Guild Wars 2

So, the patch: fast approaching.

We’ve heard a few promises for the class: rebalancing some traits (e.g., HGH has been explicitly called out), some speedups, improvements to speed-increasing skills, kits will probably be able to interact with weapon sigils, and if we’re very lucky and the devs had time we may see weapon stats interacting with kits. And that’s great news, and we’re grateful to the devs for taking our feedback and paying attention.

But, the big question is: will these things actually make the engineer a competitive and well-rounded class? Do you think that any of the fundamental problems of the class (low mobility in a mobility dominated game; melee-range focus with few options non-turtle options for high durability vs. bursts; over-reliance on the alchemy tree to the point where many utility skills are pointless (e.g., Elixir B vs. every gadget); poor duration making condition application a dicey prospect, thus weakening pistol; weakness of knockback cc in PvE; turret targetting issues; etc) will be mitigated by these changes?

Of course we don’t have a crystals ball that will tell us what the patch notes will say (or what they will actually do), and any improvement is good improvement. But let’s talk long term here: what will actually bring Engineers inline to be as all-around useful as Warriors, Guardians, Theives and Elementalists? What can make the engineer playstyle more versatile and rewarding? What can bring us out of the “go fulltime grenades or fulltime elixir gun or go home?” What can salvage the versatility of the class–which is currently eclipsed by elementalist and warrior?

Turrets without a CD if you pick them up > 50% CD if you blow it up > Full CD if they are destroyed.
With that said; no turret should have more than a 30s CD.

I would love to fit turrets into my PvP\WvW builds but it really hurts when you drop one and the other person runs away: instant waste of a 50s CD for the rocket turret.

Imagine chasing a thief and being able to use the trait to throw your turrets!!
Enjoy the electric net puppies!

Brinson.7289:

Turrets without a CD if you pick them up > 50% CD if you blow it up > Full CD if they are destroyed.
With that said; no turret should have more than a 30s CD.

I agree on this, there should be some leniency when you pick it up or blow it up to defeat an enemy.

Does anyone know if the monster AI has some sort of trigger when you place a turret?
I haven’t studied it but I have noticed when leveling [8 weeks ago] that they will instantly switch off you and nuke the turret.
Does anything control this; such as armour value or spike DPS done by the turret?

Would be nice if there was a way to prevent instant turret destruction by bosses. Always a funny sight when every turret dropped by the supply crate is instantly destroyed by one AoE.

KirinDave.6451:

will these things actually make the engineer a competitive and well-rounded class?

Sorry, but the engineer already is competitive. It is very arguably the most well rounded class, based on its various diversity.

low mobility in a mobility dominated game

We have 100% swiftness up time through multiple ways. Are you sure you played an engineer before making this thread?

melee-range focus with few options non-turtle options for high durability

We can use 1050 ranged pistols with a shield that has 900 rang attacks. So I am not sure why your making these inaccurate statements.

KirinDave.6451:

But let’s talk long term here: what will actually bring Engineers inline to be as all-around useful as Warriors, Guardians, Theives and Elementalists?

Perhaps developing a concept of the engineer class itself, would help with this more then anything. A vast majority of how you described the class demonstrates a very lacking understanding of the class as a whole.

coglin.1496:

KirinDave.6451:

will these things actually make the engineer a competitive and well-rounded class?

Sorry, but the engineer already is competitive. It is very arguably the most well rounded class, based on its various diversity.

Name a class, I will show you a class guide written by someone very good at that class calling them “the jack of all trades.” Even thief. Engineer is not particularly diverse.

coglin.1496:

We have 100% swiftness up time through multiple ways. Are you sure you played an engineer before making this thread?

100% swiftness uptime is not high mobility. And there is more to “mobility” than your sprinting speed. A lot of very good abilities force us to stay in one local otherwise we eat a bad cooldown.

So yes, low mobility. How many leap abilities do we have again? Just checking. How many faster-than-sprint moves? How many teleports? Even rifle 5 is slower in many circumstances.

coglin.1496:

We can use 1050 ranged pistols with a shield that has 900 rang attacks. So I am not sure why your making these inaccurate statements.

Pistol damage is pretty bad except in PvE when mobs clump up. See prior posts by Casia in this forum for a breakdown. People take rifle, but then they don’t have access to the shield, which is actually a very very good pair of skills.

So I’m not sure why you’re calling it inaccurate.

KirinDave.6451:

100% swiftness uptime is not high mobility. And there is more to “mobility” than your sprinting speed. A lot of very good abilities force us to stay in one local otherwise we eat a bad cooldown.

Your not even making sense. To sit here and openly claim that 33% speed boost avaliable 100% of the time is “not” mobility? How can you make such illogical comments and expect to be taken seriously?

“A lot” of our abilities require use to stay in “one local”? Your just making stuff up now.

As far as casia’s post. See other post pointing out haw nearly every post casia makes omits numbers almost every time, uses inaccurate numbers, or actually does the math incorrectly.

What does someone making a guide for other classes have to do with anything? Engineer has similar guides.

I think he’s referring to turrets as far as the ‘staying in one locale or eat a bad cooldown’ thing goes – which is funny, because last time I checked, turrets kinda sucked…and this is coming from somebody who almost exclusively used them from the time he could get them to 80 and onward, only switching to kits upon getting to Orr and watching a Risen Knight one-shot four turrets simultaneously. Not ‘very good’ abilities at all, unless you can manage to get one regular mook to run into a mob of them.

What would it take to make us competitive (in tPvP)?

1) More condition removal options. At the moment, our only truly effective condition removal is on Elixir C and/or Cleaning Formula 409. Med Kit has a half-hearted removal, which is impossible to use when you are immobilised, and elixir gun has an okay combo removal with light field but it gimps your attack while using it. I really would like to see a viable Gadget-based condition removal.

2) A bit less ground targeting. I’m not talking grenades here. I mostly feel ground-targeting is holding me back with various tool belt skills. I’d very much like to see a “target at feet” option or “target at target’s feet” option to improve fluidity of our combat, particularly around nodes where camera direction and combatant positions change rapidly.

3) Some tuning of a couple of our abilities would help. For example, rocket boots need to penalise the engineer less to make them a viable escape.

Other than these 3 things, I don’t think we are that far from being a competitive class. My problem is that we don’t shine in any role. Bunkering is done better by elementalists and guardians, DPSing is done better by mesmers, warriors and thieves, and node flipping is done better by mesmers and necros.

We need to be up there with the best at one role.

Hey I use turrets! OHHHHHH you meant DROP turrets. No sorry I don’t do that. I only use the the toolbelt skill so I can trigger Static Discharge every 8 seconds. =)

coglin.1496:

KirinDave.6451:

100% swiftness uptime is not high mobility. And there is more to “mobility” than your sprinting speed. A lot of very good abilities force us to stay in one local otherwise we eat a bad cooldown.

Your not even making sense. To sit here and openly claim that 33% speed boost avaliable 100% of the time is “not” mobility?

Most classes can have very high uptime on swiftness. In WvW, most prioritize that (or make sure to keep a speed boost on). Swiftness in general will also become less valuable after tonight for many classes as runspeed signets will all be bumped to 25%.

What’s more, other classes have better positioning abilities. Why is a thief so mobile? Multiple teleports (including one based on initiative from shortbow) in addition to access to good duration swiftness, and 25% runspeed boosts when they’re not. Why is an Elementalist so mobile? Perma-swiftness, multiple teleports and a very long-distance dash, and the ability to shrug off multiple conditions rapidly.

As it stands the only class less mobile than the Engineer is arguably the Necromancer. And that’s mostly because of the weird slow speed on Dark Path (which would not make them more mobile over a distance, but would let them do a lot more tricky stuff in tactical engagements).

Have a footrace with either class; you will not beat them in a sprint, nor in a marathon, even as you flip your medkit around your neck like a hula hoop.

coglin.1496:

“A lot” of our abilities require use to stay in “one local”? Your just making stuff up now.

Did my tablet correct “locale” to “local?” My bad, sorry about that. Turrets. You know, part of what you pop your elite for? They could use some improved effects, but actually a turret nest is a surprisingly powerful thing. Turret nesters exist as bunkers in tPvPs and while they’re not too popular, they can be very effective on some maps where the terrain keeps the turrets safe from random AoEs.

coglin.1496:

As far as casia’s post. See other post pointing out haw nearly every post casia makes omits numbers almost every time, uses inaccurate numbers, or actually does the math incorrectly.

I do not agree with every conclusion Casia draws, but I firmly agree that Pistol damage is inferior to Rifle damage. It’s high school math, and Rifle has superior burst; which is important for actually downing people.

coglin.1496:

What does someone making a guide for other classes have to do with anything?

Everyone seems to misinterpret their class as a “jack of all trades,” and acts like this is a unique condition their class must suffer. But it’s not, and most every class is, by design, trying to have many options.This idea that Engineer is more versatile somehow than other classes is something I am skeptical of. I feel much more versatile on the battlefield with my Warrior or Elementalist, and one of those is not even at L80 yet.

You saying, “We’re so versatile…” is just more of that same misapprehension.

I’m not sure why people are arguing Engineer is okay in its current state. Clearly the devs don’t think so. Up until now we’ve been suffering outright incompleteness when we log into them. It’s one of the least played classes in all venues. These are not the signs of a successful design.

Liquid.9672:

Hey I use turrets! OHHHHHH you meant DROP turrets. No sorry I don’t do that. I only use the the toolbelt skill so I can trigger Static Discharge every 8 seconds. =)

Yeah that’s the sad truth. The rifle turret exists solely for its toolbelt skill. Until recently, the same was true of the toolkit. Then they made Magnet awesome and that all changed. Let’s hope the same happens with the rifle turret.