Why am I easily killed by thief in WVW?

Why am I easily killed by thief in WVW?

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Posted by: Fos.4185

Fos.4185

No matter it’s a grenade condition build, SD tool kit build or FT straight damage build.

They just suddenly pop up and daze, immobile, then chop chop chop in 3 seconds and I died. If I’m lucky to have the time to put up my shield to block or the fight turns to be unfavored to them they just stealth and run, then come back in around 30 secs and repeat the above.

I checked the combat logs and they can do 6k damage with cloak and dagger? not to mention heartseeker when you are in low health.

I used to wear full PPCrit% gear with FT and can hit 4K crit damage in the last hit. I wonder how could that 6K damage to be done?

Fos Ossa (Human Engineer)
The Friends of Voltaire [TFV]
Dragonbrand

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Posted by: Creld.8702

Creld.8702

Right, first, you’re basically nude if you’re running full PPC gear.

As for flamethrower damage, you do a total of 4k damage over the entire channel, not per hit, making the numbers somewhat deceptive. Thieves have great bursts and escapes, and can get away with being glass cannons because of it, while we engies need to have some measure of toughness in order to mitigate those 6k crits down to survivable numbers.

If you’re looking for a good balance of damage and survivability, elixir/‘nade/condition build is generally the way to go, with mostly rabid gear if you can find it. Trade HGH for 409 so you have plenty of condition removal (4 from elixirs, 1 or 2 from heal), and just pile on the toughness. You may not see the huge numbers, but you’ll be able to drive back those pesky thieves that see an engies as free loot.

Asura Engineer- Aelara Fole

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Posted by: BlueCynder.5941

BlueCynder.5941

Try placing AOE on yourself and then dodging away. Use Glue Shot if you are running pistol/pistol. For grenades try Flash Grenade and Freeze Grenade and then try to put distance.
If the thief goes into stealth give it a couple seconds and then place aoe/dodge or swap it.

Most Thieves are built for being glass cannon and dealing extremely high damage. The downside is if they don’t down someone almost right away, the fight usually turns badly for them. One mistake and its pretty much over.

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Posted by: Shanks R Us.2489

Shanks R Us.2489

Never stop moving, dodge a lot. Try to not let your health go very low. If you can, time their stealth, predict how long it takes them from the start of their stealth [when refuge ends, or when the smoke field wears off. Most thieves will hop back & forth between their smoke field to chain stealth, otherwise it doesn’t last long] and think about how long it takes for them to walk to you. Throw down box of nails, gear shield, or dodge. If you’re low and he dazes you [with venom] & you think you’ll die, pop your elixir S.

Zane The Clever – Asuran Engineer
Roaming Video 3Roaming Video 41v7 in WvW with engineer

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Posted by: Yamsandjams.3267

Yamsandjams.3267

To answer your question directly, it’s because you’re using berserker’s gear. That is the “glass cannon” type build, so if you’re going to fight a thief with it on you better be able to burst them like they burst you.

Traits like protective shield can also help mitigate the burst. It’s likely the thief has a high crit chance, so you can take 33% off their burst with the instantaneous protection. But if you’re in glass canon gear then it still might not matter than much.

You can also try running things like elixir S or elixir R for a convenient stun break, and either avoid their burst with invlun or have a self-rez that you can use to counter their stealth stomping.

Alternatively, you can run a static discharge build if you want to run around in that berserker’s gear. I’ve used this in WvW before, and you can put thieves into a complete state of panic when they fight you since you can kill them in two seconds. Using such a build will rely on you having a good engage though, which can be tricky against a thief, but you only need one opening. But if you can catch them slightly off guard, they look like they’re little kids playing that have a completely lack of motor skills.

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Posted by: Eviator.9746

Eviator.9746

I’m sure the advice above is valid, but it misses the mark. I run a rather tanky build which emphasizes toughness, vitality, and healing power as stats, plus traits that give me defensive bonuses when bad things happen, plus utilities that give me blocks and CCs, and some escapes, plus a bunch of different ways to heal myself. It doesn’t have all that much offense to put pressure on anyone, but pretty much any other profession and build I can survive indefinitely, assuming similar skill.

And guess what: if a berzerker thief (except the very bad ones) wants me dead while I’m solo roaming, and I’m not close to a tower, keep, or friendly players, I’m as good as dead eventually. I can hold off his attack for a while, forcing him to stealth and heal and come back a few times. But once I make one little mistake or the right skill just happens to be on cooldown, I’m done for. It’s what thieves are built for. On some level I’m actually okay with it. At the small scale it just seems unfair because he can win the fight and I cannot. But at the macro level, he is one person on the server and so am I, so it’s not a major impact on the map.

Sheldor the Eidetic (Group Engi) | Shorty McShinkicker (Solo Engi) |Turanga (Solo Mes)
Doing what I can for DB during EU primetime

(edited by Eviator.9746)

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Posted by: Yamsandjams.3267

Yamsandjams.3267

It’s sure not as easy as these folks are indicating. I run a rather tanky build which emphasizes toughness, vitality, and healing power as stats, plus traits that give me defensive bonuses when bad things happen, plus utilities that give me blocks and CCs, and some escapes, plus a bunch of different ways to heal myself. And guess what: if a berzerker thief wants me dead while I’m solo roaming, and I’m not close to a tower, keep, or friendly players, I’m as good as dead eventually. I can hold off his attack for a while, forcing him to stealth and heal and come back a few times. But once I make one little mistake or the right skill just happens to be on cooldown, I’m done for. It’s what thieves are built for. On some level I’m actually okay with it. At the small scale it just seems unfair because he can win the fight and I cannot. But at the macro level, he is one person on the server and so am I, so it’s not a major impact on the map.

I used to run a similar-style build in my earlier days. The facts when it came to thieves is that I simply had no way to kill them, meaning if one was on my butt I just had to play it smart and not get frustrated. Not dying in this scenario is actually more of a victory than you think, because the thief likely believes they “should” be able to kill you and won’t be satisfied if they don’t.

If you’re near your NPCs, just run towards them. This might seem like chickening out, but it’s not. It’s playing the map to your advantage. If your deep in enemy territory, well good luck XD

It used to be that you could get them to kill themselves on confusions and retaliation, but that’s difficult for tank-style builds to do now since the damage nerfs on both those. Even still, toolkit will be a very handy utility in such a situation.

You can also try jumping in the lake if you’re in one of the borderlands. Thieves don’t have the same amount of stealth or escape options in water, and engg can hit surprisingly hard down there. This can make some of them back off since they’re reliant on their stealth to do things. If the krait start harassing them, that can cause a lot of trouble for them.

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Posted by: Penguin.5197

Penguin.5197

As others have said you basically need more toughness to deal with thieves. Maybe placing a mine on your feet might help you survive if you know they are coming, and I found that scatter mines can help you track them if they step on it. Plus they can do some good damage on zerker gear.

Also, running around with zerkers gear on a class that can’t stealth is really risky, you have to know what you are doing to survive.

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Posted by: AryasRevenge.3175

AryasRevenge.3175

Most thiefs are predictable, once they go invis i can do two things, drop nails/glue shot/bombs around me, or start running with gear sheild ready and hit them with crowbar when they pop up.
However when they have perma stealth i can honestly say perma stealth IS OP, not to mention being able to finish a player while invisible.

One thing you should notice is that when they go invisible most of the times they try to hit you from behind.

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Posted by: timidobserver.7925

timidobserver.7925

Use toolkit gear shield and elixir s to block thief burst.

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Posted by: Eviator.9746

Eviator.9746

Use toolkit gear shield and elixir s to block thief burst.

Yep. Then die 10 seconds later.

Sheldor the Eidetic (Group Engi) | Shorty McShinkicker (Solo Engi) |Turanga (Solo Mes)
Doing what I can for DB during EU primetime

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Posted by: Velron.3729

Velron.3729

You just need practice man, you can get plenty in hot join sPVP since thieves are rampant in there. Purposely be on opposing teams from thieves and fight them. They can definitely be countered, its to the point where I laugh at most thieves who attempt to kill my Engi.

Fragg – Engineer | Lil Zek – Warrior PVP R43
[DA] Decisive Actions – Jade Quarry

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Posted by: Kawloon Fuathach.3807

Kawloon Fuathach.3807

While it’s not really all that viable, the Trait “Cloaking Device” down the Inventions tree is actually quite fun to use against builds like these that utilize Immobilize to lock in you place while they burst you down. It doesn’t protect you from them wildly swinging, but it can sometimes give you that moment of pause while they try to figure out where you went so you can actually prep to counter them.

Wilhelm The Pursuer

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Posted by: Heiltdo.2891

Heiltdo.2891

Net Turret, bombs, and mines, tho a WvW roamer doesn’t have mines with him, the turret messes up their rotation.

Also don’t fight a thief 1v1 in WvW. Thief can maintain their main defense while still being serker.

Shield 5 is good if they are d/d, if they have points in shadow arts don’t even bother, just log out and come back in

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Posted by: Soon.5240

Soon.5240

Thieves ARE hard for Engi’s in a WvW one-on-one situation, so you are hardly alone. Thieves are made to solo.

I think the best advice is use the gear shield when you first encounter one because they will most likely try and hit you with every thing they have to start with.

When you see them stealth in their circle, drop some type of AOE into that circle (nades, Acid Bomb, etc) — and wait a bit. I’ve often found thieves in a downed-state after what seems like 5 seconds or so after dropping an AOE. Used to be that I would try and run away, now I wait with my gear shield ready (again) in case they come back at me.

And not to be a “back in they day” kind of guy… but it used to be MUCH worse. I can remember taking 21k of damage almost instantaneously completely out of the blue. One minute I’m standing and 1 second later I’m at the repair station.

(edited by Soon.5240)

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Posted by: Forestnator.6298

Forestnator.6298

Thiefs are a joke for engi. You must do something really wrong if u got easily killed by thief.

a) solider gear >> berserker gear. Beserker gives u about 70-80% more damage compared to solider, soldier gives u 130-180% more effective health – guess who is winning. Beserker gear is only good if u got burst enougth in combination with some special mechanic (like stealth, clones, …)

b)Supply ulti is duel winner – use it.

c)try prybar in his face – even with full beserker trinkets and only knights armor u should win with some random skills after it.

d) use conditionbuilds. U can gear up very defensive, ascended vita/tougth/cond -trinkets and rabbid armor – I don’t know how any thief can kill u then.

I had some interesting fights at nigth with a thief with tiger emote (level 50+ spvp). He tried out any good thief build to beat my defense HGH grenadier (with named ascendend trinkets). He was able to kill me 3 times in around 60 rounds.

so, e) play defense HGH to beat anyone in this lowbob wvw =)

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Posted by: TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586

Engineers are CC kings , if you’re getting facerolled and you’re telling others how X profession cant win or the inevitable loss against another profession then its clearly your lapse in skill . Don’t try to put the blame on the entire profession when you fail , the mists are out there for a reason and constantly have servers for you to duel players of all spectrums.

TLDR : L2P

I never expect to lose. Even when I’m the Engineer , I still prepare a victory speech.

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Posted by: Eviator.9746

Eviator.9746

I’d like to see videos of you beating thieves who are trying to gank you open field in WvW. Those videos need to show you being taken by surprise, because that’s the problem. I don’t doubt you can do it, I just want to see how it’s done. We L2P losers need some graphical aids sometimes.

Sheldor the Eidetic (Group Engi) | Shorty McShinkicker (Solo Engi) |Turanga (Solo Mes)
Doing what I can for DB during EU primetime

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Posted by: Shanks R Us.2489

Shanks R Us.2489

I’d like to see videos of you beating thieves who are trying to gank you open field in WvW. Those videos need to show you being taken by surprise, because that’s the problem. I don’t doubt you can do it, I just want to see how it’s done. We L2P losers need some graphical aids sometimes.

Happens all the time. I usually win. I don’t run my video 24/7, so I couldn’t show you their initial burst, but most of the clips in my videos that start mid-fight with a thief began with him trying to gank me.

Also, forest, tiger is only 40+ pvp.

Zane The Clever – Asuran Engineer
Roaming Video 3Roaming Video 41v7 in WvW with engineer

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Posted by: GSSBlunaspike.4153

GSSBlunaspike.4153

I’d like to see videos of you beating thieves who are trying to gank you open field in WvW. Those videos need to show you being taken by surprise, because that’s the problem. I don’t doubt you can do it, I just want to see how it’s done. We L2P losers need some graphical aids sometimes.

Don’t hold your breath. I was drawn to this thread by someone else, and reading some of the replies is pretty laughable.

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Posted by: Maskaganda.2043

Maskaganda.2043

I’d like to see videos of you beating thieves who are trying to gank you open field in WvW. Those videos need to show you being taken by surprise, because that’s the problem. I don’t doubt you can do it, I just want to see how it’s done. We L2P losers need some graphical aids sometimes.

most of the times I dont even bother recording those, not gonna press record key half way through a fight :p

it’s still easy enough to fight them tho, only ones giving me trouble are good s/d thieves. or d/p who can just run away. they can’t do much else anyway.

I suggest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4mbYlRiJw for everyone who has problems with thieves.

Tchuu Tchuu I’m a Train – Gandara
engie roaming vids: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9NnXVfY4vRU1F-X7b1Oorw/videos

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Posted by: Aleister Malefic.2549

Aleister Malefic.2549

I’ve never had much trouble with thieves personally. I run zerker armor with melandru runes, and a mix of cavalier and knights accessories. Rifle, grenades, toolkit and elixir s gives me a lot of control options to keep them pinned down long enough for me to put them down. If you have decent toughness and vitality, and can react reasonably fast they aren’t that difficult to survive against.

Magnet pull > crowbar > net shot > blunderbuss > jump shot > overcharged shot > grenade spam = a lot of pain.

Another tip if you run grenades is when they stealth just start spamming your grenade 1 anywhere you think they might be. You won’t see numbers but if you hit them they still take the damage.

Rat A Tat [SG], Asura Engineer
www.JadeQuarry.com

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Posted by: Yamsandjams.3267

Yamsandjams.3267

Yeah, grenades and bomb kit can really help out with dealing with thieves, although I still prefer toolkit. The uncommon mine is actually an effective tool as well, as shown in the video Mask linked… at least the ones that try to melee you. It would throw s/d and d/d thieves off a fair bit though since you’d be able to knock them back fairly frequently. Just plop it down and stand on it. Not sure the CD reduction on mine is working though…

I haven’t experimented with net turret, but it can work well in thief 1v1, although they can use it to chain CnD if they really want and just break it. The AI on the turret might still be able to shoot them in the half second they’re out of stealth though. That assumes you will survive their initial burst and can place it though.

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Posted by: Glog.4275

Glog.4275

HGH/Confusion/Rabid engi here, p/s.

Iv found d/d thieves to be easy marks, just place my crowbar confusion on em and they spam themself to death in matter of a second while i block em for 3 seconds,. Should they get the jump on me bursting, the shield shield 4 kickback or shield 5 daze will stop em in their track. The s/d thieves i havnt had much success with tho, they flip about all over the place and got a constant daze/slow/immobility spam.

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Posted by: JudgeD.5673

JudgeD.5673

I run PVT in WvW for a reason. It’s a lucky thief who hits me for 4k with Backstab.

Typical encounter goes:
Thief goes Backstab+Lotus Strike+etc…
I reply with Supply Crate+Blunderbuss+Overcharged Shot
At that point one of two things happen. Either thief runs off, or….Shadow Refuge.
I get FT out and unload his Shadow Refuge.
He gets on me with C&D, Steal, etc…
I pop FT #5/evade/pop elixirs h and b.
By now thief realizes I’m not an easy kill. Here, he will either stealth and wait for initiative regen/heal or run off.

Using CCs/blind/Net Shot/Net Turret may convince them to leave you alone. For s/d thieves, try Bomb Kit. One BoB may throw them off enough for you to recover immobilize etc.

The Robertsons – Julie, Lyana, Adrian, and Lewis
CrSy/LaWz
Tarnished Coast Server (formerly of Kaineng)

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Posted by: Bull Zooker.1672

Bull Zooker.1672

my favourite memory on engie so far is a lvl 80 p/d thief trying to c’n’d on me to gain stealth and either stunning himself on my shield, picking himself back up after a shield knock down or trying to escape my bombs and toolkit blocks.

granted he wasn’t a good p/d thief but I was lvl 41 at the time and could just sense his frustration.

I didn’t kill him but some friendlies turned up and scared him off <3

Grandad Fester / Unruly Pigeon – Necromancer by trade

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Posted by: TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586

Allowing an upleveled to escape is the pinnacle of frustration lol.

I never expect to lose. Even when I’m the Engineer , I still prepare a victory speech.

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Posted by: Daigle.8497

Daigle.8497

Shield Offhand and Smoke Vent are excellent counters to Thief.

If they have the drop on you, Smoke vent their next few attacks while prepping Static Shield or Toolkit Shield.

If they don’t, wait a few seconds then Static Shield, and promptly start to destroy them.

If they drop a shadow refuge early enough, dive in there and Magnetic Shield them back out, then proceed to kitten on them till they run away.

Overall, try to tag them with confusion, poison and/or burning as an engineer to kill them, and Blinds/Immobilize to survive.

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Posted by: Eviator.9746

Eviator.9746

At one point I was running full soldiers exotics. A full berzerker thief got me for 14k between Mug, CnD, and Backstab. That was shortly before they improved culling, so I wasn’t able to react. And I know Mug has been nerfed since, but it does show that PVT is not the solution to thief burst.

Secondly, I think some people hit the nail on the head that you need to be able to react quickly. So if you’re running from the citadel to bay, you better have your anti-thief abilities ready and waiting just in case.

Thirdly, I mostly encounter D/P thieves and I have a whole bunch of tools in my build to fend them off. But the ones that are persistent, those willing to reset the fight 5 or 6 times, those are the ones that eventually kill me when I inevitably make a mistake. With a thief you are always entering a fight on his terms, not yours. I think that is why engineers are so easily killed by thieves in WvW.

I think my win/loss/draw percentage against solo thieves is 10/30/60. Not very admirable, but most thieves are built specifically for roaming. I’m not. That probably means I shouldn’t be solo roaming, right? Or at least I should expect to lose while doing so. Will I ever learn?

Sheldor the Eidetic (Group Engi) | Shorty McShinkicker (Solo Engi) |Turanga (Solo Mes)
Doing what I can for DB during EU primetime

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Posted by: Punkins.2087

Punkins.2087

break stun, blind, move them, apply confusion, watch them die.

just takes practice.. if you’re dying badly you are just not reacting fast enough.. once i got to know my engy thief literally became lowest threat of all classes 1v1.

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Posted by: Eviator.9746

Eviator.9746

break stun, blind, move them, apply confusion, watch them die.

just takes practice.. if you’re dying badly you are just not reacting fast enough.. once i got to know my engy thief literally became lowest threat of all classes 1v1.

Makes me think I need to try to get more thieves to try to gank me, just so I can practice.

Sheldor the Eidetic (Group Engi) | Shorty McShinkicker (Solo Engi) |Turanga (Solo Mes)
Doing what I can for DB during EU primetime

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Posted by: John Widdin.9618

John Widdin.9618

Honestly, a big part is just recognizing skill animations, and avoiding the one’s you know hurt. That and building to survive the big burst.

I’m personally running full Apoth for the most part. With a basilisk venom opening like some do, I have protection injections mitigate a large chunk of their burst. Play of their weaknesses, and accept if they have half a brain and don’t want to die, they’ll just leave.

I don’t expect to win 100% of the time, but I can usually get them to back off with heavy burning and poison application.

This is what I’m running.

Attachments:

Zachary ~ Mesmer/ John Widdin ~ Warrior/ Zazmataz ~ Engineer
Maguuma – [TriM][DERP]

(edited by John Widdin.9618)

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Posted by: TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586

At one point I was running full soldiers exotics. A full berzerker thief got me for 14k between Mug, CnD, and Backstab. That was shortly before they improved culling, so I wasn’t able to react. And I know Mug has been nerfed since, but it does show that PVT is not the solution to thief burst.

Secondly, I think some people hit the nail on the head that you need to be able to react quickly. So if you’re running from the citadel to bay, you better have your anti-thief abilities ready and waiting just in case.

Thirdly, I mostly encounter D/P thieves and I have a whole bunch of tools in my build to fend them off. But the ones that are persistent, those willing to reset the fight 5 or 6 times, those are the ones that eventually kill me when I inevitably make a mistake. With a thief you are always entering a fight on his terms, not yours. I think that is why engineers are so easily killed by thieves in WvW.

I think my win/loss/draw percentage against solo thieves is 10/30/60. Not very admirable, but most thieves are built specifically for roaming. I’m not. That probably means I shouldn’t be solo roaming, right? Or at least I should expect to lose while doing so. Will I ever learn?

I’d recommend you to stick with the zerg and spam 1 or simply find you a roaming team of 5 competent players because that ratio is horrid. You’ll definitely learn in do time , Engie is and always will be one of those classes you can’t just pick up and play and perform to its full potential lol (prob can say this about all classes except thief)

I never expect to lose. Even when I’m the Engineer , I still prepare a victory speech.

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Posted by: Eviator.9746

Eviator.9746

I’d recommend you to stick with the zerg and spam 1 or simply find you a roaming team of 5 competent players because that ratio is horrid. You’ll definitely learn in do time , Engie is and always will be one of those classes you can’t just pick up and play and perform to its full potential lol (prob can say this about all classes except thief)

Sadly, it’s been my main since BWE1

I’m a kind of an alt-o-holic, plus I get maybe 10 hours per week to play, so I haven’t really spent all that much time fighting non-NPCs. It doesn’t help that I’m on Dragonbrand, which is zergs during its primetime, and a ghost town against enemy zergs outside of primetime. And it doesn’t help that I’m a group support spec but all of my gaming buddies are addicted to LoL right now.

Lately I’ve been seeking out small and solo fights just to see what happens. I usually end up clicking on a waypoint.

Sheldor the Eidetic (Group Engi) | Shorty McShinkicker (Solo Engi) |Turanga (Solo Mes)
Doing what I can for DB during EU primetime

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Posted by: Dolt.2731

Dolt.2731

As time goes on you will be able (hopefully) to identify what skill they use to stealth. From this you’ll get a feel for how long they have to act before stealth wears off. This gives you tremendous anticipation on when to block/ dodge etc… as a smart thief (in most circumstances) will wait as long as they can for initiative to recover before jumping back in.

Also hopping into spvp matches could help. Not only can you grind out dailies but there is an asinine amount of thieves to fight against.

Ebenezer Smee, Ranger SBI

(edited by Dolt.2731)

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Posted by: Karast.1927

Karast.1927

unless if your in a tanky 1v1 dueling build or catch the theif off-guard you are always going to be a free to kill even a half good thief if they are 1v1 spec’d which most of them are.

Even when you do have the right build if your fighting a decent theif you will never take them down in WvW. They have the tools to reset the fight as many times as they want, if they make a mistake or if the fight doesn’t go their way.

Simply put they are monsters in small scale.

They really have to bin it for you to win, if it is a good thief.

That being said if you are solo roaming, or just running around solo till you get to a group / zerg.

You always want some kind of condi removal, a solid stun break (elixir S or R), and potentionally a turret.

If your fighting a newb heartseaker spammer turrets can eat them alive, as long as you break the initial stun and channel a block / dodge.

When I am solo I tend to run SD rifle with med kit, tool kit, rifle turret, and utility goggles, with kit refinement you get either quickness or projectile reflect ontop of the tool kit block, and 10 sec of blind immunity. If you see them coming you can drop a few med packs and then do box of nails + rifle turret. 2-3 med packs and make or break the fight.

It is good against p/p, d/p, and s/p theives, and okay against d/d. But s/d suck, and there is no reliable way to catch them if they swap to SB and teleport away to reset and comeback.

Thats the big problem you face, they will hit you, and you have to burn your CD’s and possibly elite to stay alive, they then break off reset and come back when the bulk of your abilities are on CD.

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Posted by: lunyboy.8672

lunyboy.8672

Protection Injection: Gain protection for 3 seconds whenever you are disabled. (stun, daze, knockdown, knockback, launch, float, sink, fear). This effect can trigger once every 5 seconds.

Protective Shield: Gain protection for 3 seconds when you are hit with a critical attack 20 second cooldown.

Add on the +30% duration from the alchemy line and toss on runes of the forge, or runes of earth and you can worry less about thieves getting the drop on you.

Supply crate > Shields > confusion > blind > immobilize…

And then if you have the bomb kit, stealth stomp them for a little added trolling.

Miss Fisthammer – Engineer | Urgard Fistorsen – Guardian
Physti – Elementalist | Fistful of Blades – Thief
[WHIP] Quaggan Slavers – HoD

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Posted by: nakoda.4213

nakoda.4213

unless if your in a tanky 1v1 dueling build or catch the theif off-guard you are always going to be a free to kill even a half good thief if they are 1v1 spec’d which most of them are.

false.

Boundaries are for the effortless.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.

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Posted by: Denwic.2607

Denwic.2607

Engineers are CC kings

sorry, Guardians are the kings of CC easily

Denwic – Level 80 Engineer – Gates of Fabulousness

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Posted by: Thorson.9218

Thorson.9218

To the OP, roll a Thief and learn how the class works. They bugged the pooh out of me as well, so I rolled one, ended up leveling them to 80, 60 of those levels coming in WvW so I could really understand the class mechanics and dynamics in that environment. It was eye opening (and a bit sad….Anet wants the Thief to be the “apex predator” in WvW and have given them the tools to be just that, even in the hands of a total neophyte).

Based on my experience with both an 80 engie and 80 thief (among other 80’s….sheesh, I need help, lol), many of the suggestions here are right on. The second a Thief ganks you for that opening 6k+ burst, you need to respond. Drop your SC elite to stun them, get some health, and get some distance. If you’re p/p, lay on the condis and start your CC skills (glue shot/glue bomb, BoB….anything to ensure that once they break your SC stun, they can’t get in a quick BS). This should turn the tide for you from 100% defensive to offensive. Don’t run!!!! Showing him your back is giving him a free kill. Thief gap closers are just too available (HS FTW anyone?).

If they Shadow Refuge, remember, they have to stay in that shadow refuge to stack stealth. They can’t just SR and poof they’re gone for 12 secs. They have to sit in there. Use that to your advantage. Pull them to you then prybar to the face, or FT the area, or grenade the area. They’ll take a load of damage and then THEY will be on the defensive (“OMG I didn’t instagib that engie….RUN!!!!!!”).

Between an engies CC and CD, you should be able to hold your own against a Thief with some practice. Worst case they’ll realize you’re not a free kill and just move on, best case you’ll start obtaining a taste for Thief-burgers. ;-)

Come to us, you foes, and bring your flock.
For we will crush your bones on the Anvil Rock!

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Posted by: lunyboy.8672

lunyboy.8672


If you’re p/p, lay on the condis and start your CC skills (glue shot/glue bomb, BoB….anything to ensure that once they break your SC stun…

100% in agreement with this post, but a quick parley to pedantry; Only supply crate of the skills you mention is a stun and actually considered a “control” skill. Immobilize, like glue shot and glue bomb both confer “Immobilized” which is a condition.

This essentially means that if you use condition duration bonuses, they will affect the movement conditions, immobilize, crippled, and chilled.

Movement is very important to thieves, take it away from them.

Miss Fisthammer – Engineer | Urgard Fistorsen – Guardian
Physti – Elementalist | Fistful of Blades – Thief
[WHIP] Quaggan Slavers – HoD

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Posted by: Punny.9210

Punny.9210

lol a lot of useless stuffs here

here’s from my experience in t1 / t2 over a year. there are 2 or 3 situations

1. u know he’s coming this is very easy because u can prepare

2. he hits u out of no where and u didn’t sense any of him before. this one is very very hard to pull off. a good thief from top guild here can knock u to 10 – 20% health in 2 shots. the only solution is be aware all the time, if u wanna rest … do it in keep or among npcs.

3. this one is deadly when there are 2 of them of even more roaming together. imagine one of them can knock u to 20% in 2 hits how about 2 or even 3 ?

basically if u plan to stay far away from ur keep. u have to pay attention all the time. think a head of the way to run back too. if they run i would say dont bother chasing them u run back to reset ur CD in ur keep.

Blackgate

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Posted by: lunyboy.8672

lunyboy.8672

…a good thief from top guild here can knock u to 10 – 20% health in 2 shots…

If you run around in zerk gear, with no mitigation, no auto-procs, and no back up, yes. If you pay attention the information in this thread about build, skills, traits, training and strategies, they can keep you alive and even allow you to kill thieves.

I rarely lose to thieves 1v1, it happens, but not often.

Miss Fisthammer – Engineer | Urgard Fistorsen – Guardian
Physti – Elementalist | Fistful of Blades – Thief
[WHIP] Quaggan Slavers – HoD

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Posted by: Punny.9210

Punny.9210

well what i mentioned was they hit u out of nowhere. so basically they hit directly 2 hits on you without any buff or skill on. when u realize they are on u ur hp are down a lot now.

that’s why i said to be aware all the time when u r far away from keep.

Blackgate

(edited by Punny.9210)

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Posted by: lunyboy.8672

lunyboy.8672

well what i mentioned was they hit u out of nowhere. so basically they hit directly 2 hits on you without any buff or skill on.

that’s why i said to be aware all the time when u r far away from keep.

If you look at the traits I posted, you will see that you can already reduce your damage after 1 crit using a 10 point trait. Add to this Runes, likes the ones I mentioned and increase the chance of mitigation, and with auto procs like elixir B at 75%, elixir S at 20% etc., you will increase your survival chances quite a bit.

So you will be buffed… automatically. Runes of the forge trigger protection at 50% health, so you could have ~16 seconds of protection or more just by getting critically hit twice.

Miss Fisthammer – Engineer | Urgard Fistorsen – Guardian
Physti – Elementalist | Fistful of Blades – Thief
[WHIP] Quaggan Slavers – HoD

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Posted by: Eviator.9746

Eviator.9746

So my matchup has occasional fight clubs, so I jumped on my solo-roaming-specced engineer (Mask’s build). Not surprisingly a lot of thieves were there too. I lost all of a handful of fights against thieves (no problem against mesmer and warrior). I got a D/P thief down very low, but he kited me long enough to get his initiative back and finish me off. There was this other thief that was able to keep me dazed for half the fight. And boy he was able to continually get behind me so all my skills missed…that was annoying. Is that S/P? He kicked my butt pretty good.

Sheldor the Eidetic (Group Engi) | Shorty McShinkicker (Solo Engi) |Turanga (Solo Mes)
Doing what I can for DB during EU primetime

(edited by Eviator.9746)

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Posted by: Punny.9210

Punny.9210

it sounds like he just out played u bro

Blackgate

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Posted by: Eviator.9746

Eviator.9746

it sounds like he just out played u bro

Check my sig…of course he outplayed me. It’s unfortunate that thieves are the only profession that seems to give me trouble.

Sheldor the Eidetic (Group Engi) | Shorty McShinkicker (Solo Engi) |Turanga (Solo Mes)
Doing what I can for DB during EU primetime

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Posted by: Thorson.9218

Thorson.9218

So my matchup has occasional fight clubs, so I jumped on my solo-roaming-specced engineer (Mask’s build). Not surprisingly a lot of thieves were there too. I lost all of a handful of fights against thieves (no problem against mesmer and warrior). I got a D/P thief down very low, but he kited me long enough to get his initiative back and finish me off. There was this other thief that was able to keep me dazed for half the fight. And boy he was able to continually get behind me so all my skills missed…that was annoying. Is that S/P? He kicked my butt pretty good.

Do you mean Blinded, or do you really mean Dazed? If Blinded, then yes, that would likely be D/P, which is a kitten build to deal with. With SS and BP (skill 3 and 5) they can keep you blinded for a very long time. Best bet is to AOE, but I don’t know your engie build so can’t give you advice there.

Also, depending on how the Thief is built, they typically don’t have a ton of condi removal (on their bar they can have Shadowstep on a 50 sec cooldown and that’s about it), so lay the condis on at the start of the fight (super easy if you’re p/p) and make sure you keep condi pressure on them by reapplying. It’s hard for them to kite you when they’re downed from all the CD that engies can apply. ;-)

Come to us, you foes, and bring your flock.
For we will crush your bones on the Anvil Rock!

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Posted by: Eviator.9746

Eviator.9746

Dazed like all of my skills go on what seems like a 2 second cooldown.

I’ve fought several thieves today and I’m starting to get the hang of it, though I have yet to beat one in the past week. I think the thing that’s hurting me most is that my skills rarely land due to stealth, skill-based mobility (shadow step, evades), CCs (blind or dazed) , or of course dodges. Things tend to go much better when I can use Supply Crate to interrupt and imobilize them (net turret). Crippling them slows them down a bit, but they seem to recover from that quickly. Anyway, my current builds don’t really give me a bounty of tools to CC the thief, and I think that’s my main issue right now.

Sheldor the Eidetic (Group Engi) | Shorty McShinkicker (Solo Engi) |Turanga (Solo Mes)
Doing what I can for DB during EU primetime