Guild Wars 2

I don’t want to sound mean, I actually think that Engineer is the most original profession I have ever seen, but I can’t understand what are they good (or bad) for.

I know engineers can be a challenge at 1v1 situations, and they’re good point defenders in sPvP, but what about everything else?

I don’t see engineers in PvE or Dungeons very often, and when I do I just can’t understand what they could offer to the team that other classes couldn’t. WvW is something I really care about, and yes, I see some engineers capables of roaming pretty well, but would they work well with small, medium and big zergs?

I mean, Warriors are great for constant damage output, thieves are beasts when it comes to fast and high burst damage, guardians are perfect for any kind of team support, but what about engineers?

What’s so good about the engineer? Why do YOU play engineer?

best vuln stacker, one of the best aoe dps, tons of blast finishers, 15+ might stacks sustained alone. im often asking myself what those other pitty classes do all day :P

engineer is a condition applier with a decent amount of burst, sustained damage, and cool gadgets

What an engineer offers in PVE is simple: quantity, and combos.

You see, while other classes can do a few things that support the team and can arguably do them better than the engineer can, the engineer has a sheer volume of things they can do that is so massive that no other class can really compare:

Condition cleansing (elixir gun, healing turret, cleaning formula 409)
Cripple/chill (Glue shot, glue puddle, sitting duck, freeze grenade, Elixir F, Battering Ram, Box of Nails)
Immobilize (Glue shot, glue puddle, net turret, net shot, net wall)
CC(Overcharge shot, Both Shield skills, Every turret with accelerant packed turrets, battering ram, throw mine, Big Ole’ Bomb, Magnet, Electrified Net, Exlposive Rockets, Thump, Elixir X, Supply Crate, Air Blast, Slick Shoes)
Blocks/invulnerability (Both Shield Skills, Gear Shield, Elixir S, Toss Elixir U)
A ton of blast finishers (every turret, throw mine, Big Ole’ Bomb, Magnetic Inversion, Thumper Turret in particular, Supply Crate)
A ton of AoE Healing (Healing Turret makes 2 water fields, and with a ton of blast finishers this can heal for massive amounts, Cleansing Burst, Super Elixir, Elixir Infused Bombs)
A ton of might stacking (repeat above in fire fields for massive AoE might, H.G.H., Enhance Performance, Juggernaut)
A ton of retaliation stacking (Repeat blast finishers in light field from Super Elixir)
A ton of stealth stacking (repeat blast finishers in smoke from flame turret or bomb kit, Toss Elixir S)
A ton of weakness stacking (repeat blast finishers in poison field from poison grenade, also Elixir Dart for single target weakness).
A ton of AoE damage (coated bullets, grenade kit, bomb kit, static discharge. Nearly everything they do is in AoE, actually)
A ton of AoE burn damage (Blowtorch, Fire Bomb, Flamethrower, Flame Turret, Rocket Turret)
AoE blind (smoke bomb, flash grenade, static shock, toss elixir U Go for the Eyes for single target blnd)
Vulnerability stacking (Steel packed powder, Utility Goggles)
Projectile Reflection (Toss Elixir U, Magnetic Shield, Air Blast)
Permanent Vigor
Boon Stripping (Acidic Elixirs, Throw Mine, Mine Field)
1500 max range on attacks (grenadier)
Confusion (Static Shot, concussion bomb, Pry Bar)
Incredibly high precision stacking + fury (scope, elixir B, Med Kit, target the weak, when combined come to upwards of 40% crit chance from nothing)
Self protection application (Elixir H and Toss, Protection Injection, Protective Shield)
AoE rez (Toss Elixir R)
And finally are the #2 choice for condition pressure following behind Necromancers.

I bolded the parts where, arguably, engineers are the best at it out of any class. Just flip your utilities and maybe exchange your weapon for whatever you need to do up ahead, and there is literally no problem in this game you cannot solve as an Engineer. A good engineer is flexible, capable of changing their role based on what their teammates need, while still preforming fairly well regardless.

Hey you forgot to list Rocket boots and Acid Bomb as blast finishers to.

No one is perfect.

Although the list of things an Engineer theoretically could bring to the table…is long and cheerful, the grim reality of the matter is that there is no way to combine the majority of those in a “self-dependant” build..

Its all good when you have 1 to X amount of people tending after you (buffing/clearing agro/healing or w/e you need to make it work out there), but 90% of the Engineer builds that would bring a lot of versatility on the table will go down as soon as their babysitter gets distracted with something else (Dungeon Boss/Enemy player being the prime suspects).

I have never seen a person willingly run a medic build (unless its for testing purposes) nor do i ever expect to…and i would never expect to run into “blast finisher” builds or some other wacky combination…unless the engineer in question is still exploring his options or is being forced to trait as such by his guild for specific reasons.

Its the state of the class that causes this.We lack true versatility and have baptised a few preset paths as such.

What Engineers really bring to the table that no-one else can bring in such obscene amounts is Control (rifle #2/net turret/supply drop/toolkit magnet) which paired with the knock-backs the class offers allows them to dictate (on paper) where the fight takes place.

“On paper.” is the key word here, since we have no access to stability, while other classes have fewer knock-backs + control + stability or some other nifty trick to pull out of their sleeve.

We also bring RNG Buffs and AoE Heals…but would you take an engi over an ele or a guardian for their heal or buffs respectively, nerfing your groups damage in the process?

Perhaps i’m being narrow-minded here, but anything else i look at…either somebody else does it better than us or excelling at it requires us to be a one trick pony. I’m not saying there are no viable/strong/dominating builds out there that don’t heavily involve CC, what i’m saying is CC is what we do best than everyone else.

Engineer is the clutch profession. It also specializes in combos.

The devs have some clear ideas what they want other classes to be, but no clue what they want engineer to be. The devs only know what engineer are not allowed to be, this is why we so often see major negative balance and only minor or bug fixes to positive.

This is why if engineers find for example a complex method to burst, even if much harder to execute and with none of the survivability of thieves, that engineer build gets utterly deleted from game even when all multikit builds are ruined as collateral damage.

This is why super elixir was ruined to ensure we don’t support like guardians.

This is why our only reliable stability was taken from juggernaut, and not returned anywhere else.

It’s why when our magnet is downgraded with LoS requirements to be like other class skills it is not upgraded to a half second cast or given decent damage to be like other class pulls. Because it comes with other toolkit skills we are told, ignoring al the tax we already paid for having kits.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

No one is perfect.

Sorry i didn’t mean to come off neagtive

You should play it because you like running around with scoped rifles hip firing like it’s CoD. Cuz we’re cool like that.

daweed.6520:

Although the list of things an Engineer theoretically could bring to the table…is long and cheerful, the grim reality of the matter is that there is no way to combine the majority of those in a “self-dependant” build..

Its all good when you have 1 to X amount of people tending after you (buffing/clearing agro/healing or w/e you need to make it work out there), but 90% of the Engineer builds that would bring a lot of versatility on the table will go down as soon as their babysitter gets distracted with something else (Dungeon Boss/Enemy player being the prime suspects).

I have never seen a person willingly run a medic build (unless its for testing purposes) nor do i ever expect to…and i would never expect to run into “blast finisher” builds or some other wacky combination…unless the engineer in question is still exploring his options or is being forced to trait as such by his guild for specific reasons.

Its the state of the class that causes this.We lack true versatility and have baptised a few preset paths as such.

What Engineers really bring to the table that no-one else can bring in such obscene amounts is Control (rifle #2/net turret/supply drop/toolkit magnet) which paired with the knock-backs the class offers allows them to dictate (on paper) where the fight takes place.

“On paper.” is the key word here, since we have no access to stability, while other classes have fewer knock-backs + control + stability or some other nifty trick to pull out of their sleeve.

We also bring RNG Buffs and AoE Heals…but would you take an engi over an ele or a guardian for their heal or buffs respectively, nerfing your groups damage in the process?

Perhaps i’m being narrow-minded here, but anything else i look at…either somebody else does it better than us or excelling at it requires us to be a one trick pony. I’m not saying there are no viable/strong/dominating builds out there that don’t heavily involve CC, what i’m saying is CC is what we do best than everyone else.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalspSXHxSgF17ICoC5loHPGlNZfewWpFEC-jQzAItgg1ApFAkoEmDLiGblLsV3oVeDiSOwqbMVaS1xQekkCA-e

My what I consider basic HGH (though I opt in boon duration for full might duration runes) build. Some times I opt in a shield or use a rabid rifle for control. Decent condition management control and application. Not many situations where you might need a “sitter” out side a high level fractal and even then.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqqbHxSyF1LJyIFdmoBqQdJqQ+95BblWQIA-jQzAINEsWApFAkoEmDLiGbJLIVxwWGjmSOwqbMVaS1xQekkCA-e

IMHO this sort of build (I personally run this one) is the best support besides a pocket guardian your going to get in the game. With decent DPS, strong defense (if played correctly), and babysits the party (condition cleansing and group healing). Not to mention strong access to vulnerability for added dps to the party. You also get strong access to weakness with this build.

What you get:

2 water fields
2 blast finishers (one doubles as an aoe knock back)
Blind
Confusion
Burn (single target dependent upon build)
Bleeding
Crippled
Chilled
Poison
A pull
2 blocks (one doubles as a stun)
A light field
Max range (though ranger with a LB could get more traited)
Strong access to aoe
On demand vigor and swiftness
AoE vulnerability and strong aoe DPS
And probably one of the best if not the best access to single target weakness in the game
Regeneration
Stun break

What missing:

Power
Mobility
Burst
Heavy direct CC

You cannot have it all but I do not see engineer as a class to be babysat. Most of the time when I run this I am the babysitter.

Edit:
When I run bombs over grenades incendiary powder get taken out as does grenadier in favor of shrapnel and forceful explosions. I might opt in in build one Rocket boots with bombs for stealth while roaming. I might also opt in elixir X in both builds and a rifle in the first for the same reason mobility.

daweed.6520:

Although the list of things an Engineer theoretically could bring to the table…is long and cheerful, the grim reality of the matter is that there is no way to combine the majority of those in a “self-dependant” build..

Its all good when you have 1 to X amount of people tending after you (buffing/clearing agro/healing or w/e you need to make it work out there), but 90% of the Engineer builds that would bring a lot of versatility on the table will go down as soon as their babysitter gets distracted with something else (Dungeon Boss/Enemy player being the prime suspects).

I have never seen a person willingly run a medic build (unless its for testing purposes) nor do i ever expect to…and i would never expect to run into “blast finisher” builds or some other wacky combination…unless the engineer in question is still exploring his options or is being forced to trait as such by his guild for specific reasons.

Its the state of the class that causes this.We lack true versatility and have baptised a few preset paths as such.

What Engineers really bring to the table that no-one else can bring in such obscene amounts is Control (rifle #2/net turret/supply drop/toolkit magnet) which paired with the knock-backs the class offers allows them to dictate (on paper) where the fight takes place.

“On paper.” is the key word here, since we have no access to stability, while other classes have fewer knock-backs + control + stability or some other nifty trick to pull out of their sleeve.

We also bring RNG Buffs and AoE Heals…but would you take an engi over an ele or a guardian for their heal or buffs respectively, nerfing your groups damage in the process?

Perhaps i’m being narrow-minded here, but anything else i look at…either somebody else does it better than us or excelling at it requires us to be a one trick pony. I’m not saying there are no viable/strong/dominating builds out there that don’t heavily involve CC, what i’m saying is CC is what we do best than everyone else.

It is impossible for any class to bring everything they can do at the table at once. However, with Kits and a toolbelt, as well as the general versatility of blast finishers and combo fields in general, the engineer can bring a lot more to the table all at once than other classes can. The key in PVE is not to build to do just one thing well, but to choose a build spec that allows you to do many things, with the flip of a trait or the exchange of a utility.

Your assessment that an engineer cannot somehow work by themselves is also fully incorrect. Someone has already posted a build that provides a fine example of multiple working abilities at once, but what also needs to be understood is that our various contributions to any team comes from the fact that our skills have multiple uses in themselves. There is always the utility and the tool belt skill, and for kits there is an equivalent of a weapon swap as well as a toolbelt skill. The engineer brings a ton of diversity to any group no matter what build you run, unless you specifically try to run as bland a build as possible and refuse to swap utilities for when it is appropriate.

I have run a blast finisher build on multiple occasions, particularly a dedicated healer type. It is really easy, since it is just any build except you switch utilities to use blast finishers for that particular engagement. In any circumstances where it is needed (For example, Temple of Balthazar) more than other skills are needed, you can swap in a few turrets or kits that have blast finishers, and then either use the combo field that is needed or if someone else takes care of it, use their combo field. Doing this, I’ve been able to manage AoE bursts of healing upwards of 8k on a berserker build, by myself.

EDIT: Engineers are also not that low damaging. They are low power damaging. Grenades have arguably the highest ranged damage in the game, and also stack a massive amount of conditions in an AoE. Their attacks all hit in an AoE, and with something liked Coated Bullets you get obscene amounts of damage in the right circumstances. They have the longest lasting and most reliable burning in the game, so each time they drop a fire bomb, they do 8 × 700 × 5 =28.000 damage and/or stack might as well. Engineer bombs have 84% the power of a thieve’s cluster bomb, but with no initiative limit, so even when an engineer goes for all out power they can still hit hard.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

It is impossible for any class to bring everything they can do at the table at once. ..

…Engineer bombs have 84% the power of a thieve’s cluster bomb, but with no initiative limit, so even when an engineer goes for all out power they can still hit hard.

First i’d like to point out that the original poster basically asked “What do Engineers do that other’s don’t?” . On that note i’d like to repeat my closing statement from my previous post in order to set the tone for my following comment .

“I’m not saying there are no viable/strong/dominating builds out there that don’t heavily involve CC, what i’m saying is CC is what we do best (my English failed me here : better) than others.”.

Now about your post on my opinion of the class and its strengths and weaknesses:

-You setting up your traits for a specific scenario…does not constitute that build being a viable build anywhere outside that scenario. Multiple times is still limited times, multiple scenarios are still limited scenarios. In my opinion what should matter to you is how versatile the class can be without having to reset your traits every time you are about to do something different.

-You switching utilities between fights does not constitute being a versatile class – any class can do that. Once more imo what should matter to you is how versatile the class can be with what you have at hand…at any given time.

- In order for an Engineer to do high damage the Engi needs to specialise to the point where diversity goes out of the window. Check out the builds that deal the damage numbers you describe, how versatile do you see them being, given the traits and gear needed to make them work?

I consider this the most enjoyable class the game has to offer…but that doesn’t change the fact that we are over-penalized for the use of kits.

The only actual advantage our “versatility” gives us is that our human opponents need to wait and see what our deal is more often (and longer) than with other classes. The amount of disadvantages we have been handed due to that “versatility” is flabbergasting to say the least and detrimental to the fact that you don’t get to see many mediocre engineers.

True versatility would allow us to get to a respectable % of our classes potential through multiple paths, which is not the case here . We should be a class that can spread trait points in a 15-15-15-15-10 fashion and still have the potential to come out somewhat decent. Obviously since we follow the same mechanics and philosophy in design as the rest when picking traits, this is never going to happen and we are stuck with cookie cutter builds with a spare utility slot here and there.

PS. You guys took the term “need a babysitter” harder than it was meant to…which was dependant to others. Obviously certain builds aren’t dependant to others for survival by definition of design (eg. bunkers or healers)

pixfan.2407:

I do I just can’t understand what they could offer to the team that other classes couldn’t.

Engineer can do everything other classes can, but all at the same time – making him to the most useful class.

You need a guardian to buff your team and heal them up? No you don’t u got engineer. U need shout Warri/Guardian for Condition remove? no u don’t u got an engineer. You need range dps? No you don’t u got engineer. You need thief for mass invisible? No you don’t, u got an engineer. You need thief for pull? No u don’t.

Engineer really can do everything other classes can do. And that’s the reason you should prefer the engineer. Just warriors dps is one exception – but still there: HGH zerker grenadier comes most close to warriors dps from all classes.

So yes, I am always confused why engineer is not generally accepted – there is simply no reason why. But you know, people are slow.

#1: The class is already the most versatile class without resetting traits. Swapping through utilities and traits is never meant to be a permanent build. Ever. What every engineer does is make themselves a base build, and then only change flip trait abilities and utilities when the situation calls for it.

#2: Engineers are the best at many things. In my list, I bolded where they were best.

#3: The second advantage to switching between traits and utilities is that, due to an engineers versatility, the solution to any problem is always available to them. No other class can claim this, since each one has a large gap in the skills they provide.

#4: The engineer does not need to specialize so much that diversity goes out of the window to do damage. The example I provided was the bomb kit, and to use that power you only need one thing: the bomb kit. And by having the bomb kit, you get all of the utility the bomb kit offers. Speccing in purely one build type results in a decrease in DPS, not an increase. This is because having various kits and alternate utilities gives you multiple high-damaging skills to alternate through, as well as controls and utilities that provide defense where it is needed, as well as control where it is needed.

The build example I listed wasn’t a “build” at all. It was a generic condition build, with the only requirement being condition damage. This means it can be a shaman healer, a pure DPS rampager, or a more modest carrion/rabid. The only requirement listed to do that damage in a condition build is the bomb kit. The bomb kit itself offers a lot of utility via fire field, smoke field, AoE blinds, cripple patch, and AoE knockback + blast finisher, but this leaves 2 slots open for whatever is needed, and with how low maintenance the bomb kit is (arguably requiring only 10 points in explosives for larger radii), there’s a full 60 points to invest in doing whatever it is they want to do. This includes going for a power type build, since bomb #1 has good direct damage, too.

Also, you seem to have missed something: The OP already knows that engineers are challenging in sPVP. You mentioned it yourself why: other players have no idea what we have until we use it. This is better than you realize, since it means there is no counters to engineers. When making a competitive sPVP build, players will analyze how they will try and beat all of the other common competitive builds, but this can’t work against an engineer due to the lack of counters. The fact that our opponents are facing the unknown works in our advantage because it means the fight is in our control until we blow all of our secrets, and our opponents learn about those secrets by getting a prybar to the face. As for what they do best, engineers are, after all, the most controlling class, in competition with highest condition pressure, capable of bunkering quite well, and also has what is arguably the best counter to condition builds through Automated Response.

While everything in that big list can work for sPVP, it is generally assumed that no one will let your team gather together under a fire field and spam blast finishers. In PVE and WvW the scene is much different, where you can all gather together and use blast finishers in a fire field.

It’s fun.

/thread

I’ve switched over to engie from a mesmer main and I personally love the versatility and the support role as a blaster. I’m either stacking 15 stacks of might on my guildies or i’m dropping a ton of heals. Mesmer had very little in the way of blast finishing, and engie excels at blast bursts.

The thing I miss most, which mesmer and necro seems to be the only classes that excels at, is boon stripping or corruption. What’s frustrating is I can see a super useful engie zerg buster build that would pair amazingly with a null field bunker mesmer to strip stability, but sadly I can’t play both.

pixfan.2407:

I don’t see engineers in PvE or Dungeons very often, and when I do I just can’t understand what they could offer to the team that other classes couldn’t.

As far as dungeons are concerned, you could probably ask this same question to rangers/necros or any class that isn’t zerker war/guard/mes (the latter mostly only requested for their portal).

Personally the only thing I’ve found wanting to provide and can’t provide in dungeons (or guild missions) as an engineer is a portal.

One thing you might want to look at is that engineers deliver the things other classes do differently. For example, a warrior does his full damage at close range, but the engineer does his maximum damage with a 1500-range nade. Guardians heal mostly at close range, but engineers can heal from a good distance away, which opens up non-tanky options when you want to provide heals.

This can open up some new, possibly more efficient ways to do things. For example, in cof p1 acolyte, most people make a full circle around the altar and clear acolytes as they go before they retreat into the cave. However, an engineer can camp the acolytes on the far side with 1500 range nades without aggro and kill them before the warrior even runs out of the cave, so the warriors can make only half a circle on the other acolytes and therefore faster and safer.

Unfortunately most people don’t really open up to new ways of playing so this kind of stuff is alien to most people. They kick us out of dungeon parties without asking too, and that’s why they all never realize what engineers can do.

I bet most people don’t know engineers can solo defend against bomb golems in coe p1. They know axe wars do it and never bothered to consider anything else.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

#1: The class is already the most versatile class without resetting traits. Swapping through utilities and traits is never meant to be a permanent build. Ever. What every engineer does is make themselves a base build, and then only change flip trait abilities and utilities when the situation calls for it.

Being the most versatile of the classes….is like saying the one-eyed leads the blind.

Anyway, it seems futile to argue with each other… we have different kinds of versatility in mind.

You feel it is versatile enough being able to equip multiple kits, i feel that versatility would be possible if we had more liberty in our choice of traits when levelling up compared to other classes (which we don’t).

Its not that i don’t use kits (toolkit is a permanent resident in my bar , others pop up according to need) or that i feel that the Engineer can’t do much (i wouldn’t spent 99.9% of my game time on mine if that was the case). My beef is with the “nerf” an engineer takes compared to other classes in order to use kits. A “penalty” so big that it makes non-kit engineers suffer* to the point where, as i mentioned earlier, you don’t get to see a lot of mediocre engineers.. just really good ones and really bad ones .

To oversimplify things. Having the option to run as a 30% Ele, 30% Guard, 30% Ranger hybrid doesn’t justify the last 10% being taken out from every Engineer in the game.

Out of the top of my head and with the most simplistic way i could think of it being achievable :

Have some of the already available trait choices overlap (eg Metal Plating could show up as a choice on more than one trees when 10 points are spent – it can only be selected once – total number of available choices on each selection after all multiple choices are taken out should be equal to the number of skills available for other classes -1 ) – more traits would be needed to fill in whatever gaps are there- .

Things that makes sense (like Elixirs and the Alchemy tree, Explosives and Grenades/Bombs, Firearms and the Rifle/Pistol relevant traits) stay tied together..things that should be universally available to Engineers like eg. Packaged Stimulants are made available in multiple trees.

That would have been versatile in my book…since it offers more viable combinations of traits and thus more viable builds running around.

*I am aware that exceptions apply….but aren’t they meant to “confirm the rule”?

PS. Although we seem to disagree i still enjoy seeing what others think of our class. So…thanks for the replies

I am trying Engineer myself now aswell, its almost 50. I am curious though if any old timer engineer could ansver. If I go 30 Inventions, 30 Alchemy (but not potion traits just protection ect) and 10 random. Will I be able to dish good damage with rifle if my armor set and jewelry is Knight or Berserker, (power build). Skills I am running is Rifle + Medkit + Toolkit + Bomb Kit + random or Flamethrower kit + Supply Drop.

daweed.6520:

To oversimplify things. Having the option to run as a 30% Ele, 30% Guard, 30% Ranger hybrid doesn’t justify the last 10% being taken out from every Engineer in the game.

Maybe it’s just me, but I am 150% Ele, 60% Guard and 150% Ranger at the same time.

VictorTroska.3725:

I am trying Engineer myself now aswell, its almost 50. I am curious though if any old timer engineer could ansver. If I go 30 Inventions, 30 Alchemy (but not potion traits just protection ect) and 10 random. Will I be able to dish good damage with rifle if my armor set and jewelry is Knight or Berserker, (power build). Skills I am running is Rifle + Medkit + Toolkit + Bomb Kit + random or Flamethrower kit + Supply Drop.

Your best bet would be to go on SPvP and test the combos you are thinking about. Every person has a different play style when it comes to the Engi, what works for others might not work for you and vice versa.

Forestnator.6298:

daweed.6520:

To oversimplify things. Having the option to run as a 30% Ele, 30% Guard, 30% Ranger hybrid doesn’t justify the last 10% being taken out from every Engineer in the game.

Maybe it’s just me, but I am 150% Ele, 60% Guard and 150% Ranger at the same time.

Granted that a decent Engi build can squash nublets left and right (thats what we are best for imo, punishing people who think all Engis are punching bags and thus overcommit ).

But you cant say that the medium of the Engineer class comes even close to those of most other classes. Even if it were to be claimed kitten…it would be backed up with some extensively specific theory- crafting on the Engi side versus generic builds, without taking into consideration the degree of difficulty involved in said builds.

Its like looking at two piano players…one has to play “Mary had a little lamb” to get a perfect score from the judges…the other one has to play “Bachs Toccata and Fugue in D minor” …both need to play a 1 minute part of each arrangement , but the amount of difficulty involved in minute is not the same in both cases.

What is fair in relation to the degree of difficulty…is that the person who opted to play “Toccata” being able to score more (if he gets it right) than the one that opted for “Mary” on that competition.

In “GW2: Music for the Zergs” “Toccata” scores a 9/10 with the reasoning that it used more piano keys than “Mary” (who scored a 10/10) and that the performer has also taken drums lessons.

Would a drum + piano piece grant the “Toccata” performer a 10? No, because according to the “GW2: MftZ” competition rules more than one instrument used means a -1 point in your final score.

To oversimplify once more…. the Engineer class is basically being forced to be versatile or suck…and then forced to suck for being versatile, when it should be one or the other.