Guild Wars 2

I know this subject was already discussed (with no desirable result).

Some of you think that because engineers can change kits with almost no cooldown, it’s ok that they can’t use weapon stats while using a kit. (for the logic, this is true)

Now let me explain why this is not realy true.

Other classes have weapon swaping with a cooldown, BUT it doesn’t eat up one of your spells to do it. So you must agree that the cooldown for swaping weapons on other classes is a balance to that.

Now don’t tell me about the toolbelt skills, those are the class specific skills that every class has. Basiclly engineers loose a skill for the ability to change weapons.

The thing that, at the moment, is making the game less apealing, for me, is the fact that the damage of the kits doesn’t scale with the ecquiped weapon, and that is very bad.

Now why is that so bad you ask?!

For the 1 – 80 part of your gameplay this is not so bad, it’s actualy a good thing, but giving that in every MMO that i have played so far, reaching max lvl is just the begining, and the fact that the engineers’ kits will be stuck at lvl 80 will make them very under powered (at a time when people have very good weapons).

If that isn’t reason enough, what about not beeing able to use sigils efficiently, not even the “swap to” ones wich i mean it’s just stupid.

The change that i suggest, so that it’s logical that a kit will use the weapon’s stats is the one where the weapon kits are actualy kits for the weapon.

what do i mean by that?

The weapons will change in appearance, and if one of the 4 slots (heal and utility) has a kitt than a backpack will apear on the engineer. (it can differ by the number of kitts you are using 1-small 4 -big).

when you use a kit the weapon changes so that you shoot grenades out of it, drop bombs out of it, shoot fire, elixirs, bandages etc. out of it.

I usually despise when people make posts like I’m making now, but really, how many topics do we need for the same thing? And it’s not like there is anything to discuss, because pretty much everyone agrees that kits should use sigils and weapon stats. Just waiting on ANet to make it happen.

The Kits are scaled tier guild, you can have up to three kits at the sacrifice of random buff mechanics (Potions) to polished utility cooldowns(Gadgets) and turrents(Alt gameplay cool down). Changing the kits to scale with weapon damage would require them to do some re-balancing of their damage output. Granted there may be some truth behind the kits not being scaled properly, Engi’s already have slight issues with effective damage output with their main weapons alone so the entire issue on damage is moot. I can see your sigil point, kits should proc based on any sigil equipped

However, I completely disagree with this suggestion. Weapon Kits aren’t a hindering weapon swap, they are an improved utility segment. To revoke them from utility would be changing the class in it’s entirety.

Also, this game isn’t like other MMO’s, endgame is nothing massive or to look forward too. This game is more about the journey too endgame, there is no rush. So if you’re rushing to 80. you’re really missing out.

@bard, right now kits do gain weapon stats in sPvP (well not exactly but they basically do) and the engineers kit damage seems fine there. And if anything, sPvP is probably what ANet is mostly balancing the game around. So it’s hard to imagine it being at all balance breaking if they let kits use the weapon stats in the rest of the game as well.

Unrelated, but PvP seems to be better overall, they had underwater grenade barrage before PvE, and currently, the heal skill ‘med kit’ changes to ‘unequip bundle’ when used in PvP, but in PvE you have to use weapons swap to drop it.

@Graywolf since anet has the two seperated it doesn’t surprise me really that they are fixing pvp FIRST because if they want it to be an esport and competitive they really need as few bugs as possible, where as in PvE you’re not working against anyone and it’s not really competitive so it doesn’t really matter whether or not you’re buggy (well it does, just not as much).

@OP But we don’t really lose a skill slot… you know that toolbelt thing? That is supposed to compensate you for taking a kit IE i bring a flamethrower, but i still keep a utility skill by getting incendiary ammo, win win to me…

I feel like i wrote this post a few weeks ago…weird how minds think alike. I hope they cosmetic thing is thrown in cause it really busts people for wanting a legendary weapon ANd wanting to use kits…its like “hey congratulations now you’ll never see it again”. and i just dont like that.

Yes weapon swapping has nothing to do with kits. Toolbelt is is the debate. Is it better than everyone else’s class’s “f1-f3/f4”? It definitly has more versitility, (though hunters get new abilitys on every pet…and can swap pets on the fly…) I honestly at the end of the day ….no idea why they decided we couldnt have an extra weapon slot.

Elementalists dont get it because they ALWAYS have 4 different weapons due to their profession f1-f4 abilitys which are always there. Engineers…we have kits, but kits are not manditory so it cannot be balanced against something that you might not use. So that leaves toolbelt…which as you said doesnt seem THAT powerful over other professions f1-f4 type abilitys. So……i guess we will never know O.O.

Bard.7215:

Also, this game isn’t like other MMO’s, endgame is nothing massive or to look forward too. This game is more about the journey too endgame, there is no rush. So if you’re rushing to 80. you’re really missing out.

Nothing massive about end-game? I’m not sure I follow. If you’re talking about the scale of end-game activities, I’d suggest you set foot into WvW on a decently populated server. If you’re talking about major milestones by reaching 80, I don’t think that’s totally true either. I don’t think sPVP is impacted as much by leveling as other aspects of the game. You get access to level 80 exotic armor, which for PvE and WvW is the best that you can get. Plus you get all your trait points to spend at 80. There are some grandmaster traits that can totally change your game play. Though I do agree that the PvE side of the game is more about the journey to end game, I think you’re dismissing some of the incentives of being 80 as well.

But I digress from the topic….

So I’ve started looking into what kind of impact using the stats from weapons may have. For testing, I’m looking at just the power attribute. The reason I went with power as my testing attribute is the formulas for condition damage are more complex (each condition has it’s own formula on how it uses the condition damage attribute) and I really didn’t feel like doing all the math for each condition we have access to while in a kit right now. lol

So… I’m looking at the formula on how Power is used:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor) (Source)

Currently, all kits have a flat weapon damage of 969 at level 80. This is lower than a level 80 masterwork rifle, but higher than a level 80 rare pistol. An exotic rifle at 80 has a weapon damage of 1205. An exotic pistol at 80 has a weapon damage of 1029.

For the purposes of this discussion, I’m going to assume a spell-specific coefficient of 1 (since I’m not sure what the coefficients are for each skill), armor of 2000, and power of 2000 (not including weapon stats). I’m going to run these calculations using a rifle that has 128 power on it.

Calculation using the current kit weapon damage:
969 * 2000 * 1/2000 = 969

Calculation using an exotic rifle’s weapon damage:
1205 * 2000 *1/2000 = 1205

Calculation using an exotic rifles weapon damage and additional power:
1205 * 2128 *1/2000 = 1282.12

Calculation using the Kit’s weapon damage with the additional power from rifle:
969 * 2128 * 1/2000 = 1031.02

The difference between the kit and rifle: 236 damage (24.4% damage increase)

The difference between the kit and the rifle with power: 313.12 damage (32.3% damage increase)

The difference between the kit with +power and the rifle with +power: 251.1 damage (25.9% damage increase)

The difference between a current kit and a kit with +power: 62.02 (6.4% damage increase)

I’m not sure what percentage increase everyone feels we need (if any), but I think I would be happy with them just including the stats and sigils off our weapon and keep the weapon damage the kits currently have. Guess I’d need to see how it played out or know the current coefficients.

I agree that they just need to allow us to gain the stats present on weapons mainly (and sigils)

That’s a big one, since we just outright have less stats than other classes while using a kit…encouraging us to stay in rifle or something which is silly.

I call into question the damage on kits too though, maybe they SHOULD use the weapons damage too…not just giving us stats. But whatever they want to balance it around I suppose. The stats/sigils seem like a given though, that needs to be fixed.