Guild Wars 2

Ario.8964:

They made it way too passive with scrapper (not making any claims of what needs to be nerfed I’m just stating what my view is for why the engineer is no longer enjoyable for many to play)

I never understood why people claimed that scrapper promotes more passive play. Rapid Regeneration is an incredibly strong trait, but it requires active skill use to make the most of it.

Compared to other passive regen traits we’ve had in the past like Elixir Infused Bombs, which healed you for just about as much for just auto attacking in the bomb kit, and Backpack Regenerator, which gives you back HP for just sitting in a kit, I don’t really see how Rapid Regeneration promotes any more a passive play than anything we’ve had access to previously.

If anything, it’s a pretty terrible trait if you don’t take Slick Shoes and aren’t actively using Super Speed effectively.

Ario.8964:

There is no more comboing with kits for cc chains and maxing damage on an opponent. It’s all about spam hammer attacks and occasionally use egun. Enjoyed your old cc chains from the cele rifle build or mara rifle? Too bad, Especs get more cc than you and they don’t actually have to try and chain or land it.

Since the game launched we have been asking for builds that were less dependent on kits, where we didn’t have to use the grenade kit or bomb kit to be competitive. In PvE this is absolutely still the case, but I am glad that builds like p/p HGH and hammer scrapper are viable and revolve primarily around elixirs, gadgets, and gyros in PvP. I still use the mortar and e-gun personally, but I don’t plan on going back to using bombs, grenades, or the tool kit until the meta absolutely forces me to.

Kit-centric builds still exist, and you’re welcome to use them, but I think most of us find hammer-centric builds to be a breath of fresh air—even if it is a bit overtuned.

Ario.8964:

The game takes 0 mechanical skill to play and it has ruined what was such a cool class.
As an engineer you had to be very aware of the cd’s on each kit you had, you had to consistently be able to land your slower moving but highly devastating grenades, and you had to know how to land damage effectively in the short time you had between cc’s in your chain. But instead of making the other parts of engi like that, they decided to make it a passive melee tank that requires 0 focus or skill. It’s not fun for anyone except Fotm players or frankly noobs who don’t think they should have to try to actually be rewarded for playing.

Sorry but I genuinely disagree. I stopped playing the game for 3-4 months and came back on Sunday. I lost only like 3 games moving from Amber 1 to Sapphire 5. Of those losses, I had fail comps like 2 warriors on my team, 3 thieves on my team, and one of them was a 4v5. I have been paving over other engineers with absolute ease, and have 1v2’d and even 1v3’d the opposing team multiple times.

I agree that Guild Wars 2 is a game that takes very little mechanical skill compared to League of Legends or Counterstrike, but to imply that there is zero skill at all to being good at this game, I think, is hyperbolic.

Phineas Poe.3018:

If anything, it’s a pretty terrible trait if you don’t take Slick Shoes and aren’t actively using Super Speed effectively.

try blast gyro with rapid regen and final salvo ;D

slick shoes cant stop a bunker from bunkering, but blast can get you the decap!

insanemaniac.2456:

try blast gyro with rapid regen and final salvo ;D

So I have to sink two traits and a utility skill for it to be worthwhile without Slick Shoes.

How is that an issue to people?

This, like so many other complaints, is solely a pvp issue. PVE is what you make of it.

I do agree that the elite specs are upgrades, however there will be more of those, and you will have to choose one, so once they have more elite specs, it will be more or less the way it was before. (I think).

Yeah, Scrapper is quite OP now. I usually play this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUBlYhVXBGYBEqil3i6boiwAg+4D+iX8iaikA-TJhHABAcBAOZ/BsLDIwDAAA

The elite is OP
The Hammer is OP
Nades are mandatory
Elixir C is useful. No it’s OP because necros no longer uses Corrupt Boon
Stability, Might, Might, Stability

BECOME… UNSTOPPABLE

no more chain skills. Just spam everything you have to your enemy

Phineas Poe.3018:

insanemaniac.2456:

try blast gyro with rapid regen and final salvo ;D

So I have to sink two traits and a utility skill for it to be worthwhile without Slick Shoes.

How is that an issue to people?

uhhh no you could just use it with blast gyro without final salvo and it would still be good…

but its so strong. the more superspeed access you have, the more unkillable you become. so you gotta dedicate some utilities to gyros or superspeed toolbelts. blast gyro brings 2 sources in 1 utility, with the longer superspeed on a rather short cd.

plus its not like final salvo is coming at a price. it does the same thing as adaptive armor, providing survivability. its just through strong regen, stability, and dazes, instead of toughness and condi reduction. and scrapper has enough damage that random quickness is unnecessary, especially now that it doesnt affect stomps/rezzes.

I like (and others too) scrapper gameplay. If You dont no one is forcing You to play with hammer – play with ur beloved kits. Maybe the class needs some option for players that want to play nice engie with hammer and spamming keys not kits? Not everything has to be about you. Play kits if u miss them…

Rip kit swap nightmare. So long nades. Deuces rifle builds.
Don’t let the proverbial door hit you on your way to the back burner. Give me hammer playstyle, which isn’t easy nor boring. If anything, rifle cc, magnet, pry bar, rifle cc, nades toolbelt, was friggin boring. Give me a re-buffed SD, ele melting build. Idc if it’s total tissue paper, I want it.

Engi4lyfe

I am playing core rifle sd engie and i have a lot of fun ^^.

Nubu.6148:

I am playing core rifle sd engie and i have a lot of fun ^^.

Yea in open world it’s a blast. SD is not an effective option in pvp, nor in wvw.

insanemaniac.2456:

uhhh no you could just use it with blast gyro without final salvo and it would still be good…

Without Final Salvo I am throttled with only 3 seconds of super speed every 30 seconds. That’s ~50 hp/sec normalized over its cooldown versus Slick Shoes’ toolbelt giving ~100 hp/sec. Slick Shoes is a substantially better CC and survivability skill—until you opt for Final Salvo.

And to that point:

insanemaniac.2456:

plus its not like final salvo is coming at a price. it does the same thing as adaptive armor, providing survivability. its just through strong regen, stability, and dazes, instead of toughness and condi reduction.

I think it depends. In a condition meta Adaptive Armor is much stronger. A flat 20% damage reduction on top of Hoelbrak runes renders almost all but the spammiest of condi builds non-threatening. Final Salvo’s advantages in such a situation are … muddled.

I think players need to ultimately recognize that skills requiring 2-3 traits (including a passive or two) to be good is not a bad thing. That’s precisely what Guild Wars needs more of. We have been begging for years to stop being a mixed bag and have an actual role, where we aren’t just mashing skills on cooldown to maximize our damage. And now that we finally have one everyone thinks we need to be nerfed?

Ridiculous. Your damage output compared to a kit-centric build is hilariously bad. There absolutely is an opportunity cost to Final Salvo—there’s a significant penalty to our damage rolling Inventions and Scrapper together in the first place.

Buff other professions if you have to, or nerf the Paladin amulet. But there is absolutely nothing directly OP about Scrapper, least of all gyros that were DOA on HoT launch.

Phineas Poe.3018:

insanemaniac.2456:

uhhh no you could just use it with blast gyro without final salvo and it would still be good…

Without Final Salvo I am throttled with only 3 seconds of super speed every 30 seconds. That’s ~50 hp/sec normalized over its cooldown versus Slick Shoes’ toolbelt giving ~100 hp/sec. Slick Shoes is a substantially better CC and survivability skill—until you opt for Final Salvo.

And to that point:

insanemaniac.2456:

plus its not like final salvo is coming at a price. it does the same thing as adaptive armor, providing survivability. its just through strong regen, stability, and dazes, instead of toughness and condi reduction.

I think it depends. In a condition meta Adaptive Armor is much stronger. A flat 20% damage reduction on top of Hoelbrak runes renders almost all but the spammiest of condi builds non-threatening. Final Salvo’s advantages in such a situation are … muddled.

I think players need to ultimately recognize that skills requiring 2-3 traits (including a passive or two) to be good is not a bad thing. That’s precisely what Guild Wars needs more of. We have been begging for years to stop being a mixed bag and have an actual role, where we aren’t just mashing skills on cooldown to maximize our damage. And now that we finally have one everyone thinks we need to be nerfed?

Ridiculous. Your damage output compared to a kit-centric build is hilariously bad. There absolutely is an opportunity cost to Final Salvo—there’s a significant penalty to our damage rolling Inventions and Scrapper together in the first place.

Buff other professions if you have to, or nerf the Paladin amulet. But there is absolutely nothing directly OP about Scrapper, least of all gyros that were DOA on HoT launch.

hammer is directly op. high damage skills paired with defensive side effects. short enough cds to not need more than 1 kit to have enough to do without resorting to autos.

no one has been arguing that gyros are op. in fact, people have been constantly saying theyre crap. specifically, medic, purge, and shredder. and some people even like medic. the other 3 arent bad, but arent op either.

but i would argue that blast is as useful as slick shoes. its just a different playstyle. it lets you get decaps, so you gotta play like a nodefighter or duelist rather than a teamfighter, which is what slick shoes is better for. take marauder instead of paladin and take sneak instead of X too, so you can do your split fighting better.

im just gonna ignore all your poo-pooing about final salvo vs adaptive armor, because i was the same way until i gave final salvo a chance. i thought adaptive armor was the end all for scrapper gm traits. now i dont. i dont do any worse against condi builds. scrapper has enough cleaning and sustain that its hard to stick condi damage. you arent getting the most you can out of adaptive, because in general youre just cleaning them off anyways. whatever extra damage you take is offset by standing in gyro lightning. and when you cant clean enough, youre outnumbered and should be dying anyways.

basz.6129:

Nubu.6148:

I am playing core rifle sd engie and i have a lot of fun ^^.

Yea in open world it’s a blast. SD is not an effective option in pvp, nor in wvw.

I kill people in diamond , i kill people in legendary and i killed all i ve met in wvw ^^ .

So i have fun with my not effective option .

insanemaniac.2456:

hammer is directly op. high damage skills paired with defensive side effects. short enough cds to not need more than 1 kit to have enough to do without resorting to autos.

Translation: It’s a standalone weapon that doesn’t require the Bomb Kit or Grenade Kit to be effective.

Again, why is this an issue? It still does substantially less damage than glassier condition builds, so what’s the big deal? If they nerf the hammer and make it hit like a wet noodle, people will just go back to running pistol/pistol HGH, which only has fractionally worse survivability while dishing out A TON more damage. Non-scrapper builds are not only completely viable, people have solo-queued to legendary with them—both this season and last.

You are just demanding nerfs on a weapon that literally exists for the sole purpose to provide the avenue you say is what makes it “directly op.” After three years of BS we’re finally freed from the Grenade Kit and you want to go crawling back to it six months later.

If anything needs to be done to the hammer, Rocket Charge should have only 1-2 leap finishers and not 3. Everything else about it is completely fine, and nerfing it would simply push us back to running non-scrapper builds we’ve spent the past three years playing.

Boring.

insanemaniac.2456:

but i would argue that blast is as useful as slick shoes. its just a different playstyle. it lets you get decaps, so you gotta play like a nodefighter or duelist rather than a teamfighter, which is what slick shoes is better for. take marauder instead of paladin and take sneak instead of X too, so you can do your split fighting better.

im just gonna ignore all your poo-pooing about final salvo vs adaptive armor, because i was the same way until i gave final salvo a chance.

I did give Final Salvo a chance. I even tried the advertised build on Meta Battle since I thought we got something new to warrant the changes, but it felt objectively weaker to me than running Slick Shoes with Mortar Kit.

I’ve never liked Stealth Gyro. It’s great in PvE for safely hitting Noxious Pods. It’s also pretty awesome for hiding some of your numbers in WvW. But I don’t think it’s a particularly great choice in PvP unless you have a dedicated role on an organized team and are communicating with your teammates to properly set up ambushes. I think Elixir X and Mortar Kit are far stronger elite skills for enhancing your damage and survivability, and I think Stealth Gyro is one of those things people saw engineers doing in EU tournaments and mindlessly thought it’s a better option stripped of all context.

I went up to Diamond in less than a week with a build I ran almost identical to last season with Sigil of Air/Fire with AA+SS. And I found that any changes from that only hurt my 1v1 and team fighting potential—especially when I tried rolling with Bulwark. I’ll gladly take your suggestions when my win rate in-season isn’t >80%, though.

Phineas Poe.3018:

insanemaniac.2456:

hammer is directly op. high damage skills paired with defensive side effects. short enough cds to not need more than 1 kit to have enough to do without resorting to autos.

Translation: It’s a standalone weapon that doesn’t require the Bomb Kit or Grenade Kit to be effective.

Again, why is this an issue? It still does substantially less damage than glassier condition builds, so what’s the big deal? If they nerf the hammer and make it hit like a wet noodle, people will just go back to running pistol/pistol HGH, which only has fractionally worse survivability while dishing out A TON more damage. Non-scrapper builds are not only completely viable, people have solo-queued to legendary with them—both this season and last.

You are just demanding nerfs on a weapon that literally exists for the sole purpose to provide the avenue you say is what makes it “directly op.” After three years of BS we’re finally freed from the Grenade Kit and you want to go crawling back to it six months later.

If anything needs to be done to the hammer, Rocket Charge should have only 1-2 leap finishers and not 3. Everything else about it is completely fine, and nerfing it would simply push us back to running non-scrapper builds we’ve spent the past three years playing.

Boring.

insanemaniac.2456:

but i would argue that blast is as useful as slick shoes. its just a different playstyle. it lets you get decaps, so you gotta play like a nodefighter or duelist rather than a teamfighter, which is what slick shoes is better for. take marauder instead of paladin and take sneak instead of X too, so you can do your split fighting better.

im just gonna ignore all your poo-pooing about final salvo vs adaptive armor, because i was the same way until i gave final salvo a chance.

I did give Final Salvo a chance. I even tried the advertised build on Meta Battle since I thought we got something new to warrant the changes, but it felt objectively weaker to me than running Slick Shoes with Mortar Kit.

I’ve never liked Stealth Gyro. It’s great in PvE for safely hitting Noxious Pods. It’s also pretty awesome for hiding some of your numbers in WvW. But I don’t think it’s a particularly great choice in PvP unless you have a dedicated role on an organized team and are communicating with your teammates to properly set up ambushes. I think Elixir X and Mortar Kit are far stronger elite skills for enhancing your damage and survivability, and I think Stealth Gyro is one of those things people saw engineers doing in EU tournaments and mindlessly thought it’s a better option stripped of all context.

I went up to Diamond in less than a week with a build I ran almost identical to last season with Sigil of Air/Fire with AA+SS. And I found that any changes from that only hurt my 1v1 and team fighting potential—especially when I tried rolling with Bulwark. I’ll gladly take your suggestions when my win rate in-season isn’t >80%, though.

let me be clear. im not saying hammer does too much damage. hammer does too much. not too much damage, simply too much. the nonauto skill damage is fine. its on par with other nonautoing skills that engi has, like jump shot, blunderbuss, nades 2/4/5, ft 2/4, etc. it does bad damage when you build tanky, and it does good damage when you go glassy. that is perfect and expected.

what you should not expect is to survive only marginally worse than a tanky build when going glassy.

that is what is op, and hammer directly enables it by pairing strong defensive effects with high scaling damage. there is no opportunity cost, there is no challenge, there is no choice. if you look at other skills that offer both defense and high offense from the core game, notably guard focus 5, mesmer f4, and war gs3, they come with really high opportunity cost — focus can fizzle, f4 shatter requires traiting, gs3 needs a wall. hammer needs none of this. it offers cc, gap closers, damage, and potent baked in defense.

but scrapper overall doesnt offer higher dps than anything else, so that isnt the issue. without hammers excessively and unsituational short cooldowns that do multiple things, people would not choose scrapper over a tools/inventions/alchemy engi, because that engi needs the defense offered by 13 sec gear shield, which is provided by hammer just through attacking and using skills normally in a situation where you wanna do damage.

quite frankly, making it to diamond is not a huge feat. what you need to carry a low mmr game is situational awareness, or good decision making, or a good build, but certainly not all 3. plus, if you previously had not trash mmr, this matchmaking algorithm strongly favored giving you long win streaks that also slightly reinforced your not trash mmr, and if you werent playing at the start when all the good people were still in amber then you basically had 0 competition while rising through divisions, because it paired you with the people who least deserved the lose the grind race.

i made it to legend using final salvo, blast, sneak, and B instead of AA, slicky, X/mortar, and bulwark for the half of my play time that was on engi. and i like strength sigil better than fire. the other half of my play time was on reaper with a dash of druid. i dont recall my win rate, because win rate is a poor indicator of skill and mmr (which are definitely different things this season due to the ~4% of players whos mmr the system trashed/overinflated). so yes, you prolly should have 80%+ win rate in the lower divisions… because all the good players ground past it a month before, or you were favorably paired with those good players, or perhaps you just never queued into them. if you are skilled. (not saying you arent). when did you queue up to diamond? at the beginning? in the middle? near the end? if it wasnt the beginning, it really doesnt matter.