What I hate most about the Engi
new elite spec adds a sword and a melee transformation
so as xzibit would put it: we added more melee to your meelee so you can meelee while meleeing.
(unlike core engi it has actual damage though )
new elite spec adds a sword and a melee transformation
so as xzibit would put it: we added more melee to your meelee so you can meelee while meleeing.
(unlike core engi it has actual damage though )
This game has so much melee, and so many anti ranged skills, you may as well call it Melee Wars 2.
new elite spec adds a sword and a melee transformation
so as xzibit would put it: we added more melee to your meelee so you can meelee while meleeing.
(unlike core engi it has actual damage though )
This game has so much melee, and so many anti ranged skills, you may as well call it Melee Wars 2.
Core Engi was definitely not melee, especially when you had Pistols/Rifle & Grenades.
Even if they were better the closer you got, you still could be effective at range. Kinda miss that being viable.
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He only has a few weapon choices.
We have few primary weapon choices, but our kit skills are unique that no one else has and each of them are useful and cool in their own way.
Pistols, being 900 range, aren’t really 900 range. Their highest damage ability, Pistol 4, is essentially a melee skill.
Pistol auto attack is also powerful. Most mobs I can lazily attack from a distance and stack up a lot of bleeds, poisons, and burn from a safe distance. Static shot is also very powerful. Some mobs do rapid attacks and will get decimated when they have confusion on them. Alchemical pistol play use to be very effective in PvP back in the day too, before power creep and balance changes.
Grenade kit is 900 range, but very hard to hit anyone from that range so usually have to be like 300-600 range away for good effectiveness.
Bomb kit is melee range.
Depends on how effective you are with them. I generally don’t have a problem landing long range throws. Also, both kits allow you to kite while still doing full damage. Try doing that with a warrior who can only swing his sword in front of him. An engineer can run in circles and kill a champion without ever taking a scratch.
His elite Mortar kit IS long range, but the damage is so pathetic and useless it’s very rarely if ever used by anyone.
It has its uses, even in a WvW scenario. The double orbital strike use to be a strong burst on a zerk engineer back before Anet changed its mechanics. The mortar we have today is hundreds of times better than what we had at release, so I fully welcome that kit with open arms and love it for its extra heal as well.
Engineers have the best ranged and spammable AOE abilities in the game, with strong condition application and CC. My advice? Just practice a bit more with kits, rotations, and play styles. Ground attacks are a huge competitive advantage over locked targets. Also, don’t play GW2 under the guise that there should be fully ranged professions. Just like DOTA, most people who flock to range only want to play it safe from the back, but if you want any progression you’re going to have to get into the thick of it.
new elite spec adds a sword and a melee transformation
so as xzibit would put it: we added more melee to your meelee so you can meelee while meleeing.
(unlike core engi it has actual damage though )
This game has so much melee, and so many anti ranged skills, you may as well call it Melee Wars 2.
Core Engi was definitely not melee, especially when you had Pistols/Rifle & Grenades.
Even if they were better the closer you got, you still could be effective at range. Kinda miss that being viable.
so do i
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
Well, it’s more like the melee skills on rifle are way better than the ranged ones. So it’s sorta weird that even ranged weapons work better point blank.
But I’d rather complain about projectile hate and retaliation since those have made ranged much less useful overall in WvW where ironically it would actually be useful. In other cases, boon share already favors melee.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
Most days I run open world in HoT at full Zerk with Runes of the Ogre, Zerk Rifle for the weapon, Heal Turret for my Skill 6, Bulwark Gyro for 7, Blast Gyro for 8, Grenade Kit for 9, and either Mortar or Supply Crate for my Elite. It gets the job done in open world PvE and WvW just fine, and it’s primarily a build that stays at range with a few measured damage bursts and some surprises if enemies get in closer.
It’s far and away not Meta, but I like it and it’s fun.
You know I could probably come onto the Internet and say “The sky is blue” and 5000 people would reply “No it isn’t”.
You people just love to disagree with anything anyways says.
The fact still remains:
For how melee oriented all of the Engineer weapons and skills are it’s really sad that the rifle (the LONGEST range weapon in the game) is also more melee oriented with its skills than its ranged ones.
Hell 3 out of the 5 attacks for rifle have LESS range than pistol and that just makes me want to puke.
And now the new specialization, Holosmith, is MORE melee! Added a sword, and a bunch of new attacks that require melee range while in holoforge. GREAT!
I just feel if I wanted so much melee I’d play the warrior or guardian instead.
This is the part where you’re incorrect.
I think Holosmith is a good spec that can fulfill both range and melee need.
By grabbing Crystal Configuration: Storm, you effectively get a new range AA attack that actually hit in a radius that does good damage.
Phanton Forge 4 is also a good range burst.
Phanton Forge 5 is a huge aoe skill.
I tried Holosmith in PoF map during stress test and really really like the playstyle, a mix of range and melee hypbrid.
At one point in time, the engineer went from being a CC king to …. rather restricted. The power creep and passive defense of elites has made it much less effective. Did you know Overcharged Shot was once a matter of great QQ? It’s crazy to think about it nowadays.
The removal of the daze gyro (meaning if you take them, you get NO cc) and the nerf to thunderclap was a crippling blow. Yes, there’s still some decent skills left but it’s not what it was.
What does this have to do with anything? Well, your range could suck if you can tie people down…. this is no longer the case.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
For any class you either like playing it or you dont.
You cant like a class and hate it at the same time.
All classes are in some way a compromise in order to try and achieve balance, so ultimately you also have to compromise on what you expect.
I play the Engineer because its a fun class to play.
I know it doesnt have the hitting power of many of the other classes, but since the whole point of playing games is for fun, who cares.
…you keep using the word melee range…but you have no idea what’s a melee range
it’s like saying d/d ele is melee…no it’s truly not, sword ele is melee yes, d/d ele is not melee, it’s huge aoe, you just need to be in a certain area and people get hurt.
try play some real melee classes and see for yourself
true melee range is 130 in front of you
(edited by lighter.2708)
Well, grenades used to be high-tier damage at 1500 range. It was a little silly that a thrown weapon could outrange anything but a ranger’s longbow…
I think the core issue is that core engineer weapons were designed to be jack-of-all-trades weapons. It was possible for an engineer to only have one weapon option – therefore, this weapon needed to be at least vaguely competitive at range without being totally helpless in melee. The solution was to give them a long-range autoattack, with other skills that are oriented towards closer combat which gives them the punch to be dangerous there as well. You see something similar with elementalists, particularly scepter and dagger elementalists (staff elementalists tend to be more focused on don’t-let-them-get-near-me). If you wanted to build towards long-range combat, you’d take utilities, including kits, to do so.
The elite specialisations getting sword and hammer are pretty much ArenaNet giving what was asked for. That might not be the specific motivation, but that was the end result.
Problem is that the longer-ranged options have generally been nerfed, and the obvious long-ranged options for engineers have already been used. I guess there could be room for a trick arrow-style Engineer using a bow, in the vein of Green Arrow and Hawkeye, although thief shortbow seems to already sit in that area.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
…you keep using the word melee range…but you have no idea what’s a melee range
it’s like saying d/d ele is melee…no it’s truly not, sword ele is melee yes, d/d ele is not melee, it’s huge aoe, you just need to be in a certain area and people get hurt.
try play some real melee classes and see for yourself
true melee range is 130 in front of you
If a melee hero can dash 600 range, then smash your face in, then 600 is melee range.
Ranged attacks are attacks you can make without fear of being attacked.
So just cause a game says you have an attack that has 600 range, doesn’t mean you’re SAFE. If you’re 600 range from most anyone you can get picked off by MELEE weapons that slow, stun, get thrown, or dashed to.
Pistol mainhand attacks are 900 range, but the highest damage one (pistol 4) is most damage at MELEE RANGE.
I mean at 1200 Range the Engi is essentially an auto attack spammer. This is what I really hate about the class.
Somewhere some guy sat down at a table with other devs and was like “Oh you know what would be fun, is if the Engi used a rifle like a shotgun!” and they were all like “OHHHH YA COOL LET’S DO THAT!”
In reality when almost all of his other tools and skills are close range it’s just pathetic and kittenes me off. Hell the Revenant is more effective at 1200 range than Engi is.
So the two elite specializations added are MELEE and MELEE with more skills that are MELEE. Forge aoe skill is a MELEE skill I don’t care if it says 600 range or whatever. You have to be in melee range of everyone to use it.
So like I said I wish the rifle was an effective 1200 ranged attack skill weapon other than just auto attack spamming. Not more melee skills on top of other melee skills on top of more melee skills.
Sometimes I wonder if they don’t even know, or just don’t care.
Legendary Defender of Casuals
I mean at 1200 Range the Engi is essentially an auto attack spammer. This is what I really hate about the class.
[…]
So like I said I wish the rifle was an effective 1200 ranged attack skill weapon other than just auto attack spamming. Not more melee skills on top of other melee skills on top of more melee skills.
Most ranged builds in this game revolve around spamming their most powerful attacks and using AA as filler. Engie is a class that splits its focus between damage and support, so a lot of its damage skills are utilities, be they kits or normal skills.
Getting angry because a weapon with solid AA, a ranged immob, a KB/Cleanse, a Jump skill, and a close range AoE simply because only one skill has a 1200 range is silly. That much range is already plenty useful. If you want a sniper built, trait for it and pick the right utilities for burst damage.
…you keep using the word melee range…but you have no idea what’s a melee range
it’s like saying d/d ele is melee…no it’s truly not, sword ele is melee yes, d/d ele is not melee, it’s huge aoe, you just need to be in a certain area and people get hurt.
try play some real melee classes and see for yourself
true melee range is 130 in front of youIf a melee hero can dash 600 range, then smash your face in, then 600 is melee range.
by that logic, rev hammer is also melee range
btw thief can dash 2100 range to your face, does that mean 2100 range is melee range, so everything in game is melee, there’s no ranged. yes, everybody’s melee only, longbow ranger is also melee range
(edited by lighter.2708)
new elite spec adds a sword and a melee transformation
so as xzibit would put it: we added more melee to your meelee so you can meelee while meleeing.
(unlike core engi it has actual damage though )
That would make a perfect signature LOL
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
…you keep using the word melee range…but you have no idea what’s a melee range
it’s like saying d/d ele is melee…no it’s truly not, sword ele is melee yes, d/d ele is not melee, it’s huge aoe, you just need to be in a certain area and people get hurt.
try play some real melee classes and see for yourself
true melee range is 130 in front of youIf a melee hero can dash 600 range, then smash your face in, then 600 is melee range.
Ranged attacks are attacks you can make without fear of being attacked.
So just cause a game says you have an attack that has 600 range, doesn’t mean you’re SAFE. If you’re 600 range from most anyone you can get picked off by MELEE weapons that slow, stun, get thrown, or dashed to.
Pistol mainhand attacks are 900 range, but the highest damage one (pistol 4) is most damage at MELEE RANGE.
I mean at 1200 Range the Engi is essentially an auto attack spammer. This is what I really hate about the class.
Somewhere some guy sat down at a table with other devs and was like “Oh you know what would be fun, is if the Engi used a rifle like a shotgun!” and they were all like “OHHHH YA COOL LET’S DO THAT!”
In reality when almost all of his other tools and skills are close range it’s just pathetic and kittenes me off. Hell the Revenant is more effective at 1200 range than Engi is.
So the two elite specializations added are MELEE and MELEE with more skills that are MELEE. Forge aoe skill is a MELEE skill I don’t care if it says 600 range or whatever. You have to be in melee range of everyone to use it.
So like I said I wish the rifle was an effective 1200 ranged attack skill weapon other than just auto attack spamming. Not more melee skills on top of other melee skills on top of more melee skills.
I agree, and I feel these very same frustrations. I even went Berserker to see if I could do more damage as a rifle scrapper, but sadly, autoattack can only hit for 1.8k crits. Meanwhile, a longbow ranger AAs you for 4k or more at 1200 range and a hammer rev AAs you for 3k. Warrior AA damage is about the same as engi’s, but as you’ve pointed out, they also can use skills 2-4 from 1200 range.
It was a sad day when I found out that rifle warrior was way better than rifle engi when engi has only 4 weapons to choose from and warrior has so many.
Nobody has mentioned Deadeye yet…
I miss the old Grenade kit.
When we didn’t have to give up an Elite slot for a weapon that slowly chugs explosives over 1500 range.
When that weapon actually had some good damage options for both Power and Condi builds.
Engi has always been fairly centric or close-range (sub600 range). Autoattacking with a rifle or hoping slow, arcing, projectiles hit is not a reliable way to fight ranged combat (maybe pve against fairly immobile/predictable targets).
That Engi didn’t get a (long-)range option as an Elite spec yet is most surprising to me, it’s the profession that lacks it the most. Instead it’s just more melee and more close range.
At least, as people already mentioned, it seems to actually pack a real punch. Untill the patch that nerfs it all so far into the ground Arenanet can reclassify as a Geological Survey Instute. Kind of why i am holding off from playing Holosmith untill the inevitable Nerf patch happend to see if it’s still worth the hassle to invest time and effort after that.
TBH as fun as rifle can be sometimes, we now have 2 options for close range power builds with both elite specs so I think reworking rifle to be an actual ranged weapon wouldn’t be a bad idea. Plus the fact that of anyone who doesn’t own either expack they still have the options for kits to be close range power in the event of rifle becoming ranged.
Either that or rework mortar kit to substitute being a ranged power weapon that is actually effective and could be used reliably as a power ranged weapon.