Guild Wars 2

I mean this as a serious topic.

The engineer is a very balanced and useful class in almost all situations, but there seem to be far too few people playing it.

Why?

Is this because there is something inherently uninteresting about the lore, style, look, etc.? (Yes I know hobo sacks annoy people but is that the root cause, really?)

Likewise, there seems to be so little understanding of engineers. For example, I have commanders amazed that an engineer can provide water fields or can quickly provide a quick group stealth to get folks inside a gate etc.

There is no anti-engineer sentiment, just a lack of people playing the class and a lack of folks understanding what those that do play can do.

Any ideas why engineer could be uninteresting? Difficulty to learn? Just not “fantasy” enough? Doesn’t fit prototypes players coming from other MMOs already know and therefore worry they will pick a class that doesn’t match their playstyle?

Reading comments, I don’t think this is an isolated server experience. It seems to be an underpopulated class without any real class mechanic problem.

I can only speak for PvE where he is an awesome teammate: Most engis A) don’t know what they are doing or are annoyed by grenades. And sometimes even C) they know what to do, but forget about their skills and just keep spamming a skill.

Seriously I rarely see a random engi use his fields, spreading heal and 15 stacks might. I know just one engi that does that – a friend of mine. But randoms? No, just annoying dps suckers with rifle and elixiers or dual pistol condition fuzzies …

So, people don’t play engineer because it is a harder class to play?
People don’t request engineers because a poorly played engineer is worse than a poorly played other class?

Makes sense. Other ideas?

Does this mean the engineer should be dumbed down a bit? For example, would it be better if the engineer’s grenade skill targeted automatically as it does underwater?

I think aesthetic has a lot to do with it. As a tech-based class, it clashes with a lot of the more traditional fantasy archetypes like thief, guardian, and warrior. There are people out there that just naturally gravitate toward paladin-like characters, just as there are those that always play the rogue/assassin/thief class in every game. It really should come as no surprise to anyone that mesmer and engineer are the least created classes of all of them—they’re definitely the most unusual of the bunch.

I actually don’t think engineer is a very difficult class to learn, but it’s very challenging to master. Compared to elementalist, I think engineer has a lower skill floor—but engineer has the higher skill ceiling. And you have to just put so much more effort into being successful as an engineer compared to other classes. Having leveled thief and warrior, those two classes at 80 are just so much more intuitive when it comes to DPS roles. Guardians and mesmers are similarly much more straight-forward when it comes to group support through projectile walls and AoE buffs (aegis, stability, quickness).v Engineer used to be competitive to elementalists when it came to might stacking, but then they went and buffed Persistent Flames. Having all of these classes to 80 has re-oriented my perspective of the engineer, and made me realize how much less intuitive the class is when put together. As a sum of all its parts it is a fun class to play, but it’s not necessarily the most approachable, either.

Realistically speaking, the only things we’re really “best” at anymore is vulnerability stacking and condition removal. Condition removal is not very commonly needed in most areas of the game as most classes are self-sufficient in this. When I’m rolling on my engineer I make a point to tell other classes to slot out their condition removal skills in favor of other ones that might increase our overall DPS, but the end result is generally unnoticeable as most PvE content doesn’t apply enough condi pressure.

And when it comes to vulnerability stacking, you get a lot of deplorable min/maxers going around saying that the grenade kit is the only way to play because it is best at this role. It’s not a very fun kit to wield, yet it gets the most use because it’s shoved down peoples’ throats that it is the only kit worth building around—because engineers are best taken for their vulnerability stacking, you’re a “bad” engineer if you use something other than the kit that is best at stacking vulnerability.

What you get are a lot of misguided, grumpy people that complain about their class being artificially weaker than everyone else because they’re hobbled together into using a kit that everyone hates. I personally have made a point to construct builds that go beyond the grenade kit, and I have a lot of fun on my engineer, but I just can’t say that we’re really as in-demand as other classes are at the moment in any facet of the game—except maybe PvP where our exceptional crowd control actually matters.

I can agree to the majority of what is already said. I love my engineer but some issues have made me shelve it most of game play now. Things that I often hear as a big turn off: 1.) Hobo sacks 2.) Legendaries are weaksauce 3.) Hobo sacks still have exotic stats even if you have ascended equipped 4.) Dps will always be weaker than other classes (due to having a large variety of skills with kits having no cd) 5.) They aren’t the most flashy 6.) They are a non-traditional class 7.) They aren’t really “best” at anything 8.) Playing an engineer effectively is like playing a piano

Personally, I like that most people don’t play them and don’t understand them though. This gives an advantage in PvP and WvW and almost every engineer I run into is running a different build and different weapons and you just never know what they have up their sleeve.

- No aesthetical endgame due to hobosacks and kits covering our weapons.
- Versatile class with penalties due to that in a game where all the classes are versatile.
- PvE design that makes conditions, control and healing mostly useless. As we’re mostly an hybrid class, this greatly impact us.
- Medium armor design. (let’s speak frankly, they’re almost all trenchcoats…)
- Piano gameplay for moderate effects.

It always pains me to see that most people thing engineers are useless in PvE. But like a ranger they suffer from the same issue that poorly played one is worse than a poorly played one of many other classes.

Things an engineer brings
- Great DPS (7-8k autoattacks ain’t too shabby)
- Vuln stacking – easy way to maintain 25 stacks against even bosses
- Fire/water/smoke fields as necessary
- Tons of blast finishers
- AoE condition cleanse (healing turret overcharge)

My big problem is that 99% of the time I have this stupid hobo sack on my back, instead of my predator and fractal capacitor. Also medium armor looks pretty bad in this game =.=

All MMOs have more paladins/warriors/rangers/mages than any other class.

Most people prefer the aesthetics of the Warrior archetype. Couple that with the fact that they have made the warrior class itself (compared to engi):

1. Easy to play
2. Very strong in all game modes
3. Less likely to die in stuff like WvW
4. More likely to get bags in stuff like WvW
5. Great mobility through traits or weapons or both
6. Generally amazing

Even for those that prefer the “tech” type of character, with all that a class like the warrior has going for it isn’t too surprising that people will sacrifice aesthetic for playability.

As i started the game my first (and up to this point my only) char is an engineer (really dont feel the other classes for some reason). Not gonna argue the many flaws this class got atm (like the almost completely useless turrets and very low dps.. even on “heavy hitter kits”). Its really fun to play engineer. You can support a group pretty effective, like i prever to do most of the time with my elixir cannon, healing tower and the amazing collection of amazing potions…man i can even res people with one of them, and switch in a blink to “heavy hitter” and shove grenades down your enemies throat..or burn em to ashes…or whatever you prever to physically abuse your foes lol. So many combo fields available to choose and ways to completely change the tide of a fight. Im really lucky with this class, but i would like to see some dps buffs and turret fixes.

Well.. the REAL negatives that i (personally) face daily is the very very ugly and boring collection of medium armors. Only really good one i found so far(that i enjoy) is the magitech skin…and the kits.. oh boy.. ugly pieces if i ever saw ugly. Clash with everything and anything in colour and design and really dont spread the “yea.. im a lvl 80 engineer and my weapons are top notch and my tools and armor are as good as i am” thing id really like to have. Well.. legendaries.. i personally dont even bother to get one. Waste of time (in my humble opinion). I barely would see it and it dont affects any visuals on the kits.. cept the grenades from what i hear people say, never saw it myself so dont take my word for that.

In wvw I think you don’t see many because of the boon stability. In wvw stability is like the end all be all boon. Without it in any zerg vs zerg fight you will get stunlocked and rained upon with aoe and condtions. I would really like to see a few classes get more access to stability without relaying on a guardian.

I simply love perma speed for PvE content. That is one of the main reasons I constantly choose my engi for PvE stuff.
Furthermore I do switch between kits all the time. Though I might not get the most out of each, with 20 pts in STR, everything hits quite good.
Besides Ele → most self-combos! I love that!!

Manuhell.2759:

No aesthetical endgame due to hobosacks and kits covering our weapons.

As an engineer with a legendary, I have to dispute this.

No class in this game just uses one weapon all the time. If they do, they’re a terrible player and are not truly adapting properly to the correct situation or group composition.

Kits override our weapons, but you should be actively integrating your pistol or rifle into your rotation in WvW and PvE. For condition builds the pistol is an amazing spreader, and for power builds the rifle has two of the most damaging attacks at our disposal. Actively wielding your weapons and not just your kits will make you a better engineer.

Assassin.7890:

I simply love perma speed for PvE content.

That’s kind of a bad reason to play engineer. Most classes can achieve this already. Most players complain about how slow mesmer is, but even they can get permanent swiftness if you wear 6/6 Rune of Air and use Temporal Curtain (traited) and Mantra of Recovery.

Xyonon.3987:

I can only speak for PvE where he is an awesome teammate: Most engis A.) don’t know what they are doing or B.) are annoyed by grenades. And sometimes even C.) they know what to do, but forget about their skills and just keep spamming a skill.

Seriously I rarely see a random engi use his fields, spreading heal and 15 stacks might. I know just one engi that does that – a friend of mine. But randoms? No, just annoying dps suckers with rifle and elixiers or dual pistol condition fuzzies …

Yup. Doesn’t help the rep of the class (from a dungeon perspective) when most engineers just camp grenade kit. Also, toss in the ones that use flame thrower that mostly obstructs the rest of the party’s vision on telegraphed moves or double-pistol condition spammers hitting with the power of a pea-shooter and using selfish elixirs – and not even tossing them. I too can say I have yet to party with another engineer that stacks might, uses fields, or spreads heals. Engineers that know how to play their class while adding utility to a party are rare like sword/warhorn/spotter/frost spirit (traited) Rangers – probably even rarer.

Great comments folks! Overall, the focus has been a bit PvE. Anyone want to comment on WvW?

I tend to find that a well played WvW engineer is a great asset to a group (small or large).

I would also say that we are the best at being relevant in the most situations. In other words, my engineer can add value from healing, fields, might, escape, debuffing (vulnerability), damage, ccc etc. Maybe someone can do better in one area or another, but I don’t think there is a class that is our equal in terms of the variety of things we can do that add value. Maybe that is because I don’t have one of each class.

Bombsaway.7198:

Great comments folks! Overall, the focus has been a bit PvE. Anyone want to comment on WvW?

Lack of reliable stability.

Toss Elixir B helps, but its cooldown is only reduced filling points in the Tools tree, which is really inefficient for WvW past 10 points.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Manuhell.2759:

No aesthetical endgame due to hobosacks and kits covering our weapons.

As an engineer with a legendary, I have to dispute this.

No class in this game just uses one weapon all the time. If they do, they’re a terrible player and are not truly adapting properly to the correct situation or group composition.

Kits override our weapons, but you should be actively integrating your pistol or rifle into your rotation in WvW and PvE. For condition builds the pistol is an amazing spreader, and for power builds the rifle has two of the most damaging attacks at our disposal. Actively wielding your weapons and not just your kits will make you a better engineer.

What makes you think i’m not doing this already?
I have a legendary myself – Quip. Along with The Mad Moon for utility and aesthetical purposes. And i don’t even show the backpack for those same aesthetical reasons (unless i’m forced to – see:hobosacks).
And even “integrating” those means that unless i’m using #2 to #5 skills I will still be using a kit mostly of the time, even if just for autoattack purposes, as they’re much better than the pistol anyway.

If any other class switches weapon, he can still switch to something specifically chosen for its aesthetical appearance. We have no choice in that regard – kits don’t have alternative skins.

-people don’t know how to play, get frustrated, quit. this applies to any class really.

-people don’t understand the class. dumb pve elitists, people who believe the common misconceptions can go here.

-aesthetics. some people just can’t play a class if it’s not aesthetically pleasing. hobosacks, legendary weapon issues, and lack of engineer-y looking medium armor can go into this category.

-gameplay. some people just enjoy playing warriors or archers or casters that have been around forever in these kinds of games. some people understand the engineer and are very good with the class. they just don’t like it.

engineers are the least played class because the majority of the people who play this game are pve/wvwvw players. if you go into pvp you can’t find a match without at least one engineer.

Agree Ellesee in pvp you see plenty of engineers and they do well. That leaves me thinking that the issue of the engineer is not so much how the class plays (e.g. relative value of the class) but more how it feels to play it.

Ok, so what would draw a few more to playing the engineer? Is there a simple set of fixes? (e.g. Ability to hide a hobo sack is quite easy but hiding a kit swap might be much harder).

knowledge of the class. maybe someone can make a video displaying the high dps of engineers in dungeons. too many people believe too many fallacies about the engineer. one guy in another thread said engis can’t outdps thief auto. imagine if he tells other people that. some of those people might believe him. it won’t resolve all the misconceptions about the class but it might help.

maybe make legendary glow apply when we have our kits out. have the option to show our backpiece even while our kits are out. create more steampunkish engineer styled armor. that would please the aesthetic people.

honestly though i couldn’t really care less if lots of people play engineer. i’m actually happier if they play warrior or guardian. they are way easier to beat than another engineer.

The problems with Engies are NOT with Engies, per say. Engies are to GW 2 what Mesmers were to GW 1. They are the high-maintenance, high versatility class. When I ran my mesmer in GW 1, when people asked, what do you run, the typical response was, the skills I need. Most people accepted that because mesmers could throw a lot of things together, but you had to know generally, what you were doing to play them well.

This is the same for Engies, easy to start, hard to master. The problems are these, they are a very high maintenance class to play well, almost unforgivably so. This will drive away people who want a simple class to play. Worse yet, they are a support class. In every game I have ever played, support class translates into either “weak class overall” or “less rewards.”

In this case, it’s less rewards. When you are running with a zerg, you are so strapped to dish out as much punishment to as many targets as you can that you aren’t even thinking about utility. All because otherwise you will get essentially no rewards for assisting with kills because your damage is too low, and you don’t get loot from the game for acting like a support class.

So you have a high maintenance class, with low rewards if you play it like you’re supposed to. Worse yet, is the effectiveness, or lack thereof, in zerg combat.

Engies are, in essence, mid-line fighters, and skirmishers. They have basically 0 stability skills, and only a few stun breakers which take up utility spaces most the time. That means with the current form of combat, with so much AoE lock-down on the field, you can literally pop every stun break you have and still sit out the entire fight unless you get lucky. Or worse, you’ll die without even firing a shot.

You can argue any of these points with me, go ahead. But you’re wasting your time. My Engie is my first and only really played character. I’ve tried others to get a general understanding, but Engie is my thing.

I’ve played support style, and walked away with a handful of loot.
Then I forsook utility to squeeze out as much AoE damage as I could, and made more loot that way. I didn’t like it, but I did it because I need gold to upgrade my gear.
On the subject of gear, I have an Ascended Weapon, made myself.
I’m stated with variations of P-V-T gear, exotic level armor, with one ascended piece.

I’m trait-ed, and set up for speed and pressure damage.

Because things have gotten so bad with all the AoE that if I stand still for more than 2 seconds, I will MELT. If I get caught by a thief in the open. I will die, because he doesn’t have to think about which of the 24-36 keys are best for the situation, he just stealths and kills my kitten . If I get separated from the zerg in a big fight, 7/10 times, I will get multi-snared and never make it back. My downed skills suck too.

These things are not knocks against the Engie. They’re about the style of game play that yields the best rewards, which is large combat, zerg style play. I do, just fine, in PvE, I can kill basically anything under Champion by myself, and Champs with 1-2 in assist. Heck, I take on groups of enemies of 4-5 with very little trouble, in PvE.

So really the issues for Engies lie in PvP and WvW. They’re not built for mass slaughter, they’re built for controlled slaughter. But that doesn’t get you the bags, and neither does providing support. And THAT is what’s “wrong” with Engies.

pve — zerk warriors have better overall dps and utility
wvw — engis are common in 5-10 man groups, if it gets any bigger engi is actually quite useless.
maybe thats why not many people play it, only useful in certain scenarios.
engi doesnt have its own unique utilities as well. for example, throw elixir U makes a common GUARDIAN skill or a THIEF skill. this applies to many of the skills. the only thing ive seen unique about engi is turrets, and they are trash.

Here’s the reasons I finally deleted my engi:
Turret bugs; there are more than we can count, and it seems like every patch introduces new ones.
Elite skills; we only have one…
Flamethrower; you have to use specific traits, food, runes, and a bit of luck to keep 100% burning duration with a freaking FLAMETHROWER. Seriously, what the hell… And it does kitten damage.
Elixirs; the randomness sucks. Also, were supposed to be engineers, the masters of machines. Alchemy should not be a part of an engineer class.
Bombs/grenades; both are just awkward to use.
Rifle; this should be a long range weapon, not a short range shotgun.

After typing all this up, I’m surprised I stuck with the class for as long as I did.

I know this is selfish but I like being a “rare class” it makes us more unique ^ ^

Although Ive seem alot more engis now-a-days and most of them are spaming flamethrow out of range of the world bosses and not hitting anything..

Well i can write a bunch of possible resons for people to not play Engineer.

1. Lack of determined specialisation, its a jack of all trades profession as such people who dont have any general idea of direction that they could go with their Engineer wont be able to play it effectivly(players lack of imagination to lead the profession).
2. High Skill curve, its really hard to master profession and usualy require lots of planing and strategies to win a fight(its not face-role-the-keyboard profession).
3. Bias, Engineers were extremly weak at the begining of the game due to kits not scaling with weapons stats and generaly cus crapy players couldnt handle them well, so most still live in the past and is extremly biased about them.
4. Extreme amount of bugs, most player wanted to play Engineer cus of the turret gameplay, but even till now turrets are extremly buged and on top of that poorly balanced which makes turret generaly unusable, aside of that Engineer bug list seems extend infinetly.
5. Weapon limit, yes Engineer do have kits which increas amount of weapons but that dosent change the fact that ther are only 3 main weapons avaliable(pistol, rifle, shield).
6. Steam-punk theme, some think that GW2 is mainly Fantasy game as such Engineer dosent fit in with the game atmosphere.
7. Asthetics, yep, unchangeable backpacks skins, even if ther is many back skins to use in the game as Engineer you cant use them if you use weapons kits, most of the time you would be in kit.
8. Lack of Legendaries, as mentioned players have only 3 Legendaries to aim for from which only 1 fit Engineer theme, The predator rifle, others like Quip(a joke of a pistol) and The Flameseeker Prophecies(shield that fits more to Guardian or schoolar profession) dosent really go well with the steam-punk theme.

hmm, if i wanted to i could go futher with possible reson, but i think that thes here are the bigest of them all.

I’ve read most the responses. After leveling 4 characters to 80, I have an opinion that has not been suggested. At about level 30 content begins a steep challenge climb. Most classes have skills that enable them to work through this time with little trouble. Engineers have traits which do not support their skills as much as in other classes of the same level. As such it is easy for a new engineer player to believe the class is weak and give up. Obviously, the class is not weak. It just takes a bit more time and effort to learn to play well. As such, those who learn early how to adapt, become far better and go further than those who give up to play a warrior.

Xyonon.3987:

I can only speak for PvE where he is an awesome teammate: Most engis A) don’t know what they are doing or are annoyed by grenades. And sometimes even C) they know what to do, but forget about their skills and just keep spamming a skill.

Seriously I rarely see a random engi use his fields, spreading heal and 15 stacks might. I know just one engi that does that – a friend of mine. But randoms? No, just annoying dps suckers with rifle and elixiers or dual pistol condition fuzzies …

You realize Elixirs are one of the best might stacking tools in an Engin’s kitten nal right? They aslo grant boons + might to allies.

I am 16 levels into my Engineer so not really all that high but I have fun so far I like dropping turrets and blowing things up guess I am not sure what everyone means by a bad played one, I play it cause it seems like a fun and interesting class to play

Ameno.6813:

Xyonon.3987:

I can only speak for PvE where he is an awesome teammate: Most engis A) don’t know what they are doing or are annoyed by grenades. And sometimes even C) they know what to do, but forget about their skills and just keep spamming a skill.

Seriously I rarely see a random engi use his fields, spreading heal and 15 stacks might. I know just one engi that does that – a friend of mine. But randoms? No, just annoying dps suckers with rifle and elixiers or dual pistol condition fuzzies …

You realize Elixirs are one of the best might stacking tools in an Engin’s kitten nal right? They aslo grant boons + might to allies.

that is incorrect, if you take a kit with 3 elixirs and assuming you take elixir b you can only stack 14 stacks of might at best, the reason hgh works is because of high might duration and sigil of battle you can go different builds with that same high might duration and not take elixirs at all and stack more might except you’ll be doing it in an aoe, however the build that doesn’t use elixirs requires you to use skills for stacking might rather then offensively, which can lower the overall damage potential and you also don’t get those easy boots that elixirs give, both builds have there advantages but the no elixir build is better for general team utility

Xyonon.3987:

I can only speak for PvE where he is an awesome teammate: Most engis A) don’t know what they are doing or are annoyed by grenades. And sometimes even C) they know what to do, but forget about their skills and just keep spamming a skill.

Seriously I rarely see a random engi use his fields, spreading heal and 15 stacks might. I know just one engi that does that – a friend of mine. But randoms? No, just annoying dps suckers with rifle and elixiers or dual pistol condition fuzzies …

all the time ppls want zerker on team and dont want to play with bunker or cond spammer, but when they die fast complain engy who dont spam heal on the feet
in fotm and some dungeon i play engy bunker for other i play mesmer (or if i see other engy in team)
jsut play and have fun

Ameno.6813:

Xyonon.3987:

I can only speak for PvE where he is an awesome teammate: Most engis A) don’t know what they are doing or are annoyed by grenades. And sometimes even C) they know what to do, but forget about their skills and just keep spamming a skill.

Seriously I rarely see a random engi use his fields, spreading heal and 15 stacks might. I know just one engi that does that – a friend of mine. But randoms? No, just annoying dps suckers with rifle and elixiers or dual pistol condition fuzzies …

You realize Elixirs are one of the best might stacking tools in an Engin’s kitten nal right? They aslo grant boons + might to allies.

You realize that Big’Ol’Bom -> Fire Bomb -> Heal Turret -> Shield 4 -> F1 -> Elixier Gun 4 grants 12 stacks permamight? Elixiergun for some heal and complete groupcleanse every few seconds, bombs for long time blind, hold, huge dps, grenades for chill, blind, everything AoE and enemies with perma +25% damage? Are you serious? What will support your team more? Eh? Hgh gunners are soloplayers – deal with it.

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

Xyonon.3987:

I can only speak for PvE where he is an awesome teammate: Most engis A) don’t know what they are doing or are annoyed by grenades. And sometimes even C) they know what to do, but forget about their skills and just keep spamming a skill.

Seriously I rarely see a random engi use his fields, spreading heal and 15 stacks might. I know just one engi that does that – a friend of mine. But randoms? No, just annoying dps suckers with rifle and elixiers or dual pistol condition fuzzies …

all the time ppls want zerker on team and dont want to play with bunker or cond spammer, but when they die fast complain engy who dont spam heal on the feet
in fotm and some dungeon i play engy bunker for other i play mesmer (or if i see other engy in team)
jsut play and have fun

Agree with fun > everything. However doin’ semigood stuff at harder content like fotm 30-50 for example = slow ks = party death and this isn’t fun. Not for you, neither for your maties. If it is fun for you to attack enemies with pistol 1 continuously, then do it. But not at fotm 30-50.

Xyonon.3987:

You realize that Big’Ol’Bom -> Fire Bomb -> Heal Turret -> Shield 4 -> F1 -> Elixier Gun 4 grants 12 stacks permamight?

Very good example: while an Engineer needs combofields, special utilities and 5+ buttons, a Guard gets 12 stacks of Aoe-might with 1 button-press on a simple weapon-skill + heal on top of it.

This class is so much less efficient than specialized classes when it comes to support, it´s laughable.

hydeaut.1758:

Xyonon.3987:

You realize that Big’Ol’Bom -> Fire Bomb -> Heal Turret -> Shield 4 -> F1 -> Elixier Gun 4 grants 12 stacks permamight?

Very good example: while an Engineer needs combofields, special utilities and 5+ buttons, a Guard gets 12 stacks of Aoe-might with 1 button-press on a simple weapon-skill + heal on top of it.

This class is so much less efficient than specialized classes when it comes to support, it´s laughable.

But what happens when you replace the fire bomb in that sequence with HT overcharge or smoke bomb?

hydeaut.1758:

Xyonon.3987:

You realize that Big’Ol’Bom -> Fire Bomb -> Heal Turret -> Shield 4 -> F1 -> Elixier Gun 4 grants 12 stacks permamight?

Very good example: while an Engineer needs combofields, special utilities and 5+ buttons, a Guard gets 12 stacks of Aoe-might with 1 button-press on a simple weapon-skill + heal on top of it.

This class is so much less efficient than specialized classes when it comes to support, it´s laughable.

The guard presses one button and charges over 2-3 sec for 12 stacks of might for 10 sec.
The engi presses many buttons in a hase over 2-3 sec for 12 stacks of might for 25 sec.

Both got ~20-25 sec cd. Spot the difference. (Also engi deals damage during this time)

Stillshade.7634:

But what happens when you replace the fire bomb in that sequence with HT overcharge or smoke bomb?

If you replace the fire bomb with a HT overcharge or a well times toolbelt skill of the HT you heal for ~6-8k AoE.
If you replace it with a smoke bomb everyone gains 12 sec invisibility.

Stillshade.7634:

But what happens when you replace the fire bomb in that sequence with HT overcharge or smoke bomb?

Smoke bomb is just another example: Mesmer veil is 1 button and has no Aoe-cap

Engineer may have more options, still these are not efficient if you have room for specialized classes.

You mean quantity-cap right? It has an “aoe-cap” ofc :P

I beleve that’s true for WvW, however in PvE 2 sec stealth are nothing, especially compared to the 3-12 sec the engi grants.

I’m PvE only myself so … ^^ ye :P

Engineer has multiple combo fields and multiple blast finishers across many viable builds without sacrificing anything.

Those blast finishers don’t come for free, though. We do have to put on cooldown a fair number of skills, as opposed to a single one (also, the duration is wrong – blast finishers’ base might duration is 20s). And one of those is our healing skill.
And the guardian’s one has a shorter cooldown – either 20s or 16s if traited. Ours will probably be 30s since both shield #4 and big ol’ bomb have this cooldown, unless you trait for the first and get at least 20 points in tool for the latter.
It is also more prone to errors (like other people putting their fields on top of yours, like it happened to me yesterday in a CoF p1 run…mass retaliation instead of those nice might stacks).

But apart from that, it sures offer a good deal of versatility. The problem is that this level of versatility often isn’t even required, especially when other classes can do the same things with single skills. Being in a party with other four people, this is often the case.

And we’re also talking of a rather specific build here – p/s with healing turret, bomb kit and elixir gun (and probably grenades at the last spot, due to explosives’ traits).
Sure, we may use turrets beside the healing one as blast finishers as well – but using an utility slot as a blast finisher means basically wasting said slot.

@ Manuhell (lol nice name)

• You don’t have to do the whole combo all the time. Elixier gun and HT finishers have a short cd, aswell the fire bomb.
• BASE might dura is 20s. I run rune of strengh wich increase the might dura to 24. I wonder if I also have some boon dura. However the increased dura shares too with the explo finisher.
• If you share mass retaliation it was your own fault not knowing how to use the combo field, wasn’kitten

“Other classes can do the same thing with a single skill” is clearly a sign of lazyness. The combination is what the engi makes himself unique. Sure a guard can “easier” stack might. Sure a thief can “easier” create a long lasting stealth. Sure a mesmer can clean conditions better and more often. But the point is: The engi can do everything of this. Not to mention the insane AoE and vulnerability… if we talk about usefulness in a team…

Wasting a said slot? Uhm … where should I start?

• Heal Turret = condi remove, heal, finisher, 2x waterfield.
• Grenades = blind, chill, burst toolbelt, tons of vulnerability.
• Bombs = fire field, blind, root, high amount of vulnerability, highest dps we got.
• Elixier Gun = weakness, swiftness (rarely used), condi cleanse for whole party (15 sec cd), finisher with high burst, heal.
  Where the heck is there a wasted slot? What would you like to take then? Tell me.

Xyonon.3987:

• You don’t have to do the whole combo all the time. Elixier gun and HT finishers have a short cd, aswell the fire bomb.

It ends messing up the whole rotation if i do so, as the other two finishers would be active 10s later. I do this sometimes, but i would rather prefer not have to do so.

• BASE might dura is 20s. I run rune of strengh wich increase the might dura to 24. I wonder if I also have some boon dura. However the increased dura shares too with the explo finisher.

It is the same for the other classes, though. A guardian could have enough boon duration to bring that might at full uptime as well.

• If you share mass retaliation it was your own fault not knowing how to use the combo field, wasn’kitten

Not if i correctly place my field and someone else overwrites it, especially since all those blasts must be done in a couple seconds – thus i don’t have the time to ascertain it is my field that is being blasted.

Xyonon.3987:

“Other classes can do the same thing with a single skill” is clearly a sign of lazyness.

No, it is just more efficent – especially if we’re talking about non-kit utility skills: less preparation, lesser cooldowns to manage and overall lesser number of utilities used – it also means you have lesser skills on cooldown, thus ready to be used if needed. In the example we made before, a single weapon skill versus 3 weapon skills, an utility and a toolbelt.

Xyonon.3987:

The combination is what the engi makes himself unique. Sure a guard can “easier” stack might. Sure a thief can “easier” create a long lasting stealth. Sure a mesmer can clean conditions better and more often. But the point is: The engi can do everything of this. Not to mention the insane AoE and vulnerability… if we talk about usefulness in a team…

…but a team is composed of five people, out of 8 classes. Unless you’re in a rather specialized team, there will be others that can do those things.
Also, the vulnerability is mostly due of traited grenades, rather than of the class as a whole
.

Wasting a said slot? Uhm … where should I start?

• Heal Turret = condi remove, heal, finisher, 2x waterfield.
• Grenades = blind, chill, burst toolbelt, tons of vulnerability.
• Bombs = fire field, blind, root, high amount of vulnerability, highest dps we got.
• Elixier Gun = weakness, swiftness (rarely used), condi cleanse for whole party (15 sec cd), finisher with high burst, heal.
  Where the heck is there a wasted slot? What would you like to take then? Tell me.

It seems you misinterpreted the last part of the post, or either i wasn’t clear enough when i had written it.
The build you described offers all those advantages you described – heh, it’s the one i use. Still, it is a rather specific build, with no room for changes.

When i was talking about wasting slots, i was talking about turrets used as blast finishers (but i could say the same for any other non-kit blast finisher, if used only for its blast finisher and not the actual use).

Sure, we may use turrets beside the healing one as blast finishers as well – but using an utility slot as a blast finisher means basically wasting said slot.

Also, aren’t we getting a bit OT?

Ye we are slowly getting offtopic, however the posts are full of useful informations, would be a waste if we would talk per pm :P

Well I wouldn’t say it messes up the rota much. Fire bomb has just 10 sec CD too. However, it’s just theory. We have to evade, we sometimes miss our CDs and we will allways have some deathtime where were we are waiting a few sec for another CD. I also agree the guard is also able to buy such boon dura. I still see the guard and the engi pretty equal in terms of efficiency of might stacking, just defending the Engi here not to be told to be useless in might stacking.

About the fire field and light field for retaliation thing. There is no possibility to “overwrite” a field. You will allways be using the field as finisher in wich you have stepped into first. Not to be confused with the field that has been laid activated first! If you wan’t I can show you this ingame → but I’m EU :s

hydeaut.1758:

Smoke bomb is just another example: Mesmer veil is 1 button and has no Aoe-cap

Engineer may have more options, still these are not efficient if you have room for specialized classes.

Mmmmm … not quite.

Engineers are the second-best class in the game at stacking stealth. The only ones better than us in this regard are thieves. And if they weren’t, there’d be no reason to take one into dungeons because they don’t really offer much else aside from DPS to a group.

Veil is an OK skill, but it doesn’t really compare to the 17 seconds of stealth a bomb engineer can provide (12s through blast finishers + 5s through Toss Elixir S). That’s more than enough to skip dredge and (at higher levels) snowblind fractal mobs. Veil isn’t.

Smoke Bomb isn’t just used for stealth, either. It’s actually a pretty fantastic blind field for fractals when stacking and killing trash. It’s no Black Powder, but it is a much larger field and you have a bit more control as to where it goes.

Xyonon.3987:

About the fire field and light field for retaliation thing. There is no possibility to “overwrite” a field. You will allways be using the field as finisher in wich you have stepped into first. Not to be confused with the field that has been laid activated first! If you wan’t I can show you this ingame -> but I’m EU :s

Mh, in the wiki it said they activate on the oldest initiator, thus the one that was activated first, though.
I was somehow convinced it was on the newest one, so i would be wrong either way.
I was quite sure there weren’t other fields when i placed the bomb, though.
Still, bombs have delays on activation, so it could have been placed just a moment before the bomb activated. Unfortunate, but can happen.
P.S. i’m in EU too.

@ Phineas:
Be fair: A thief can throw a shadow field and spam shortbow 2 to increase the dura by a long time.

@ Manuhell:
The wiki has been edited by players. Players who hear stuff and beleve it without further testing, unlike I did. I’m 99% sure that I’m right. Even if it triggers first, for explosion finishers YOU mustn’t stay inside it at the beginning. How can I explain it? :/ hm – I guess by showing you or even better by creating a video and upload it to youtube

Xyonon.3987:

@ Phineas:
Be fair: A thief can throw a shadow field and spam shortbow 2 to increase the dura by a long time.

Perhaps I made myself unclear, but I meant to say we were second only to thieves when it came to stealth-stacking, meaning they’re better than us. And it’s not even close.

Smoke Screen + Blinding Powder + Clusterbomb spam + Shadow Refuge = 25+ seconds of stealth, depending on traits.

Well… Anyone who doesn’t Engineer since the release of this game barely gets the full understanding of what an engi can provide in a team.

Then… There are people who think Engineer is a waste of a class because they are part of the industrial warfare GW2 has, they don’t wield a greatsword and yell “For great justice”.

The people who first rolled and mained Warrior or Guardian or Mesmer will directly think that Engi is useless.

And… well, I just assume that there are much more assassin/mage/warrior/paladin lovers.

Engineer is a jack of all trades. PVE wise ppl want fast and effective party’s.
5 zerk wariors 1 mesmer.. 4 wariors 1 guard 1 elementalist etc.

Engineer is not uber good in anything specific. We Cant Teleport, our DPS is not as much as other classes, our buffs dont last as long as guardian or heals that effective, Our stealth is shorter then thiefs, Our “summoned weapons dont instanly burst down graveling burrows” etc etc. Like said before. We have kits, wich are exotics. Our dmg is less, and though we have acces to skills from almost every class. The effectiveness and duration make them weaker the the original classes. Besides the effects from legendary is a bit sad. We are usually in Kits, cuse thats what we do. Only granade kits shows us some cool stuff for that.

o.O
a good party for dungeon is:
war
guardian / engy
mesmer/necro(cond spammer)
ele/engy
thief/ranger/other class
just ppl who know what to do and with build for what to do

How is a mesmer a condi spammer? o.O Even engy is more a condi spammer than the Mesi
In general i’d like to have as many different classes as possible in serious content. As long as they know what they are doing :P I’ve seen plenty of engis just spam grenades only, p/p or flamethrower only. I do understand if ppl in general don’t like to have an engy. It’s like with rangers – 99% of them are unexpirienced.

Bombsaway.7198:

I mean this as a serious topic.

The engineer is a very balanced and useful class in almost all situations, but there seem to be far too few people playing it.

Why?

Is this because there is something inherently uninteresting about the lore, style, look, etc.? (Yes I know hobo sacks annoy people but is that the root cause, really?)

Likewise, there seems to be so little understanding of engineers. For example, I have commanders amazed that an engineer can provide water fields or can quickly provide a quick group stealth to get folks inside a gate etc.

There is no anti-engineer sentiment, just a lack of people playing the class and a lack of folks understanding what those that do play can do.

Any ideas why engineer could be uninteresting? Difficulty to learn? Just not “fantasy” enough? Doesn’t fit prototypes players coming from other MMOs already know and therefore worry they will pick a class that doesn’t match their playstyle?

Reading comments, I don’t think this is an isolated server experience. It seems to be an underpopulated class without any real class mechanic problem.

thanks for making this bombs i managed to get a idea for a new build on my engi.