesmer have resource management in attunement cd and clones. If a mes uses their invuln, they aren’t going to be able to burst instantly because they will need to resummon clones. Eles will also probably have a few attunements on cd when they pop obsidian flesh, limiting their skill use. Engis don’t have this because kits don’t have cds.

zapv.8051:

caerulean.4837:

Personally I believe that weapon swap should’ve been present on engineers a long time ago, for the same reason that the rev was given weapon swap even though it wasn’t in the initial design of the class. Not being able to swap weapons just severely limits available options and roles in combat. The only class that this isn’t true for is the elementalist, but that’s because they have attunements instead. The engi doesn’t have anything like that – kits are utility skills NOT a class mechanic and I think forcing engi into one weapon set just makes kits the only viable choice in most situations. Weapon swapping would free up space for different options for what’s supposed to be the most versatile profession in the game. All of that’s just my opinion though.

Engis have toolbelt skills. If you take two kits, you’ve got 28 skills. That’s a lot more than the rev that has 22 or 23. The class was built with kits being designed as half the weapons or more. If they had weapon swap they would have at a minimum 20 skills, but could knock that up to 36 if they wanted. That’s too much deviation to balance and literally everything would need to be nerfed slightly to accommodate that. Believe it or not engis are actually in a decent place, so why would they put in all that work to fix something that isn’t broken. Granted there are things that do need work, but that’s the same on every class. This isn’t even mentioning the fact that engis only have 3 mainhand weapons, so they would need to design a 1 or 2 more to fill that out. That is far too much work for them to put into a class that functions well as it is.

Rezzet.3614:

zapv.8051:

1) Elixir S is great, especially the proc, but even the regular utility is good. The stealth isn’t as useful cause stealth gyro, but if you decide to use one of the other strong elites than it can be good.

TLDR Elixir S was imba, rebalancing everything for weapon swap is too time consuming, easy engi specs do fine, L2P if you want to be god tier with the best engi builds.

alrite explain what made elixir S imbalanced

Basically, you hit elixir s, healing turret blast finish a few times, and you’ve healed for too much while invuln. Other classes cannot heal for anywhere close to this much while invuln with the possible exception of ele. That requires them to take focus, which means they don’t have the extra cleansing wave of dagger 5 in water. Their base tankiness is also much lower than engis.

It also allowed mini-engis too deal burst combos while invuln, which is something anet watches closely with both eles and mesmers. They felt it was just too much on engi, so they nerfed it.

The other reason is that eles and mesmer have resource management in attunement cd and clones. If a mes uses their invuln, they aren’t going to be able to burst instantly because they will need to resummon clones. Eles will also probably have a few attunements on cd when they pop obsidian flesh, limiting their skill use. Engis don’t have this because kits don’t have cds.

warriors can heal 9k+ with adrenal health just fine while invuln and having access to all their skills and burst damage and still have another invuln from traits and/or then have yet another invuln with the heal that heals warrior for taken damage

kit skills do have CDs and only 2 kits are ranged nades and mortar 3 if you consider elixir gun’s lame auto attack a damage skill
oh and the fact that the so called burst comboes got nerfed to hell , anything 100nades related basically.

so far i dont see any real valid justification

Rezzet.3614:

warriors

wait, are you trying to compare engies with warrs?
Anyway, it would be broken for several reasons exposed on this forum, if you dont want to believe them theres really nothing we can do

Krysard.1364:

Rezzet.3614:

warriors

wait, are you trying to compare engies with warrs?
Anyway, it would be broken for several reasons exposed on this forum, if you dont want to believe them theres really nothing we can do

if someone uses “engineer could heal while invulnerable” while some profession can heal for tons presently why should i not point that out as a counter argument hmm?
No one has pointed out a single real valid season everyone just says it was op because i said so or because someone else said so

but here i will give you guys a proper example of why engi’s elixir S would be overpowered if they could use skills with it :

Because unlike other invulnerability skills it acts like ele’s vapor form you may target the engi but skills cant actually land , thus rendering engi invuln not to just direct attacks but from having conditions being applied

Rezzet.3614:

Krysard.1364:

Rezzet.3614:

warriors

wait, are you trying to compare engies with warrs?
Anyway, it would be broken for several reasons exposed on this forum, if you dont want to believe them theres really nothing we can do

if someone uses “engineer could heal while invulnerable” while some profession can heal for tons presently why should i not point that out as a counter argument hmm?
No one has pointed out a single real valid season everyone just says it was op because i said so or because someone else said so

but here i will give you guys a proper example of why engi’s elixir S would be overpowered if they could use skills with it :

Because unlike other invulnerability skills it acts like ele’s vapor form you may target the engi but skills cant actually land , thus rendering engi invuln not to just direct attacks but from having conditions being applied

back then you could pull someone into a double nade barrage, potentially while invuln, for ~20k burst. it wasnt just healing. anything to do with kits was accessible.

insanemaniac.2456:

Rezzet.3614:

Krysard.1364:

Rezzet.3614:

warriors

wait, are you trying to compare engies with warrs?
Anyway, it would be broken for several reasons exposed on this forum, if you dont want to believe them theres really nothing we can do

if someone uses “engineer could heal while invulnerable” while some profession can heal for tons presently why should i not point that out as a counter argument hmm?
No one has pointed out a single real valid season everyone just says it was op because i said so or because someone else said so

but here i will give you guys a proper example of why engi’s elixir S would be overpowered if they could use skills with it :

Because unlike other invulnerability skills it acts like ele’s vapor form you may target the engi but skills cant actually land , thus rendering engi invuln not to just direct attacks but from having conditions being applied

back then you could pull someone into a double nade barrage, potentially while invuln, for ~20k burst. it wasnt just healing. anything to do with kits was accessible.

This.
I was not talking about healing, I’ve said he can heal, he can stealth, he can burst, etc, all without any counterplay.

Krysard.1364:

insanemaniac.2456:

Rezzet.3614:

Krysard.1364:

Rezzet.3614:

warriors

wait, are you trying to compare engies with warrs?
Anyway, it would be broken for several reasons exposed on this forum, if you dont want to believe them theres really nothing we can do

if someone uses “engineer could heal while invulnerable” while some profession can heal for tons presently why should i not point that out as a counter argument hmm?
No one has pointed out a single real valid season everyone just says it was op because i said so or because someone else said so

but here i will give you guys a proper example of why engi’s elixir S would be overpowered if they could use skills with it :

Because unlike other invulnerability skills it acts like ele’s vapor form you may target the engi but skills cant actually land , thus rendering engi invuln not to just direct attacks but from having conditions being applied

back then you could pull someone into a double nade barrage, potentially while invuln, for ~20k burst. it wasnt just healing. anything to do with kits was accessible.

This.
I was not talking about healing, I’ve said he can heal, he can stealth, he can burst, etc, all without any counterplay.

good argument except 100nades and 100 nademine builds got nerfed when the first trait rework happened , and said builds were actually counterable just that back then gw2 was fresh and hardly anyone used stun break and stability hell people thought 100blades was op for the same reason no one broke out of the knocdown+ immobilize combo

but still valid argument over the usual just being told its so because someone said so anyways this thread is dead at this point as i ve seen how bad weapon swap would be on scrapper as well as realized the full potential of elixir S however i do think elixir S needs a rework still it is more harm than good as it is