Guild Wars 2

Goal: Brainstorming ways to make Gadgets something you would actually want to run. Personally, my suggestions are going to focus on making an All-Gadget build viable. As a result please feel free to point out any potential OP synergy. Note that what I list are just some possible options and I’m not suggesting all of them be added, because some overlap or would be OP.

I’m going to start with the traits:

Gadgeteer: The idea behind this trait is great, the execution was not. Not only is the duration too short, most of the boons aren’t that helpful. Due to how they’re designed, Gadgets are intended for use in a power based build with the option for a ton of CC. Chances are you aren’t going to have much healing power, so Slick Shoes giving regen means that you get a tiny heal from a skill with a long CD (even when traited). The only boons that do help with sustain is Aegis on Throw Mine and Vigor on Rocket Boots. What Engis lack in general is Stability, so why not give Slick Shoes that instead? Putting Protection a long lasting Vigor on A.E.D may also help with sustain but that may be too strong if paired with Protection Injection and Protective Shield or it may be just what the build needs.

Speedy Gadgets: It’s a simple CD reduction skill, but that’s pretty important with CDs as long as these. However, a major issue pure Gadget builds have is that they really stink on the mobility front. Sure, Slick Shoes has super speed but that’s on a long CD. Since the word “Speedy” is in the name why not also make it give a a small passive speed increase for each Gadget? Nothing too major, maybe 3-4% per gadget. It would still be slower than a Engi with Speedy Kits but it will at least make them a bit more mobile.

Static Discharge: This isn’t a Gadget trait but it could synergize well with some changes. The most annoying thing about this skill is that unless the tool belt skill directly targets an enemy the discharge just shoots into the dirt. It should head towards your target or the nearest enemy if you’re not consistently. Thie would probably require a small tweak to Mine Field though because atm placing and detonating causes a discharge and that may give a bit too much DPS.

The skills themselves:

A.E.D: I’m starting with this one because while the recent buff made it a bit better, it’s still not good. I like the high risk high reward aspect, but losing your condi cleanse on a class with so little already really hurts. Perhaps give it a passive removal every now and then when you have Gadgeteer instead of a boon/in addition to a defensive boon (I mean that IS a long CD for a heal even with the potential payout).

As for Static Shock, the range on it is terrible and landing it is unreliable. Instead of a stun I would much rather have a shot of lightning with something like 900 range that dazes for half a second of something. It would synergize with SD better and keep the CC theme while not being super strong.

Utility Goggles: No real complaints, a stun break with Fury and blind immunity in addition to a tool belt skill that applies vuln and reveal.

Slick Shoes: If Speedy Gadgets was buffed as suggested the CD wouldn’t be so bad and the skill is fun and effective.

Personal Battering Ram: I really like the idea of this skill and it’s fun to use. That being said it feel REALLY unreliable because once again the range is way too short. A range of 400 (same as Overcharged Shot) might make it worth using since the tool belt skill already synergizes with SD.

Rocket Boots: Another skill that’s fine as is except for it occasionally spitting you back the way you came. This wasn’t a problem before some hopefully it gets fixed eventually.

Throw Mine: A pretty cool skill, with a buff to the Ram’s range you could chain CC pretty effectively by tossing this on your launched target and mid air detonating it. The boon removal is also nice.

The problem with Mine Field is that the way it deploys is generally random. The pattern should be consistent so that it doesn’t screw the user over.

That’s all I have for now. If I had to pick just 3 of my changed I would go with Gadgeteer giving better defensive boons (it’s the number 1 issue), the Mine Field pattern being consistent, and either range increases in Static Shock or Battering Ram. I can do without the Speedy Kit changes because Power Shoes does exist and I can fit it in a build.

The actual mechanics behind Gadgets are the most original and fun in the game imo but currently they simply don’t give you enough sustain or the skills themselves are too difficult to hit (why would you want to be in melee range).

Honestly, these are the changes that I’d like to see:

-Change Gadgeteer Boon: A.E.D. from Retaliation to Stability (5 sec).

-Change Gadgeteer Boon: Slick Shoes from Regeneration to Vigor (10 sec).

-Change Gadgeteer Boon: Rocket Shoes from Vigor to Swiftness (10 sec).

-Increase Static Shock’s range to 400. Increase Stun Duration to 1.5 sec.

I wouldn’t want to give A.E.D. Protection as we WANT to die when we use A.E.D. and protection might prevent our death.

I know adding Swiftness to Rocket Boots is lame because of our perma-swiftness, but this way we can choose to take Speedy Gadgets instead of Speedy Kits while still having a way to gain Swiftness. Also, Swiftness increases the travel distance of Rocket Boots :^)

FinalJustice.5824:

Honestly, these are the changes that I’d like to see:

-Change Gadgeteer Boon: A.E.D. from Retaliation to Stability (5 sec).

-Change Gadgeteer Boon: Slick Shoes from Regeneration to Vigor (10 sec).

-Change Gadgeteer Boon: Rocket Shoes from Vigor to Swiftness (10 sec).

-Increase Static Shock’s range to 400. Increase Stun Duration to 1.5 sec.

I wouldn’t want to give A.E.D. Protection as we WANT to die when we use A.E.D. and protection might prevent our death.

I know adding Swiftness to Rocket Boots is lame because of our perma-swiftness, but this way we can choose to take Speedy Gadgets instead of Speedy Kits while still having a way to gain Swiftness. Also, Swiftness increases the travel distance of Rocket Boots :^)

You’re right about the protection, however Stability doesn’t really help much either. I mean it’s primary use is for stomping or denying follow up control. I don’t see you getting much use out of that.

I would say Stability fits Slick Shoes best in terms of CD and the fact that it has a stun break. Maybe a longer duration Vigor on A.E.D since we won’t have the high uptime that kit based builds have?

I do see several issues with Gadgets.

• Baseline damage
• Gadget traits
• Gadget skills
• Condition removal

Baseline damage probably is my biggest concern. I do not see Gadgeters being worth it as long as the baseline damage of Engineers remains on its current level. Some people might argue Rifle is fine because of the flood of celestial Engineers but I’d disagree. Pistols are quite pathetic even if fully traited in Firearms. The weapon skills really need to be looked at and some weapon traits could need adjustments, too.

Gadget traits are a bit off. As you said yourself, Static Discharge isn’t really a Gadget trait which leaves us with Speedy Gadgets and Gadgeteer. Speedy Gadgets is alright but doesn’t change much especially for those Gadgets with low cooldowns. Gadgeteer isn’t bad per se but the boons certainly need adjustments. It also feels slightly misplaced because of the boons. Again, as a whole it hardly makes a difference. It also resembles HGH way too much. Gadgeteer could work similar to Kit Refinements to keep Gadgets and Elixirs seperated (unique effects vs. boons) and provide a passive – yes, passive effects are bad yadda yadda – damage boost (and maybe defense boost like -x% condition duration, too) based on the number of equipped Gadgets. This could partly solve the base damage issue (and condition removal issue) Gadgeteers face.

When it comes to the skills I see two issues. First, some skills have a way too big overlap. For example, Super Speed (Slick Shoes) and Rocket Boots have a very similar purpose even though it is executed differently. Still, you will probably rarely see people pick both skills at once because of this overlap. Heck, you could even combine them and make it Slick Shoes + Rocket Boots. I doubt people would miss Super Speed (maybe the stunbreaker part) and Rocket Kick which both are extremly boring. I see a similar overlap with Throw Mine and Personal Battering Ram. Second, many Gadgets suffer from having rather questionable Toolbelt skills. Some effects are just boring (e.g. Rocket Kick: It could cause an AoE explosion with a short fire field) others are simply underwhelming (e.g. Launch Personal Battering Ram: Only abused for SD etc.). Others might only need a slight buff (e.g. Mine Field). Something has to be done though if they are supposed to compete with Elixirs and Kits. Right now they lack the uniqueness of Elixir Toolbelt skills and also can’t compete with the overall versatility which Kits offer.

Last but not least: Condition Removal. As a Gadgeteer your usually not left with many trait points to spare for defense. You don’t get CF409. You don’t gett EG or enough blocks through TK. Adding condition removal to A.E.D. was a good idea but the high cooldown and the situational purpose make it insufficient as sole condition removal. A slightly lower cooldown on A.E.D. and another partial condition removal like on Rocket Boots could really help. A slight resilience against conditions in general (e.g. as mentioned above: -x% condition duration) could also be a solution for Gadgeteers.

I feel like while the overlap is there, it’s supposed to allow for a variety of combos. You probably shouldn’t take Rocket Boots and Slick Shoes together but you can do (theoretically) effective combos like:

• Ram, Mine, Shoes

• Mine, Rocket, Goggles

• Ram, Rocket, Goggles

In these set ups you get a damage skill, a gap closer/maker, and a stun break. If SD worked properly with all the tool belt skills DPS wouldn’t be as big of an issue. Depending on what setup you use you’ll either have steady DPS or a more bursty role. The current SD builds got damage but generally fail in terms of sustain which if you want something to be viable in this meta is a must.

Without invulnerability or stealth gadgets are going to have to rely on boons like Medi Guards.

Maybe we could see a new trait someday that reduces condi duration for each Gadget equipped.

While of course there are combos I’d argue that the overlapp might be due to the lack of condensed skill purpose rather than the option to combo. I also want to point out that I was mostly talking about the Toolbelt skill. Launch Battering Ram is a sole SD device which is extremly poor game design. Rocket Kick is quite similar. Super Speed wouldn’t be used if it didn’t get the stun breaker.

My point being: While there might be combos you can pull off with those Gadgets there most certainly is room for improvement. This could either happen through fusing skills (e.g. Rocket Boots and Slick Shoes) or revisiting certain Toolbelt skills. The utility part of Gadgets is fine in general. At least from my point of view.

On a different note: I’d refrain from balancing Gadgets around Static Discharge. While it has to be taken into consideration it is not exclusive to Gadgets. It should be fixed but you got to keep in mind that other Toolbelt skills will benefit as well. I’d also argue that an Adept trait shouldn’t have such a great impact on a whole utility group especially if it is not exclusively affecting them.

I think gadgets are good in their own right. The issue is with needing utilities to pull the weight of a second weapon set. What is needed to make gadgets viable is a second weapon set or kits strong enough to need only one.

We can be fairly certain neither will happen, so the issue is back to making gadgets on par with a weapon set. The low amount of usable time and limited effects are what holds gadgets back as many of the suggestions have shown.

I would like the distance of rocket kick to be increased.

Honestly, I have no idea what would help Gadgets. Gadgeteer is just odd if you think about it. Why would such a boon-heavy trait be in the Tools traitline and not the Alchemy traitline?? If I could change anything from the engy, it’d be a semi-large reworking of our traits. Honestly, I think that some of them are so rediculously weak or in totally the wrong place that you really have to wonder. Coated Bullets/Firearms traits in general, that Grandmaster that drops a Smoke Bomb when cc’d, and Gadgeteer all fall into this. A good trait enhances what something is good at or changes the way skills are used, like Grenader, H.G.H., and Elixer-Infused Bombs (though that last one needs a buff).

2 things:
~ make toolbelt skills count as gadgets (like elixir TB skills)
~ better/longer boons.

(Btw protection on AED sounds horrible. I want to take damage to get big heal, not reduce it.)

BurrTheKing.8571:

You’re right about the protection, however Stability doesn’t really help much either. I mean it’s primary use is for stomping or denying follow up control. I don’t see you getting much use out of that.

Why would you alienate 95% of the engineer community by restricting this to a spvp context? This would greatly benefit the WvW community and be handy in PvE, yet you argue against it simply because it doesn’t benefit the current sPvP meta?

The V is spot on in my opinion, about having gadget traits effecting the tool belt aspect.

the largest prolem, as I see it, is that the lack of weapon was designed into the profession to work with kits, which I enjoy. The problem that causes though, is that for each kit used, a large percent of trait investment in gadgets becomes negated, because they effect less utilities due to the slotted kit(s).

Alot of changes were also brought up here.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Engineer-SPVP-Gadget-Meta-Suggestion/first

Along with the many other threads of course.

Stability on AED fits quite a few purposes, getting a stomp under enemy fire, getting a res under enemy fire, running into enemys to apply damage in a reliable manor, utilizing the stability to ensure you eat enough damage to get the big heal.

They are simply too weak compare to kits. Imo easiest way how make them viable is basicly make new kit from all five.

ukuni.8745:

Stability on AED fits quite a few purposes, getting a stomp under enemy fire, getting a res under enemy fire, running into enemys to apply damage in a reliable manor, utilizing the stability to ensure you eat enough damage to get the big heal.

You still wouldn’t be able to deny follow up control skills because A.E.D has a cast time. With it being on Slick Shoes You can either pop both the tool belt skill and the utility to both break the control and deny a follow up or you just eat the first one while again denying the follow up.

While it wouldn’t be useless on A.E.D there are plenty of enemies in ANY game mode that have the ability to chain control skills which means you would be totally out of luck in those situations.

EDIT: In fact, it makes even more sense from a getting a res standpoint to have it on Slick Shoes because you can use the active and surround your teammate with oil so they can’t stomp w/o stab themselves.

BurrTheKing.8571:

ukuni.8745:

Stability on AED fits quite a few purposes, getting a stomp under enemy fire, getting a res under enemy fire, running into enemys to apply damage in a reliable manor, utilizing the stability to ensure you eat enough damage to get the big heal.

You still wouldn’t be able to deny follow up control skills because A.E.D has a cast time. With it being on Slick Shoes You can either pop both the tool belt skill and the utility to both break the control and deny a follow up or you just eat the first one while again denying the follow up.

While it wouldn’t be useless on A.E.D there are plenty of enemies in ANY game mode that have the ability to chain control skills which means you would be totally out of luck in those situations.

EDIT: In fact, it makes even more sense from a getting a res standpoint to have it on Slick Shoes because you can use the active and surround your teammate with oil so they can’t stomp w/o stab themselves.

By that logic lets just not buff anything and stick with healing turret

ukuni.8745:

BurrTheKing.8571:

ukuni.8745:

Stability on AED fits quite a few purposes, getting a stomp under enemy fire, getting a res under enemy fire, running into enemys to apply damage in a reliable manor, utilizing the stability to ensure you eat enough damage to get the big heal.

You still wouldn’t be able to deny follow up control skills because A.E.D has a cast time. With it being on Slick Shoes You can either pop both the tool belt skill and the utility to both break the control and deny a follow up or you just eat the first one while again denying the follow up.

While it wouldn’t be useless on A.E.D there are plenty of enemies in ANY game mode that have the ability to chain control skills which means you would be totally out of luck in those situations.

EDIT: In fact, it makes even more sense from a getting a res standpoint to have it on Slick Shoes because you can use the active and surround your teammate with oil so they can’t stomp w/o stab themselves.

By that logic lets just not buff anything and stick with healing turret

They can swap it to a long lasting Vigor which gets you sustain you can still take advantage of after the A.E.D ticks down. I’m not sure what Rocket Boots would get, but someone did suggest Swiftness and have it make you launch yourself farther.

Gadgets need better traits! Gadget traits are just the worst! Vee Wee runs a gadget build sometimes and doesn’t take any gadget traits! Because gadget traits are just the worst! Also Personal Battering Ram needs a buff! Range is too short! AED is also very bad! One of the worst heals in the game! All other gadgets are ok! Slick Shoes might even be too strong! The cooldown should’ve been reduced to 45 seconds but the stunbreak was fine!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

PS Vee Wee supports all gadget buffs! #gadgetmeta2014 #gadgetmeta2015